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Upsetting the applecart #1 - carbon neutral biofuel
L90OOK:
--- Quote from: "Wireless" ---The reduction in CO2 emissions between petrol and LPG is one based on energy released and combustion efficiency, the burning of LPG releasing, to move the same vehicle, overall, 10 to 15% less CO2.
--- End quote ---
But isn't fuel economy, whilst running on LPG, 10-15% worse than on petrol...therefore overall CO2 emissions for that vehicle are the same whether running Petrol or LPG? :-s :-k
datalas:
I think one of the main "benefits" that people try to point out about LPG is that it's one of the gasses that tends to get burnt off during distillation so collecting it and using it in a car is considered a bonus.
Now, that's pretty open to debate, but I think you'll find that most of these things are. No vehicle or method of transport is actually the answer, nor is any particular type of fuel.
This is what annoys me most about the entire debate, people are looking for quick and easy answers but there aren't any. Lifestyles will have to be altered, people will have to be encouraged to recycle more and waste less.
The trouble is that you end up with human nature declaring that "they" (the individual) isn't the problem and that someone else is.
We all have our parts to play, and using "green" fuels helps, but so does keeping your car in good working order, leaving earlier to avoid traffic, turning lights off, not gluing bits of paper to people's windscreens etc...
CaptainColourful:
--- Quote from: "L90OOK" ---
--- Quote from: "Wireless" ---The reduction in CO2 emissions between petrol and LPG is one based on energy released and combustion efficiency, the burning of LPG releasing, to move the same vehicle, overall, 10 to 15% less CO2.
--- End quote ---
But isn't fuel economy, whilst running on LPG, 10-15% worse than on petrol...therefore overall CO2 emissions for that vehicle are the same whether running Petrol or LPG? :-s :-k
--- End quote ---
Yes LPG is slightly down on petrol mpg, but does burn cleaner.
MPG around town is about 14-16 (rush hour traffic) and on a nice run is about 24-26... thats US gal, so add 10% for imperial .
So it all adds up to about the same on my reckoning. ... and yes its costing me a lot less on LPG than petrol, so I am one happy bunny
Using Bio-diesel is a step in the right direction, but I still think that it's too pricey for the average motorist to risk trying in his precious car in order to save just 5p a litre.... The real answer is to change the habits of a lifetime.
If these bio companies really think that they have my sympathy about costs etc, all I can say is they must think a lot more than I do about saving the planet... nobody starts a company that is doomed to be a loss maker.
They would be better off starting a fleet of minibuses and offering cheap rides !
Biodiesel-Bev:
[quote="CaptainColourful]
Using Bio-diesel is a step in the right direction, but I still think that it's too pricey for the average motorist to risk trying in his precious car in order to save just 5p a litre.... The real answer is to change the habits of a lifetime.
If these bio companies really think that they have my sympathy about costs etc, all I can say is they must think a lot more than I do about saving the planet... nobody starts a company that is doomed to be a loss maker.
They would be better off starting a fleet of minibuses and offering cheap rides ![/quote]
Some of the biodiesel producers do it on a non-profit bases, so yes, maybe they do care more about the planet than you. :-s
Using your example of a 5ppl saving, in a 50 litre tank that's a £2.50 saving, it may not seem that much but think about how much people complain when dino-diesel goes up a penny at the pumps! And £2.50 per fill up soon adds up over the year. If the saving is 10ppl (£5 per tank saving) or 15ppl etc.... well I'll let you do the maths. If folk would rather pay 95ppl+ for dino-diesel, then fine, but many prefer to make a saving. :wink:
As for people like me 'pushing' biodiesel' for my own benefit, that only applies if someone buys it from me, and most forum members, i would guess, don't live near me for me to benefit from their custom. As many 4x4 are 'gas-guzzlers' surely people would like to know about a cheaper/greener alternative to dino-diesel. You, as an LPG user, must be bothered about the pennies to have gone to the trouble and cost of having your vehicle converted to run on LPG. :-k :wink:
Wireless:
OK, I've found on this site references to mass of CO2 produced by burning gasoline (petrol), and converted the US Gallons to Imperial Gallons.
http://www.epa.gov/otaq/climate/420f05004.htm#step1
The figure for Petrol is 10.53 kg CO2 per gallon
I've also used the URL previously posted for the mass of CO2 produced by burning LPG, and converted this figure to Imperial Gallons.
http://www.epa.gov/ttn/chief/ap42/ch01/final/c01s05.pdf
The figure for LPG is 6.82 kg CO2 per gallon
I get 18 mpg on petrol and 17 mpg on LPG.
So per mile I push out 585g of CO2 on petrol, and 401g of CO2 on LPG.
So, based on US EPA figures for CO2 production, and my own fuel consumption figures, I push out over 31% less CO2 into the atmosphere by running on LPG. I'll have to compare this figure to other cars.
I'm sure someone will be running a 300 TDi Disco and will trawl the net for figures to find out their own CO2 grammes per mile whilst running on diesel, but I'm afraid I can't be bothered to do it.
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