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Upsetting the applecart #1 - carbon neutral biofuel

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thermidorthelobster:
I've seen a couple of people comment that they're happy to be carbon-neutral because they use biofuel.  It's a nice idea;  all the carbon dioxide that you burn when you use the fuel is locked away again when you grow the next generation of plants for the fuel.

However, it's also a fallacy.  Firstly, biofuel crops are produced using intensive farming methods and agricultural-scale use of fertilisers.  The tractors that are trolling up and down the fields are burning mostly diesel;  and the fertilisers are produced using highly energy-intensive production lines which rely on grid-generated electricity, which in turn comes mainly from coal-fired and oil-fired power stations in this country.

You also have to put plenty of energy into transporting and refining the fuel.  (For example, soya oil requires 3-4 times as much energy to produce as you actually get out of the fuel.)

The concensus (not that there is much of one) seems to be that biofuels, on balance, generate about 90% of the greenhouse gas loading of fossil fuels - not 0%.  (New Scientist recently had a good article on this but their website's down today - I'll post it when the site comes back up.)

In the global picture there's also the issue that the majority of biofuel crops in South America, for example, rely on bulldozing rainforest to clear the agricultural land, which releases a huge amount of CO2.  Not so relevant if you're buying vegetable oil from Sainsbury's, but it's a major factor if you look at worldwide use of biofuels.

I'm not knocking biofuels and I can see there's a real future in them.  I'm also glad to see so many people here and elsewhere trying them out.  But it's worth bearing in mind that they are not carbon-neutral.

Terranosaurus:
This is all very true but conversely how much CO2 is produced getting fossil fuels from under ground to the pumps, my bet would be that gallon for gallon fossil fuels would produce more CO2 in their production that bio-fuels do, so whilst bio-fuels might not be carbon neutral they are at least carbon reducing - as always theres 2 ways of looking at any point.

thermidorthelobster:
I totally agree with you.  My point was that there's a difference between carbon-neutral and carbon-reducing, like there's a difference between being a virgin and nearly-a-virgin.

mark.yellow.series.3:
i would be impossible to have a carbon neutral car, because has to be produced in the first place. and factories use a massive amount of elecricty, and a massive amount of chemical processes and refining fossel fuels to make the plastic parts. so you will infact have a huge carbon foot print before youve even filled the tank.

i will say however, that the humble primative series LR have a small carbon foot print, due to the primative way in which they were built, and note the lack of plastic in a series LR compared to the defender/disco of today.

another carbon plus point for the series, is the avarage car has a life span of 8-10 years, so my series is over 30 years old, if i had 'a normal car', i would have bought 3 of them to my one series LR. this is a massive carbon saving in the fact that the car plant has had to make 3 less cars.

thought for the day, if every body drove series LR's, the world would be a greener place :wink:

Eeyore:

--- Quote from: "mark.yellow.series.3" ---i would be impossible to have a carbon neutral car, because has to be produced in the first place. and factories use a massive amount of elecricty, and a massive amount of chemical processes and refining fossel fuels to make the plastic parts. so you will infact have a huge carbon foot print before youve even filled the tank.

--- End quote ---


Well spotted, Mark.

As a tongue in cheek remark, my stock answer to the green arguement is that my diesel comes from animals that roamed the world and absorbed CO2, therefore, diesel is carbon neutral and all we're arguing about is the time frame!  :lol:

Not one to be tried in serious debate, I feel!

Cheers
 8)
Eeyore

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