Chat & Social > The Bar - General Chat
A crushing blow
att:
--- Quote from: "Terminus" ---
--- Quote ---A generation that compares the nazi invasion of Poland to the crushing of a motorbike used illegally - is a trifle over reactive
Terminus
--- End quote ---
--- End quote ---
It is not over reaction, it is merely being aware and when you have so many new laws in the last 9 years of this Govt. it kinda makes you think a little deeper, study events past and where they led to.
You cannot turn a blind eye or blame it on the failing of others to adhere to laws already in force, the blame is squarely laid at the door of corrupt and very greedy members of the Govt. and not just MP`s, but all their advisors and the cronies that stand to make lot`s of money from the PUBLIC PURSE.
Social Policy in this country has sucked for years and can only worsen over the next decades, they see it, so do we.
rangerider:
Politically I am caught in the middle. I am well aware of the intricacies of many recent laws from an unusual perspective.
I am sure I read somewhere that the current Govt. had brought in more new laws than any other by some considerable margin. I am also aware that many of these laws are at best silly and impracticable, and at worse un-enforcable.
The current incumbents seem all to happy to draw up a kneejerk law in reaction to any focus or pressure group that comes knocking at the door. A prime example (one that affects us as motorists & CB users) is that of using a mobile phone whilst driving. Personally (and I know of several traffic cops that agree) it was my understanding there were already several offences that a driver could be charged with where using a mobile phone (cb/whatever) had the potential to create a problem. The new law only makes it an offence at any time, previously there were charges such as drving without due care, and failing to maintain proper control. both of which apply to CB users too where the new law seems by all accounts to exempt such things. Even in the late 80's Essex traffic cars had a hands free system for the radios for these legal & safety reasons.
Many new laws have been written so vaguely with such blanket coverage our courts will be forever trying to unentangle them. Take gloryfying terrorism, best head to Leeds and tear down that nice new statue of Mandela then!
The legislation that this post originally reffered too as Terminus quite rightly says contains an awful lot of sections that at first glance (and even 2nd & 3rd) contain nothing to do with serious & organised crime. (defining serious crime is for another day :) - if I'm the victim its serious!).
Its a simple ploy used throughout the ages, no different from revealing bad news when the media are concentrating on a bigger issue, after all what MP is going to vote against anything that purports to be against serious crime/terrorism/peadophilia/insert nasty thing here. So the writers just slip in little bits here and there, perhaps at the very last minute. I doubt many MPs read the laws they vote for, and I suspect that any that do lack the ability to effectively understand what they have read.
In short, I regularly deal with some apects of human rights, civil liberties, serious crime & terrorism legislation and am well aware that many "basic rights" have been removed by stealth, with the few remaining to follow. Unfortunately the magna carta was never really enshrined in law the way the US constitution was, and even that has been eroded in recent years.
There are legal and simple ways to bring the castle crashing down by using purely legal methods :)
Having stood many times on both sides of this argument I could go on for hours (Yes I can see you yawning in the back there) - but this was supposed to be about off-roading.
So to the original point, as it was quoted to me (and Im way too lazy to look it up), before seizing the bike for crushing, the offender must be warned to cease & desist, and it is only when the offence continues, or it is believed that the offence may continue/be repeated then the vehicle may be seized.
In the original news story we hear only one side of the argument. Nowhere do we hear how often has this happened, did the youth give the attending police some attitude? had he been asked politely to leave by others? had he already been officialy warned by an officer about his actions & the possible consequences?
Personally I doubt very much that the incident quoted was a "one-off", but simply the end of a long-lived saga.
Karen696:
Just to stick my two-pennorth in.
I think it appears VERY harsh on the information given, but as it has been stated we only heard one side of the story.
However I do wonder what the reaction on this site would be if it was some poor chap who had accidentally strayed off a BOAT, onto a bridleway and was faced with having his Land Rover/Suzuki/Mitsubishi/whatever 4x4 crushed without appeal?
But there again 'its all right 'cos its a motorcycle' is the attitude too many seem to be promoting.
Terminus:
--- Quote from: "Karen696" ---Just to stick my two-pennorth in.
I think it appears VERY harsh on the information given, but as it has been stated we only heard one side of the story.
However I do wonder what the reaction on this site would be if it was some poor chap who had accidentally strayed off a BOAT, onto a bridleway and was faced with having his Land Rover/Suzuki/Mitsubishi/whatever 4x4 crushed without appeal?
But there again 'its all right 'cos its a motorcycle' is the attitude too many seem to be promoting.
--- End quote ---
The issue here isn't really that he strayed off the road that alone would be unlikely to result in crushing - it was a trials bike not suitable for the road, therefore uninsured, untaxed etc - the owner would be clearly aware of the limitations of use of such a vehicle (as with mini moto's), especially as he only uses it on a track himself and should not have loaned it to a young lad to go off and play on where he pleased. Things don't just get crushed because you leave the beaten path. That is where the point is blurring - you wouldn't be driving your 4x4 (well i rather hope not) anywhere uninsured untaxed or mot'd or (again I would like to hope) lend it in such an undocumented state to a 17 yr old to drive around.
Had the young lad taken it where he was caught without consent he would be charged with theft and the bike would not have been crushed but as it was the owner has assumed responsibility by saying yes he gave it to the lad and so - squish :shock:
People have a certain amount of personal responsibility for the result of their actions - Ignorance of the law (as any sheriff or judge in the land will be the very first to tell you) is not an excuse.
I don't like using the ignorance of the law is not an excuse line because it sounds harsh but it has to be - or where would you stop "oh sorry I was curious as to what would happen - didn't realise that if I pressed the stop button on that mans life support machine it was murder" (a melodramatic example but used simply to illustrate the meaning of my point)
It's an emotive issue and any issue that involves the law, peoples understanding of the law and how it impacts them and those around them always will be - but Police do not as hinted at in earlier comments just "stick one on you" because they have a bad day - even the Police have to prove their actions were just if an appeal or complaint comes in and paying the mortgage and enjoying life is way more important than just "getting someone" on a bad day.
It'll be one of those never ending debates - there will be give and take but little resolution. I still hold that the fascist and nazi comparison bit is way over the top and that "in my eyes" to use it in comparison to the debate here rather belittles true attrocities and events that have occured in the past.
"look a badger with a gun" *points to the corner* and runs off out of the forum door whilst everyone is looking round :lol:
att:
To use the Nazi references etc. in no way belittles the suffering that many endured, it is merely being used as reference to what may happen if these things go unchecked.......It is, as I have stated previously an awareness of the current state of affairs, if you have failed to learn from history, no matter what the scale may be, you have failed.
Now, about the forcing of democracy on Muslims........ :wink:
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