Oops! What was that?

[SteveGoodz]

On the M5 coming home from a great day out on the West Somerset Railway on Sunday the Discovery did a bit of a lurch to the left, which I managed to correct. Fortunately I was just about to pull into the services so I gingerly carried on into the car park. It really didn't feel right and there was a weird noise coming from the near side front. When I got out of the car there was a smell of burned oil and I could move the N/S/F wheel about 5mm when I pulled on the top  :oops:

Wheel bearing? Yep. Took it apart today and it is goosed (that's a technical term similar to forked and burgered). The inner bearing has welded itself to itself and then broken up big style and the outer one isn't much better. Haven't looked at the off-side yet but am expecting a similar sight when I do.

Credit to Island4x4, they had dispatched my order within about 2 hours of me placing it. Unfortunately, they were too efficient as the parts had been dispatched before I realised I'd forgotten to order the grease seals. Hey Ho  :doh:

Here are some images of the damage:

[Saffy]

eww bet that stank. Is the stub axle still okay? Have seen a couple of stubs that have been nuked after bearing cooked.

[SteveGoodz]

eww bet that stank. Is the stub axle still okay? Have seen a couple of stubs that have been nuked after bearing cooked.

Yeah, it still smelled today when I was taking it apart  :D

The stub looks okay but I won't know for sure until I get the inner race from the inner bearing off - waiting for a neighbour to get home from work to borrow his puller.

[john656]

Mine didnt go quite that well..... took it apart and i couldnt turn the races  :D

[POTASH]

yes its the same as mine lurched to the side on the m6, but i ended up putting another stub axle on

[Range Rover Blues]

Genbrally if they seize up the inner race spins on the stub and damages it, if the inner race doesn't slide straight off then chances are the stub is ruined, the new bearing should be a loose running fit all the way up to the shoulder which you should clearly be able to feel as you slide it on.

If the metal has got that hot I'd want to change it anyway!

You don't need a puller, cold chisel will usually do it, especially on cheap foreign bearings, just wear eye protection ;)

[stretchy]

how did you get home ??

[Lincs niva]

Looks very simliar to what happend on my niva :D

Cheers Gav

[doda456]

Nice!  Last time i did that I also snapped the cv joint.  The whole vehicle jumped a foot in the air and made an almighty bang.


 

[SteveGoodz]

how did you get home ??

Flat bed taxi  :P

[SteveGoodz]

Well, as some of you suggested it's going to need a new stub axle - I can't get the inner race of the inner bearing off. I've tried heat, sprocket puller, stilsons and the dreaded cold chisel ... bloody thing hasn't budged a millimetre 

Having hacked large chunks of the race off with the chisel it's obviously welded itself to the axle. I'll put some pictures on here once the axle is off .. it ain't pretty  :-o

Typical that this would happen over the Easter period when no-one is open, now I won't get the parts until probably Thursday  :'( I have played safe this time and ordered just about everything I can think of that might be worn/knackered once I get the stub axle off.

Bl**dy Land Rovers!! 

[Range Rover Blues]

Whilst you're at it then, strip the other 3 hubs and grease the hell out of them.  Personally I put new bearings in with new disks for how little they cost.

[SteveGoodz]

Whilst you're at it then, strip the other 3 hubs and grease the hell out of them.  Personally I put new bearings in with new disks for how little they cost.

Spent today replacing the bearings on the other front hub and re-greasing the rears. Surprisingly the rears looked like new so maybe they've been done before. The o/s/f looked like it wouldn't have lasted too much longer.

TBH, I'm dreading taking the stub axle off. I have a horrible feeling I'm not gonna like what I find inside  [-o<

New discs and pads will get fitted when I have some time off work in a couple of weeks. Hopefully that'll be it for the rest of the year  :-#

[SteveGoodz]

Well the job is finally finished  :D

I was pretty relieved to find nothing amis in the swivel housing, today has really been putting it all back together.

Here's a shot of the old stub axle with the inner bearing race which has effectively welded itself to the stub.

[nismo2004]

that looks ok to me dude, lol, duno why you need a new one  he he

i was reading your post the other day. then 2 days later similer thing happend to me on the m25. suddenly pulled to the left as if the brake jammed on the let go, i pulled over and looked underside and didnt find anything then carried on. was only sunday i thought oh, lets try the wheels for play, yup nice movement in the wheels both sides, passenger side the worse. (side that gabbed).
ive orderd the bearing kits to do both fronts, was hoping to have them saturday so i would have the weekend to fit them. but they havent arrived yet. so looks like a job for next weekend. not worked on a disco before so should be interesting. tho froam what i have read up they seem pretty easy to do providing they havent welded themsleves to the stub axle.

[SteveGoodz]

Nismo,

It's a real easy job provided you can get the inner races off the stub axle.

Don't forget to replace the inner hub seals - even if they don't look like they need it  :D

[Lucy1978]

A neat trick for shifting stubborn stuck things like that is a rotastop breaker drill with a cheap chisel bit in it. They put a hell of a lot more energy into it than you could hope to with a hammer and cold chisel and will generally shift something like that in seconds as Tim M will testify to after his disco wheel bearing went bang and did somethign similar.

[Range Rover Blues]

I was told that electric arc welding would make the bearing race brittle, making it easier to shatter.

[nismo2004]

i have orderd a set of tenken bearings that suposed to coma as a set with new locking washers and seals, so im quessing thats the seals that you pop back into the brake disc.               
or is there another oil seal that needs replacing.  :(

[SteveGoodz]

If you're just changing the bearings and don't plan to open up the swivel housing then there is just one seal. It's likely that if you've bought the bits as a kit then it'll have the standard Discovery ones.

Before getting the bits for mine I saw lots of recommendations to use Range Rover Classic seals instead. The Discovery ones are designed to keep grease in whereas the RR ones are double ended and are also designed to keep muck out.

Have fun  :lol:

[nismo2004]

thanks guys, i have the kits now so will be out under the car saturday morning.

just a quck question, can i just undo the caliper bolts and move out the way or do i need to disconnect the brake hose. as knowing my luck it would snap off lol 

[Saffy]

thanks guys, i have the kits now so will be out under the car saturday morning.

just a quck question, can i just undo the caliper bolts and move out the way or do i need to disconnect the brake hose. as knowing my luck it would snap off lol  

yes you can move it but strap it up/cable tie it to take the weight so it doesn't stress brake pipe. But check all is well with pipes and hose while your at it anyway - if it weak enough to break from being removed then I consider it a bonus because it sign its over due replacement anyway.......better that it ruptured in your hand than on the road.

[stretchy]

just out of curiousity is this due to under filed diffs?? .. hear me out.. I know it sounds funny but I have had this before on my rear axle and when striped down was dry as a bone and iner race would not budge of the stub. hamerd for hours with cold chisle... but then had a failed bearing on the other side some time later and after a dif oil change but luckly becase of the free play EP90 / diff oil was able to leak past the seal into the bearing keeping it lose and in tact..
is it worth just chuking a bit more oil into the diff ??
just a thort  :-k

[Range Rover Blues]

Not sure about that, bearings run in grease (on cars and at this speed they do) and the CV joint sits in oil/one shot grease, the diff in oil.  If the diff blew all it's oil out through a hub it would wash the grease away but the oil would still lubricate for ages, until it dried up in fact.  the diff uses very similar bearings sat in oil with no problems at all.

I'd be more tempted to suspect it's got water in that has washed out the grease and left it dry, but you can tell much better with the hub sat in front of you than looking at ap icture on 't'net.

[Saffy]

I think there is more than one person out there that replace bearings dry straight from packet with only their storage lube

[SteveGoodz]

I'd be more tempted to suspect it's got water in that has washed out the grease and left it dry, but you can tell much better with the hub sat in front of you than looking at ap icture on 't'net.

I think RRB is probably right. The "lubricant" that failed to keep my bearings going looked more like used engine oil than grease.

[stretchy]

RRB this is what I was saying that becase the diff oil was able to leak into the hub it just gives that bit of extra life to the bearing rather than drying up and welding to the stub. thus . is this hapening becase of under filed diffs ??

[Range Rover Blues]

Ahh, I think I get you now, if you keep replacing the diff oil that leaks out,it will keep leaking onto the bearings and keep them oiled?

Well as long as the bearing is wet with something to keep down what little friction exists (and keep the surface cool) then yes, I guess they "should" be ok.

The ones I change are either rusty (makes a droning sound) or the grease is drying up, but TBH I put new bearings in when I do the brake sisks, at the very least I clean them out and fill with new grease.

[nismo2004]

well had lots of fun with wheel bearings today,
i done the drivers side 1st and all went very well. nice new bearings and seals.

then came the passneger side, lots of movement so i suspected it was going to cause me some trouble, i undone and removed the hub cover and all the outer bearing had fallen apart. the 2 large nuts was loose and had no thread left on them due to them being batterd about by the bearing rollers rattling around.
managed to get the hub off and found the remainder of the outer bearing and an intact inner still stuck on the stub axle.
both came off with a little work from the puller.

so after closer inspection i have found that the inner part of the thread on the stub axle is now no longer there and also some nice deep marks on the stub axle surface,

so i wont be getting my disco on the road this weekend now as i have to sorce a new stub axle, gasket / 2 new nuts / thrust washer /

what i need to know is its fitted with 24 spline axles, so would a stub axle from a 10 spline fit or are they different.
also from what i can make out theres a needle bearing inside the stub axle with a seal, going from the workshop manual,

do these come fitted to a new stub axle or would i need to buy and fit to the new one.

[SteveGoodz]

what i need to know is its fitted with 24 spline axles, so would a stub axle from a 10 spline fit or are they different.

There only appears to be one part number in the catalogue, so I'm guessing they're the same.

also from what i can make out theres a needle bearing inside the stub axle with a seal, going from the workshop manual, do these come fitted to a new stub axle or would i need to buy and fit to the new one.

I had to order mine separately. There is also a brass bush on the inside of the stub axle which can be a bit of a pig to get off. It might be worth buying a new one of these too. If you go with re-using the old one then make sure you smoothe off any marks you make when removing it from the old stub. It might be quite awkward to start this bush moving to remove it but once you've broken the stiction between it and the axle then it'll prise off easy enough.

If you've removed the stub axle I would also consider replacing the mud shield (metal ring that came off when you undid the 6 bolts holding the stub onto the swivel housing) as that is what the seal in the hub works against to keep muck out of the hub bearing.

Have fun  :D