Somethings wrong, 200TDi PLEASE

[zulublue]

I started my D90 200TDi up the other day it started straight away but I got a lot of black and White smoke coming out of the exhaust, I left it ticking over for about 30 seconds then gradually revved it up, the engine seemed slow to respond, I decided to give it a gentle run out. after about a minute the smoke decreased loads but the throttle responce was still slower than normal, I thought it was just the cold and carried on driving, gradually it got better but not 100% when I returned home the sound of the coming from the exhaust did not sound normal, I thought something was knocking, I lifted the bonnet and the engine was vibrating more that it should, I had no time to do anything so left it.
The feeling I got reminded me of when I hydrolocked the engine, so I removed the air filter in case it was blocked and checked oil trap to see if it was clear, I have a bit of oil in the end of the pipe from the trap but it also have a very tiny bit of water and the oil on the wall of the pipe had gone grey, I remove the air filter which had about 2 teaspoons of water in the top section, nothing below from the snorkel to the filter, I checked my water level but I had lost nothing.

Baffled by this I took it to a friend who said he thought it was the injectors, he said if I run the engine then loosen the injector pipe if the engine alters then that injector is fine, if nothing happens it shows that the injector is not working, pretty simple I thought.

So I started it up and slightly undone the 1st injector nearest the front of the truck (sorry don't know if they have a number associated) the engine started to stall, I tightened it back up and moved on to the second one back, same again from the engine, but not quite as bad, I moved on to the third injector released it and nothing happened the engine stayed the same, I closed it and moved to the last one nearest the bulkhead and very little change but more than the previous one, I closed this up and retested #3 and nothing again.

Can someone confirm that my findings are correct, is it normal to get a little water in the top of the air filter box in cold weather? I do have a set of spare injectors off my original defender engine which I changed  (Block only) for a disco unit about a year ago, are the disco 200 and Defender 200 injectors the same?

[JIMBOBLY]

just a shot in the dark mate,but it sounds like either the cambelt could of slipped a tooth,or one of the tappet adjusters may of come loose,which can happen if the gap isnt set right,as ive have had it happen to me,and maybe a pushrod has jumped out,but with the smoke i'd say its the first, :-k

[L90OOK]

Are the injector pipes tight at the pump end too?
Could be the fuel filter need changing  :-k
Have you been running veg oil in it?

[zulublue]

just a shot in the dark mate,but it sounds like either the cambelt could of slipped a tooth,or one of the tappet adjusters may of come loose,which can happen if the gap isnt set right,as ive have had it happen to me,and maybe a pushrod has jumped out,but with the smoke i'd say its the first, :-k

Good point about the cambelt slipping, the belt is about 12 months old and had a new tensioner at the same time, but I am swinging towards the injector at the moment.

I will check the pipes at the pump end but I think they are OK, the fuel filter is 12 months old fitted it with the engine I put in and has done 1K in the last year, and I have never used veggie oil.

[craig_midz]

i had this on mine an it was the injector pump not the injector just an idea swap the 3rd injector for say the first one an do the same test as b4 if u get same results id be lookin towards the injector pump cuz if cambelt had slipped a tooth surely it would be a pain to start or smoke loads an not go

[zulublue]

Good Idea Craig I will give it a go the weekend, I have an injector pump off a Disco I wonder if they are the same?

[craig_midz]

yes mate there the same

[zulublue]

Hi all, yes me again here is today's question / findings.

I managed to get some time to go and swap the injectors round, before I did I ran the engine again to see if anything had changed, the loosening of injector 3 still made no difference but loosening injector 4 did, as well as 1 & 2, so I removed injector 1 and 3 and swapped them around, I also changed the spill rail pipe as this was old and brittle, I starter her up again and redid the test it was exactly the same, I went through a sequence of undoing all the tops of the injectors one by one and only number 3 made no difference to the running of the engine apart from when I released it the smoke / steam died down, when i tightened it back up it started again, repeating this on the other injectors made no difference. (today the engine did seem to respond more and was not as lumpy).

I decided to go for a little run only a couple of miles, the smoke does die down when this is done as stated before, I could hear a knocking noise coming from the engine especially under load, I slowed down put it in to 4th and hit the gas the noise got louder, when I got back I tried it on the drive and went to move off in 3rd, the same again.

So now im back a step, and still wondering what is wrong I think a compression check will have to be done.

Does what I have said above reconfirm or change anyones thoughts

Mark - frustrated :(

[Saffy]

Have you checked the tappets / valve clearance?

[trickydicky]

i am having a simular problem with mine i thought it was the injectors, glow plugs, injection pump,head gasket. then when i removed the head i found 2 cracked pistons. i havent changed them yet but the smoke and judering under load are the same simptoms that i am having . hope this helps  rich

[Dave K]

Have you replaced the copper compression washers under the injectors?
If they are flattened, it can cause a tapping noise. :shock:

[extreme90]

he would have a perminant derv nock if the washer's were flattend
is this the same engine that got hydro'd ?

[Range Rover Blues]

If you have a spare injector and possibly pipe for it you can check the spray pattern and delevery without removing the fuel pump, just put the spare injector into a glass jar once it's conected to no.3 and run the engine.

I'd suspect the fault is inside the engine itself.

[davidlandy]

he would have a perminant derv nock if the washer's were flattend
is this the same engine that got hydro'd ?

hi m8,
interested in this - I reused some washers when i replaced my injectors and it was noiser afterwards - is this the cuase do you think?

[Range Rover Blues]

And if so does it matter which way up they go :-k

[zulublue]

Hi All,

Sorry for the delay in replying, I have been fitting the roll cage.

Dan, it is a Different block than the one I hydrolocked, although the turbo it the same, I have checked the movement on the turbo fan and it's about 0.3mm the turbo whistles up OK, the engine is defiantly getting worse but I have not had chance to get the head off yet, (think I'm putting it off as it's my first time) But I did notice something on Saturday, I drove it to where I was fitting the cage only about 3 mile, took it very steady, but when I got there and turned the engine off there was smoke coming out of the exhaust for about 3 minutes after switch off, it looked like someone had put a fag in the end, would this point to the head gasket and cross contamination when the exhaust manifold should be closed but is open due to it getting in to another pot? weird really as she fires up at a flick even with no glowplug time.

[extreme90]

he would have a perminant derv nock if the washer's were flattend
is this the same engine that got hydro'd ?

hi m8,
interested in this - I reused some washers when i replaced my injectors and it was noiser afterwards - is this the cuase do you think?

dave do you get a slight weep surfacing up side of the injector, or does it look dampish ?
RRB, as far as im aware they aint sided, as the little sealing rib will seal on either mating face

zulu, i really would get a compression test done on it :-k
have you had the coolant co2 tested at all ? does it breath excessive aswel ?
where abouts exactly are you, i should have a free weekend next weekend, so if your still in the doo doo i can have a ride down with a few gadgets and have a squint with you  :-.
lemme no
dan
p.s do you have that 8274 still ?

[zulublue]

he would have a perminant derv nock if the washer's were flattend
is this the same engine that got hydro'd ?

hi m8,
interested in this - I reused some washers when i replaced my injectors and it was noiser afterwards - is this the cuase do you think?

This just created a gulp moment, when I moved the injectors around to test them I didn't notice any washers  :-> have I missed something here????

Dan, I have had no terst done yet, on that tomorrow if I can get it there!!!! Im in North Warwickshire / Birmingham J4 of M6, still go the 8274 drum but it is 3" not the 2" you were looking for.

[extreme90]

he would have a perminant derv nock if the washer's were flattend
is this the same engine that got hydro'd ?

hi m8,
interested in this - I reused some washers when i replaced my injectors and it was noiser afterwards - is this the cuase do you think?

This just created a gulp moment, when I moved the injectors around to test them I didn't notice any washers  :-> have I missed something here????

Dan, I have had no terst done yet, on that tomorrow if I can get it there!!!! Im in North Warwickshire / Birmingham J4 of M6, still go the 8274 drum but it is 3" not the 2" you were looking for.

hmm [!Expletive Deleted!]

as to the engine, they usually get stuck to either the head or injector.....but in the many injectors ive changed, i aint had one stick to the head yet , just whip them out and double check, its usually the most silliest of things that go wrong
dan

[nellyscossy]

Hi all, yes me again here is today's question / findings.

I managed to get some time to go and swap the injectors round, before I did I ran the engine again to see if anything had changed, the loosening of injector 3 still made no difference but loosening injector 4 did, as well as 1 & 2, so I removed injector 1 and 3 and swapped them around, I also changed the spill rail pipe as this was old and brittle, I starter her up again and redid the test it was exactly the same, I went through a sequence of undoing all the tops of the injectors one by one and only number 3 made no difference to the running of the engine apart from when I released it the smoke / steam died down, when i tightened it back up it started again, repeating this on the other injectors made no difference. (today the engine did seem to respond more and was not as lumpy).

I decided to go for a little run only a couple of miles, the smoke does die down when this is done as stated before, I could hear a knocking noise coming from the engine especially under load, I slowed down put it in to 4th and hit the gas the noise got louder, when I got back I tried it on the drive and went to move off in 3rd, the same again.

So now im back a step, and still wondering what is wrong I think a compression check will have to be done.

Does what I have said above reconfirm or change anyones thoughts

Mark - frustrated :(

loosening of the injector pipes dosent work like that because when you crack off one the pressure to all the others drops too so the engine note will change in any case

apart from compression testing the way i have found a missfire was to remove the exhaust manifold and fire up for a very short (and very loud) while....smoke comes from the faulty cylinder port

i used to use this method on the transit 2.5 di engines

i had a problem like this with my landyand i had water in the diesel

i had to drain the fuel system and re fill and bleed took ages to fire her up again but it cured the prob

[zulublue]

Well, I managed to get the head off today, and all looked OK (to me anyway) apart from what I thought was oil on the top of #3 piston (have since been told this could be unburnt diesel, I will check tomorrow) I have taken it to IB Engineering in Nuneaton, they did a pressure test on the valves and one of them was leaking, Mark at IB took the valve out and there was a piece missing from the underside of th valve where is seats on to the head, he checked the headgasket that was on there which he could tell had blown across but only a very little bit and it looked like on the block side, but nothing to be of major concern.

There is 2 tiny cracks running to a couple of the glowplugs, but as the engine uses no water he said it should be OK, he is going to skim the head a fraction so we know its flat and replace the valve.

I hope this is the end of my troubles, for now  :-#

[zulublue]

I am going to fit the head back on tomorrow, but wanted to check if this is correct for ajusting the tappets / rocker arms.

rotate crank until #2 valve is closed, then ajust valve #1 & #8
rotate crank until #3 valve is closed, then ajust #2 & #7

And so on

feeler gauge spacing is 0.20mm on all rocker arms? 200TDi

[trecfive]

The simple way to adjust the valves is to add up to nine. When valve number one is fully down adjust valve number eight and so on, they will not go down in numerical order.

[zulublue]

Well that was simple, Cheers.