RTV in Series 3 LWB (is it for me?)

[carbore]

Rhymes aside...

I am looking to do some RTV trials in my series 3 LWB (Cornwall area).  I see that they class vehicles, but will a S3 LWB get far enough down the course to be competitive and have a decent day out. I don't like the idea of getting stuck on the first hazard if the build/design the course for more modern vehicles with loads of articulation and diff locks etc.

Also will it get bashed anywhere serious suggesting that steering/tank guards  or even roll bar are recommended?. Cosmetics fine as its no show stopper.

I get very grumpy if my cars don't do well. (but appreciate I have a learning curve as all prior experience has been on the track)

PS are there any mods that really make a noticeable difference to an S3.

Cheers.

[Devon-Rover]

Errrrrr.

I'll speak for the ALRC side of things down here but in a LWB series 3 you will honestly struggle.
you would be playing cricket all day. Whilst there is a class system, Which you would be amalgamated with classes 5,8 and 11. There is also the fact that whilst the COC will endevour to lay the sections to be fair for all participants it has to be competitive for those who take part. And down here class 4 and 5 are the most predominant classes.
C&D is a very competitive club and the course's are laid out to a very high standard.

I would recommend coming along to watch and see for yourselves.

There is an event in cornwall in a few weeks time, Which a good friend of mine is the COC for.

[carbore]

As I suspected.....(blast)

The S3 costs peanuts to buy and run, so I think I may just keep my eyes open for a dedicated comp vehicle so have no tax/insurance issues.

Either that or sell the elise and buy a monster.

[carbore]

Ps

Is that the binner down one on the 28th Oct?

Do I need to do anything/mail anyone to come along and watch.

Thanks for the earlier info.

[Robbo]

I could be wrong but....RTV surely means any road taxed vehicle with little or no modifications????? so it should be ok, but obviously need a little more turning space ie shunt - which is allowed is it not for a wheelbase over 100 inches????

[datalas]

You should be OK with a 109" as has been pointed out you will get the additional benefit of a shunt to be taken at your discretion on each section anyhow.

It might not be easy for you, but then again that's part of the challenge.  Coupled with the fact that since LWB vehicles are reasonably rare the course will probably be laid out in such a way that it might be advantageous to have the extra couple of inches.  If the COC is devious enough he'll be trying to cross axle everyone and of course, you'll not get caught up in something designed to upset a 90 :)

[Thrasher]

I enjoyed trialling my 109" :)

[Bowie]

TBH, most of the fun is getting to the limits of your vehicles capabilities, and coming out the other end unscathed.

It reminds me of being a complete nutter in my youth in a 957cc Fiesta, I could drift it round corners on the throttle, gear changes absolutely perfect, left braking to the last minute etc, all through practice -was a LOT of fun. Driving an Audi Quattro a few years later.... was fun, but you couldn't really get to the limit on public roads, so it wasn't as MUCH fun as the fiesta :)

Same thing applies, just it's a helluva lot safer at LR speeds ;)

[muddyjames]

I do rtv trials in my disco and everyone else is in 90's or shortened rangies and my mate goes round in her 110. Me and her have a good competition going and we both also have tow bars / ploughs so have to look at alternative lines. Sometimes I just hub a cane but alot of the time i am amzed of what I can do and get clear rounds.

It is a great laugh and I would say give it a go. you wont know until you try.

btw the kids (11-16yr olds) whip my derryair. It is amazing to watch them go round.

[landroverkeith]

i must admit i think once ive got my v8 up and working im thinking trying a trial in it as the disco just keeps breaking anytime i even look at mud these days

[crazymac]

RTV Road Taxed Vehicle trial

designed to be not so taxing and in the main non damaging (you may damage but it will be driver error that would cause it)

CCV Cross country vehicle trial

these tend to be much more taxing, and there is more chance of damage as the sections tend to be tighter, and you use trees as objects to "rub" to make tighter turns.

I believe in both versions you have different classes, in west wales club trials we follow the MSA versions, so we have classes 1 to 5.

Class 1 & 2 (Class 1 = 70” to 87”. Class 2 = over 87”) these are standard non modded vehicles

Class 3 & 4 (Class 3 = 70” to 87”. Class 4 = over 87”)

these are a bit more modified

Class 5 Modified Vehicles, these are the works where almost anything goes.

As a club we run CCV trials but even at that the longer wheel base vehicles are catered for. all leaf sprung vehicles get a shunt (a chance to reverse back and reset yourself for the gate) and all vehicles 100inch or more get a shunt. this levels the field a bit.

Last season I trialed a SWB series 3 diesel in class 2 and beat all the others at the end of the year, there was only 1 other series vehicle and the rest were 90's and rangerovers.

I say go for it with the 109 and you'll have a great time challenging yourself and your vehicle

[carbore]

Thats sounding a bit more encouraging.....Im not expecting to win, but id like to get round it. I think need to make sure the gearbox is ok first and perhaps stop the doors falling off!

[Devon-Rover]

yes that is binner on the 28th.

Untill this afternoon i was going to be competing but it now looks like i might never do another RTV for years to come.  

I'll let you know if i am coming down and if your there i'll be able to meet up for a chat and let you know more about RTV's and the club.


Best regards

Rowan.

[onslow]

Errrrrr.

I'll speak for the ALRC side of things down here but in a LWB series 3 you will honestly struggle.
you would be playing cricket all day. Whilst there is a class system, Which you would be amalgamated with classes 5,8 and 11. There is also the fact that whilst the COC will endevour to lay the sections to be fair for all participants it has to be competitive for those who take part. And down here class 4 and 5 are the most predominant classes.
C&D is a very competitive club and the course's are laid out to a very high standard.

I would recommend coming along to watch and see for yourselves.

There is an event in cornwall in a few weeks time, Which a good friend of mine is the COC for.

I disagree from an ALRC point of view having a vehicle over 95" wheelbase is allowed 1 shunt per section this can give a big advantage
My disco came 1st an class and 3rd overall in a field dominated with 90s,you will not be at any major disadvantage with a 109 we have had a few 110s trial and have done pretty well

[Devon-Rover]

Yes but when you get COC's who will put on a section and they will set it out so that they will make you have your shunt in a particular place as a LWB vehicle will simply not make it around. (unless you handbrake it)

I've set sections up with the deliberate aim to trip up the LWB members (as they are flipping good) just the same as i can use uneven land to crossaxle a 90.

Come down the play with us!  8)  We are renown for putting on a hard but damm good trial.

[dave_2A_2.25Turbo]

but it now looks like i might never do another RTV for years to come.  


Rowan.

?????

[Devon-Rover]

I can't afford to keep repairing the landy and maintaining her. you wouldn't think that it is a very rare landy.

So i'm going to have to make her into a more everyday motor. and not RTV as it hammers the poor thing.

So it's goodbye RTV's for a bit, Though i might have to pick up a cheap 88 and use that instead. Though i will still be using her to set out bigger events like the Charity RTV and possible the 2010 ALRC national.

[dave_2A_2.25Turbo]

Ahhh.....the Searle bit.......

[Devon-Rover]

Yup. got it in one.

On the plus side she might get promoted to tow motor, and so tow the other landy to events and i'll use her to sleep in then at bigger events. Just need to sort out a proper engine to shoehorn under the bonnet.  :twisted:

[crazymac]

Just need to sort out a proper engine to shoehorn under the bonnet.  :twisted:

One of my mates did a "stage 1" conversion to his 109 SW. He was using it as a camper on rally events etc as well as a tug for his trialer so dropped a 3.5V8 in there. It was not straight forward and you need to think a few things through but definately possible. he went from 10 - 15 MPG to 20 - 25 MPG so was well chuffed.

He's since mothballed it as he bought a Pizagaer (not sure of spelling!!) 6x6 that he uses for everything now.

[Little-Green-Machine]

joining S.R.O.C soon in our 2a deisel can't wait :twisted:

[Little-Green-Machine]

i dont think that we will have probs trialing , the old girl thrashes the backsides off all the 90's and everything else at pay and plays :D

[Devon-Rover]

Well all going well the engine of choice will be a TDI in midly Tweeked format. So the same power as basic V8 but with the fuel economy that i can live with.

If i could affrord too and was still allowed to fix the landy outside then i would of kept her standard and used her to trial in. As i'm consistantly mid field and that is against a lot of good drivers and some well thought out landies.

Average RTV turnout for us is about 40 Land Rovers.

[carbore]

OK, went to Binner down today to watch. First impressions,

1 The courses were tight and not friendly to a LWB, there were a few longer vehicles (range rovers)  though that did ok, so its not like I wouldnt get past the 2nd gate and in 1 or 2 cases, a tactical "shunt" could be a real advantage.

2 I was amazed how good a standard 90 is!!!! I have only watched off road on TV and its different when you stare down a slope covered in rocks and rain.

3 My exhaust needs to be moved before I go anywhere!

4 The leaf spring stuff also was at a disadvantage, so LWB, Leaf and 2 1/4 petrol is likley to be hard work. There may be a plan B though, a double drive in a 90.

[Devon-Rover]

Missed ya!

I was there. Managed to snap a rear halfshaft on the first section!    Spent the rest of the day double driving my little brothers series 2.

Don't discredit the series motors, After all we are using a class system so you compete against others in your class, and not directly against everyone overall.

As for being tight........ Errrr TBH today was one of the middle one's I have known a lot tighter than that.


Still should of said or tried to find me. Would of sorted you a day's membership for a fiver and stuck you in the passenger seat for the day.  :lol:  It's a different ball game again actually driving the sections rather than looking at them.

[carbore]

Hi,

It ended up being a last minuet decision to go due to a poorly wife, and I had to nip of early, but thanks v.much for the offer.

No you said it, I actually saw your car go bang (ow) as I was on that section and followed that group.  The 3rd gate seemed to be hard work in a series on that section, the next two sections were much easier, for all concerned. After that I had to go home again.

Still not sure if its ill do it in my truck or maybe do a double drive.  I think idd do some pay/play to test it out before deciding.

Thanks.

[Devon-Rover]

Thats ok just as i thought it was a snapped shaft.

Got home at 8 after waiting at a friends house nearby for the AA.

wipped out the shafts and the diff cleaned it all out, stuck a new one in. And i was mobile again by 10 ish.

The Series vehicles are enjoying something of a comeback as only a few years ago there was only one. and now there is 3. and i know of one chap seriously considering going back to his series 2 after using a 90 this year and not liking it. I enjoy using the series as it is a challenge. After all everyone  uses a 90 or a coiled 88 and your all the same. As you saw in the group the series 1 hybrid just goes anywhere without much fuss.

[onslow]

OK, went to Binner down today to watch. First impressions,

1 The courses were tight and not friendly to a LWB, there were a few longer vehicles (range rovers)  though that did ok, so its not like I wouldnt get past the 2nd gate and in 1 or 2 cases, a tactical "shunt" could be a real advantage.

2 I was amazed how good a standard 90 is!!!! I have only watched off road on TV and its different when you stare down a slope covered in rocks and rain.

3 My exhaust needs to be moved before I go anywhere!

4 The leaf spring stuff also was at a disadvantage, so LWB, Leaf and 2 1/4 petrol is likley to be hard work. There may be a plan B though, a double drive in a 90.

again dont think V8s and coils are THE trialling musts in our CCV events we have a few standard leaf spring models who do very well against the coil specials.indeed in our last RTV an 88" bog standard 2a came 2nd ahead of me.

Have a look at some pics here

http://crocweb.fotopic.net/

[Devon-Rover]

FYI carbore coming soon is a CCV down at Binner. And if you can i would pop along and watch them. I'm working so can't make it though.

Now you are entering the world of nutters. As they are 90% class 9 (80 inch coil) but you might get lucky with one or two 90's coming to play. Now what they drive over is simply mad.

But in the level of todays competitive events class 9 is seen as the easy way to go. Just the same as class 4 is for RTV.

Looking through this years results for the National / Baskervilles / Mendips it is clear to see which classes now dominate the sport in both disciplines and sadly it's not leafers.

[carbore]

I think ill give it a go in the big truck after a few pay/play days but with my longer than normal truck (essentially a hi cap) then i wont expect much. Id just like to get about half way and not slow down procedings.

If I like it then ill consider a SWB project (funds permitting)

I cant make the CCV as I need to finsih some DIY and have my trailer to sell on Saturday!

Ill be around some of the early events next year.