Seized caliper bolt desperation

[doris]

Hi All

Following my rear wheel bearing's demise over the weekend, I have been attempting to strip the hub down whilst waiting for the parts, but I am having terrible trouble with the bolts holding the caliper on.  I have managed to shift one, but the other is seized solid and now I have rounded of the stupid star pattern bolt!!  Judging by the state of the calipers, I think it must be 15 years old and never been off since the car was built.

Any ideas??  Suggestions?  Anybody local with the correct knowledge/tools willing to swap a rescue for beer or cash?

Damon

[clbarclay]

star pattern?

As in 12 point rather than 6 point, given you have trwice the contact area as standard a normal 6 point should have corroded round either worse or sooner.

Standard common cheap 'easy outs' are a mugs game.
These sort of extractors should be a lot better (remeber the phrase you get what you pay for)

http://buy1.snapon.com/catalog/item.asp?P65=&tool=all&item_ID=64882&group_ID=16597&store=uk&dir=catalog

[doris]

Thanks Chris

I thought that 12 point would give more surface area to corrode and less body in the points to withstand corrosion, but I guess you must be right.  Either way I am stuffed for the moment.

Looking at your link a thought just struck me..........  are caliper bolts 1/2inch or 13mm?!!  I couldn't get a 1/2in on it so I used a 13mm which appeared snug, and worked well on the other bolt.  But I guess it could be that the corrosion swelled it out a bit.

How do those extractors work then.......  do they bite in using the flutes which are keyed to bite in the opposite direction to the thread?

Damon

[clbarclay]

Yeah the grip the outside rathwer than common easy outs which grip the insid of the hole, which mean they work at a lower torque and are less likely to slip or break.


Not sure whether they are metric or imperial, it depends of vintage of the axle as they went on using imperial for some time, but 1/2" is approx 12.7mm.

[Wolfie]

Or http://www.machinemart.co.uk/shop/product/details/5-piece-bolt-grip-set
Ultimately probably lower quality than snap on, but they work.

[Les Henson]

I've used the extractor shown in Chris's post, but not a Snap-On item. They do work very well.


Les.

[clbarclay]

Yes I wasnt implying snap on were the only ones to go for, but they were the one I knew off the top of my head that made the extenal sort.

[karlo]

Or http://www.machinemart.co.uk/shop/product/details/5-piece-bolt-grip-set
Ultimately probably lower quality than snap on, but they work.

I have some Irwin tools and seem to be quite good quality IMHO

[doris]

Thanks chaps

Have been sulking and getting the bus for the last 24 hrs, but am off to machine mart tomorrow for that extractor set, a blow torch and a big can of plus gas.

I'll get the git out some way!

Thanks for the suggestions.

Damon

[mac]

Same Irwin extractor set is only £19.99 from screwfix if you have a Screwfix trade counter near you (no postage).

[Range Rover Blues]

Loads of WD40

I took an impact socket and hammered it onto the bolt.

BTW, if you undo the other bolt and hit the callper it will move a tiny amount, this will help break the rust out of the stuck bolt.

In the past I have cut the disk off the hub in order to get to that bolt.

[Range Rover Blues]

Oh here's a though. grind some flats ontot he bolts head, the heat caused by grinding will do you no harm either

[doris]

Thanks All

Am just waiting for the rain to stop as forecast and am going out to attack the bolt.  Wish I didn't have this hangover though!

Will let you know the results/ or not.

Damon

[peasey]

can you get any stilsons on it?loads of penatration oil on it and some firm whacks with the universal adjuster (mallet) might help and if you can get some stilsons on they will shift most things ,be careful you dont snap the head off!!!!

[martyn]

SAVE YOUR MONEY DON'T GET A BLOW TORCH IT WON'T GET THE ITEM HOT ENOUGH GET A HOT SPANNER OTHERWISE KNOWN IN THE TRADE AS A BURNING LAMP LOTTTTTS OF POWWERRR IN THEM +STILLSON GET IT RED AND IT WILL SOON COME OF.
GRIFF

[doris]

Well I heated it until it was just turning red, have beat it, used the bolt extractor sockets (Irwin), sworn at it hammered it after removing the other bolt, and it ain't moving a smidge!!!

Am now officially desperate and suicidal, and contemplating scrapping the poxy money pit!!  Humph.

I guess I could always just get another axle and swap the whole bloody thing over............  that's madness isn't it..........  what is it about these vehicles that make us so obsessive.........  I should have thrown this car in the bin long ago, but I just can't bring myself to do it and keep going back for more...........  ITS A DISEASE!!!!

Woe

Damon

[Range Rover Blues]

I can't remember exactly but when I had one stuck I split the calliper to get to the other end of the bolt.

Alternatively if you are contemplating an axle swap then grind the head off the bolt, cut the disk so that you can manouvre the calliper away over the shank of the bolt, that way you will have released the tension at least and you can get in to heat it up.

Got a welder? weld something to it, there's nowt like it for heating a bolt up.

[doris]

Well, following another 3 hrs heating beating and swearing in excess, I think its beaten me.......

I have heated it for 20mins, hammered sockets on it, hammered the caliper up and down to free it, and its still absolutely seized.

If I grind the caliper off and chuck it away........  either by grinding the disc away to get the hub off, or by grinding the bolt head off and taking the caliper off the stub, what parts am I going to need to put it back together??

Is the caliper bolted to a stub axle or something?  Can I just cut off what I need to to get to bolts, then remove and renew the bit that the caliper is attached to??

I have new discs in stock, and the caliper need changing anyway, but what else??

Many Thanks as Always

Damon

[Range Rover Blues]

The calliper bolts to a casting that's welded into the axle casing, damaging that is hardly an option.

If the disk needs swapping then cut it apart, I suggest you cut into the barrel shaped bit about halfway between the wheel flange and the braking surface so as not to damage the hub flange beneath and (perhaps first) cut the disk into 2 halves.  Being cast iron a good blow with a hammer and cold chisel will bust it clean in 2.  You'll also feel a little less stressed

Then if the calliper is goosed you will be able to see where to cut it in order to get it off that bolt.  If you can leave the bolt undamaged all the better.

Once you are done grinding the calliper away you should then be able to grab the bolt with mole grips and polish a nice scrathcy surface into it.  Why do I ever bother with the damn things :roll:

Grab it with Stilsons, if the head is still there even better.  If they won't budge it you have the option of welding something to the bolt. heating it up again now you don't have the calliper acting as a heat sink, or drilling it through from the outside of the car (last resort).

My personal favourite, grind the head into a T shape so the Stilsons really can't slip and use hands and feet to move it.  Grinding will really heat up the bolt (as will welding). Succesive heating/cooling (especially with WD40) and belting the thing will help break the grip of the rust.

[Ja1983]

can you get in to drill it out? seems like everyones going a bit destructive...

if you only want to change the wheel bearing, theres no point cutting/smashing your may through discs etc if at all avoidable.

if it will re-assemble well enough to drive, slip it into a backstreet garage, might cost a few quid, but at least you know it will get done, and saves your sanity! had similar trouble on a wishbone on the rover, could not free it at all, my mechanic was passing and had a go, even using a breaker bar it would not  shift, gave up, booked it in, with it loosely bolted back together drove it down the cobbled hill, by the time i got there it had jiggled around a bit, bit f heat, a bit of a twist anticlockwise, then tried it again....


....off it came!

surprising how a nip in the other direction can get it going!

[doris]

Thanks RRB.........  your attention has kept me sane, even if the thing is still not off.

I have now split the caliper, to leave 2 lobes in the way of the hub, have pivoted the caliper up on the uppermost (b*****d) bolt, and ground off the lobe of the caliper that was still in the way.

The Hub is now off!!

Unfortunately, the bolt is still seized, even after filing flats on it for a spanner and swearing at it all morning.

I now have access to the rear of the bolt, and can attack it from another angle.

Damon

[doris]

THE BOLT IS OUT AND THE AXLE IS INTACT!!!!  WOOOOO HOOOOO!!!!

Bust 3 drill bits drilling in to the rear of the bolt once the hub was off, heated it up again and drowned it in plus gas whilst hot thinking it would suck some in as it cooled, grabbed the head with a small pair of stilsons and it eventually moved.

It was F tight all the way out though.

Have to order a new caliper tomorrow now.  Do I have to do them in pairs??!!!  I don't think I could face a fight with the other side so soon.

Many Thanks once again for all your encouragements and advice...........  we have overcome.

Damon

[clbarclay]

THE BOLT IS OUT AND THE AXLE IS INTACT!!!!  WOOOOO HOOOOO!!!!

Theres nothing quite like the satisfaction of finally getting the better of a stubbon bolt, savor it.

[hobbit]

If your other calipre is working ok, you dont have to change them both, best get the bad side done and up and running first then test the vehicle on the road and see if it stops straight

[Range Rover Blues]

Meanwhile you need to beat the remains of the bolt into a thin sheet of scrap.  Trust me, it's very satisfying

Glad you got it sorted.  I'd suggest soaking the other side in diesel or plus gas for a couple of weeks before you attempt it.  Even if you just take the bolts out and grease them up, best not leave it until it needs doing.

[doris]

I have got all triumphant now!!..........

Have got myself a 1/2inch impact driver, a new pair of calipers, new discs, and new caliper and disc bolts.........

Got my disc off the removed hub in 2 minutes with the new toy, and the passenger side doesn't look quite so bad, so am going to go for it.

Trouble is it is 2 weeks until payday and the cupboard is bare.......  ho hum.

BRING IT ON!!