Serious help needed.

[muddyjames]

I have a really really bad vibrating sensation going through the disco. It is worse when accelerating and especially at 30mph.

It doesnt happen when sat idling.

I have had a 4x4 landy specialst (that I wont be going back to as all they seemed to like saying was yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah) but they did mutter other words which was the prop shafts seem to be in good condition. So it isnt the UJ joints.

The only other possible clues which may be normal are.
Slight whining from somewhere. possibly from transfer box but not sure.
I put it into low range and drove in my close and if I was stationary then floored it it reved to 3000rpm but moved forward then whizzed up through the gears to 4th. I dont know if this is normal or not.

I am seriously hoping it isnt a transfer box or gear box as that would be a repair I certainly cant afford.

I am supposed to tow my caravan on friday week but at this rate I dont think it is going to happen :-(

I cant get hold of my nice landy mechanic, so come on mud clubbers whats your verdict.

[G]

Is it lifted? Could be the rubber ring coupling (rear of the rear prop). Mine eats the rubber rings regularly and causes massive vibrations. The one i took of last time didn't look too bad until i got it off.
Or could be a binding caliper/warped disc.
 

I put it into low range and drove in my close and if I was stationary then floored it it reved to 3000rpm but moved forward then whizzed up through the gears to 4th.

Didn't quite understand this bit. If you floor it in low box it should (if it's anything like mine) move off pretty rapidly and move up through the gears quite quickly. G

[Skibum346]

Have you had a clamber underneath yourself James?

It could be a really easy answer (UJ's) and it's easy to spot them. Basically, there should not movement between the components relative to each other in any plane (rotation, vertical or horizontal). If there is then that UJ will need replacement (and may be a sign the others are on their way out).

While you are underneath, try the same test on the diff flange (bit that goes into the diff form the prop shafts) again, looking for excesive play in any plane. If there is, your diff pinion bearing will be shot. It's a reatively straight forward DIY fix.

After that it could be swivel bearings, transfer box or I suppose gearbox but let's not get too despondant too fast eh?!

Let us know where your hat is at the moment and one of your local members I'm sure would be happy to pop over.

Skibum

[muddyjames]

It has standard height police spec shocks and springs.

Erm how else do I describe it. If you pul away in low range does yours accelerate really quickly in 1st gear? With mine it is like a clutch slipping as the engine revs to 3k with a very slow acceleration and then once at 3k revs it changes up through all 4 gears really quickly and off I go quickly too. Mine is an auto if thats a vital bit of the puzzle!

[muddyjames]

I had a very quick crawl under and the prop shaft to each axle didnt move up or down and guy at "specialists in 4x4 especially land rovers" (cough cough yeah yeah yeah right) gave the prop shafts a pretty good wiggle as he was moving the disco back and forth (as much as it can in park anyway).

I am currently laying my hat just outside Daventry

[G]

It has standard height police spec shocks and springs.

Erm how else do I describe it. If you pul away in low range does yours accelerate really quickly in 1st gear? With mine it is like a clutch slipping as the engine revs to 3k with a very slow acceleration and then once at 3k revs it changes up through all 4 gears really quickly and off I go quickly too. Mine is an auto if thats a vital bit of the puzzle!

Check all the cheap stuff first. Vibes through the transmission are normally props, ujs etc. Whip the props off for a propper look at the uj's and the rubber ring coupling, 25min job maximum. Remember to pop mark the diff and prop flange to ensure you get them back on in the right place.

Mines an auto too, had assumed yours was. Mines a V8 though so probably not comparable. Check the fluids and discount gearbox probs till you've checked everything else. G

[Skibum346]

Have to say mate, your description makes it sound like the gearbox, especially as you describe it as clutch slip. The transfer box has no slipable components... unless it's a borg warner with viscous coupling but that would tend to lock rather than slip.

Do you have the same symptom in high range?

Skibum

[muddyjames]

When in high range it does sometimes rev really high then thump into the next gear but that tends to be when cold and from 1st to 2nd.

I put red ex in the tank recently and that has made the gear changes alot smoother and it hasnt done it very often since then.

I have just had another crawl underneath and there is ep90 leaking out of the rear diff. How do I explain where it is leaking from  :?  Here it goes!!!! Where the drive shaft bolts onto the diff there is a small groove right at the drive shaft end. it is leaking from there. I have very poor photos if they may help.

Im guessing auto boxes will make a disco this old a right off? If it is the gear box :?

[Skibum346]

Sounds like the pinion oil seal, designed to let the shaft driven by the propshaft enter the diff... without your black gold leaking out. Again, it's a relatively simple diy fix.

If it's your gearbox and your going to pay a professional, I'd suggest it will be pretty expensive. However, lot's of members change gearboxes with monotonous regularity so there is hope.

If it is the gearboxz, your options are (as I see it):

Brand new gearbox installed by a professional
Reconditioned gearbox installed by a professional
Reconditioned gearbox installed by knowledgable person
eBay special installed by knowledgable person

For gearbox costs check out Ashcrofts for a guide price or any of the other gearbox specialists in the landy mags. There is one in Rugby (Wards?) and a few around Birmingham.

I think you'd be best to get a decent garage to investigate and diagnose (I'd recomend Douglass Motors in Wolston near Rugby. A bit far perhaps but helpful & trustworthy!

With a decent diagnosis your options will be much clearer.

Incidently, I have heard tell of autoboxes behaving like new after a fluid & filter change (gearbox not engine fluid & filters of course!)

Hope all works out for you.

[muddyjames]

If the oil has run out in the rear axle then will that make it vibrate like it is? I only had the oil changed in those before xmas and I have done about 1000-2000 miles since then  :?

I am tighter than a ducks ar** so will investigate the cheap routes first.

If I was to buy an ebay special that had a broken manaul gearbox with a good transfer box would the transfer box fit my auto box?

I think I will have to just keep pestering my local landy mechanic for a proper diagnosis (he is on this forum too. Alan if your looking get in touch please   )

[muddyjames]

I havent had hgear box oil replaced since I bought the disco in nov 2005 and who knows before then when it was replaced. I have always been told that if it is pink then it is fine but if the oil goes a burnt red colour it is time to change it. Mine is still pink. Everytime I dip the stick I get different readings on whether it is ful or empty. This can be 3 dips one after another. I test it as per instructions on dip stick. Engine idling and cold. It goes from below empty to way over full.  :twisted:

[Range Rover Blues]

Vibration could well be the rear prop, especailly if its got the damn rubber thingy.  I swapped mine and it was no better, you have to change the iner lining sometimes too, the bit the spigot goes into.

If you are getting a vibration (under load isn't it?) then this could be the cause of the oil seal failure and the group of symptoms would make me look there first.

As for the slush box, remeber that the speed sensing for the valve gear is on the INPUT to the T-Box, so if you set of like you stole it in low range, the auto box will just think you set off down a really steep hill and are doing 0-60 in 2 seconds flat, that's why you get 1-2-3-D, so that you can hold the lower gears, the auto bit is a red-herring in low range.

If it's clunking and snatching when you select drive then check the oil level and/or change the oil.

But start with that back prop, take it off and drive round without it if you aren't sure.

[Skibum346]

But start with that back prop, take it off and drive round without it if you aren't sure.

 #-o
 :(bigoops):

Once again RRB reminds me to start with the simple tests!

**Bows Down & Chants...**

"I am not worthy... I am not worthy...."

 :(biglaugh):

[muddyjames]

It is indeed only under load. Well most of the time anyway.

Here are 2 bad photos of the leek. Not very clearly seen Im affraid.





I shall try and take the rear prop off on sunday and see what happens. What is the max speed sensibly I can go with 1 prop? The vibration kicks in at about 30mph. Can I go to 40mph?

It used to really thump into gear when G box was cold and only from 1st-2nd. It used to rev to 3k rpm then thump down. Doesnt do it as much since I put red ex in the diesel tank.  This was in high range.

If I take rear prop off it could be a good time to look at hand brake inners as that doesnt work too well either. Only holds on very last click of lever. Thats another story though solved by P!!!!

[extreme90]

thats only a weep  :lol:
usualy a bit of mud gets caught up and just rips the seal, easy enought to replace, if its the pinion bearings its abit more involved, and really isnt for DIY unless you have done a few and no the pre-load, backlash and hight settings for the diff  

i hate doing them even now after doing quite a few diff rebuilds and converting 10 to 24 spline  

you have checked you hand break isnt binding or stuck on ,
cos you lot with autos only use them once in a blue moon so they have a tendancy to stick  :lol:

dan

[muddyjames]

I am a very very very much a starter when it comes to diy. I can take things appart but have a jam jar in the boot for left over bolts  :shock:  :lol:  And Im not joking!

My handbrake used to work but I went off roading and it grounded out on a rock and since then I have a tiny bit of hand break on the last click. As you say. I tend not to use itnow. On my other car the hanbreak sticks and heats the pads / disks up nicely and stinks. dont use hand break on that either :lol:

tis all a mystery to me!

[muddyjames]

Well I took rear prop off today and rove it and it still vibrated. then jacked up each front wheel and it vibrated. On 1 wheel it even vibrated it self off the jack!  :shock:  :oops:  oops!

The vibrating is so bad my neighbour outside the disco by the door could see the vibrating inside of the passenger seat, inside mirror etc.

So I am guessing it has something to do with T box output for front prop or front axle?

[Lee_D]

Right then... rear prop back on and repeat test making sure diff lock is eng first.

Not a loose wheel on the left hand front?

BTDTGTTS

Lee

[muddyjames]

rear prop is back on and tested both the front wheels in the air in drive. I was going to take front prop off but looked too fiddly and ran out oomph. i wanted to something that i got a result out of so mended the HUGe rust hole in my rover boot!!

[muddyjames]

Well I have spent nearly 5 hours getting the front prop off. What a nightmare to do. All the nuts are in places only a quadroople jointed person can get too and I now weigh less due to alot les skin on my hands!!! :lol:

Once I had undone all the nuts, would the prop come off? By eck would it not. It wouldnt contract up to get it off the nuts the gear box end. After trying to prize it off with wedging screwdrivers in and only succeeding in moving the gearbox but not the prop I rang a few guys in the know and hey presto off it popped. I had to jack the chassis up to extend the length of the prop. Cunning plan and I wish I had phoned around alot earlier!!

The reason for all the vibrating as you may have guessed is the front prop wont extend. It has well and truly rusted solid. I have gone for a quick test drive and all the vibrating has gone :-)

Next thing is to get another prop!!! and spend another 5 hours putting it back on!!

Oh and another nut as one went for a flying lesson and I cant find it!

Next thing after that is to buy new insurance at nearly £400 3rd party F+T  :shock:  

[Thrasher]

Um...James - you did move the vehicle to get at the nuts didn't you?

As in roll it so you can one, then roll it a few inches further to get the next and so on?

If not - well - yes - you need to ring more people lol!

[muddyjames]

Well erm no I didnt move it. I had it up on ramps!!! When I did the rear prop last week I put both G and T box into neutral and the prop turned to access them. The other end (axle end) was easy to get to them all.

[Thrasher]

Not sure how that would have worked on the rear - to turn the prop without any interference from the diff would mean ... well - either the back wheels were off the ground, or you have a very broken rear diff....

It's a quick job without ramps...... ;)

[muddyjames]

I may have done rear bolts first then and turned prop once those were undone to do the hand break end. I dont realy know what I do!!! :lol:

I just need to sauce a new prop now. Is it worth getting a second hand one or bite the bulit and get a new one? Will a new one come all ready and shiny to just bolt on or wil I need to buy uj's etc as well?

[Thrasher]

New one for a diesel (front) was around £90 from a dealer - with UJ's ... but this was in 2001......

[lee celtic]

fitting a front prop should only take 45 mins max you can get a special tool off eblag but you can do it with spanners.

Don.t put it on ramps or jack it just jam the chock under the front wheel and fit the first two bolts then move the chock about 5 inches from the tyre then roll the car up to it this will turn the prop until the next bolt is in play repeat until all the bolts are in and tight run it round the block and the repeat the thing again to make sure non of the bolts are loose and the prop and flanges have seated right . :D

I refitted mine by feel in the dark after fitting a new hardy spicer a bit late in the day and the torch died

[muddyjames]

Well I spent less than the length of a cd as I listened to a new cd whilst doing it. What an evil job to do. How comes a 14mm spanner is ultra tight fit on the nuts but they can stil round off? beyond me!

It was also interesting rolling a disco back and forth whilst underneath it!

It drives alot better now and also taking it for a test drive I have noticed that it doesnt drop down a gear nearly as much as before. could be something else or would a smooth runing prop help this?