Chat & Social > The Bar - General Chat
Welcome to the nanny state
muddyweb:
--- Quote from: "Bob696" ---It is 10 deaths a year of people who are probably better off out the gene pool (Peanuts kill an average of 15 a year btw). They could probably save more lives by banning ladders over 6ft.
--- End quote ---
And what if one of those deaths is a 5 year old child who touches a badly earthed metal sink ? Is our gene pool better off ? You can play with rhetorical argument all day, and still not prove anything.
--- Quote from: "Bob696" ---
At what point do you say the inconviniance to many (and the cost to everyone) is worth the life of an idiot?
--- End quote ---
Not sure I understand the question... but I geniuninely hope that you or someone you care about is injured by someone's bad electrical installation.
--- Quote from: "Bob696" ---
If you decide that it is 10 per year then cars in general are in a whole heap of trouble as are rollerskates, skis, peanuts, pushbikes, buses and probably even the computer you are sat at now.
--- End quote ---
But cars, food, toys, and consumer electronics are *already* covered by plenty of legislation to make them as safe as possible. We all accept the CE regulations which help to prevent accidents through poorly manufactured goods.
More to the point, when somebody makes a poor job of electrical installation, it's not just about hurting yourself. It's about the potential for risk to others too.
--- Quote from: "Bob696" ---Ten deaths a year from a population of 60 million is nothing.
--- End quote ---
I'll be sure to pass that message on to their families. :?
Bob696:
--- Quote ---At what point do you say the inconviniance to many (and the cost to everyone) is worth the life of an idiot?
--- End quote ---
Try this annolgy then
A salesman in his mondeo pulls out at a junction and I smash into the side of him with my D90. He dies. There is legislation introduced to ban 4x4s moving at more than 10mph in an urban area so that idiots like this are protected from themselves.
or there is the parent that dosnt supervise their 5 year old on a busy road, IF the 5 year old survives then they will do exactly the same when they have kids of their own.
--- Quote ---More to the point, when somebody makes a poor job of electrical installation, it's not just about hurting yourself. It's about the potential for risk to others too.
--- End quote ---
In most cases (9 out of the 10?) it will be members of their own family and the point comes back to the gene pool again.
At this moment in time I am REALLY hacked off with the goverment treating me like a complete idiot so they can protect the real idiots out there from themselves.
This IS different from protecting the public from shoddy merchandise/services. It is about protecting you from yourself.
Lets ban ladders so idiots who dont chok the bottoms arnt hurt, lets ban skateboards so children with no sense of balance arnt hurt, lets ban peanuts so that people with allergies who cant be bothered to read the lables arnt hurt.
WHY should I care about an incompetent DIYers family and WHY should I have to pay more to protect them? WHY should I be inconvenianced and out of pocket to save an idiot and/or his family? Its his family, if he wants to cut a few corners to save a few quid why should we interfere with legislation? He will ignore it anyway and the 'law abiding citizens" will have to foot the bill for observing it.
Range Rover Blues:
Do you know what anoys me the most about this?
I don't have the best opinion of 'professional tradesmen', some are good, granted, but some are bad. The guy on the credit card advert, "they pay me to tell them", you know the one.
The guy who rewired next door to my dad's house, a qualified electrician but what a cretin! I wouldn't trust him to watch paint dry and yet he is qualified to sign off an electrical instalation.
And how come we got no warning of this coming? another back door, nanny state, peice of C**P from the labour party. I did hear talk that we will ALL have to have a thermostatic tap in our bathrooms soon to prevent people sticking their babies into boiling bathwater!
How about having an exam for people who want to have babies, let's put the responsibility on making sure the parents are up to the job rather than assuming we are all idiots and reducing things to the lowest common denominator!
Maybe electricians will become the new plumbers, attracting all those graduates that can't get a job!
muddyweb:
I think this is being blown WAY out of proportion.
The suggested legislation says that an electrical installation in certain conditions should be carried out by a qualified electrician or should be checked by a qualified electician.
If you disagree with this, how do you feel about the MOT test ?
The MOT test is designed to ensure that a vehicle, at least once a year, complies with a set of requirements designed to keep them roadworthy.
If, in your example, the Mondeo had bad brakes because his 'mate who knows about cars' did some work for him, and there was no test to make sure they worked properly, then the emphasis on blame / responsibility changes somewhat.
Commercial properties have to go through a similar set of tests of their electrical safety, once a year, to ensure that public health is protected.
Will accidents happen ? Yes, of course. Because of that, should we walk away from testing, because it isn't 100% effective ? Not in my opinion.
The VAST majority of people in this country don't have the faintest idea how domestic wiring works, how different installation practices can affect the capability of the components.... does this make them stupid ? Does this make them more deserving of being hurt ? I don't think so.
The suggested changes in legislation are not there to accuse you of being an idiot.... can you tell me the contents of the wiring tables in the 16th edition regs book ? I would doubt it, unless you are a qualified electrician... but I don't think that makes you stupid..
As for the competance of electrical trades... well, I can't comment on personal experiences... but I would say that when dealing with an electrcian, make sure they are registered with the NIC EIC. There is at least a level of protection included in the process of qualifying for membership.
muddyweb:
--- Quote from: "Range Rover Blues" ---And how come we got no warning of this coming? another back door, nanny state, peice of C**P from the labour party.
--- End quote ---
Well, this is the warning... it's coming in January. It's not all that back door... it's been published on the Sky News website.
I must admit that I don't know the parliamentary procedure which have been undertaken to implement these regulatory changes, but there would have been some notifications and documentation. If we were bombarded with every piece of regulatory change / legislation that went through Whitehall, we would be overwhelmed.. and certainly wouldn't have the time to sit here arguing about it :-)
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