Police Procedures

[Yoshi]

Just watching sommat on telly and they have just given someone a 7 day producer, my issue is they gave him the ticket, didnt explain what it was, and said "sign this, i will explain what it is after".

Surely thats actually illegal?

[M19 ROO]

yeah b4 u get one and b4 they even right it out they are supposed to caution you and then tell you what they are doin and what they require of you to do with it..

and if a copper asked me to sign summot without tellin me what it was id deffo say no

[Sooty]

Technically it is not illegal it is unlawful and therefore you could ignore the request to produce.
Having said that if it is not on film then you may have problems persuading the magistrate in court after you have been arrested that you were given the ticket before you were told what it was for.
And also if your paperwork is in order what it the problem, the system is designed to catch the tow rags that drive illegal motors and cost you (I assume) and I so much money.
Policemen are human and make the odd mistake but on the whole do a dam good job in very difficult circumstances.
Sooty puts his soap box back under the stair until the next time :)  :)
Have a nice day :!:  :!:

[sleeplessparadise]

I saw this too and basically the policeman couldnt seem to make the man understand anything he said in English and so just said, "Sign this and I will explain after." That is definately wrong! and I would have said no [-X

[Magnum335]

When i crashed a tractor I was told to produce my insurance within 7 days but i never got a producer!!! How the nick loved that!!

[woody]

what happened to
the insurance database and the MOT database
i thought the police could check all your details before they get out of the car
and if they dont believe who you are then its off to the nick :lol:  :lol:

[Boggert]

I didn't see it, for some tickets you do not need to caution.

Also not all info is available on the PNC data base as yet.
MOT's are just coming on line so give it a another 6 months and it will be sorted.
The HORT1 or producer still needs to be issued expecially if there is a VDRS vehicle defect form issued.

[littlepow]

what happened to
the insurance database and the MOT database
i thought the police could check all your details before they get out of the car
and if they dont believe who you are then its off to the nick :lol:  :lol:

Databases require peolple putting the information in correctly and quickly. So there not always upto date on changes.

[Yoshi]

The thing was on telly, and i think you will find if you watch all the Road Wars series on Sky one two or three you would have seen it.  The officer in question i think should have lost his job long ago, so far i have seen, and this has been shown on the telly, excessive force, uneccessary rudeness etc...

This is something that annoys me about some police officers, they will be rude to you when they pull you over, but as soon as you reciprocate they nick you for it.  Its wrong on alot of levels.

[littlepow]

Not all police are power crazed madmen, some are women!  :lol:  :lol:







Sorry only joking, most I have worked with, or had dealings with are very helpful and polite.

But it is a stressful job, being abused if they doing anything and abused when the don't.

[Yoshi]

But even so there is no excuse for double standards, do you see paramedics shouting and swearing at people and they get abused more than the police do?

Its all about attitude, most officers think they are above the law, we see it every day, but then thats what drags down the honesty of their job.

[littlepow]

I think because people have lost respect for the law, and the police. Then they are struggling to complete their duties without taking certain libities.

But you wont complain when they stop someone ruining your life.

We should start supporting the boys and girls in blue, not giving them a hard time.

[Evilgoat]

But even so there is no excuse for double standards, do you see paramedics shouting and swearing at people and they get abused more than the police do?

Its all about attitude, most officers think they are above the law, we see it every day, but then thats what drags down the honesty of their job.

Yes I have, someone I worked alongside was hauled up and sacked for it. Theres 0 tolerance of that in the Ambulance service. And yes, we get abuse but theres a big difference. 90% of the people we see are happy to see us. Of the remaining 10% that arent and kick off, 9% of them arent even aware they are doing it or are unconcious.

Policies and perceived action/inaction colours our image of the police force and thats really not helping them right now. End of the day the Policeperson on the beat has no control about where he is sent or what the policies he is paid to enforce it is. I'm sure the guy on here that work for the police have policies the enforce but dont agree with. There are a few that beleive the law doesnt apply to them but in all fairness they dont seem to last that long before being busted downa nd eventually removed or taken off the beat. I know of a Met traffic cop that got progressively busted down to being a PCSO for being an arrogant useless idiot and tbh, when he left, they didnt loose anything.

[Boggert]

But even so there is no excuse for double standards, do you see paramedics shouting and swearing at people and they get abused more than the police do?

Its all about attitude, most officers think they are above the law, we see it every day, but then thats what drags down the honesty of their job.

Yes I have, someone I worked alongside was hauled up and sacked for it. Theres 0 tolerance of that in the Ambulance service. And yes, we get abuse but theres a big difference. 90% of the people we see are happy to see us. Of the remaining 10% that arent and kick off, 9% of them arent even aware they are doing it or are unconcious.

Policies and perceived action/inaction colours our image of the police force and thats really not helping them right now. End of the day the Policeperson on the beat has no control about where he is sent or what the policies he is paid to enforce it is. I'm sure the guy on here that work for the police have policies the enforce but dont agree with. There are a few that beleive the law doesnt apply to them but in all fairness they dont seem to last that long before being busted downa nd eventually removed or taken off the beat. I know of a Met traffic cop that got progressively busted down to being a PCSO for being an arrogant useless idiot and tbh, when he left, they didnt loose anything.

I agree guys there are good and bad in every profession, but when you get to work do you know what is going to happen...Ambulance and fire crews will know what i'm saying...

We get sent to dead bodies, car accidents, suicides, today I had a 18 year old lad shoot himself with a shotgun. My colleague has just come back to work after being beaten unconscious by a group of drunk youths while protecting a member of public a few weeks ago. However I will NOT accept ambulance and fire service crews being abused, we get use to it and accept it as part of the job.

[Yoshi]

Nobody should have to accept the abuse, but the problem i raise is that what can you do when a police officer treats you anyway other than with politeness?  I have tried the IPCC before and they basically did nowt.

The IPCC failed to take a matter further when we accused a WPC of failing to investigate a crime fully.

[Skibum346]

Nobody should have to accept the abuse, but the problem i raise is that what can you do when a police officer treats you anyway other than with politeness?  I have tried the IPCC before and they basically did nowt.

The IPCC failed to take a matter further when we accused a WPC of failing to investigate a crime fully.

What crime and what action was taken...?

[Cassillis]

yeah b4 u get one and b4 they even right it out they are supposed to caution you

Are they :?:
When did this change :?:  :?

[Yoshi]

Skibum, it was criminal damage, there was evidence that wasnt even collected which gave no doubt who the offender was, they were informed at the beginning about the evidence, there were statements and sms messages sent by the person threatening to do the act prior to committing it and yet the officer in charge did nothing.  Took them 3 weeks to actually get hold of the offender to talk to her about it, even though we told them where they could find the person most days and the police didnt bother.

So basically they had enough physical evidence but didnt follow up on it, i thought it was a poor show.  We contacted the IPCC who basically just fobbed us off with the usual excuses of the police not having enough time for small crimes etc..........

[Lee_D]

Skibum, it was criminal damage, there was evidence that wasnt even collected which gave no doubt who the offender was, they were informed at the beginning about the evidence, there were statements and sms messages sent by the person threatening to do the act prior to committing it and yet the officer in charge did nothing.  Took them 3 weeks to actually get hold of the offender to talk to her about it, even though we told them where they could find the person most days and the police didnt bother.

So basically they had enough physical evidence but didnt follow up on it, i thought it was a poor show.  We contacted the IPCC who basically just fobbed us off with the usual excuses of the police not having enough time for small crimes etc..........

Are you sure it wasn't a CPS decission? You can't fart these days unless the CPS will support it and I'm not overwhelmed with confidence in what they will / won't run.

SMS messages aren't actually evidence that an individual has done something / said something however they may corroborate other admissable evidence, like the person admitting they sent the message.

I'm not saying that morally it's correct or trying to pluck holes but given I work in the system I know the difficulties and realities rather than just a perception of whats going on.

For instance CPS won't run a case unless there is a realistic chance of the case succeeding. Then consider that the majority of cases have to be proved beyond all reasonable doubt perhaphs the officer in your situation is aware from personal experience what the CPS will run and what they won't, in which case your beef should not be with the officer who at the end of the day is trying to bring as many crooks to justice as possible rather than piling up statements and exhibits for the hell of it and leaving other offenders to continue offending in the mean time?

Of course not withstanding they could just be bone idle wasters supported by a corrupt nanny state system which would be much simpler to say.  :roll:

[Lord Shagg-Pyle]

CPS=Can't Prosecute Service.

[Boggert]

CPS=Can't Prosecute Service.

 :(biglaugh):  so true.

[zebidee]

Are you sure it wasn't a CPS decission? You can't fart these days unless the CPS will support it and I'm not overwhelmed with confidence in what they will / won't run.

This is my biggest bug-bear.

Whatever happened to proper community policing? As in the cops actually just spending some time in a town at night outside of their cars rather than just driving around.

My dad was a cop & he knew who all the troublemakers were - knew where they lived and made sure that they knew he knew.

So far my truck's had over a grand's worth of damage done to it by local kids who see it and decide to kick in a door or snap the aerial off. :evil: :evil:

The one time we managed to get a hold of one of the kids throwing a ball at our car on a Saturday night after the others ran off we called the police & were told there were no officers available.  :?

I mean [Edited] are we meant to do? Let the little runt go at which point we become bigger targets & the sods know they can get away with it.

I've been walking up the road from the train station on a Friday evening at 6:30 past kids drinking vodka & buckfast in the middle of the town centre.

<rant>

[Yoshi]

As far as i understand it the CPS arent involved until the evidence is collected and examined?  The SMS messages were only part of it, the picture this person took on their mobile fone of them doing the act and sending it to someone else who offered his phone to the police for them to use the photo and they refused.

[Boggert]

Are you sure it wasn't a CPS decission? You can't fart these days unless the CPS will support it and I'm not overwhelmed with confidence in what they will / won't run.

This is my biggest bug-bear.

Whatever happened to proper community policing? As in the cops actually just spending some time in a town at night outside of their cars rather than just driving around.

My dad was a cop & he knew who all the troublemakers were - knew where they lived and made sure that they knew he knew.

So far my truck's had over a grand's worth of damage done to it by local kids who see it and decide to kick in a door or snap the aerial off.

The one time we managed to get a hold of one of the kids throwing a ball at our car on a Saturday night after the others ran off we called the police & were told there were no officers available.  :?

I mean [Edited] are we meant to do? Let the little runt go at which point we become bigger targets & the sods know they can get away with it.

I've been walking up the road from the train station on a Friday evening at 6:30 past kids drinking vodka & buckfast in the middle of the town centre.

<rant>

Well community policing is back, so the goverment say, I spend most of my day on foot in my beat... anyway cannot comment on indivudal cases. We do need more PCSO's and police officers on the beat its a fact.

[discomummy]

Hi

In my mother in law's neighborhood, they put a bobby on the beat for 3 months as an experiment to see if it changed anything - damage, burglaries etc were down 60% over that time cos there was someone walking around.

of course it was an experiment so they have stopped it and guess what?  crime has increased back to previous levels

Are they going to put the bobby back - no they have not got the manpower to expend in this area , despite the workload going down 60% in reportable crimes.  

the police forces are just a farce nowadays - i am sure the bottom line workers try but they are hamstrung by the policy makers.

regards

ela

[Cassillis]

Well community policing is back, so the goverment say, I spend most of my day on foot in my beat... anyway cannot comment on indivudal cases. We do need more PCSO's and police officers on the beat its a fact.

The police service where i work is larger than it ever has been but in my opinion the service we provide to the public is a disgrace.

We are now turning up to calls some DAYS later not just hours, that to me is disgusting. I for one am sick to the back teeth of having to apolgise for the shoddy service.
Thank god i'm coming up to retirement it can only get worse

[Lord Shagg-Pyle]

Well community policing is back, so the goverment say, I spend most of my day on foot in my beat... anyway cannot comment on indivudal cases. We do need more PCSO's and police officers on the beat its a fact.

The police service where i work is larger than it ever has been but in my opinion the service we provide to the public is a disgrace.

We are now turning up to calls some DAYS later not just hours, that to me is disgusting. I for one am sick to the back teeth of having to apolgise for the shoddy service.
Thank god i'm coming up to retirement it can only get worse

I used to work in a rural area of Norfolk, where the nearest backup on nights was 45 minutes away.
I was double crewed on nights (covering 220 square miles) and was called to a burglary in progress. We went on blues and it toook us 30 minutes to get there and not surprisingly we got a gob ful of abuse from the house owner.
Now, I believe in being honest and truthfull, so I told the chap why it had taken us so long.
He was still miffed, but with the hierarchy, and duly made a complaint. I then got a 'carpeting' from my boss, as I had told the victim the truth.
Apparently, I was not to tell the truth, but come out with the 'party line'.

In answer to all the complaints and moans that people, quite rightly, have, from a grass roots level is.
More Police officers on the beat, who know what is going on, may prevent problems.
Simple enough really isn't it?
After 15 years of being on the Beat, I have had enough. I do not have problems with the Public, they are as frustrated as we are.
I am fed up with politicians who think they know what is going on, meddling with something they know nothing about.
Yes, there are some complete ar*es out there in uniform, but there are a darn sight more decent plod who are fed up with being dumped on by an unsympathetic, unknowing command structure, who are more interested in number crunching than the victim.
All I can say to those who are disgruntled with the service they get, is this
1)Complain
2)Get an application pack and join. It is still one of the best jobs to be in, and at least you stand a chance of changing the system from within.



Nuff said, going to find beer! :D

[Cassillis]

Nuff said, going to find beer!

Funny enough, exactly what i did  :lol:  :lol: