Yet another lifting question

[SnakeLogic]

Sorry for the trouble, but with all the information available on Mud Club, I've become a bit confused (not terribly difficult to do, as I'm a bit dim).

If I do a 2" lift by simply adding springs, am I going to to need all the extra bits that people who do a 3" need?  (corrected castor radius arms, prop-shaft, offset bushings, etc)

If I DON'T do these additional upgrades, am I looking at problems?  Serious ones?  My dealer here in Japan has done the 2" spring lift several times, but I'm the FIRST person (of his clients) who has wanted to actually take his Disco offroad.  Mostly, people here seem to lift the Disco as a fashion statement, and to each his own, I suppose.  I'm just trying to make room for bigger tyres to get my axles another inch or so off the ground.

[Range Rover Blues]

With a 2" lift you will rotate the front axle by 3 degress, this is by coincidence the correct castor setting for the front end, plus or minus 1.

So you will remove all castor from your car and possibly make it negative castor depending on what you had to start with.

This is what causes all the discussion.  To get it driving like it does now, you want castor correction.  You don't need cranked rear arms but they are nice to have, they are often dtronger too.

You need longe dampers or you are wasting your money, longer dampers on stock springs is better than stock dampers on big springs.  Many folks stick with the former to great effect.

You will want longer brake hoses for safety.  What else do we usually mention? can't remember, the beer monster has got me :roll:

[Sheddy]

I'll concurr with the victim of the beer monster! :)

Beer, getting ugly birds laid since 324ad. You gotta love the stuff.

Anyway, back on track.  For a 2" lift you don't necessarily need to change anything other than the springs, shocks and brake lines.  I would add to the B.M> victims comments that I found that by using uprated springs I get a nicer ride in my Disco.  If you are fitting things like winches, heavy duty bumpers, rock/tree sliders etc. then bear in mind the additional weight your adding to the vehicle, you may need to have the springs uprated just to cope with the weight.

Other mods?

Corrected radius arms and trailing arms will make the vehicle drive nicer after the lift and allow it to articulate easier off road.  
Ploybushes .... to be honest, I'm starting to question the validity of this modification.  I've tried various ones by different manufacturers and they all seem to fail a lot quicker than the Landrover bushes.
Cardan propshafts (see.. I did take notice of the chap who pointed out that they're not double cardan!) aren't necessay on a 2" lift, neither are open yoke propshafts.  Standard ones are fine.

if I think of any more I'll carry this on, but I've got to go and stop my 5 year old from bashing his little brother with drum-sticks.

[Skibum346]

I've got to go and stop my 5 year old from bashing his little brother with drum-sticks.

Chicken or turkey...?

 :lol:  :lol:

[SnakeLogic]

While I'd LIKE to get all the extras, I think I'll end up with just springs for starters.  My firstborn is due in February, and I've got to start being sensible with my money.

While I'm on it, would it be worthwhile to have dislocation cones installed if I'm not removing the anti-sway bar?  My (admittedly limited) understanding is that keeping the anti-sways will limit my articulation anyway, and for the amount of on-road vs. off-road driving I do, and given that half of my turns are 90 degrees, I'd rather not lose them.  Back to the dislocation cones.  As long as I'm getting the uprated springs installed anyway, the labor (err, sorry, labour) charges will be negligible.  So, worth it?

I was going to but a snorkel and extended breathers on first (the play area is a small island in the middle of a river (the Kiso-gawa, if anybody cares), but I think wading plugs will suffice for now.  I got pulled of the mud today, and I have to have new tyres.

[thermidorthelobster]

We Disco II drivers don't have the luxury of being able to fit castor-corrected radius arms, so we have to live with the slightly sloppier handling.  I can't say I find it a problem though.  Both the vehicles I've lifted have had adequately long brake lines that I didn't need to replace them, but I did need to fiddle with the cable for the ABS sensors on the Disco II, to give more space between the fixing gromit and the sensor.

[SnakeLogic]

So just why is it that there are so many accessories available for the Disco 1 and not as many for the 2?  Difficult to make, or smaller market?

BTW, The Mid, the camping car in your Avatar photo is mighty cool.  Do the paint yourself?

[Skibum346]

While I'm on it, would it be worthwhile to have dislocation cones installed if I'm not removing the anti-sway bar?

As I understand it... with a lifted vehicle and anti-roll/sway bars there is a danger that at extreme articulation, the ant-roll bar mount can pivot and end up in the reversed position. This can be aleviated by mounting a spacer between the chassis & anti-roll bar mounting.

There is great debate about the benefits of setting a vehicle up for off-road or on-road and what is the best optimum. My own opinion is that you set the car up the way you wan't and then drive within it's new envelope. If you want better articulation off road, remove the anti-roll bar and be more conservative cornering.

Back to the dislocation cones.  As long as I'm getting the uprated springs installed anyway, the labor (err, sorry, labour) charges will be negligible.  So, worth it?

I'd say so... it will prevent horrible sounds of springs not re-seating correctly, even with anti-roll bars, and possibly prevent expensive damage to the wheel arch/spring/spring mounts.

I was going to but a snorkel and extended breathers on first (the play area is a small island in the middle of a river (the Kiso-gawa, if anybody cares), but I think wading plugs will suffice for now.  I got pulled of the mud today, and I have to have new tyres.

In my opinion, snorkel and breather should be the first mod done to any off road vehicle. The cost of a new engine due to hydro-locking leading to bent con rods, push rods, bust valve seats, broken heads... just aint a gamble I'm willing to take. Especially as buildng your own is cheap easy and satisfying! Check out my gallery for the details.

Kindest

Skibum

[muddyweb]

Disco 2 is still a much smaller market, so only a few people are developing products for them.  As the vehicles get cheaper, you'll find a lot more 'cheap' products becoming available for them as stuff gets copied and rehashed.

Before you do anything in terms of removing stuff like anti-roll bars, check your local vehicle regulations... in some countries taking factory-fit components off can make the vehicle illegal to drive... there are also often restrictions on how much lift / lower you can fit to a vehicle.

[SnakeLogic]

One of the funny things about Japan is that the vehicle has to pass the inspection (every 2 years), but other than that, it can be most anything for the other 729 days.  I saw a Land Cruiser lifted enough for small children to walk under (really) driving down the road a few weeks ago. Anything that alters vehicle height (lift kits, big tyres) or width (wheel arch flares) is disallowed, but nobody I've talked to has ever been hassled by the police.  They just have to return the vehicle to original (or maybe pay somebody off?) for the inspection.

I've heard about about that flipping anti-sway bar problem.  Anybody know a source for the spacers?

[Range Rover Blues]

In the UK we get to bolt whatever we want onto out towbar, so the swan neck towbar is not that popular, it don't know what you have over there.  Anyway, the ISO50 towball has 2 m16 bolts through it but the hole centres are perfect for the job of ARB spacer, just as long as the spacer isn't hollow so that hte rubber bush dissapears into it.

[MADMAN]

the rear anti roll bar on my old 200tdi ranger flipped on one side while off road then failed to flip on the other side & twisted the bar so when i removed the links to put it back to normal the back end sat tilted to one side!
so i binned it, didnt make much difference with the stiffer brit part  +2" springs & gave more droop off road

[Guardian.]

for a straight forwar 2 inch lift you need change nothing, i have lifted lots with just the spring and shock kits, brake lines are long enough, but thats the only other thing that would need doing if you do off roadin.
pack the anti roll bars 2 inches as a precaution because as everbuddy says, they can flip, but i strongly advise against tacking them off as the last one i did on my own disco was the first time i took them off and there is no 2 ways about it, on road without them they drive totally crap and wobble everywere.
once you have lifted get your tracking reset and it will drive fine, i bet you dont even notice a difference.

[Range Rover Blues]

One of the things that makes a difference is the condition of your steering.  On RRR I have put off fitting any new steering components as I learned on Blue that when you fit a nice tight new steering box any self centring effect left on a 2" lift dissapears.