Winches Again

[Bulli]

the 2 spped one is faster but you cannot load it on the fast setting.

The first time i saw a modded 8274 in action i was stunned, they are that fast!

Yes the Gew was relaible and i would buy one quite happily for occasional use, just tkae your time and allow it to cool if you look like doing extended pulls....also pay out as much line to reduce the strain on the winch.

[redneck]

Hi Red at a guess (which probably mean I'll be put down :roll: ) I'd say that the 9500 is the same as a GEW with just another badge on so you could take your answer from Bulli above OK if you're not going anywhere in a hurry or  don't want to use it for an extended length of time   :lol:  :lol:

Cheers Mudlark
So would one of the bigger winches from ebay fall into this category of  being slow and OK for short use ie just for occasional recovery not challenge duties  :?:  or are there other snags with the cheaper winches (i've read through this post but you guys seem to be discussing the suitability of winches for competition work, are solenoids etc still a problem on these winches if used for occasional recovery) A slower winch would be fine for what i want.....I think  :?

[smo]

Hydraulic winches are a different league all together. They come in 2 forms.

1) Slow and reliable, they will pull and pull and pull all day long, they dont overheat (when installed properly), they rarely stall (never herd of it but covering my ass here) and they will genuinely pull to and beyond their rated capacity. The limiting factor is usually the pump.

2) Bloody fast and areliable, like the type R and other modded winches, except once again they pull and pull beyond the capabilities of an 8274, they can even go faster and certainly pull stronger than an 8274 and once again they dont overheat, or eat batteries/solenoids! The downside is you need a beefy pump, usually either PTO or crank chain driven, but thats ok cos once its setup properly itll do everything a twin motor modded warn could do and more :D

[Mudlark]

Hydraulic winches are a different league all together. They come in 2 forms.

1) Slow and reliable, they will pull and pull and pull all day long, they dont overheat (when installed properly), they rarely stall (never herd of it but covering my ass here) and they will genuinely pull to and beyond their rated capacity. The limiting factor is usually the pump.

2) Bloody fast and areliable, like the type R and other modded winches, except once again they pull and pull beyond the capabilities of an 8274, they can even go faster and certainly pull stronger than an 8274 and once again they dont overheat, or eat batteries/solenoids! The downside is you need a beefy pump, usually either PTO or crank chain driven, but thats ok cos once its setup properly itll do everything a twin motor modded warn could do and more :D

So where does 10 feet per minute (fpm) fit in is that fast or slow?

What fpm constitutes fast and what fpm constitutes slow?

[smo]

Hydraulic winches are a different league all together. They come in 2 forms.

1) Slow and reliable, they will pull and pull and pull all day long, they dont overheat (when installed properly), they rarely stall (never herd of it but covering my ass here) and they will genuinely pull to and beyond their rated capacity. The limiting factor is usually the pump.

2) Bloody fast and areliable, like the type R and other modded winches, except once again they pull and pull beyond the capabilities of an 8274, they can even go faster and certainly pull stronger than an 8274 and once again they dont overheat, or eat batteries/solenoids! The downside is you need a beefy pump, usually either PTO or crank chain driven, but thats ok cos once its setup properly itll do everything a twin motor modded warn could do and more :D

So where does 10 feet per minute (fpm) fit in is that fast or slow?

What fpm constitutes fast and what fpm constitutes slow?

Thats relatively slow, but is that under full (12,000lbs) load or is it freespooling?

Milemarkers (being the most common hydraulic winches seen) are slow out of the box, they have numerous restrictions, the pumps are poor, PAS pump, or the ZF pump are ok for occasional use but serious stuff needs pto or crank driven motor, then with a decent spool valve and other mods you can really make them fly :D

[Mudlark]

Hi Red at a guess (which probably mean I'll be put down :roll: ) I'd say that the 9500 is the same as a GEW with just another badge on so you could take your answer from Bulli above OK if you're not going anywhere in a hurry or  don't want to use it for an extended length of time   :lol:  :lol:

Cheers Mudlark
So would one of the bigger winches from ebay fall into this category of  being slow and OK for short use ie just for occasional recovery not challenge duties  :?:  or are there other snags with the cheaper winches (i've read through this post but you guys seem to be discussing the suitability of winches for competition work, are solenoids etc still a problem on these winches if used for occasional recovery) A slower winch would be fine for what i want.....I think  :?

The branded electric winches that are coming in from germany seem to be selling at the rate of around 2 per day at between £150 - £250 plus postage at 12,000 lbs doesn't sound bad - Motor might probably be a bit iffy but should fit in with, and is probably no different from, a lot of the chineese ones. Soleniods will be a problem on any winch if you don't use it right If you don't try switching a solenoid with a full load on the rope you shouldn't get a problem in other words slack off the load before taking it up this allows the contactors to pass less current reducing the size of the contact destroying spark that occurs.

[Mudlark]

Hydraulic winches are a different league all together. They come in 2 forms.

1) Slow and reliable, they will pull and pull and pull all day long, they dont overheat (when installed properly), they rarely stall (never herd of it but covering my ass here) and they will genuinely pull to and beyond their rated capacity. The limiting factor is usually the pump.

2) Bloody fast and areliable, like the type R and other modded winches, except once again they pull and pull beyond the capabilities of an 8274, they can even go faster and certainly pull stronger than an 8274 and once again they dont overheat, or eat batteries/solenoids! The downside is you need a beefy pump, usually either PTO or crank chain driven, but thats ok cos once its setup properly itll do everything a twin motor modded warn could do and more :D

So where does 10 feet per minute (fpm) fit in is that fast or slow?

What fpm constitutes fast and what fpm constitutes slow?

Thats relatively slow, but is that under full (12,000lbs) load or is it freespooling?

Milemarkers (being the most common hydraulic winches seen) are slow out of the box, they have numerous restrictions, the pumps are poor, PAS pump, or the ZF pump are ok for occasional use but serious stuff needs pto or crank driven motor, then with a decent spool valve and other mods you can really make them fly :D

That is full load using the ZF 74 pump, so with the milemarker it's just a case of upgrading the pump and control valve to allow greater flow I assume?

[muddyweb]

That is full load using the ZF 74 pump, so with the milemarker it's just a case of upgrading the pump and control valve to allow greater flow I assume?

To a degree, yes.   I know a couple of guys with heavily modified Type R winches which work very well...  but it's not a cheap option by any stretch...  you have to be serious about your winching to warrant it :-)

When you start to run the hydraulics to those sort of speeds / pressures, you need to get some oil cooling in there, and usually a decent sized oil reservoir too.

You also need to make sure your vehicle is up to the job...  sounds a bit daft but when you get to a hydraulic winch that pulls that hard and fast, then you need to be sure that all the mountings and associated hardware is seriously well attached...  not the time for a 150 quid cheap winch bumper  :shock:

[redneck]

Hi Red at a guess (which probably mean I'll be put down :roll: ) I'd say that the 9500 is the same as a GEW with just another badge on so you could take your answer from Bulli above OK if you're not going anywhere in a hurry or  don't want to use it for an extended length of time   :lol:  :lol:

Cheers Mudlark
So would one of the bigger winches from ebay fall into this category of  being slow and OK for short use ie just for occasional recovery not challenge duties  :?:  or are there other snags with the cheaper winches (i've read through this post but you guys seem to be discussing the suitability of winches for competition work, are solenoids etc still a problem on these winches if used for occasional recovery) A slower winch would be fine for what i want.....I think  :?

The branded electric winches that are coming in from germany seem to be selling at the rate of around 2 per day at between £150 - £250 plus postage at 12,000 lbs doesn't sound bad - Motor might probably be a bit iffy but should fit in with, and is probably no different from, a lot of the chineese ones. Soleniods will be a problem on any winch if you don't use it right If you don't try switching a solenoid with a full load on the rope you shouldn't get a problem in other words slack off the load before taking it up this allows the contactors to pass less current reducing the size of the contact destroying spark that occurs.

Thanks Mudlark
I might go for one of the cheap 12000lbs ones off ebay that way it'll have a bigger motor and wire rope and should be overated for what I want it to do, should stand a better chance of lasting a bit longer..........possibly.......maybe  :?

[Mudlark]

Hi Red at a guess (which probably mean I'll be put down :roll: ) I'd say that the 9500 is the same as a GEW with just another badge on so you could take your answer from Bulli above OK if you're not going anywhere in a hurry or  don't want to use it for an extended length of time   :lol:  :lol:

Cheers Mudlark
So would one of the bigger winches from ebay fall into this category of  being slow and OK for short use ie just for occasional recovery not challenge duties  :?:  or are there other snags with the cheaper winches (i've read through this post but you guys seem to be discussing the suitability of winches for competition work, are solenoids etc still a problem on these winches if used for occasional recovery) A slower winch would be fine for what i want.....I think  :?

The branded electric winches that are coming in from germany seem to be selling at the rate of around 2 per day at between £150 - £250 plus postage at 12,000 lbs doesn't sound bad - Motor might probably be a bit iffy but should fit in with, and is probably no different from, a lot of the chineese ones. Soleniods will be a problem on any winch if you don't use it right If you don't try switching a solenoid with a full load on the rope you shouldn't get a problem in other words slack off the load before taking it up this allows the contactors to pass less current reducing the size of the contact destroying spark that occurs.

Thanks Mudlark
I might go for one of the cheap 12000lbs ones off ebay that way it'll have a bigger motor and wire rope and should be overated for what I want it to do, should stand a better chance of lasting a bit longer..........possibly.......maybe  :?

It'll last a lifetime if you don't use it  :lol:  :lol:  :lol:  :lol:

[Xtremeteam]

snatch block....whats a snatch block  :lol:
i only use um to change direction of pull  :lol:
never doubled up no matter how hard the pull
ive neaver been in a stall situation, only then would i double up
as for damaging motors
dont matter when got facilities to fix  :lol:
shouldnt do it really but hu cares if it blows get another  :twisted:
danny

missed this first time round,

seconded,dont carry snatch blocks in my 90,just extension ropes,mines pulls 2 ton on the top layer of the drum so its all good  :lol:

[Bulli]

erm , do carry snatch block..i go out with G wagons

[Xtremeteam]

mine pulls 5 ton on the bottom layer & at times ive had to use it,normally at the cost of the standard cheap solenoids  :lol:

[Bulli]

how do you know what weight you are pulling?

[Xtremeteam]

by doing the sums :wink:a disco & a 90 + ground anchor still moving

[Mudlark]

mine pulls 5 ton on the bottom layer & at times ive had to use it,normally at the cost of the standard cheap solenoids  :lol:

It's a pity you can't get mercury switches any more - no more soleniod problems :lol:

[Xtremeteam]

mine pulls 5 ton on the bottom layer & at times ive had to use it,normally at the cost of the standard cheap solenoids  :lol:

It's a pity you can't get mercury switches any more - no more soleniod problems :lol:

Got a set of allbrites fitted now,not a problem

[Xtremeteam]

So after all the trolling and gobbing off, is Mudlark saying that he doubts the Paj's ability to complete a novice event intact?

Sums it up in one  :lol:  :lol:

[redneck]

Although I wasn't going to get involved in this debate I have to leap to Mudlarks defence slightly on this one.

Did a Scorpion Challenge event in mine this year.   Drove it home too.   So after all the trolling and gobbing off, is Mudlark saying that he doubts the Paj's ability to complete a novice event intact?

Here's the Disco just coming in to land!  (picture courtesy of www.scorpionracing.co.uk )

The vehicle pictured above is hardly what you would call a novice/standard vehicle. Surely a more balanced argument would be can a standard Shogun/Pajero go everywhere a standard LR can go  :?:  and from what i've seen the answer would be yes. ergo a Shogun or Pajero modified to the same standard of a modified LR would also be equally up to the job. The big advantage of LR over jap is the availability of off the shelf bits to modify them in this country (how many off road modified Shogun/Pajeros have you seen lately  :?: ) which will always give the impression that LR's are a more capable off road tool.
Personally I picked my SWB Pajero because it was much cheaper than a 90 (SWB, Diesel, £1000 all in with some secondhand All Terrains :shock:) and bang for bucks i can have just as much fun in it    i'm not actually bias either way, I trial a Suzuki SJ simply because I don't care if it gets a few dents (although I have trialed the Pajero on occasions  :twisted: ) But would happily own a LR if one came my way, I very nearly bought a Disco as my work vehicle but it didn't have quite enough length in the back for what i wanted (hence the Delica   )

[Mudlark]

Although I wasn't going to get involved in this debate I have to leap to Mudlarks defence slightly on this one.

Did a Scorpion Challenge event in mine this year.   Drove it home too.   So after all the trolling and gobbing off, is Mudlark saying that he doubts the Paj's ability to complete a novice event intact?

Here's the Disco just coming in to land!  (picture courtesy of www.scorpionracing.co.uk )

The vehicle pictured above is hardly what you would call a novice/standard vehicle. Surely a more balanced argument would be can a standard Shogun/Pajero go everywhere a standard LR can go  :?:  and from what i've seen the answer would be yes. ergo a Shogun or Pajero modified to the same standard of a modified LR would also be equally up to the job. The big advantage of LR over jap is the availability of off the shelf bits to modify them in this country (how many off road modified Shogun/Pajeros have you seen lately  :?: ) which will always give the impression that LR's are a more capable off road tool.
Personally I picked my SWB Pajero because it was much cheaper than a 90 (SWB, Diesel, £1000 all in with some secondhand All Terrains :shock:) and bang for bucks i can have just as much fun in it    i'm not actually bias either way, I trial a Suzuki SJ simply because I don't care if it gets a few dents (although I have trialed the Pajero on occasions  :twisted: ) But would happily own a LR if one came my way, I very nearly bought a Disco as my work vehicle but it didn't have quite enough length in the back for what i wanted (hence the Delica   )

Thank you Red for your support - I find the best thing is to let the Landie set  talk themselves into the ground, it's no good trying to tell them, they are just too set in their ways (very much like sheep I suppose).

Don't worry when I get out there and thrash them they'll have a bit more respect for the humble Shoggie - I doubt if they'll see any more sense though :roll:  :roll:  :lol:  :lol:  :lol:  :lol:  :lol:  :lol:

[rollazuki]

Don't worry when I get out there and thrash them they'll have a bit more respect for the humble Shoggie - I doubt if they'll see any more sense though        

Even a suzuki owner like me has to laugh at a bold statement like that.



Good luck :lol:

[Devon-Rover]

Obviously the LR owners here, are getting worried about being beaten.  :lol:  And so what? better off road it might be. We are all not going to insist you sell the landy and buy a paj.

But l'm sure the landy will be around when the japs have rusted and gone.  :P

Who abouts do you trial with? I might come over one day if it's close and watch.

[Mudlark]

Don't worry when I get out there and thrash them they'll have a bit more respect for the humble Shoggie - I doubt if they'll see any more sense though        

Even a suzuki owner like me has to laugh at a bold statement like that.



Good luck :lol:

The first part or the second part of the statement?? :lol:  :lol:  :lol:

[datalas]

Don't worry when I get out there and thrash them they'll have a bit more respect for the humble Shoggie - I doubt if they'll see any more sense though

Sounds fair enough to me, name the time and the place and we'll see if we can get Muddyweb, Eeyore, Redline and a couple of others down.. you can play follow my leader :)

There's nothing wrong with the Paj, other than it's owners seem to take such an overly defensive attitude,  do you all have some chronic inferiority complex or something ?

honestly, if they were that bad, why would Thrasher have bought one for his missus ?

[redneck]

There's nothing wrong with the Paj, other than it's owners seem to take such an overly defensive attitude,  do you all have some chronic inferiority complex or something ?

I haven't taken a defensive attitude, just pointing out that the argument should be balanced.

Anyway isn't it a Land Rover that's called Defender  :lol:  :lol:  :lol:

[Bulli]

i have a feeling that is more to do with its military heritage, which of course Mitsubishi also have. Including making military 4x4 prototype way back in 1937...errr and kamakazi dive bombers!! :shock:
Have fun in your divine wind!

[Sheddy]

The offer to accompany Mudlark on a novice challenge didn't involve the Disco.  As you rightly state, its far from standard.  The offer was to accompany him using a 110 with a set of A/T tyres on. It would seem that Mudlark see's the need to fit a winch and take advantage of the locking rear diff .... if he turns up.  I know what a standard 110 can do, I know where I can drive one and just how far it will go.  I have no doubt that the Paj will be put to shame.  I've had a Paj and wouldn't have a second one unless it was for destruction testing.  The Paj owners seem to have a lot to learn about the differences in capabilities between standard Landrovers and Mitsi's of the same age.

Why do Paj's have a locking rear diff as standard?  Because they need them.

Although I wasn't going to get involved in this debate I have to leap to Mudlarks defence slightly on this one.

Did a Scorpion Challenge event in mine this year.   Drove it home too.   So after all the trolling and gobbing off, is Mudlark saying that he doubts the Paj's ability to complete a novice event intact?

Here's the Disco just coming in to land!  (picture courtesy of www.scorpionracing.co.uk )

The vehicle pictured above is hardly what you would call a novice/standard vehicle. Surely a more balanced argument would be can a standard Shogun/Pajero go everywhere a standard LR can go  :?:  and from what i've seen the answer would be yes. ergo a Shogun or Pajero modified to the same standard of a modified LR would also be equally up to the job. The big advantage of LR over jap is the availability of off the shelf bits to modify them in this country (how many off road modified Shogun/Pajeros have you seen lately  :?: ) which will always give the impression that LR's are a more capable off road tool.

Personally I picked my SWB Pajero because it was much cheaper than a 90 (SWB, Diesel, £1000 all in with some secondhand All Terrains :shock:) and bang for bucks i can have just as much fun in it    i'm not actually bias either way, I trial a Suzuki SJ simply because I don't care if it gets a few dents (although I have trialed the Pajero on occasions  :twisted: ) But would happily own a LR if one came my way, I very nearly bought a Disco as my work vehicle but it didn't have quite enough length in the back for what i wanted (hence the Delica   )

[Range Rover Blues]

I'd still rather push a Land Rover than drive a bitsamissing :D

[Manicminer]

If it wasn't for jap motors, then Land Rover would still be building leaf sprung  SIII

Jap motors have kept Land Rover on their toes ensuring they keep developing into what they are now.
The designers of my Isuzu were told to build a vehicle that would equal a Range Rover classic V8. It does that very well with a nice 3.1L diesel engine that will out pull a standard V8 of that era.

The only downfall of my vehicle is that it is a bit low, but with the right modifications would equal a modifieded disco.

I have seen a Defender TD5 pulling a 14' Ivor Williams trailer with 3.5 tonnes on the back of it stuck on a gravel road because it had the front wheel wanting to lift up into the air. Unhiched the trailer off the back of the Defender and hooked the Isuzu to it and it pulled the trailer in 2WD, that's why we have a rear limited slip diff. I still had 4WD if I wanted it.

As long as the bodywork doesn't touch the ground then it keeps on going :D

[Xtremeteam]

Don't worry when I get out there and thrash them they'll have a bit more respect for the humble Shoggie - I doubt if they'll see any more sense though

Sounds fair enough to me, name the time and the place and we'll see if we can get Muddyweb, Eeyore, Redline and a couple of others down.. you can play follow my leader :)

There's nothing wrong with the Paj, other than it's owners seem to take such an overly defensive attitude,  do you all have some chronic inferiority complex or something ?

honestly, if they were that bad, why would Thrasher have bought one for his missus ?

Im in  8) Wales again?
I feel like driving a slope  :lol:  :lol: