Winches Again

[Range Rover Blues]

If it wasn't for jap motors, then Land Rover would still be building leaf sprung  SIII

If it wasn't for the COIL SPRUNG Range Rover there wouldn't be a market for family 4x4 at all

I have seen a Defender TD5 pulling a 14' Ivor Williams trailer with 3.5 tonnes on the back of it stuck on a gravel road because it had the front wheel wanting to lift up into the air. Unhiched the trailer off the back of the Defender and hooked the Isuzu to it and it pulled the trailer in 2WD, that's why we have a rear limited slip diff. I still had 4WD if I wanted it.

Well you can't do anything about driver error.  If the trailer noseweight was high enough to lift the front wheels of a Defender then it's very, very illegal.

If the Defender driver hasn't got the nouse to engage diff lock then tell him to join the "slap with a wet fish queue" over there.

Axle difflocks are fitted by manufacturers who know they have an articulation problem

[Bulli]

the g wagon has them and scores badly on the rti ramp.... to say the least. Me 9ft 4inch mates g just over 3 ft..... says a lot really.

[G-mod]

the g wagon has them and scores badly on the rti ramp.... to say the least. Me 9ft 4inch mates g just over 3 ft..... says a lot really.

True, very true: doesn't seem to hinder it offroad though :lol:

It just likes to wave at you! it went up Stanagde virtually on three wheels all the time, no bother

anyway back to winches.......................Hydraulic vs electric :roll:

[Bulli]

electric dear boy. cheaper and way quicker.....unless you spend a zillion quid

[Mudlark]

electric dear boy. cheaper and way quicker.....unless you spend a zillion quid

Take the whole system into account - extra battery, charge splitter, bigger alternator. (won't add on the possibility of burnt out motors )

Pit that against Hydraulic, is electric still cheaper?

[Bulli]

to run an occasional use electric winch you dont need to do any of that...i didnt and still recovered 6 vehicles with a gew 9000lb winch.
 Theres a lot of crap talked that you NEED to do this and that straight away...bull.
 My alternator is the original and works fine and dont even get me started on split charge, for winching they are not the best option anyway.

[Budgie]

I'm with Bully on that one.
I ran my 90 with a Superwinch X9 on the front for years with it connected to the one & only battery in the vehicle, no split charge, no twin battery setup, and the standard alternator.
It wasn't used for winch challenges, just for getting me or someone else out of the mud occasionally.  

[Manicminer]

I have seen a Defender TD5 pulling a 14' Ivor Williams trailer with 3.5 tonnes on the back of it stuck on a gravel road because it had the front wheel wanting to lift up into the air. Unhiched the trailer off the back of the Defender and hooked the Isuzu to it and it pulled the trailer in 2WD, that's why we have a rear limited slip diff. I still had 4WD if I wanted it.

Well you can't do anything about driver error.  If the trailer noseweight was high enough to lift the front wheels of a Defender then it's very, very illegal.

If the Defender driver hasn't got the nouse to engage diff lock then tell him to join the "slap with a wet fish queue" over there.

Axle difflocks are fitted by manufacturers who know they have an articulation problem

This was on a gravel road with a 90 degree uphill bend with a slight water runoff causing the Defender to crossaxle slightly, ie the ground pressure was less on the front wheel. He had his diff locked. The load was perfectly positioned on the trailer. The driver has 40+ years experience of LR products and lives on a farm and knew what he was doing.

[Mudlark]

One day Land-Rover owners are going to take off those rose coloured glasses they always wear and acknowledge the fact that Land-Rovers are not necessarly the best vehicle to get the job done.

I know they're almost half way there by the amount of modding that they do, fitting portals, difflocks, big american motors, dislocators In fact on some the only thing to come out of Solihul is the bodywork. :lol:  :lol:  :lol:  :lol:

[Bulli]

i see so wanting to improve is something bad?

I dont see the problem myself and personally feel its each to their own. If we all thought the same way progress wouldnt happen and we would all still have horses.... now they dont get stuck.

Anyway , money where your mouth is...put up or shut up....

[Manicminer]

No manufacturer builds a vehicle that is perfect in all conditions/circumstances. Most of us realize that, some don't

[Mudlark]

i see so wanting to improve is something bad?

I dont see the problem myself and personally feel its each to their own. If we all thought the same way progress wouldnt happen and we would all still have horses.... now they dont get stuck.

Anyway , money where your mouth is...put up or shut up....

Wanting to improve is not something bad contrarywise I think it's good too.

I too feel it's each to their own and if you feel the need to change everything so what, especially if you end up with a better motor, and most guys do, you've got to agree, otherwise they wouldn't do it.


But at the end of the day if you change everything except the bodywork then the thing that is getting from A-B is not a Land-Rover (or a jap motor if it comes to that) but at best a hybrid.

If a L-R owner had absolute faith in his vehicle (yes I know there are some) then they wouldn't have to do any modifications at all would they? :lol:  :lol:  :lol:  :lol:



PS money is scarce at the moment as most gets spent on improvements to the motor or off-roading necessities    :lol:  :lol:  :lol:

[Xtremeteam]

Anyway , money where your mouth is...put up or shut up....

YIP YIP

[extreme90]

One day Land-Rover owners are going to take off those rose coloured glasses they always wear and acknowledge the fact that Land-Rovers are not necessarly the best vehicle to get the job done.

I know they're almost half way there by the amount of modding that they do, fitting portals, difflocks, big american motors, dislocators In fact on some the only thing to come out of Solihul is the bodywork. :lol:  :lol:  :lol:  :lol:

a std 90 driven properly would still p*** on your pajero !  :shock:

[Mudlark]

One day Land-Rover owners are going to take off those rose coloured glasses they always wear and acknowledge the fact that Land-Rovers are not necessarly the best vehicle to get the job done.

I know they're almost half way there by the amount of modding that they do, fitting portals, difflocks, big american motors, dislocators In fact on some the only thing to come out of Solihul is the bodywork. :lol:  :lol:  :lol:  :lol:

a std 90 driven properly would still p*** on your pajero !  :shock:

There is a slight possibility that you'd be right, however a 90 does have a 17" advantage over my Shogun.

[extreme90]

so, whats with all this about us land rover owner reckoning theyre better than anything else about then  :roll:
cos what youve just said is that they are  :lol: so to speak
but, before i get into a slagging match
all have there good points in there own little way
like yours for instance, its got a certain degree of underbody protection fitted as std    albeit not very thick , but sommet better than nuffink rite  
end of the day, land rovers dominate the offroad scene
mainly because of there being that many accessories and toys around for them
parts are readily avalible....and not through the main steal agents coff JEEP coff coff  :lol:
yes ok they aint bombproof, but nuffin is, but they that simple and easy to work on out in field it makes them perfect
ok comfort wise they never gonna beat a paj but they walk all over any other 4x4 on the market that will be used offroad simply because of them reasons
danny

[extreme90]

o and another thing
they better on fuel aswel  :shock:
ok redline mike ( smokeynthebandit) is a exception  :lol:  :lol:
as his is worser than a v8 atm  :lol:  :lol:
danny

[Mudlark]

end of the day, land rovers dominate the offroad scene
mainly because of there being that many accessories and toys around for them
parts are readily avalible....and not through the main steal agents coff JEEP coff coff  :lol:

Now you've got it, I been trying to get this point through to you for ages, the only reason that L-Rs are seen to be so good is because they get loaded with mods.

Pit a standard 110 against a LWB paj or a 90 against a SWB paj and it'll be the driver that make the difference  :lol:

[Xtremeteam]

o and another thing
they better on fuel aswel  :shock:
ok redline mike ( smokeynthebandit) is a exception  :lol:  :lol:
as his is worser than a v8 atm  :lol:  :lol:
danny

Fixed now

[extreme90]

end of the day, land rovers dominate the offroad scene
mainly because of there being that many accessories and toys around for them
parts are readily avalible....and not through the main steal agents coff JEEP coff coff  :lol:

Now you've got it, I been trying to get this point through to you for ages, the only reason that L-Rs are seen to be so good is because they get loaded with mods.

Pit a standard 110 against a LWB paj or a 90 against a SWB paj and it'll be the driver that make the difference  :lol:

we only mod them because we go further, drive harder and want more from our trucks
take for example me
i compete in winch challenge events
so i got to have all the toys to stand a chance of top 3
so far 9.5k all in all as she sits outside in the yard right now
but for a people ho do lanes and stuff, you dont need mod them
snorkel and some decent mus tyres, thats all you need
most people mod them for looks
and they never eve sniff mud  :shock:
a std land rover will still be miles better than your pajero simply cos...hight
trans
and suspention travle
it all depends what you use your truck 4
me...chllenges = big big money
u ( afink lanes) nothing as its a green lane std anything will do it
you quite simply dont need a fancy all singing all dancing 4x4 to do greenlanes
or play days infact
cos 2BH i find anything other than challenges in mine is boaring, cos itll do it piece o p**s cos its got everthing
where as you will have a great day getting muddy, getting towed out simply cos its a challenge
id have a std 90 anday for messing around
quite simply more fun than i could ever have in mine
danny

[Sheddy]

I reckon that having thin underbody protection is worse than having none at all, it instills a false sense of safety.

[jjsaul]

bloody 'ell kids...

each to their own

i have a land rover because i like em
loads of blokes are work have paj's cos they like em

lets all chill and get on....no wonder the ramblers rip the 4x4 world apart!

BACK ON TOPIC

i would personally say electric...and also that all this split charge business is a waste of money unless you are taking part in a winch challenge.
I had a Warn xd9000i (for sale btw) on my RRC..used on an offroad week pretty frequently off my 1 battery with a standard alternator and i never had any electrical or starting problems!

[Mudlark]

:used on an offroad week pretty frequently off my 1 battery with a standard alternator and i never had any electrical or starting problems!

I don't know what size the alternator is on the landie but providing it equals or is bigger than the winch one battery should be enough providing the engine is running fast enough for the alternator to run the winch.

Only when the engine stops are you going to run into problems with the battery  :lol:

[redneck]

bloody 'ell kids...

each to their own

i have a land rover because i like em
loads of blokes are work have paj's cos they like em

lets all chill and get on....no wonder the ramblers rip the 4x4 world apart!

Well said that man  =D>

[Bulli]

mudlark, your answer above shows you dont really grasp electrical winch thing at all..All electrical winches can and will draw huge amps (450+) alternators only throw out max 140. The difference is made up from your battery. I would love to see an alternator that big but think you might lose more than a few horsepower.
That is why people fit deepcycle batteries as they can stand being fully discharged without damaged.
Whats wrong with a healthy debate? yes each to their own but the world would be boring otherwise and as for no mickey taking...hey thats part of life.

[redneck]

Whats wrong with a healthy debate? yes each to their own but the world would be boring otherwise and as for no mickey taking...hey thats part of life.

I'm all in favour of that, let's just keep it friendly  

[muddyweb]

i would personally say electric...and also that all this split charge business is a waste of money unless you are taking part in a winch challenge.

I'm going to disagree there....  IMHO, split charge systems have no place on a competition vehicle... just more money and complication you don't need.

[Bulli]

Tim that echos what i was saying earlier.

Split charge is great in a overland / expedition vehicle when a dead battery means you are stuck miles from help.

They just help to kill the battery if you use one to isolate when winching. As they stop the alternator charging the battery attached to the winch. This then overloads the batt and as the voltage drops the amp draw increases...qed dead batt real quick.

2 batts linked together are better as the voltage drop is slower, helping to reduce the load.

[Mudlark]

mudlark, your answer above shows you dont really grasp electrical winch thing at all..All electrical winches can and will draw huge amps (450+) alternators only throw out max 140.

 I wrote without checking :oops:  :oops:  :oops:  :oops:  :oops:  :oops:  :oops:  :oops:  :oops:  :oops:  :oops:  :oops: guess I had the no load amps stuck in my brain.

So this basically means that a deep cycle should be used for the winch and not rely on a single battery.

Your split charging theory is interesting as well, surely the alternator should be programed to charge the discharging battery or in the case of petrols the major discharging battery?
Does this not happen with a charge splitter?

[Bulli]

no split chargers are designed to protect the starter battery, which is not the one generally used for the winch. Thats why they are used for exped trucks. Thye can run fridges lights etc without the risk of not starting the following morning.
Most systems dont like to be connected to anything drawing that level of amps...it tends to fry them!!