Building a 90 from scratch

[smo]

Due to what appears to be an imminant change in my circumstances i might sell the CSW and build/buy myself a 90 truck cab...

What do people recon is the approx cost for a nicely kitted up 90 truck to be built from the ground up?

[TechnoTurkey]

Er, lots!

[smo]

Hmm, helpful answer!!!

I'm trying to work out if its cheaper/better to build on on a new galv chassis with engine etc, or buy one and then chuch half of it away when modding it!

[dew1911]

Talking £1000 for Galvi Chassis
About £1000 again for bodywork
£500 odd for engine + Box
£500 odd for Axles/ Drivetrain

Cheaper and (LOTS!) easier to buy a slightly ratty one and do it up.

[PUX]

to be honest smo i looked at this...... it all depends wot ur wanting it to come out as at the end i.e challenge spec green lane trailling etc etc or for pay and break days if its hallenge spec then let us know as i had a spec i was going to attempt if i did so i could dig it out and give u a rough guess :D  :D  :D  

[smo]

Talking £1000 for Galvi Chassis
About £1000 again for bodywork
£500 odd for engine + Box
£500 odd for Axles/ Drivetrain

Cheaper and (LOTS!) easier to buy a slightly ratty one and do it up.

That is dirt cheap, compare it to the dealer pricetag of my 04 plate 90 CSW that itll be replacing and youll see what i mean!

If building one was really that cheap i'd consider it, however i'd be looking at TD5 terretory, or possibly something else big and diesel :D

PUX - its heading towards challenge spec, i want to do start competing and am doing more and more pay and break days as well as green lanes.

[dew1911]

What I was aiming at is sort of Disco 200tdi Territory.

If you're doing that, I'd build a 100", Not a 90.

[PUX]

Talking £1000 for Galvi Chassis
About £1000 again for bodywork
£500 odd for engine + Box
£500 odd for Axles/ Drivetrain

Cheaper and (LOTS!) easier to buy a slightly ratty one and do it up.

That is dirt cheap, compare it to the dealer pricetag of my 04 plate 90 CSW that itll be replacing and youll see what i mean!

If building one was really that cheap i'd consider it, however i'd be looking at TD5 terretory, or possibly something else big and diesel :D

PUX - its heading towards challenge spec, i want to do start competing and am doing more and more pay and break days as well as green lanes.

he he also im not sure wot engine dew is on about as if i could find tdis for that money i would buy em and sell em on again for a profit i tell ya, i was looking at buying a cheap 200tdi e.g ex farm vehicle for about £3000 and then adding the bits on it and getting it sorted for challanges by spending a about another 4 grand just on basics so i could compete in the novice challanges!!! then when i got a bit more experince i would start adding more stuff i.e better lockers etc etc better winches but i have put it all on hold as i get married next year  :D  :D  :D

[TechnoTurkey]

If you want a ratty one to do up my 90 may be available...

[Porny]

Roughly the 90 I'm building from scratch has cost me about £8000.

For that I have a brand new (to be galvanised) Chassis, full 2003 TD5 running gear - engine, gearbox, a set of Td5 axles (with TC and ABS etc)  and the ECU's, a complete 2004 Defender 90 Bodyshell (with new type doors etc) all in the same colour and various other bits.

I have a good contact when it comes to running gear etc etc  

Drop me a pm if you want any more info....  and what to buy  

Talking £1000 for Galvi Chassis
About £1000 again for bodywork
£500 odd for engine + Box
£500 odd for Axles/ Drivetrain

Cheaper and (LOTS!) easier to buy a slightly ratty one and do it up.

I'd go a bit higher on the prices, no point in building something with a ratty running gear.  And I don't know what engine and box you reckon you'd get for £500!!!

Depending on the car, buying a knackered one and rebuilding it is just as expensive... but it means you've got an ID then!!

Ian

[smo]

What are the rules for SVA's and reg plates - how much needs to be new to command a new plate (ie: 07) as a Q plate is not overly appealing if i was building from the ground up.

[defenderdan]

I think that one major component can be a 'used' part (ie. recon engine) but everything else must be new to get a current reg number. More than one and you are looking at a Q plate. It would need an sva test

[Porny]

Or rebuild an older 90/Defender...

As long as you fit a 'brand new' chassis and keep the original type suspension and steering then you can keep the ID of the original vehicle regardless of whether you fit different running gear, body etc etc.

From the new DVLA site:

In order to retain the original registration mark, cars and car-derived vans must use:

The original unmodified chassis or unaltered bodyshell (i.e. body and chassis as one unit - monocoque); or a new chassis or monocoque bodyshell of the same specification as the original supported by evidence from the dealer or manufacturer (e.g. receipt).

And two other major components from the original vehicle – ie suspension (front & back); steering assembly; axles (both); transmission or engine.

If a second-hand chassis or monocoque bodyshell is used, the vehicle must pass a an enhanced single vehicle approval (ESVA) or single vehicle approval (SVA) test after which a "Q" prefix registration number will be allocated.

So you could buy an absolute snotter of a 90... break it for spares, buy a brand new chassis from Richards (for example) fit all new panels, later running gear etc etc.  But keep coil springs and original steering set up and you can keep the orignal vehicles ID.
Older 90's (even modified) are cheaper to insure than new cars!

If you built a 90 from scratch using all new parts then:

Where all the parts of a vehicle are supplied new by the manufacturer. Subject to the provision of satisfactory receipts and a certificate of newness these vehicles will be registered under a current registration mark.

Kit cars which have been built using not more than one reconditioned component will also be registered under a current mark. This is subject to the provision of satisfactory evidence that the component has been reconditioned to an "as new" standard. An ESVA, SVA or MSVA test will be required.

Seems a lot more hassle to me.....


Ian

[extreme90]

What I was aiming at is sort of Disco 200tdi Territory.

If you're doing that, I'd build a 100", Not a 90.

100 inch is no good for challenge events unless its specialised in rock crawling  :lol:

jus to help not 2 rant

so far to build my challenge 90 from scratch it cost me 6 grand with all the mods
danny

[CJ]

... Jerry T started building a challenge spec truck in one of the 'rags' with a origonal budgit of 10K, when i last spoke to him he was way over that lol

I suppose it depends how far you want to go with it... what about buying a rolled defender so youve got the id and parts ?

[smo]

Yes, but he went 3 link and stuff which is a great way to blow your wad for little advantange IMHO - i rekon clever (2" lift + long dampers set up correctly) suspension and lockers will get you further than massive travel with no weight on the wheel thus no traction.

A rolled vehicle would be ideal...finding one isnt so easy.

[defenderdan]

A rolled vehicle would be ideal...finding one isnt so easy.

Take your anti roll bars off then find a roundabout, Keep going around gradually picking up speed. It won't take long and hey presto one rolled td5 90. And you'll get first option on the buy back. :lol:  :lol:





Sorry :oops:

[smo]

LOL - i'd like to be alive when i do it, or at least not damaged like the vehicle will be!

[Porny]

... Jerry T started building a challenge spec truck in one of the 'rags' with a origonal budgit of 10K, when i last spoke to him he was way over that lol

In theory yes... but don't forget what he what he does for a living   (i.e. please, have this for free to test on your Land Rover)

... what about buying a rolled defender so youve got the id and parts ?

The only problem with buying a crashed Land Rover is the fact it will always be on VCar... meaning that it will never be worth as much, and in case of a insurance payout, they will pay out a lot less as the vehicle is not worth anywhere near the same as a similar non damaged vehicle.  If you're planning to keep the Land Rover for a while then this isn't really a problem.

A rolled vehicle would be ideal...finding one isnt so easy.

 Really, will pm you phone number shortly.

Take your anti roll bars off then find a roundabout, Keep going around gradually picking up speed. It won't take long and hey presto one rolled td5 90. And you'll get first option on the buy back.  

But if you did that, the insurance company 'could' refuse to pay out, unless you've told them you've removed them.  And you need to try a lot harder than just going around an island fast (unless your stupid)....

A Defender 90 just understeers when pushed hard into an island (i.e. fails save), unless you happen to lift off - then you get lift off oversteer.... not that I'd every do that


Ian

[smo]

Lift off overstear is fun!!

Its a tricky one, either buy a 90 TD5 truck and mod it, buy a rolled one and fix/mod it, build from scratch, or buy an old donor vehicle and fit new engine/fix and then mod it...

argh! decisions decisions...

[defenderdan]

Take your anti roll bars off then find a roundabout, Keep going around gradually picking up speed. It won't take long and hey presto one rolled td5 90. And you'll get first option on the buy back.  

But if you did that, the insurance company 'could' refuse to pay out, unless you've told them you've removed them.  And you need to try a lot harder than just going around an island fast (unless your stupid)....

I wasn't actually being serious :roll:

[Porny]

I wasn't actually being serious :roll:

I know....  

[Porny]

Its a tricky one, either buy a 90 TD5 truck and mod it, buy a rolled one and fix/mod it, build from scratch, or buy an old donor vehicle and fit new engine/fix and then mod it...

argh! decisions decisions...

All comes down to how much you want to spend....

Early Td5's (1999) can be picked up for around £6000 (i've seen them go for under £5000)... but for this sort of money you'd be getting something a bit battered (not that it would matter to much if being used off road), high mileage stuff, or just generally knackered.  There are some bargains to be had though if you look.

Buying a crashed one.... you'd get a much later model for your money, but you must then add the cost of repairing (plus leaving a bit more for reparing stuff you didn't notice) - it also depends if you are doing the work, or paying some one else.

Building one from scratch, for the same sort of money as buying a ropy Td5, you could build a tidy example on a galvanised chassis.  But again, depends if you are doing the work or paying some one else (if you want to pay someone, let me know )

Then on top of that you've got all the extras, roll cages, locking diffs etc etc.  

I'd personnally build from scratch, but buy an older motor first to break so you get a legit ID.  

My basis would be a chassis from Richards Chassis - but one done the same as Jerry Thurstons Project 90 (has some very nice little touches)

Then a roll cage from one of the usual suspects (Exact Fabrications, QT or North Off Road).

A QT weekender suspension kit, but with standard height springs (the above chassis has a 2" lift built in) - but running GAZ dampers rather than ProComp if I had the money. (though there are other nice kits - like Gywn Lewis' - but I like the external front dampers and the dislocation cones on the QT one)

A nice Td5 running gear with the ECU tucked up out of the way...

Then buy a complete Td5 bodyshell.

And the usual winch, locking diffs etc etc.

Etc etc.  

And you'd end up with a well spec'ed motor


Ian

[smo]

Thats pretty much what i'm after Ian, obviously on the same wavelength.

Ideally i'd like to do most of it myself, and there is no reason why i shouldnt really. I've got a degree in engineering and am pretty mechanically minded so it would be a learning curve but what better way to do it!

I'd like to keep the cost down to approx 10K (less if poss!!!), this is so that i dont run up any debt after selling my CSW and clearing my outstanding loan.

Spec wise like you say:

Galv chassis (unless using a donor one)
TD5 engine & running gear (with HD halfshafts etc)
Lockers front and rear
Roll cage
Truck body
35's
Usual extras....

If that could be done for 10K then fantastic, however i fear not with all new bits which means Q plate which i dont like the idea of, so a rolled/crashed donor TD5 would be ideal then keep its ID and work from there building it up.

There is a chappy selling a whapping 5.7l (i think) V8 and Portals on devon4x4 which is tempting but probably overkill me!

[PUX]

now this i like....something to aim for build wise 8)

[Porny]

Thats pretty much what i'm after Ian, obviously on the same wavelength.

Ideally i'd like to do most of it myself, and there is no reason why i shouldnt really. I've got a degree in engineering and am pretty mechanically minded so it would be a learning curve but what better way to do it!

I'd like to keep the cost down to approx 10K (less if poss!!!), this is so that i dont run up any debt after selling my CSW and clearing my outstanding loan.

Spec wise like you say:

Galv chassis (unless using a donor one)
TD5 engine & running gear (with HD halfshafts etc)
Lockers front and rear
Roll cage
Truck body
35's
Usual extras....

If that could be done for 10K then fantastic, however i fear not with all new bits which means Q plate which i dont like the idea of, so a rolled/crashed donor TD5 would be ideal then keep its ID and work from there building it up.

There is a chappy selling a whapping 5.7l (i think) V8 and Portals on devon4x4 which is tempting but probably overkill me!

10k interesting....

I wouldn't really want a Q plate, but buying a latter damaged 90 isn't that cheap, and you've always got the problem of it being on VCar, so will always show up as an insurance write off.

I'd personally buy an old snotter, like a B/C/D reg and break it for bits...

Then scrap the chassis and buy a brand new in its place (must be original spec and brand new - with receipt)

So basically you’re left with a few bits and pieces and a VIN plate and thus ID.

Following the guide lines on the DVLA website, to keep the original ID of vehicle:

order to retain the original registration mark:

cars and car-derived vans must use:
The original unmodified chassis or unaltered bodyshell (i.e. body and chassis as one unit - monocoque); or a new chassis or monocoque bodyshell of the same specification as the original supported by evidence from the dealer or manufacturer (e.g. receipt).

And two other major components from the original vehicle – ie suspension (front & back); steering assembly; axles (both); transmission or engine.

If a second-hand chassis or monocoque bodyshell is used, the vehicle must pass a an enhanced single vehicle approval (ESVA) or single vehicle approval (SVA) test after which a "Q" prefix registration number will be allocated.

So if you have a brand new 90" chassis, which is still coil sprung (so keep the original type suspension) and still has the same steering box set up then you can keep the original ID of the vehicle regardless of what other components are used.

This means the engine could be replaced with a Td5, the gearbox replaced with a R380 and you can even run Td5 axles.  Then body work wise, it doesn't really matter what you use.


IMHO this is a much easier route than trying to register a new build (which would be classed as a kit car, so might have insurance complications) or rebuilding a crashed Land Rover that is recorded as being an insurance write off.  

Older Land Rovers are also cheaper to insure, esp. if they are modified.



Ian

[smo]

So Ian - do you think its possible on 10k?

PUX - Looks nice doesnt it :D

[Porny]

So Ian - do you think its possible on 10k?

PUX - Looks nice doesnt it :D

If your doing the work yourself, and you look out for bargains then you should be able to.

What you planning on doing then??  Rebuilding and older 90 or building one from scratch and having it on a Q plate or trying to register it as a new build... as this will affect the cost!!


Ian

[PUX]

its tastey aint it smo............. when i was looking i was just looking for a run of the mill 300tdi truck cab maybe a little untidy as long as the chassi rear cross memeber and bulk head were ok that was going to be my starting point and then go for i think porny said it something like the weekender kit and build from there as at the end of the day i was not sure if the challenge scene was going to work for me i reakon all in all getting a truck semi ready for the novice stage was going to set me back about 7-8grand :D

[CJ]

PUX, that truck sweet mate... any idea if he sold it in the end?

You got any further with your ideas smo... im thinking of going down the same route  :twisted: