Chat & Social > The Bar - General Chat
A crushing blow
Skibum346:
--- Quote from: "att" ---
I too, am most impressed with the conduct of the posters on this topic.
It is nice to be on a forum where there is no need for things to get too personal, and where people are not constantly picking up bad spelling.
I have been a member of many forums where such a debate would have descended into petty name calling and worse.
I would just like to say thankyou for the understanding and tolerence that has been shown for what I have posted, it is nice to agree to disagree without the personal and analytical stuff that occurs on many forums on the net.
--- End quote ---
Without influencing the fact that we disagree....
=D> =D> =D> =D> =D> =D>
=D> =D> =D> =D> =D> =D>
=D> =D> =D> =D> =D> =D>
=D> =D> =D> =D> =D> =D>
Skibum346:
--- Quote from: "drmike" ---[Trusting the police is a side issue
--- End quote ---
I don't believe it is a side issue. It is clear from the posts made by some of the people on here that they do not trust the police to provide the evidence necessary for these laws to be enforced.
the key issue in all of this discussion is that we are talking about a law that has gone trhough due process and an automatic penalty has been decided.
If a driver was stopped on the highway for ignoring a red light by a police officer who was not equipped with a video camera (whether in a car or on foot) are we really saying that the individual should not suffer the appropriate penalty?
Yes, we do need to be aware of the old Roman saying "Sed quis custodiet ipsos custodes?", who guards the guards?. But society needs a method of enforcing the laws that those elected to do so, have passed (whether we, the minority agree or not). The police service is that organisation.
There are safeguards in place, I'm sure TERMINUS can quote eloquently on the processes he has to go through when providing evidence for this kind of offence. And again, this penalty does not mean there is no recourse to the courts, not in this case I suspect the criminal court, rather the civil court.
Skibum
rangerider:
re: accidentally making a wrong turn from a boat.
As I understand the relevant legislation, the police CANNOT immediatetly impound your vehicle. You must be warned and given a chance to rectify the problem (get back on the byway, trun the stereo down, stop being an obstruction, whatever you are doing wrong).
It is only if you fail to do so, or (the only grey bit in my mind) the officer believes you will continue to commit the offence, or you commit the same offence again later that the full powers of the act come into play.
Skibum346:
--- Quote from: "rangerider" ---re: accidentally making a wrong turn from a boat.
As I understand the relevant legislation, the police CANNOT immediatetly impound your vehicle. You must be warned and given a chance to rectify the problem (get back on the byway, trun the stereo down, stop being an obstruction, whatever you are doing wrong).
It is only if you fail to do so, or (the only grey bit in my mind) the officer believes you will continue to commit the offence, or you commit the same offence again later that the full powers of the act come into play.
--- End quote ---
Just to be clear (I posted a link earlier to the specific legislation) the power to confiscate and crush a vehicle (two or four wheeled) only exists where driver of said vehicle is unable to produce the necessary documentation (Tax, MOT, Insurance etc). In the context of this thread, the bike was not designed for road use and is therefor un-insurable, un-taxable and would never have been granted an MOT. If it had been possible to obtain all the relevant documents for the vehicle and the driver subsequently did (and they were valid for the timne at which they were stopped by the police) then their vehicle would be returned to them.
Again, in this case, as the vehicle was not bilt for road use, there was no need for a period of 7 days to be given for the driver to produce.
Skibum
Bob696:
Yeap that about sums it up to be totally honest. By no means is it every officer or indeed the majority but there are enough to taint all of them.
Here are some examples of my dealings with the police. These are personal experiences NOT anecdotal or friends of friends etc.
1) Being assaulted on my doorstep by a drunk. Karen calls 999. Nothing happens. I calm the drunk down rather then beating the crap out of him and he wonders away. 15mins later he returns and starts it up again. Another 999 call, this time I man handle him away from the door.
An hour later we get a call from the police to see if "everything is all right" With a promise they would send an officer around to get a statement. Never turned up.
2) A drunk driver (I assume) ran into the side of our parked car which was off the road in parking bay. This was about midnight. I ran outside and flagged down a police car that was passing. I pointed out the guy who was legging it around a corner and down an ally. The 2 officers inspected the scene then moved the drunks car out of the road. They then spent over an hour in our living room checking out our insurance and other stuff. They even had the nerve to ask if we had been drinking! At no time did they attempt to chase this guy. The 'drunk' came back in the morning and drove off in his car. The police tracked him down after much badgering by us but told us "He denied it and there is nothing we can do. Besides you have fully comp insurance, we checked".
3) 9.30 on a friday evening I was walking along a pavement when I was run over by a car pulling off a pub carpark, the guy wondered what he had hit so he reversed, over my leg. 3 days in intensive care with a head injury and unable to walk for a week afterwards and off work for 5 months returned to work part time for a further 6 months. I employed a solicitor to pursue claims for damages and (as instructed by BT to recoup their losses as they had paid me my full wage) he obtained all the witness statements from the police. The only person who was a witness that didn’t have his job listed was the driver and it turned out he wasn’t breathalyzed. My solicitor dug more and found out he was a serving police officer. The police also refused to take statements from my 2 friends who were 10 yds behind me at the time as they were "not disinterested parties". My solicitor pushed more and more over the months and was stonewalled at every turn. This included the 2 investigating officers going on a rugby tour of New Zealand for 3 months and the records of the incident could not be found. It was getting me down so much (and Karen had just had Michael) that after 2 years I told the solicitor to drop it and just get what he could.
4) Being stopped from entering a village because I was on a motorcycle. This was later challenged in court (the police had also stopped a solicitor on the same day) and the chief constable was reprimanded for abusing his power. Turns out he had a friend in the village who didn’t like all those hooligans riding through his village
5) Coming home from a bike rally we encountered a road block. All motorcyclists were waved over to the side. Cars vans etc were waved through. I was given a rectification notice for faulty fork seals (there was a ring of mud half way up the forks) within the hour I was at an MOT station as it was due in the next week anyway and the bike passed first time. I was with 3 other bikers, Karen was passed, Steve got a fine as his number plate was 5mm too narrow and John got a fine as his number plate bulb was faulty.
6) We owned an empty house that we were doing up for sale and at the time I owned a Peugeot 205 that had a blown head gasket and we parked it outside the house in a parking bay. It had been confirmed earlier with the council that this was indeed off the road and this was pre SORN days. The tax ran out although it still had 6 months MOT and next door complained to the police. Despite it being registered at the house it was parked outside of they came and lifted it one week after the tax expired. We produced the letter from the council and we were told we could have it back from a pound that was 30 miles away. Returning it would be at our own expense. Britania recovery wouldn't/couldn't help us as it was in a pound and given that we had only paid £200 the cost of moving it was prohibitive (none runner remember). So we told them they could have it/crush it whatever. They then tried to bill us for disposal of the car. Told them to take me to court for it and not heard anything since.
Trust the police? Not a damn chance of it. Oh and I have never been in trouble with the police not even as a kid. Never been arrested or even got as much as a parking ticket or points on my license. I would no more trust the police force as I would a complete stranger in the street.
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