2" lift verses spacers

[timberdog]

I will be in a postion to buy a 2" lift at the end of this month what i want to know for about £200 what is the best set ??

Also what would spacers be like in comparison?

When fitting a 2" lift what is the step by step process to follow to enble fitment?

[v8kenny]

Unless you are upgrading the springs and switching to gas shocks stick with spacers - a fraction of the cost and easier to fit
Ran spacers on my 110 with 255/85 tyres and had no probs and have 2 inch lift kit (bearmach blue springs & pro comp shocks) on 90 with same tyre size again with no probs
I would say you maybe lose a wee bit of articulation with spacers against lift but not so vague on the road - depends what you feel suits you best

[Bob696]

Tips
See if you can get the nuts off the turret securing ring before starting the job. 4 out of the 8 of mine sheared and it was a pain running around getting new rings (and nuts, get them at the same time they are some wierd size)

[timberdog]

so if i bought 2" lift and spacers and ran big tyres their would be no issues with problems then or am i missing it??


And were is the best to get soma spacers from and lift?


Also what size tyre is the maximum?

[the invisible dog]

Bought my 1" spacers from Mill Services a while back
Dead easy to fit, no further mods necessary and quite happy on 235/85/16 Grizzlies  :D
Don't seem to have lost any articulation and everything still straight

With 2" aren't you gonna need to change dampers, add longer hoses and think about castor correction?

[timberdog]

Confused now can somone help with this i explanation?? :oops:

I want the get maxium lift combining Springs /Shocks and spacers /Tyres?

[Budgie]

How large do you want to go? MM4x4 do upto a +3" lift kit and do a +4" for the Discos. These kits have springs, shocks, dislocaion cones, brake lines, check staps, bump stops & H/D spring retainer plates.

I used to run my 90 with 235x85x16 tyres on standard springs and gas shocks without problems, these are about 32" dia.

A few things to remember:
1. The higher you go on the suspension then the higher the CofG and the easier it'll fall over.
2. The springs are rated to cope with the height they were designed for, by adding spacers you stand a chance of making the vehicle "roll" more when cornering.
3. As you raise the height of the suspension, either with springs or spacers, you alter the geometry of the steering so it'll feel loose and tend to follow the lines in the road (tramlining) and the self centring will be less pronounced. This can be cured by fitting caster correction radius arms but these increase the angle that the propshaft U/Js operate at and set up a vibration so you also need to put a Double Cardan front propshaft on from a TD5 Defender to stop this.
4. Larger tyre effect the overall gearing of the vehicle and if you go too large then you find that it'll struggle to get up hills in 5th, you'll be doing 30MPH in 3rd or 4th and off-road you won't have a low enough gear to safely cope with hills. Also your speedo will read slow. You can alter this gearing by fitting new ring & pinions with a different ratio in both diffs.
5. Larger tyres can also reduce the turning circle unless you get the wheels with right offset or use wheel spacers. With standard offset they foul on the radius arms and sometimes the inside of the tyre will hit the suspension turret if you get into a crossaxle situation, ripping a nice hole in your tyre!  
6. If you're raising the suspension, by whatever means, it's safest to put longer brake flexies on the front & rear, the last thing you want is for the axle drop to rip you brake lines out!!
7. A set of extended bump stops is also a good idea, they stop the tyres hitting the inside of the wheel arches.

There, I hope that lot helps.  

[timberdog]

I used to run my 90 with 235x85x16 tyres on standard springs and gas shocks without problems, these are about 32" dia.


So if i fitted above Tyres with 2" spring spacers and spacers to the wheel Hubs would this be ok??

Sorry for all the Dumb questions but i am crap with this stuff

I have Colways fittted at the moment and despite what people say they have served me well off road are their any other Chunky MTs i could consider that wont break the Bank? and any good links for them

[Budgie]

I didn't have any spacers on my 90, it was just standard springs but I fitted ProComp ES9000 shocks to tighten up the suspension a wee bit for off-road. If you've got the standard rims with the 205R16 tyres then you may think about getting new rims but they don't need wheel spacers for the 235x85x16 tyres. There are plenty of places that do wheel & tyre packages.

The best thing to do is go back to basics and ask:
"What do I intend to do with my Landy?"
Off-road? How severe - greenlaning or competions?
Just want it to look cool but not much off-road?
How much am I willing to spend on it?

The best thing to do for the tyres is to get one of the Land Rover mags and have a look through the adverts then check their websites or ring them up for the prices, or keep an eye on Ebay.  

Colways are ok, for a remould, bit noisy on the road but ok off it.
I've had BFG's, General Grabbers (2 sets & on the Disco now) Colways, Goodyear & Tacoma (don't go there - no grip on a wet road!! ) and for price and performance I'd say the General Grabbers are the best but others will say BFG's. BFG's are very good but a bit more expencive. The sky's the limit with tyres as are the sizes so you need to be clear about what YOU want before you start. You may find that you get a better choise by also looking at 15" rims as that brings in the American sizes like 33"x12.5x15 etc. These are easy to work out the size as it's 33 inch dia by 12.5 inch wide with a 15 inch hole in the middle.  :D

As for spacers: Personally, I wouldn't even consider them. If you want to keep the axle articualtion then you have to get extended shocks for the rears & do the brake flexies anyway and you are spacing springs that may need replacing in a year or so. With the price of the lift kits you're better off getting the correct springs for the job with a good set of shocks. You can get them from +1" to +3" for the same price!

[timberdog]

well i want to Greenlane most weekends nothing Savage but good clearance for ehrn i need it..

I also am worried about Diffs getting a smack off road i had a good knock a couple of weeks ago ..

Also the cool factor comes into it all bit it a Tad silly :oops:

But mainly to be able to clear those deep ruts ..And i know you shuld read the path and drive accordingly but still the same

I loked at MM4X4 and they do a good lift kit  with Dislacation cones for £300 ??

Basicly i have about £450 to spend for lift and Tyres so on a budget any suggestions or links for both Tyres and Lift

Ps thank you for taking the time to explain to me so far :oops:

[Budgie]

235x85R16 Colways on Formula 4x4's site are nearly £200 for a set of 4. So you could go for them and get a +2" lift kit from Paddock Spares for £228 but that's only for springs & shocks but it's within budget.  

That leaves you with about £70 spare for the brake lines, bump stops, new front turrets retaining rings etc.    

It's worth speaking to a few of the places like Paddock & MM4x4 cos you may get the stuff a little cheaper if you get it all from the one place.  :D

[timberdog]

Budgie thats a good combo matey were on the tyre page does it say the size?

[davidlandy]

if u go for the m&m 2" lift kit you will need re/dis location cones as the rear springs tend to pop.  I think that the rear springs are quite stiff.

[timberdog]

Could try these for tyres??

http://www.sowdentyres.co.uk/greenway-tyres.html


and paddocks for springs or package with dislocation cones on MM??


Come on lads i have got to get this right

[timberdog]

any more advice ??

[Budgie]

Budgie thats a good combo matey were on the tyre page does it say the size?

Here you go, just click on the "235" link.  

I like the Anacondas but make sure you check the speed rating on them before buying.

Paddocks also sell re/dis-location cones for the rears.  

[timberdog]

I have sent an email about Anacondas they look pukka for my budget or Colways??

The 2" lift kit with dislocation and Brake Hoses or do i just buy 2" Spacers???

any other view points welscome and advice

[drmike]

Just to be a wet blanket - I bought my 90 with a +2" lift and it was pretty badly set up, not as good as the suggestions made here. I went back to tsnadrd springs and coincidentally +2" shocks with 235 85 tyres and it worked much better. With the lift it felt all tippy toppy which I didn't like at all.

With standard spirings and longer shocks I have articulation, a sensible centre of gravity, the bigger tyres rub the radius arms but only because I wound in the steering stops.

So, I'd ask what's wrong with the springs and shocks you have now? The springs should be fine and you might get better performance from some new shocks then again you might not. If you fit longer shocks you'll get more droop.

If it were me I'd get the bigger tyres and see what it felt like. I bet it's just fine then you can put the balance of your budget to other kit.

I can't recall do you need new rims? With the 235 85 tyres I got some 8 spoke with a reasonable offset and they seem to work well giving a reasonable turning circle but I compete in trials so that's important to me.

As I recall the speed rating of the Anaconads is quite low, I went for Atacama which is a diamond pattern but for green laning I'd have thought a macho style would be a great compromise as the more aggressive treads are terrible on road.

Mike

[timberdog]

Cheers mate that seem sensible i will try Tyres firts then but wont they catch on Body without lift??

Also how wil i be able to tell if i need new rims as the came with the landy and they have 235x70x16 on at the mo??

Sorry for all the questions

[drmike]

Maybe I'm getting muddled but 235 85 is roughly 750 16 which is an optional fitment on a Defender so I don't expect anything to touch the bodywork and it doesn't seem to.

I've given it a real work out at trials and as far as I know nothing has touched the body work (apart from trees).

Rims: Most but not all 8 spoke have a suitable offset, Disco steels don't the stanadrd 90 rims don't so you may need to budget for 8 spokes. Someone mentioned Sowden tyres, they're helpful as are Tyres Direct or indeed one of the Simmonite girls has her own company now and she was very helpful.

Anyway turning circle may not be important to you you as you are green laning while in competition you need the best turning circle you can get so it's worth money. So maybe you should be more concerned about which tread pattern is best and most agressive is not always best.

You can get an idea of offest by measuring the depth of the 'dish' by laying a straight edge across the diamete of the rim (not the tyre) and measure distance from edge to where the studs poke through. Measure your depth and compre to some 8 spoke wheels.

Mike

[timberdog]

Right 17" from rim edge across and about 7" from rim to stud..

[Budgie]

If you've got 235x70R16's on there now then 235x85R16's will fit on your rims, they should be 7Jx16 rims.
Have a look HERE for tyre size info.  

[timberdog]

Budgie

First off thank you for being so helpfull and respectfull of lesser knowledge people like me :oops:

and the rest of you it shows what this forum should stand for

right time to way up options then

[timberdog]

Right i have listned to all suggestions and i think i would try Tyres first and see how i go..

As i am told that Fitting 235x85x16 Tyres should fit on my Rims and no issues with rubbing etc i am trying to keep the pennys down as well and why spend if no need so i am gonna fit one of these so next question which one:

COLWAYS


MACHO



ANACONDA


GRIZZLY

[Budgie]

I'm always happy to help out Timber Dog, experience comes from learning and I've learned through trial and error over the years so if I can save you some of the errors then other can learn as well.  :mrgreen:

Tyres:
The Colways (top) I know have good on & off road manners.
I Don't know about the other two but I remember being told the Anaconda's are excellent off-road but shake your teeth out on-road and the speed rating is low, which you don't want if you use the 90 on Motorways etc!!

[range17]

I have greenway machos on my defender and they are great ,brought them from sowden tyres very nice bloke !

[timberdog]

how are you finind the Machos?

[Pike]

ive got machos on mine from sowden tyres,good tyre but they dont wear very well on road,you gets wot you pay 4 but I might try colways next time,just put a 2" lift on mine 2 day drives a bit different,doesnt corner as well as it used to............by the way the guy at sowden tyres is very helpful.

[drmike]

When I ran 235 85 Machos on the Range Rover they seemed to wear just fine and handle well. I think it may depend when they are made and what carcas they use.

I also got some very good and very cheap macho style tyres from a guy in Malvern - I think they were Sahara brand. They gripped very well and were good on road. Just a bit small for my taste otherwise I would have kept them. They were quite different to the Greenway Machos.

Don't forget speed rating! Your insuance is invalidated by running tyres that are rated too low for the vehicle, not the way you drive it. Promising not to go over 55 mph is no good!

Mike

[timberdog]

I dont know i want good tyres for lanes but also want to be legal ish??

Colways??????????????????????