It Won't Go!!!!

[Hovis]

I've picked up the new jeep and it looked pretty good. Didn't look quite so good after Martin went round finding holes with a hammer, but still better than the last couple i have had!! I bought it as a non runner and after 2 days of faffing it is still a non runner

It has a spark and there is fuel and air getting in. Timing is fine, compression we think is ok (90/90/80/90) so we assume the head gasket is ok. It has tried once or twice to fire but that’s it. So, poor old Martin is running out of ideas.

He has said it may have a cam shaft sensor and that could be kaput, but he doesn't know if it does? We are going to change the distributor this evening and see if that sorts it other than that we don't know what it could be.

Any ideas? Answers on the back of a post card......or here.....

Me x

[Evilgoat]

On the Vitara the position sensor is in the distributor, so you may crack it by changing that.

Off top of my head I cant think of anything. If its been stood a while have you considered stale fuel?

[Hovis]

It's been stood for about 5 months and from what i can gather because of this fault. It's got new plugs, cap and leads and the timing was well out from where he had been playing. We chucked in some new fuel just in case though. I've got a can of easy start see if that helps it along but I’ll change the distributor tonight if it doesn't.

[Evilgoat]

Cant really suggest much owt, Audi is EFi, fully managed and says things like 'TPS Fault' when it goes wrong. First time I looked at the suzuki engine I just stood there and thought 'Oh [!Expletive Deleted!]'  :D Been a while since I've done anything this low tech.

I'd guess if he put the timing out then thats probobly not the cause. Although maybe mechanical timing on the camshaft, did he mess with the cambelt?

Anything else would point to the car methinks, in which case it may well start on the easystart and die after a few revs.

[Hovis]

We've changed the carb for one i know works, an old one i replaced with a webber, and checked the cambelt, timing etc and it's ok. It was 180 degrees out when we started.

[Evilgoat]

let me know how you go, theres a forum someplace I posted to when the sidekick exploded and they were a great help, I'll see if I can find the url.

[Popeye]

let me know how you go, theres a forum someplace I posted to when the sidekick exploded and they were a great help, I'll see if I can find the url.

It could be http://www.difflock.com/ give these guys and gals a try

[prowler]

Are the leads on the correct way ?? not being funny m8, but have watched people put new dizzy caps on and not checked which way the leads go.
Fresh fuel !!
good spark !!
timing correct !!
plug gaps correct !!
leads on correct plugs !!
fully charged battery !!
Turn engine over in the darkest place you can, look for bright blue light's,you might have a short !!

[Littledan]

hey dude,

was it an easy job of the pic up? if i P.M u will u send me some more in depth pics please?

thanks dan :D

[Hovis]

It’s alive!!!! Well it has a pulse.

We changed the distributor and cap and leads off the pickup and it sort of started and 'ran' for about 30 seconds then died. Not great but at least its a start. We couldn't find a garage that sold easy start last night so I will get some today and hopefully that will help get it going.

When it was running it sounded quite ‘knocky’ but we are hoping that’s because it hasn't run for 5 months. Fingers crossed.

Thanks for the help so far...

[Hovis]

It's died!!!!

We got some easy start and it made no difference! In fact, in the 10 mins we spent playing with it, it didn't fire once. So we decided to do the only sensible thing and went to the pub and had a sociable half........or 2  I've finally made it to work

Tonight Mr Orley is going to change the coil, although we have a spark it does seem a little weak at times, and change the fuel.

If that fails I will actually cry.......

[Evilgoat]

Hell I'm tempted to come and play with this little mystery of yours.

Its coil ignition, there's not that much to actually go wrong :)

[Hovis]

More than welcome to come and play!! Variety of beverages would be made available; tea/coffee and more importantly......beer. Bacon sandwiches on request!

It's got fuel, air, spark and compression........... What does it want!!! It's being to demanding from the start!

[Evilgoat]

Feel like death right now and I cant talk so not gonna happen soon.

take it you did the timing and it was ok? Could be the coil breaking down and giving poor spark I guess.

The fact you've had it going is a mystery too, think through everything you tried last night.

You checked the fuel line BTW to make sure the fuel pump is working?

[Evilgoat]

You guys gotten anywhere with her yet?

[Hovis]

You guys gotten anywhere with her yet?

Not really! It fires but still refuses to run. We changed the coil and fuel. We have found that the mark on the pulley is no where near where it should be!!! The pulley is on right, woodruff key is there, but the mark is about 80 degrees off TDC!!!

I had a thought this morning whilst making my merry way to work. Even though it's been "firing" there has been no smoke from the exhaust. Even when Martin put oil in to the cylinders there was nothing. If there was a block in the exhaust would that stop in running?

The only other thing is to check the cam belt it wasn't changed before it stopped running, just wondering if he had made it jump a couple of teeth or something.

[Hovis]

It ran.......sort of!! \:D/

We towed ot to my Dads house and I bump started it, it was very hard to keep it going, 5000rpm or so!!!. It didn't sound to good. We are going to check the cam belt, although I think i should have checked it first :oops:

I need to sort it, I'm getting depressed      

Thanks for the help so far....

[Evilgoat]

If the belt is that far out I would stop playing untill you are sure its not out. You checked the woodruff key hasnt sheered?

Exhaust Blockage could cause that kind of problem but not sure how you'd go about blocking the exhaust. Disconnect the exhaust after the expansion box maybe. If theres a cat, it may be choked but sure there isnt.

Checked you dont have a major vacuum leak, also might be worth checking crankcase ventilation system and make sure the crankcase isnt being pressurised because of something choked there, long shot but I had a dead Rover 216 that suffered from just that.

[Hovis]

I've had about enough now. Yesterday we had another play. We checked cam belt and low and behold found the cam shaft 180 degrees out! We swapped it over and tried to start it, it wouldn't. We span the distributor 180 degrees and tried again, it started straight away and ran all on its own. After much cheering and trumpet blowing, we put the rocker cover back on as there was now everywhere. We started it up again and it ran quite nicely no nasty sounds or anything. It was at this point we switched it off to put the fan and belts back so we could run it up to temperature, drive it around to check gearbox etc etc. We went to start it again and it wouldn't!!!!!  :(bigangry): It wouldn't even fire. We checked spark and everything was fine with that. Fiddled with timing, although we hadn't moved it from the last time. We even took the fan and belts off, just in case. Still nothing.

We left and went to the pub.

We are now more confused than before and are quite literally out of ideas. I don't get how it can start and run and then not even fire 5 mins after when nothing had been changed.

Hopefully a friend who very wise in the ways of thing mechanical will have a look this week/weekend, but if he can't fix it it'll be an engine change me thinks.

Reward now being offered for information leading to a running engine.

[Evilgoat]

Hmm, still sounds like an engine change is a bit extreme.

how about stripping it of all timing related parts (dizzy, cambelt etc) and all ignition system parts

Then methodically work through and strip /rebuild what you can and put it all back, that way you know its all good.

incidentally I had my Vitara doing odd things, misfiring, cutting out, stalling, refusing to start and notcied that my Ignition lights wernt comming on. Bottom row, last fuse nearest the sterring column was corroded to hell. Tapping it would make the car start untill it vibrated a bit too much, would missfirem cough and dies or them pick up again. new few and cleaned contacts cured it.

If you have a haynes manual you should be able to meter the ignition circuit out, for this an analog meter is better as a needle will show you any odd voltage drops more clearly.

Rich

[Hovis]

It has a spark and there is fuel and air getting in. Timing is fine, compression we think is ok (90/90/80/90) so we assume the head gasket is ok. It has tried once or twice to fire but that’s it. So, poor old Martin is running out of ideas.........

Please note the use of the words "think" and "assume" above. I've heard a saying about assumption being the mother of something and, whilst i can't remember exactly what, they are right.  :oops:  :oops:  :oops:

I have finally found the compression should be 170psi minimum!!!!

As we appear to be a little low on the compression front we will be getting oily fingers at the weekend to try and ascertain why. I'm hoping it only ran last weekend because of the oil we put in the cylinders!

A very big thank you for all the help so far, i'll keep you posted.

[Hovis]

Progress!!!!

Removed the head on Sunday, a little disheartened to find all the valves reached the top of the cylinders. However, the timing mark on the bottom pulley was quite a long way off where it should have been. We took it off and found that it had slipped! The woodruff key was squashed and had damaged the pulley and shaft. We took the pulley and key from the spare engine, we then chemical metalled the key in and repaired the damaged bit of the shaft. Just hope it does the trick! A couple of the valves were leaking too, that's being sorted this week. Should be getting rebuilt this weekend.

I think we are winning.........I think!

[bullfrog]

Sounds daft but have you changed fuel filter . Might be worth deopping the tank and giving it a flush out !
Have you got a manual for it ?
I have and will happily check items for you via net !

[Hovis]

Definitely not a fuel problem. We have checked the fuel lines, filter and fuel itself, there wasn't a lot in there so we put a load of new stuff in. I'm sure it's down to the problem with the bottom pulley and woodruff key, we'll find out at the week end as martin is putting it back together. Fingers crossed  :lol:   :lol:   :lol:

I've got a couple of manuals, i printed one out yesterday, all 480 pages of it!! Decided it would be easier than walking in and out of the house all the time! Thanks for the offer though.

[Hovis]

Hallelujah!!!! It works, and sounds sweet!! I’ve driven it and all the bits seem to work, which is nice.

I stood back and looked at it yesterday and realised how much work there is to do. All the arches are now cut out so is ready for welding, need to do all the chequer plate, get seats in, build bumper, small lift, snorkel, paint it, the list goes on.

Anyway, thanks to everyone for all the help over the few weeks it was greatly appreciated.