Water in the sump - updated 14/01

[Neil Jones]

Today is a sad day for me...

I have spent many days, hours and pounds rebuilding, and the past two days replacing the engine in the Landy (2 1/4 diesel).

But there's a problem...

There is a leak from the cooling system into the lubricating system (theres water in the oil sump!). We ran her and decided to limp home, but alas she overheated and I had to be towed home. As you can already tell this means big problems, we don't know if its the engine short or the cylinder head thats got the leak/hole.

Has anyone else had this problem?  Any suggestions or tips would be EXTREMELY appreciated.  i.e. how to test whether its head or short with the problem.

Thanks in advance. Neil

[luffy]

I'm not that familiar with the diesel engine but I assume it's the same basic design as the petrol.

As far as I know, the only way the oil in the sump can be that badly contaminated by coolant is if a gallery has failed significantly which is probably unlikely or if the head is warped or the head gasket has gone.

I had two head gaskets go on my petrol engine and one failure was between cylinders but the other was close to the oil and coolant galleries.  It wasn't bad enough for cross contamination but maybe you haven't been so lucky.

[hobbit]

Another old problem was pin holing in the cylinder liners, but they sometimes lead to problems in the running of the engine as the coolant will get to the piston head and screw with the combustion

Its all cast iron, if the engine has not had the proper coolant mixture in and has been running on plain water, you know what can happen all too well

[Neil Jones]

mmm... well, cylinder head is coming off tomorrow, going to look for any obvious problems.  If thats unfruitful then will pour water into the rad, till it fills to the top of the engine block.  If it goes down we know the problem is there, if not, then we have to look at the head.

Hoping not to have to take the engine out again, if so, does anyone know the best place to buy a short from?  mcdonaldlandroverengines appear to be the cheapest, will these be of poorer quality?  I'm quite confused at the moment, lets hope it doesn't come to being something too expensive.

[hobbit]

If you check around you will probably find the 2 1/4 engines going for next to nothing, worth getting one and doing a partial strip and check over, good practice for the future

[Neil Jones]

Yes I would, but as I'm away from home at uni and was using borrowed space for the initial rebuild and replacement it's not that viable.

There is a hope that its a crack near the thermostat.  Tomorrow I'm whipping the sump off and am going to pour water in the rad and see which part of the engine it runs out from.  Then decide what to do next.  It's quite infuriating.  Thankfully I bought another car a week before Christmas, as the landy was my everyday vehicle and I have work to get to all this coming week.

[hobbit]

There are substances you can put in the cooling system which specifically seals block cracks, as opposed to the stuff for sealing radiator holes etc, its a ceramic sealant but can be expensive

[Andy the Landy]

We use QUIKSTEEL at work and does a good job  Even repairs radiator fins aswell. :D
Also 'stitched'the engine block on a 1950 Lagonda as the jacket was leaking water - I'll find out what its called when I go back next week  (not cheap though :( )

[Neil Jones]

Today I have taken the sump off, poured water into the rad and nothing, so have just taken the head off, there was a puddle in the front cylinder, and drops in the other 3.  Also the first cylinder had no soot on the piston, whereas the other 3 did.  This takes us to the front, and possibly the gasket.  Going to inspect the head in a mo, just letting lunch go down!

[Neil Jones]

Fitted a different head, genuine Landrover head gasket, bolts with washers on the head and the verdict... It all seems ok!  It's a bit smokey still, but that will hopefully clear with use and proper oil (not refrigeration oil!!) it'll all be good.  Will change the oil and oil filter soon (maybe my dad will tomorrow as I have to go back to uni reasonably early), then we'll see the true result of the rebuild and new engine.

[ian_s]

"a bit smokey" and "series landrover diesel" go hand in hand.
you cant have one without the other :)

[Neil Jones]

"a bit smokey" and "series landrover diesel" go hand in hand.
you cant have one without the other :)

I know that, but the MOT is due soon and we've had a tester who wouldn't pass her before until he could see 'NO' smoke from the exhaust.  That was a nightmare, he was willing to watch her go to scrap unless the exhaust was clear.  We took the head off, replaced everything and took her back - still no.  Then just drove and fiddled with the timing until minimal.  Eventually we got no smoke and therefore a certificate.  Thankfully since then, none of the other testers have said anyting like that.

[hobbit]

You can adjust the pump to loose the smoke, runs like a pushbike though. People often have it off set for the test then back again afterwards

[ian_s]

yeah, the emissions can be a bit of an arse
the tester i go to wanted to see no smoke under acceleration with no load before he'd put it on his tester

oh, and try running some engine cleaner through it
redex (for diesels) or something similarm that worked wonders on mine
i drove it the long way round town to get some miles on it with the cleaner in

also, run it regularly on BP ultimate diesel, thats supposed to clean your fuel system too

[hobbit]

yeah, the emissions can be a bit of an arse
the tester i go to wanted to see no smoke under acceleration with no load before he'd put it on his tester

Change testers

[ian_s]

Change testers

done that too
used to go to a guy in the Medway towns who was known as "dodgy mick"
known as dodgy for a very good reason.
so dodgy he lost his MOT licence thingy

[Neil Jones]

Still looks like bad news, having done that head swap and new gasket it still seems as thought there is a problem, there was water in the oil that was drained out and she seems to be pressurising into the radiator.  

So have been on ebay eyeing up engines, will check out the oil when shes cooled down again, but then might have to post in the wanted section for a sound 2.25 diesel...

[Miniman]

I understand your problem  :x  I had a head gasket go on mine did a new gasket and a few modifications to make it a bit better and then when I first fired it up smoke galore........  I have to adjust the pump next what a pain that is.....