Winches - Electric V Hydraulic

[robbie]

What are the pros and cons of both systems??
and which would be recommended for my Suzuki
Simple question, complex answer no doubt :)

[rod]

Hi rob,

I personally use a milemarker H12 hydraulic winch on my landrover. Pros - extremely powerful, use it all day, pretty much silent running. Cons - alot slower than an electric unless you use a pto driven hydraulic pump, price, wont run without engine.

Electric Pros - Fast, easy to install, Can run without engine running, price
Cons - battery consumption

Personally i love it. The last time i used it i was stuck in quicksand in wales. It took 4 landrovers roped together before i stopped winching them towards me! Might be overkill for the Zuki though.

My ideal set-up would be PTO driven hydraulic front and a Husky electric on the back, which i will get round to at some point.

Hope this helps

Rod

[300+]

When you price up a dual battery setup and all the extras for a leccy winch you are well into the price of a hydraulic winch.

I don't go off road with people with winches. Therefore if I buy one it will be used to pull everybody out. So I need a hydraulic...

However, zooks are pretty light so a leccy one may be acceptable. I'd go hydraulic if it was my money.

Steve

[robbie]

Thanks for the comments chaps, keep em coming. I am leaning towards a Hydraulic but yes, the cost for the Suzi might be prohibitive, although with decent electrics, there isnt much in it.

I hadnt considered it not working if the engine wasnt running... mmhhh still need ot be careful with the deep stuff then.

I am not after get into trouble really, just would feel better if I could get out of it :) if you know what I mean.

Anyone know of a H12 going spare :)

[rod]

You could run the hydraulic winch using an electric ps pump off of something like a citroen saxo. Would let you run it without the engine but would add to costs. Should be some stuffed boy racer mobiles down your local scrappy. My H12 in a diesel so if my engine stops underwater in bu**ered anyway and the plan is to fit a husky to the back so will have both options. As far as i know even second hand H12's go for not much less than new as hardly any come up second hand.

Rod

[euro_weasel]

So how do you run your winch from a pto on a 90" ? i have a 90 and am in the same situation, unsure of how/what winch to put on it.

any adivce would be great,

thanks very much

[Foden34ke12]

Well its depends. I have a warn xp9000i which i bought off ebay ages ago. It works fine with enigine on or off. Loads of power and speed.

Easy to set up. The problem with these winches I find is when people put them on the front of their trucks. Now you may say 'what else do you do with them?'

If you put them on the front of your truck when you drive home from work in the rain... Or you are splashing through the mud the winch is getting wet. This is what breaks them. The bearings and drive gears are not sealed units so they fill with water, rust and clog up.

Plus if you have buried your front end in a mud pool you have buried your winch as well...

I have aqquired a plate which you can mount a winch on and fits into a dixon bate hitch. This means that during the off road session its lives safe and sound in the back of the truck in a water proof box, because you only use a winch probably 1-3 times a day when off roading severely.

When 'you've done it again' you can simple get the winch out of the back. Pin it into place, connect up the power and remote and winch away to your hearts content. Then put it away safe and dry again afterwards. Plus this means that you only need on winch for front and back and even if your mate has a dixon bate on the back use yours. Just make a coil of connection leads in the back of the truck.

Just an idea, more pics to follow

Dave

[muddyweb]

because you only use a winch probably 1-3 times a day when off roading severely.

:shock:

When 'you've done it again' you can simple get the winch out of the back. Pin it into place, connect up the power and remote and winch away to your hearts content. Then put it away safe and dry again afterwards.

My experience with demountable systems is that at least 50% of the time, you can't get the winch on the receiver once you have got stuck.... because it is filled with mud / wedged against a rock / under the bog / any other situation...   best bet IMHO is to stick it on the vehicle before you tackle an obstacle and save yourself a lot of hassle.   Yes, this means you dunk it, but maintenance is the key..   My winch is something like 10 years old and still going strong...  mounted on the front, regularly plunged into all manner of stuff.

[Foden34ke12]

Yeah thats true enough. But it still does mean that at least you can put it in the back on the way home. I guess you gotta try different things. Beside surely if your front is wedged against a rock you wanna go backwards lol?

Its the only option for me lol. I broke the bank buying one winch lol...

Dave

[johnniep]

im quite interested in a demoutntable winch system as thats the next buy for ur rangie , but its a bob'd pickuo and so the winch could be kept in  a waterproof bow in the back, so its still acessable even if it is in a hole, but we have looked towards forlift type plugs front and back for power and then may b 3/4 big bolts on a reinforced pece of box in the bumper, there already 2x4 box so they should be strong enough, have you got any pics of your removable system,
one of the things i agree with robbie, is unlike a lot of the prats out there on challenge event who just wack the winch on and pull there selves up to the punch, i would only want it for recovery, after youve got yourself stuck, i dont see the point in not jus useing a winch when a section could be driven!
any info welcome pleas
cheers
johnnie p

[Foden34ke12]

I'm looking at manufacturing the winch plates. I will get some photos tonight for you. Basically it fits into a standard Dixon bate hitch. Slightly mobile (15 degrees either side maybe). Has big rubber bump stops and a lip where the fair lead goes.

Pics as soon as i can (away with work atm)

Dave

[johnniep]

cheers 4 that, just we were out on sunday doin a challenge event with the local club and we were driveing sections on 50quid remoud westlake semi mud tyres andthere were people winching to places we were driveing and besids there lameness it just hold evri thing up,
cheers again
johhnie p

[Foden34ke12]

I know what you mean.

I am a recovery mechanic in the TA and therefore people don't realise when I turn up the the event that there 4T winch on front and back dosn't impress me because I've done what they are doing in a 63T Challenger with a 50T winch. They presume 'oh hes not a real off roader he drives a suzuki'

I saw one of the tidiest challege 90's (or 100" hybrid, whatever) with all the latest gear cruise past me and my mate in my vit. The driver looked at us as if to say "huh, is that what you plan to drive". Soon he got a bit of a shock when the LSD's kicked in propelling me through the mud section he had just taken 5 mins winching through.  

Half the time i see things that make me cringe because i work with huge winches on Heavy Trucks and therefore safety has to be spot on because a 30mm winch rope with 20T of force behgind it WILL take your head off.

I am appalled at some of the things i see. People who just can't drive so rather than learn to drive just throw money at the problem. They have no idea what they are doing and are a danger to themselves and who they a recovering.

I have a vitara because it was all i could afford, it has remoulds for the same reason. This plate was made for the reason too.

Money can't make you a better driver... that takes practice. It don't matter if you practice in a standard sj with road tyres or a raised to the roof Defender Hybrid Thingy. The sooner people get that the better...

Dave

[muddyweb]

Money can't make you a better driver... that takes practice. It don't matter if you practice in a standard sj with road tyres or a raised to the roof Defender Hybrid Thingy. The sooner people get that the better...

Couldn't agree more.  Just to clarify, I'm not knocking demountable winch systems, but they have their cons just as they have their pros.

I also think there is a lot of inverse-snobbery that goes on.. there are some very good drivers about who also happen to drive "raised to the roof Defender Hybrid Thingys".. the two aren't mutually exclusive ;-)

I know where you are coming from about cringing though....   I've spent many years as a recovery marshal and as a rigger... and sometimes I have to just walk away when I see people doing recovery... else it wouldn't be the winch wire that would take their head off ;-)

[Foden34ke12]

No I didn't mean that lol. I know some people are very clued up indeed. they started 5 years ago with a normal 90 and things had gone on from there. they have built there truck up in time.

Like I went off roading a few times and found that my rear drums where being worn by the dirt. So i did a rear disc brake conversion. Lesson should be learnt like that.

I worry about people that just inject money because 'thats what other people do'. They buy a snatch block when they don't know what it is for...

Dave