Land Rover Owner -Tough Choice article Defender vs Santana

[tenpolequint]

Before I had even looked at the article just reading the front cover I knew the magazine would blow the horns for the defender, mark the Santana one star/point below the defender on small issues and if the article was realistic enough the Series 3 would come in last. As with all car test of this sort you cant take their decision as the one you would make.
Before anyone starts on me I am not a Santana enthusiast this article was my first look at what it is about. I do not think the article was bad at all in fact the opposite it was very good. The only point I am making is how it would be difficult for a Land rover magazine to say their beloved machine is not best.  Oddly enough I saw a  in the flesh for the first time today. My own choice would be the Defender because I am a Land rover fan and love the looks. The front of the Santana could do with customization. But I do think it is a great machine, it is Landrover based after all. It should be a serious contender for commercial use with its lower price.

[Range Rover Blues]

I've not read the article but I know that in the past Santana have taken the basic LR design and improved on it.  Things like the spare wheel mounting./rear door issue and the gearboxs, plus the split screen/single screen.  Has to be said though, it fell out of the ugly tree this time.

[thermidorthelobster]

The problem with the magazine is that when the Santana has something in its favour (like the interior, which is better), they find some reason to mark it down.  So I agree it was on a hide to nothing really.  It come across as if they knew the outcome at the start and marked accordingly.

So the Land Rover is better because it has modern Traction Control, which is electronic and complicated, whereas the Santana is worse for having a modern interior, which is "plasticky".

If I were in the market for that type of vehicle I'd seriously consider it on the basis of the ones I've seen.  The articulation of the pair o' [bauble] is most impressive.

I think the low depreciation of the Defender is the Santana's Achilles' Heel.

[thermidorthelobster]

Has to be said though, it fell out of the ugly tree this time.

But apart from the grille, it looks just like a Defender!

[Range Rover Blues]

That's enough though for me, it just looks wrong somehow.

[datalas]

Having looked at the santana there are bits which concern me, there are a number of design "features" which will make it blooming hard to repair in years to come (take a gander under the front wings for example) and a variety of other concerns, principly with parts and support etc...

coupled with the fact, with the headlights, grill, silly plastic bits on the wings and roof line, it looks like a series three that someone took to chav's r us to turn it into a 110alike..

all IMHO of course.

[tenpolequint]

All valid points. The link for Satana Motors Sa.http://www.santana-motor.com/SantanaMotor/index.html

But as for the magazine article cussing the Satana vehicle for having more comfortable seats!! No I want back ache after long journeys. :(stoopid):

[thermidorthelobster]

Now imagine that the PS10 had a Land Rover badge on it, and the Defender was made by Santana.  What do you think the results would have been?

I'm sure they'd have found that the Defender wobbled about too much on its coils, and that its electronic Traction Control was no replacement for a decent drivetrain, and that its TD5 engine was weak at low revs.

Then they'd have praised the PS10 for its dependable, proven suspension, greater comfort, better cab layout etc.

I know *all* the Land Rover mags suck up to Land Rover, because they depend on LR's goodwill, but LRO seem to be worse than most - check out how many times they namecheck Roger Crathorne!

[tenpolequint]

I agree if the PS-10 or whatever had a landrover badge and the Defender a Santana badge....

But it would still be ugly and I would go for a Santana defender 90.

[rokcrawlin]

I agree if the PS-10 or whatever had a landrover badge and the Defender a Santana badge....

But it would still be ugly and I would go for a Santana defender 90.

no one has actually looked at the fact it is very repairable in low tech countries and landrover are making great strides away from low tech and leaving a vast gaping hole in the market which santana are now filling, so in reality are actually copycating landrovers early years keep it simple and make it last..............it may be ugly but it is effective dont you think???????????????????????????????????????????

[davidlandy]

I agree if the PS-10 or whatever had a landrover badge and the Defender a Santana badge....

But it would still be ugly and I would go for a Santana defender 90.

no one has actually looked at the fact it is very repairable in low tech countries and landrover are making great strides away from low tech and leaving a vast gaping hole in the market which santana are now filling, so in reality are actually copycating landrovers early years keep it simple and make it last..............it may be ugly but it is effective dont you think???????????????????????????????????????????

agree completely

one of the main attractions of the defender is that it is easy to fix and maintain.  

I ll bet that the next generation defender wont be, so the santana will be there to fill that niche.

[rokcrawlin]

I agree if the PS-10 or whatever had a landrover badge and the Defender a Santana badge....

But it would still be ugly and I would go for a Santana defender 90.

no one has actually looked at the fact it is very repairable in low tech countries and landrover are making great strides away from low tech and leaving a vast gaping hole in the market which santana are now filling, so in reality are actually copycating landrovers early years keep it simple and make it last..............it may be ugly but it is effective dont you think???????????????????????????????????????????

agree completely

one of the main attractions of the defender is that it is easy to fix and maintain.  

I ll bet that the next generation defender wont be, so the santana will be there to fill that niche.

Ican remember when haynes manuals used to tell you how to do a complete rebuild on a motor now they tell you how to drive it to a main dealer lol

[discodaz]

First off I reckon that anyone who uses a Defender commercially, could be better off with the Santana due to the fact that if you run a Defender or Santana into the ground they are probably going to be worth just as much as each other when the time trade in comes, so the Defender will cost more than the Santana to replace, Secondly L-R will price them selves out of the market, leaving Santana waiting in the wings, they've already done it with the new Disco, I know of a few people who can't afford the step up from 3 year old Td5 to a Disco 3 ( one person has had anew Disco every 3 years, from 1990 on & has left L-R behind)
So Land Rover can continue sucking up to yuppies, others will steal sales
doesn't make sense to me

[thermidorthelobster]

It's simply because they make money out of yuppies, not enthusiasts.  They have to go where the money is, and it's basically not with us not, it's with company car owners, managers and directors.

[discodaz]

But my point being that if people who buy these things get a nasty shock
when they come to trade in, they'll go else where & it's Land-Rover that loses another customer, other companies win a new customer, people wont be ripped off.
Also was discussing what a friend thought of his new Freelander at the weekend, this guy was saying that when he went to collect it, a Farmer was at the sales desk enquiring about a new Defender, the salesman couldn't be bothered to get of his backside to see what the Farmer wanted, bet he's got a jap doublecab now.

[Dave]

The standard defender for me looks the biz, looks the best :D even better with out that plastic thing on the front.

[tenpolequint]

Another point. ETC is standard on XS models but is an option on others. One of the major factors with the test comparrision was the LRO journalists kept on plusing the Defender because it has this feature. What if the Santanna chosen had ETC fitted there would not be anything in it other than the Santanna is more comfortable and spacious but looks ugly.

[dimoven]

As i chug along in my pre ford /mass platform, landrover im comforted by the fact  that whatever  happens viz maintanance the global corps dont have me by the balls.
Donn

[thermidorthelobster]

One point to the Defender though is that because the Santana has moved the middle row of seats backwards, so you can get somebody with actual real legs sitting in them without intense pain, they lose a couple of seats in the back, by my reckoning.  I think Santana call the PS10 a 7 seater, whereas the 110 CSW is a 9 or 11 seater, depending on how optimistic you are.

I didn't realise that TC was an option on Defenders, I thought it was standard - you're right that this would make a big difference.  Not a very level playing field then!

[bovaboy]

And of course the Santana has a 2.8 turbodiesel, which LRO admitted was the better engine (of a fashion) which I would be interested to drive to see the difference. Are those leaf springs really as good as coils though?

[MuddyMary]

Not very good with technical stuff and will probably get shouted down here but I quite like the Santana, well the one I saw at Eastnor anyway :shock:

I would have thought that being Land Rover based it should be a pretty good vehicle and lets be honest, everything has down points as well as plus  

[Sider]

Anybody mentioned that Santana used to hold the franchise to build L/Rs in Spain, hence the similarities?

I wouldn't like to compare it to the Defender, since I have no experience with it, but having tried both 88s (original LR and Santana), it wouldn't surprise me if the PS-10 was a mean machine.

[Sider]

Oh, forgot to mention, the Santana has beaten LR and Nissan to supply the next light 4x4 to the Spanish Army(that comes from friends still in the service) and some other countries are testing it, with positive feedbacks (this bit is from santana's website.

[Arightpest]

I hope the Santana goes quicker than the web site any slower and LR might just win. Is this the vehicle that Land rover should be making or is ford pushing it in the wrong way unfortunately we will have to wait and see? Sink or swim profit or losses don’t you just love the Americans and sod the heritage. :(

[TimM]

The Defender has to win, but I must take my hat off to the Santana, if, for nothing else, making it onto the cover of a dedicated Land Rover magazine.

Tim.  8)

P.S. arightpest, if their website is too slow for you, you can borrow my copy if you like.

[Arightpest]

Hello TimothyM

were are you i am in forest town?

Arightpest

Mick

[TimM]

arightpest,

Seen your PM and sent you one back.

Tim.

[Bush Tucker Man]

I looked at a Santana Station Wagon at Masham Steam Rally.
And, yes, it does look a bit odd in comparison to the ubiquitous Defender.
It gains the upper hand( or so it appears) in chassis protection, as that paint looks far tougher (& longer lasting) than a Defender.
The roof is a one-piece moulding - leak resistant??

Internally, the dash is strange to our eyes, again (psychologically) we don't expect it.

A lack of front seat-boxes seem strange as well, the rear seat is further back & actually supports you (unlike the individuals of the 12-seater 110's)

I'm not too sure about the rear cross-member & the lights being in the firing line for trailer hitches & Walls.

Would I buy one?
Head says; 'Yes'
Heart says; 'It's not a (true) Land Rover (but, at least it's not French :lol: )

[muky-kid.]

:D I was looking at one at Billing. And i quite like it.. ok its leaf sprung ( which could be moddyfied ), but it has a good reliable deisal unit and build quality looked better than some new Defenders ive seen knocking around.
If i was buying ide go for a Santanna, good cheap work horse i think.

[rokcrawlin]

:D I was looking at one at Billing. And i quite like it.. ok its leaf sprung ( which could be moddyfied ), but it has a good reliable deisal unit and build quality looked better than some new Defenders ive seen knocking around.
If i was buying ide go for a Santanna, good cheap work horse i think.

how long will it be before someone makes a coilsprung chassis for it??????????????????