Winches Again

[Devon-Rover]

I think I'll stick to my trusty MAP Capstan winch  :lol:  all 4000Ibs on a single line.

Just to clear up the whole superwinch thing.

Currently there is Superwinch LTD based at the abbey road site in tevistock devon ( a whole 7 miles from my house) And then there is the american company Superwinch INC over the pond.

Before there was just the one Superwinch LTD. again at tavistock.

Before that there was FWL, Fairey winches Limited same site as above.

Before that there was MAP, Mayflower Automotive products again at the above site.

Before there was the founder original company Hamiltons Automotive Products. They were based on a site on the main road into tavistock.

Hope that helps. As for these modern new fangled electrical jobbies then who knows, from what i have seen then come up and superwinch seem a better 'affordable' option.

What i will ask is how come after 6 pages and even though the man him self has been mentioned that no one has commented on the Goodwinch range. David Bowyers Reworked versions of the superwinch range. Something i'm not getting here? His twin motored beast was something else when i saw it at malvern, by spec it would give the 8247 something interms of line speed to wonder about.

As for the jap v landy argument Well who knows?

But i'm waiting to see how many pajs etc etc live to be 60 years old? My series 2a is 35 years old will your paj still be going when it's that old? Or will it have gone to the big off road course in the sky whilst the IIA is still trundaling round the place.  :twisted:

[muddyweb]

David Bowyers Reworked versions of the superwinch range. Something i'm not getting here? His twin motored beast was something else when i saw it at malvern, by spec it would give the 8247 something interms of line speed to wonder about.

It would give an out-of-the-box 8274 a run for its money... but then at £2500 plus vat it ought to  :shock:     Put it up against a modified 8274, with twin XP  motors... something like the Gigglepin set up, and it's a whole different ball game...   plus it's less money.     That's assuming of course that David's new winch works for long enough...  on the 2 occasions I saw it there were problems...   jumping out of gear, oil leaking from the side, etc.

Mudlark...  once again, you seem to have chosen a quote from someone with an agenda...  of course Andy from Ruftraks is going to highlight the fact that a wire rope broke....  he sells Plasma !    And I'll echo what the others have said... an M8000 on a g-wagon...   not ideal !

[Mudlark]

Did a Scorpion Challenge event in mine this year.   Drove it home too.   So after all the trolling and gobbing off, is Mudlark saying that he doubts the Paj's ability to complete a novice event intact?

Here's the Disco just coming in to land!  (picture courtesy of www.scorpionracing.co.uk )

Oh no I don't doubt it's ability just don't want it ending up looking like a beat up disco that's all :lol:  :lol:

[Mudlark]

David Bowyers Reworked versions of the superwinch range. Something i'm not getting here? His twin motored beast was something else when i saw it at malvern, by spec it would give the 8247 something interms of line speed to wonder about.

It would give an out-of-the-box 8274 a run for its money... but then at £2500 plus vat it ought to  :shock:     Put it up against a modified 8274, with twin XP  motors... something like the Gigglepin set up, and it's a whole different ball game...   plus it's less money.     That's assuming of course that David's new winch works for long enough...  on the 2 occasions I saw it there were problems...   jumping out of gear, oil leaking from the side, etc.

Mudlark...  once again, you seem to have chosen a quote from someone with an agenda...  of course Andy from Ruftraks is going to highlight the fact that a wire rope broke....  he sells Plasma !    And I'll echo what the others have said... an M8000 on a g-wagon...   not ideal !

I didn't actually choose it I just found it and if you read back I didn't quote the MileMarker one :lol:  :lol: Possibly you're right with the M8000 on a g-wagon and the rope might not have been the original.

I was going to say that Goodwinch was not mentioned due to everyone being a Warn fan on here but you seem to have pre-empted that with your comments as one would expect of a Warn stockist :twisted:  :twisted:  :twisted:  :twisted:


But there again the electric winch spec game is a whole big can of worms when you come to look closely at it with manufacturers at both ends of the price spectrum seemingly wanting to rip you off. Perhaps this is why mechanicals are starting to make a return especially in the challenge circuit?

[Devon-Rover]

Okies then the new twin motor jobby may have been a bad example. But the likes of the X9 varient he sells and the G10 / G12 doesn't seem to gain any notiable coments either way. Do they just keep on going or just not go at all?

If i was gonna get an electric winch i would look for a husky as there isn't any brakes to get major hot when paying out under load, and it is a worm and wheel setup so should the motor go Belly up under load it aint going let go and release. yes it's slow but then a fair reputation seems to have been built from those years it had spent being used on the camel trophy.

[Mudlark]

I think I'll stick to my trusty MAP Capstan winch  :lol:  all 4000Ibs on a single line.

So how do you get on with a capstan?  rumour has it they are purely two man winches But what winch isn't in a challenge  :lol:

[Bulli]

i just cant wait to see this capstan winched shogun competing :shock:

[Mudlark]

i just cant wait to see this capstan winched shogun competing :shock:

It just so happens that I've got a river close by with lots of abandoned sailing thingies on it so capstan winches tend to be cheap :lol:  :lol:  :lol:  :lol:  :lol:

Besides which if I mount a capstan between the front seats I can run two ropes One front and One back but I only have one winch so it's not modified see :roll:  :roll:  :roll:  :lol:

[Bulli]

hmmm, you will need a hell of a lot of strengthening to mount one winch to go either way. It would be diff to the way ibexes do it where they use a snatch block to run round...the chassis needs loads more bracing.
Im not sure how safe that would be... i wouldnt want to be anywhere near it..imagine getting dragged into the car????
just because something is cheap doesnt make it good.

[Devon-Rover]

Yes the capstan can be is a two man  but mainly used for the recovery of the other poor unfortunates who get stuck, one chap just the run the rope out and then to be at the landy to operate it. And your right for self recovery i think it's a bit of a no no, As whilst one chap steers the other has to be out hold the line coming off the bollard. so putting himself in danger by being close to the taught rope.
All capstans though made by MAP / FWL were only a 2,500Ib pull IIRC so then there is more chance of the shear pin going than the rope snapping.
My winch was origanlly on my dad's IIA and he knew the enginers at the time in the early 70's as he was doing testing work for the overdrives. And he told them that he kept breaking shear pins when recovering other landies and once a stuck county tractor.  :shock:
They went away and came back with a special set of shear pins which will take 4,000Ib pull, and to this day my dad still has the certificate to prove that the winch will take the pull. I think we still have piccies of my dad's old landy in the early seventies with the winch in action.
The other bonus is that he got a HD winch bumper to. Made of apporx 6 mill steel I haven't managed to bend it yet. and hitting trees either stops the landy or makes the tree fall over  :)

[Mudlark]

I came across this the other day you might be interested in

Click here to see who[/url]"]

Capstan winches

These are normally engine driven and often perform superbly when all else fails. Their biggest disadvantage is that they are best operated by two people. This is because a second pair of hands is required to tail off the winch, a procedure like that used for operating the sail winches on large yachts. Only a seasoned expert will operate a capstan winch alone and if this is the case, an emergency engine ignition cut-off switch must be fitted so as to enable the operator, who will not be seated in the cab, to shut down the engine if required. I saw a Series One Land Rover fitted with an original Fairey 3000lb-capacity capstan winch haul 14 vehicles across a stretch of axle-deep liquid sand that no vehicle could traverse. The last and fifteenth vehicle proved too much for the small winch and the worm drive stripped. In the same situation, an 8000lb electric drum type would have overheated by the third or fourth vehicle. The rope for the capstan must be stored elsewhere as there is no provision for storing it on the winch.

Note the Hub capstans further down the page as well

Im not sure how safe that would be... i wouldnt want to be anywhere near it..imagine getting dragged into the car????

As safety goes capstans, because of their design are pretty safe winches there is nothing on the capstan to grab until you wrap a rope around it, I've seen them running constantly on a boat before now - crabbing boat that is - and you know what H&S are like.

Possibly not very good in close quarters as I described above but hey what the hell most of the guys on this post think I'm a complete nutter anyway  :lol:  :lol:  :lol:

[Xtremeteam]

a fair reputation seems to have been built from those years it had spent being used on the camel trophy.

But they used warn for a fair few years aswell  :lol:

Oh & it was 99% 8274's


Mudlark........Just admit it you have lost the argument & 8274 warns are the daddy of all winches

[Devon-Rover]

Ok then chaps, calm down. lol.

All winches are equla just some are more equal than others.

[redneck]

rolazuli, i've just followed your link to Tradewinch, how do you rate their own brand of winches  :?:  The HTW9500 would be just about in my budget at a push http://www.tradewinch.com/htw9500.htm I intend to put it on the front of my Pajero (no i'm not going to get into the other debate  :lol: ) It won't be used as a challenge winch but just for the occasional recovery (insurance policy more than anything).
Any comments on this winch   :?:

[Mudlark]

a fair reputation seems to have been built from those years it had spent being used on the camel trophy.

But they used warn for a fair few years aswell  :lol:

Oh & it was 99% 8274's


Mudlark........Just admit it you have lost the argument & 8274 warns are the daddy of all winches

Argument??? Who's arguing??? You have an opinion that you haven't proved,  although not one that I would diminish simply due to that fact. I, on the other hand, am trying (with great difficulty due to the biasassing of other contributers) to form an opinion. Nothing yet is lost, yet little has been gained, if I may say so. :lol:  :lol:  :lol:

[Xtremeteam]

a fair reputation seems to have been built from those years it had spent being used on the camel trophy.

But they used warn for a fair few years aswell  :lol:

Oh & it was 99% 8274's


Mudlark........Just admit it you have lost the argument & 8274 warns are the daddy of all winches

You have an opinion that you haven't proved

the fact that landrover themselves wouldnt fit a a cheap branded winch?
the fact that 90% of those competing at the top level of challange events around the world use warn 8274s with either XP motors (warn) & allbrite solenoids (fitted to SW)  :lol:

[davidlandy]

Capstan winches ?!?!?!?  

Best go for a warn winch, or maybe a superwinch.   they take loads of abuse and you can get the bits for them if they brake or to service them. (important)

Most people who praise some other makes generally havent used them the ways that the challenge boys do.   I just couldnt see a (for example)GEW9000 standing up to some of that grief!

but then again a GEW9000 would be fine for the occasional pull out of trouble, and many people want one just for that.

[redneck]

rolazuli, i've just followed your link to Tradewinch, how do you rate their own brand of winches  :?:  The HTW9500 would be just about in my budget at a push http://www.tradewinch.com/htw9500.htm I intend to put it on the front of my Pajero (no i'm not going to get into the other debate  :lol: ) It won't be used as a challenge winch but just for the occasional recovery (insurance policy more than anything).
Any comments on this winch   :?:

Any comments  :?:

[datalas]

the fact that landrover themselves wouldnt fit a a cheap branded winch?

I would avoid taking that defense, since landrover knowingly fitted lucas electrics to them too :D

[Mudlark]

the fact that landrover themselves wouldnt fit a a cheap branded winch?

Do you really think that's a good point - after all Land-Rover rarely fit anything to their vehicles that stays in one piece or even stays on the vehicle without falling off



I'm off

[Mudlark]

the fact that landrover themselves wouldnt fit a a cheap branded winch?

I would avoid taking that defense, since landrover knowingly fitted lucas electrics to them too :D

Too late - advantage has been taken

[datalas]

Too late - advantage has been taken

Confusious he say "man who live under bridge should avoid getting on high horse lest he come a cropper"

[Bulli]

you couldnt take part in the top level challenges with any of the cheaper winches i have seen in action. I had a GEW 9000...i dont have one now. It was great in as much as it didnt give up other then when attempting to pull a GWAGON(they are made of lead). My xp is way way faster.
The problem with the cheaper winches is the speed or lack of it. The top lads have winches that under no load are much quicker than walking pace...the gew wasnt much quicker than snail pace......

[redneck]

rolazuli, i've just followed your link to Tradewinch, how do you rate their own brand of winches  :?:  The HTW9500 would be just about in my budget at a push http://www.tradewinch.com/htw9500.htm I intend to put it on the front of my Pajero (no i'm not going to get into the other debate  :lol: ) It won't be used as a challenge winch but just for the occasional recovery (insurance policy more than anything).
Any comments on this winch   :?:

Anyone got any comments on whether this winch will fit my requirements  :?:  :?:  :?:  :?:  :?:  :?:  :?:

[Mudlark]

rolazuli, i've just followed your link to Tradewinch, how do you rate their own brand of winches  :?:  The HTW9500 would be just about in my budget at a push http://www.tradewinch.com/htw9500.htm I intend to put it on the front of my Pajero (no i'm not going to get into the other debate  :lol: ) It won't be used as a challenge winch but just for the occasional recovery (insurance policy more than anything).
Any comments on this winch   :?:

Anyone got any comments on whether this winch will fit my requirements  :?:  :?:  :?:  :?:  :?:  :?:  :?:

Hi Red at a guess (which probably mean I'll be put down :roll: ) I'd say that the 9500 is the same as a GEW with just another badge on so you could take your answer from Bulli above OK if you're not going anywhere in a hurry or  don't want to use it for an extended length of time   :lol:  :lol:

[Mudlark]

you couldnt take part in the top level challenges with any of the cheaper winches i have seen in action. I had a GEW 9000...i dont have one now. It was great in as much as it didnt give up other then when attempting to pull a GWAGON(they are made of lead). My xp is way way faster.
The problem with the cheaper winches is the speed or lack of it. The top lads have winches that under no load are much quicker than walking pace...the gew wasnt much quicker than snail pace......

OK so can I take it that hydraulic winches also fit into the slow category as well or are there fast ones?

[datalas]

there are fast ones,  but they aren't cheap and they need to be powered by something, which usually involves a pump (and despite what you may hear a power steering pump isn't enough) and they tend to involve the engine...

it's all swings, roundabouts and possibly small plastic slides

[Xtremeteam]

there are fast ones,  but they aren't cheap and they need to be powered by something, which usually involves a pump (and despite what you may hear a power steering pump isn't enough) and they tend to involve the engine...

it's all swings, roundabouts and possibly small plastic slides

Oh yes

a member on here thought that a PAS pump "might" cope with just powering the winch itself & not the steering....................

Dan did you not wonder why the TypeR has a chain drive of the front crank pulley :biglaugh:

[Mudlark]

So how fast would the 2 speed mile marker be then? with a proper dedicated pump of course (not a PSP)

[G-mod]

Here you go:

http://www.4x4winches.com/zf74_pump_system.htm