Mud-club

Vehicle & Technical => Discovery => Topic started by: disco 1 tdi on May 15, 2010, 12:08:41

Title: Let down
Post by: disco 1 tdi on May 15, 2010, 12:08:41
Thursday night i was driving home from work enjoying the sun and thinking how reliable my disco had been and the posibility of a mini expedition later in the year!

Think i must of tempted fate, the Land Rover gods were not happy with me for whatever reason :( i pulled up at some traffic lights and as i went to pull away there was a horrible thud which was followed by a sickening grinding gravely noise. The clutch seemed fine and it felt like it was going into gear but as i lifted the clutch nothing  :shock: just the grinding deep graveling noise. all of which happend outside a highschool.

Anyway some friendly boys gave me a push into the school car park. then i made the call to my breakdown cover. an hour and a bit later dad turned up in his v8 90 and towed me 25 miles back to his. On closer inspection theres no obvious damage or oil leaks which makes me think gearbox. Has anyone else had similar problems?

Where do i need to start? guessing the engines gotta come out? any advie apreciated

Toby
Title: Re: Let down
Post by: Frankie-Boy on May 15, 2010, 12:47:45

You might have blown a diff, try putting the centre diff in and see if it moves then.
Title: Re: Let down
Post by: Saffy on May 15, 2010, 13:01:24
FIngers cross it what the man ^^^^^ says .........but disco1 though......... might be the input gear splines or worse the shaft itself. Early LT230 tranny had poor lubrication of the shaft splines, later ones had cross drilled input gears that allowed oil to reach shaft splines. https://docs.google.com/Doc?docid=dhfmtstj_0ghdpj7jh&hl=en
Title: Re: Let down
Post by: disco 1 tdi on May 15, 2010, 13:32:48
Cool, i'll have a good read.

Im pretty sure that we didnt get drive in any gear inc props not moving
Title: Re: Let down
Post by: disco 1 tdi on May 16, 2010, 21:22:19
all bar one bell housing bolt removed. the hardest one to get to has rounded  :evil:

any ideas??
Title: Re: Let down
Post by: Saffy on May 16, 2010, 21:28:08
how come you taking gearbox out? hopefully not to inspect the input gear.... as you just need to remove the PTO cover on the back of the box and look inside - remove the retainer and the input gear will pull out.

Try hex socket instead of crappy multipoint sockets on the bolt head.
Title: Re: Let down
Post by: mark-d on May 16, 2010, 22:04:58
does it do it in both high and low?
Title: Re: Let down
Post by: disco 1 tdi on May 16, 2010, 22:17:17
yeah just no drive
Title: Re: Let down
Post by: Disco-Ron on May 16, 2010, 22:44:34
I think you've been a bit hasty to take the entire gearbox out, it is a guess possible for it to be the input shaft into the nain box that has gone, butas said, most likely the intout into the transfer box.... which is a much simpler job!!

It pasy to research things fully before you get your spanners out, esp on something as awkward as taking a disco g box out!
Title: Re: Let down
Post by: Dr Neil on May 17, 2010, 20:40:51
Where abouts are you located??

As was suggested did you try engaging difflock and see if you have drive??
Title: Re: Let down
Post by: disco 1 tdi on May 17, 2010, 22:29:51
yeah thanks for the advice,  :clap:
Title: Re: Let down
Post by: disco 1 tdi on May 17, 2010, 22:31:24
hi dr neil, did try diff lock and there was no drive
Title: Re: Let down
Post by: stretchy on May 18, 2010, 14:24:40

hes right in takeing the gear box out if there is no drive in all gears and no props moveing as both in and output shafts needs to be cheked. sounds to me like the output shaft chap I have had this hapen twice to me now both on lt77 its no good just replacing one you need new out put and input ring on the t box as both will have damage  ... before it went was there an bit of a clunk when taking up drive or sticking it in reverse ???

stretchy
Title: Re: Let down
Post by: disco 1 tdi on May 18, 2010, 17:54:49
yeah more like a bang than a clunk  :shock:

figured it would need to come out either way but now got a bolt rounded right at the top of the bellhousing close to the bulk head.

Sure we'll figure something out. am toying with the idea of keeping the disco for parts and transfering engine (i know its not straight forward, will need differnt mani etc)
into a 90 if a can find a subitable one ie, cheap
Title: Re: Let down
Post by: les baty on May 18, 2010, 19:45:12
hi, i had a mate round off the top bolt on my disco, i got it out by hammering a smaller socket on to it, a bit barbaric i know but it got over the problem, also i never replaced the top bolt and never had any problems
Title: Re: Let down
Post by: stretchy on May 18, 2010, 19:48:48
cheap 90 ?? good luck with that lol... hmmm my advice on the rounded nut would be to remove the cross member on the gear box and lower it down on a jack this will cause the engine to tilt back slightly giveing you a bit more room at the top. I would then try and get 1 size smaler socket and hamer it onto the rounded nut. this may damage the socket so dont use one out of your best set. I have a big box of odd sockets that I use thease for and normaly this works. yes im prety sure its the out put shaft.
Title: Re: Let down
Post by: disco 1 tdi on May 18, 2010, 20:58:02
its crazy the kinda money they hold, phoned up bout a few today. surprise surprise gone in no time. Im gonna attack the disco again on sat if the weather holds out. I will prob give the socket and cross member idea a go.
 

Title: Re: Let down
Post by: Dr Neil on May 18, 2010, 21:17:14
Where are you located??
Title: Re: Let down
Post by: disco 1 tdi on May 18, 2010, 21:34:52
norfolkshire
Title: Re: Let down
Post by: Dr Neil on May 19, 2010, 21:09:51
Sorry mate a bit too far for me to pop round and help, good look though.....
Title: Re: Let down
Post by: disco 1 tdi on May 19, 2010, 21:23:10
cheers anyway,
Title: Re: Let down
Post by: les baty on May 19, 2010, 22:05:54
just keep an eye on the pipes and wires on the bulk head when you remove the cross member and lower the box, there isnt a lot of room behind there and the engine will touch the bulk head when the box is lowerd
Title: Re: Let down
Post by: disco 1 tdi on May 25, 2010, 21:23:45
Attackd the disco at the wkend, got the transfer box off and it turns out my output shaft is missing most of the splines!  :evil:

Also this seems to have created a pretty evil grinding paste and mullered the inside of the input gear. The next step will be to remove the engine. its now stripped, alternator, wiring loom, pas pump etc to try and make it a bit easier. Dam that bolt!

Am planning on rinseing the transfer box out, can anyone recomend a subtable liquid?   :huh:

recon box is on the cards, most likely ashcroft.

Target is to have it back on the road for billings
Title: Re: Let down
Post by: Saffy on May 25, 2010, 21:31:49
There you go I scored with the diagnostic *clap* Could have fault found that with removal of the pto cover and 20 minutes effort at most. Good luck with the repair. Rinse box out with paraffin maybe - what I'd use start with anyway, replacement cross drilled output gears are peanuts for most boxes.
Title: Re: Let down
Post by: disco 1 tdi on May 25, 2010, 21:37:45
yeah you right could have told from taking that off but it would have to come out anyway, i will be getting one of the newer gears with the oil holes  :D pitty LR didnt think of that first time round.
Title: Re: Let down
Post by: Saffy on May 25, 2010, 21:45:42
yeah you right could have told from taking that off but it would have to come out anyway, i will be getting one of the newer gears with the oil holes  :D pitty LR didnt think of that first time round.
whats the mileage on it anyway, seems like it lasted a long time. They released a mod with a plate to splash oil into gear supposedly, dunno if it was a recall though. No need for the expense of an ashcroft box though. plenty of low milage boxes L230 out there from breakers and the likes. I got a disco box on my defender from a D2 td5 low miles for about 50 quid, took a while in the yard to find one with both low box and difflock on though as they removed it on later d2's.
Title: Re: Let down
Post by: disco 1 tdi on May 25, 2010, 21:52:18
112K i bought it at 85K was in very good condition, has had all oils change reguarly since
Title: Re: Let down
Post by: disco 1 tdi on May 30, 2010, 16:39:02
Got the box seperated from the engine today  :grin: managed to pull engine forward enough to chisel the rounded nut at the top of the bell housing off. jacked the car up a bit and pulled the gearbox out, piece of cake. just a big clean up job now, a fair bit of oil about (will change crank oil seal).
Title: Re: Let down
Post by: disco 1 tdi on June 04, 2010, 20:34:43
Got my new box yesterday, superquick service from ashcroft, Much appreciated! Looks great and cant wait to get it on  :dance:

Pitty still waiting for the flywheel bolts from rimmer, !!!

Anyone used a britpart HD clutch before, read a few bits about differnt clutches inc borg and beck (now ap?) and seems they either go pretty quick or last for ages.

Iterested to know what the standard clutch was? The one that came out was Valeo looked pretty good
Title: Re: Let down
Post by: les baty on June 05, 2010, 12:21:03
ive used valeo before and never had any problems, while its all in bits weld a washer on to the clutch fork where it pivits in the bell housing, its quite common for them to fail and you dont want to be pulling it all apart again to fix it
Title: Re: Let down
Post by: disco 1 tdi on June 05, 2010, 17:54:08
yeah ive heard this before, didnt seem to be any wear when i had a look
Title: Re: Let down
Post by: mark-d on June 09, 2010, 19:21:07
i have used britpart hd clutch kits on both 200tdi and 300tdi both work perfectly good but noticed a small rattle from the release barring when cold on both but goes when the clutch is pressed or when it warms up, never caused a problem tho
Title: Re: Let down
Post by: disco 1 tdi on June 09, 2010, 19:28:54
ok thats not so bad then, can live with a rattle
Title: Re: Let down
Post by: Disco Matt on June 09, 2010, 21:54:28
Do not fit the Britpart clutch, it'll only cause you considerable pain! In general I won't use their branded parts as the quality is terrible. Try an allegedly heavy duty spring which went soggy in six months on a truck which hadn't had any heavy loads in that time...

I forget who the OEM clutch supplier was, but it's worth finding out. The original on mine lasted 121k, including dragging caravans and towing people out of mud holes with a dead rope (snatch recovery not an option, had to take up slack and then give it some beans from a standing start).

I asked for a heavy duty clutch on mine when I took it in to the local specialist earlier this year, I assume he fitted something decent. There's a bit of judder on take-up but I've put that down to bedding the clutch in, it doesn't happen if I give it a bit more right foot when pulling away (as opposed to trying to roll away at tickover).
Title: Re: Let down
Post by: disco 1 tdi on June 10, 2010, 13:09:22
the oe clutch is aparently valeo, seems everyone has a differnt opinion of britpart personaly ive never had a problem with anything from them. I was also told that the millitary use britpart HD clutches.

The juddering may be down to a worn crank oil seal, mine did the same and when i took the gearbox off there was alot of oil in the bell houseing.
Title: Re: Let down
Post by: mark-d on June 13, 2010, 19:50:50
not had any sliping with the britpart
Title: Re: Let down
Post by: disco 1 tdi on June 13, 2010, 21:38:00
my new box seems to hav a fair bit of play in the shaft, engine side. Is this normal? old box has no play at all.

worked stopped again! is it goin to get to billing?  :cry:
Title: Re: Let down
Post by: mark-d on June 13, 2010, 21:56:55
in what way? (endfloat or backlash)
Title: Re: Let down
Post by: disco 1 tdi on June 13, 2010, 22:09:23
i can move the shaft that goes into the crank by about 3mm
Title: Re: Let down
Post by: disco 1 tdi on June 18, 2010, 21:08:17
Sent my gearbox back and aparently its ok! outside landrover tolerance but within their's very quick response and glad i got it back yesterday.

So today the gearbox went back   :D pity it wont stay looking that new for long. Tomorrow on goes the transfer box and then the other bits and bobs
Title: Re: Let down
Post by: kizz81 on June 27, 2010, 10:42:44
DONT EVER USE A BRITPART CLUTCH!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

yes i have a reason to say this
firstly my dad has a 200 disco his clutch fork went so he put a whole new britpart clutch in, lasted 80 miles then the strangest thing happened the big thick metal plate inside there snapped  :evil: so i took it back to paddocks and got so much abuse off their staff...

never use paddocks or britpart

my 90 is a 200 and i replaced the engine last year and put a new britpart clutch in just because, new fork  bearing aswell,
well at easter this year, the clutch fork went through and when i took it apart the bearing was knackered

britpart is not only useless it is dangerous aswell  :evil: :evil: :evil: :evil:
Title: Re: Let down
Post by: disco 1 tdi on June 27, 2010, 19:13:32
Ive never had a problem with britpart, most of the parts ive bought are from them and they generaly turn up quickly, fit well and are good value, and ive never been sent a wrong part.

Ive decided to go down the britpart clutch route because if i dont try i wont know, and ive read alot about people having problems with more expensive brands.

what metal plate broke?
Title: Re: Let down
Post by: kizz81 on June 27, 2010, 22:42:43
ouch dear me, good luck 
(http://i63.servimg.com/u/f63/11/83/61/65/img00012.jpg)
interestly enough paddocks insisted i had abused it [ considering it wasnt my vehicle or clutch as they hadnt noticed i had turned up in my vehicle ] annoyed me a little as we had only driven to my student house and back 80 miles,

some people stick by britpart, and too be honest before this year i swore by them but never again, total rubbish they sell  :evil:

glad to hear your gearbox all went ok  :)
Title: Re: Let down
Post by: disco 1 tdi on June 27, 2010, 22:51:14
we'll see what happens
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