Mud-club
Vehicle & Technical => Defender => Topic started by: JD LWB on April 18, 2005, 23:38:23
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Hi
I'm looking to increase the performance of my 200tdi 110 (1990 with a later engine) :twisted: , I have read lots of good things about these things, but haven't spoken to anyone using them.
Are any of you using them and if so what do you think of them (are they worth £79.95) :?:
Thanks
James
P.S. I you dont rate the Hiclones, can you suggest any other ways to increase performance on a budget and without installing a V8 (someone would say it so i thought I would get it in first). :lol:
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First off... I don't rate them at all... I have seen no independant engineering data to support the claims from the manufacturer... and there is plenty of data to suggest that they don't
In terms of increasing the performance of a Tdi engine...... well....
To begin with, it is a fairly agricultural bit of kit, so you can't expect miracles. A good service and clean will often provide a bit of a boost.
The "cheap" ways to improve performance usually involve changing the boost pressure and fuelling, fiddling with the wastegate and EGR valves and other such things.
Whilst these will have an effect, you need to be very careful. There are plenty of ways you can damage a Tdi by over-adjusting things without some proper care and a whollistic view of the engine.
The killjoy answer is that there is no cheap way to do it.... because all too often the cost of engine damage makes it all very expensive :-(
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I have a set fitted to my 93' 200Tdi and the difference is noticable (at least on my engine)
She accelerates smoother through the rev band (the turbo appears to kick in earlier) and I am getting an extra 2-3 mpg. Comfortable motorway crusing speed has upped by about 5mph. It is nothing remarkable and you will have to decide yourself if it would be worth the £80.
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<killjoy mode> http://www.fuelsaving.info/debunk.htm </killjoymode>
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increased performance . the boost can be turned up to 15psi with no ill effect.the pump can be tweaked for a little more go.bigger intercooler is the way to go .if you cant afford a new one then tour the breakers for one out a jap motor and make it fit.
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I would never fit a hiclone of use any fuel additives - its all hipe in my view.
manufacturers of eniges spend £ms in R&D to improve mpg, emissions etc. if it worked they would do it.!!
be wary.
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sorry to disagree but aren't all engines a compromise.
theres always room to improve on manufacturers specs.
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Yes, all design is a compromise (that's going to be the club motto soon).
Engine manufacturers have to weigh up the requirements from a technical perspective, from the marketing demands and from a cost point of view.
I'm not saying there isn't room for improvement over a production design... I've made all manner of changes in the name of 'improvement' on my vehicles. I'm just saying that I don't believe this particular technology falls into the category ;-)
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http://www.lrenthusiastforum.com/ubbthreads/showflat.php?Cat=&Board=LR_technical&Number=91564&page=1&view=collapsed&sb=5&o=0&fpart=
hiclones I wouldn't bother
ask yourself why would a turbocharger care if the air is swirling or not just before it is compressed?
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Couldn't quite ungerstand why you need a hiclone fitted before and after the turbo in a tdi (am I right in saying this, thats the impression I got) surely the airs gonna be a bit turbulent leaving the turbo anyway?
Going back to the original thread, what mpg (in reality) do you get on gas fuelled V8? I have a mate who's running an L200 (import) V6 petrol on gas, and the economy is poor, we worked out he's saving no money whatsoever over his old Diesel one (though he's quite happy witht he new V6).
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Not a huge amount different from what you'd get running it on petrol in general - a lot depends on how the gas is set up.
IIRC gas doesn't create quite the bang that petrol does (something to do with latant calorifc values, or somesuch) so power is slightly down, so gas systems are often tuned to hoy in a tad more gas and this can result in slightly lower MPG, but a half the price, no one genrally complains.
Now, I could be completely wrong on the above, it is recalled from the hazy days of having the Disco gassed. Sometime has passed....
Anyone with a better memory wanna comment?
cheers
8)
Eeyore
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Couldn't quite ungerstand why you need a hiclone fitted before and after the turbo in a tdi (am I right in saying this, thats the impression I got) surely the airs gonna be a bit turbulent leaving the turbo anyway?
Doing a bit with fluid dynamics I think the one after actually improves things by stabilising the air flow, turbulance is the enemy of good flow, likewise laminar boundry attachment at the air/pipe interface also slows flow a bit like flow benching a racing head/manifold, polished actually reduces compared with flow over a fine ground surface, so the hyclones improve the first and disrupt the second where ever fitted, IMHO. How much difference it really makes is an open ended question, but I can understand how it might work.
Niel.
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Not a huge amount different from what you'd get running it on petrol in general - a lot depends on how the gas is set up.
As always, I'm no expert, but the sequential LPG system I had on the Range Rover, once it was tuned properly, yielded very similar performance and economy on both LPG and Unleaded. There really wasn't anything to tell the two. I think you're right that LPG is less calorific though, so I guess there should always be some difference, even if it's imperceptible.
The 101 system changes the timing depending on what fuel's being used, and also the throttle settings, and as it's currently set up I think it runs *better* on LPG than Unleaded - idles better, more power, and I think also more economical (by volume - it's *much* more economical by price, naturally).
From my experiences with LPG so far, it seems to work well on simple installations with basic engines (like the 3.5v8), but less well on complex electronically-managed engines like the 4.6, but I may be doing it injustice.
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We're running a single point on a 3.9 efi and it works well. It took a few miles for the system to bed in and stop back firing, but it runs pretty much without a hitch now.
The multipoint (sequential, gas phased injection - whatever you want to call 'em) systems are more expensive (about double the price) andare a bit of a threb to get sorted, but once working go very well.
I've a friend that runs a Rangie with a 4.5 Dakar blueprint (approx 300bhp) with twin ecu sequential and it goes like a train, the power delivery is just awesome on both gas and petrol. And not a Hiclone is sight!
I would love that engine. <sigh>
cheers
8)
Eeyore
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Don't they reduce engine braking as well. Let you motor run away down hill's not good i'm sure, so i've heard.
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I don't see why it would do that - the valve timings are still the same, so air is still getting in / out at the same time, and the friction of the engine is unchanged, so surely engine braking would not be changed?
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Is it to do with back pressure from the exhaust. That's what the local garage told me is this all bull then.
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Your local garage should know more than I do, but the exhaust is unchanged, and I wouldn't expect the volume of exhaust gases plays a major part, so I'd be surprised... But I'm no expert.
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I would say that your local garage is... misinformed ;-)
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No i'm a muppet :? was thinking of the vortex thingy sorry i'll get my coat. :oops: :oops: :oops: