Mud-club
Vehicle & Technical => Discovery => Topic started by: Disco Matt on May 22, 2009, 21:27:44
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Firstly, I am not looking to buy a winch just yet! However, I could use a more robust front bumper with recovery and jacking points (rather than grovelling in the mud for my JATE rings). Winch bumpers seem to cost about the same as the few heavy duty non-winch units I've seen, so it makes sense. I'll just put the numberplate over the fairlead slot for now.
Which bumper would people recommend that meets the following criteria:
Needs holes for headlamp washers (which still work on mine, and I want to keep them)
Needs jacking points and recovery points (I like the swivelling shackle type, are they any good?)
Ideally needs to be able to fit a winch without cutting the grille
My budget is up to £250, ideally less! Any ideas?
So far I've found this one:
http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/Discovery-MK1-Air-Con-Winch-Bumper-Inc-Recovery-Eyes_W0QQitemZ290305205755QQcmdZViewItemQQptZUK_Lifting_Moving_Equipment?hash=item439789e5fb&_trksid=p3286.c0.m14&_trkparms=72%3A1689|66%3A2|65%3A12|39%3A1|240%3A1318|301%3A1|293%3A1|294%3A50
Any thoughts? I don't see washer jet holes but I'm sure I could drill them.
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Looks very similar to mine, but difficult to tell from their small photo!
Mine does sit a fair way forwards - a non-winch bumper will sit further back and give a slightly better approach angle... but I have never had any issues with mine.
The swivels are £40 a pair if bought separately - if you are using these, I would suggest using a bridle to spread the load across both chassis rails.
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you could always go for a shadow bumper but in the end they all do the same job
(http://i294.photobucket.com/albums/mm94/maffy33/DSC00038.jpg)
to be honest if you go for eone that you dont have to cut the grill you will find they stick out far to far and look ugly
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I'm not overly keen on the tubular type for Discos - they're just a bit too modified-looking for my tastes. The square type look much more original in terms of silhouette, if that makes sense. I want something that looks pretty normal but is a little more capable/robust than standard.
The reason I don't want to cut the grille is that I have a Gulf spec one, which would look absolutely terrible if I had to hack the mesh bit about. I don't see approach angle as being a problem - I never catch my existing one, the steering guard tends to hit the deck first.
I also have aircon, so suspect that a shadow type bumper might make things a bit too cramped in there when trying to fit a winch and all the assorted wiring. The ebay bumper I found specifically says that it's suitable for aircon-fitted vehicles, presumably they move the tray slightly further forward.
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If the discover air con condensor is the same as on the RRC (1987) then the only way a winch bumper wouldn't fit with air con is if part of the steel under body was cut away as well. My winch sits completely behing the grill and I only cut out a little bit of the grill so that I could reach the free spool leaver, but as it turns out I don't use the free spool too often anyway as I remove the grill while winching so that the drum can be seen.
I don't have a HD front bumper, having just modefied the standard one to clear the fairlead and match the body lift, but then I've only bent a standard bumper on the RRC once in 3.5 years and five minuets with a some stillsons soon sorted that out.
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I may well be buying that one from ebay, as it seems to be from Winch Solutions who I've seen good reports of elsewhere. I've just sent them an email to ask whether it still has jacking points (they're shown, but not mentioned in the text. It also says that the bumper has swivel recovery shackles which aren't shown, so I want to check what I'm getting!).
The nuisance with standard Disco bumpers is that when you get rid of the flimsy plastic bits you end up with ugly lumps of metal showing. I'd rather swap it to a heavy duty/winch one which will look neater.
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I had forgotten what disco ones looked like without those end caps plastic :doh:
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ill just concur that the service i got from winch solutions has been first class.... i got my winch and a split charge system from there and they couldnt have been more helpful!!
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Try www.4x4rus.com in Warick. Excellent build quality and a superb approach angle. I bought one ages ago and I still think it is the best.
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Thanks chaps - I've ordered the Winch Solutions one from ebay. It looks as though the aircon type meets my wish not to have to cut the grille. Should be here this week sometime, then I can stop worrying about one of the plastic endcaps detaching itself at 60mph! :lol:
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Matt
could you post some pics of it when you get it.... as the one on ebay is a bit naff.... just thinking its exactly the same thing that Kirsty is looking for....
Cheers
Dave
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I am picking up one of their winch and bumper packages on Thursday as i have ordered and paid for one!
Will post some pics up as well over the coming weekend of what it looks like fitted lol
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Matt
could you post some pics of it when you get it.... as the one on ebay is a bit naff.... just thinking its exactly the same thing that Kirsty is looking for....
Cheers
Dave
No problem, will do. The ebay photo seems to show an older design as well as being a bit small, as it shows recovery eyes welded under the bumper rather than the swivel shackle mountings that you actually get.
Assuming it doesn't rain on the day that it arrives I should have it fitted quickly. I draw the line at rummaging under my truck for non-urgent jobs in heavy rain!
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It's here. Very fast delivery!
A few photos:
(http://i183.photobucket.com/albums/x21/Kingofthemountains/Disco/DSCN2432.jpg)
I have yet to manage to fit the circlips that stop the swivel eyes from falling into the bumper, need to find the circlip pliers. It comes with blue pin shackles cast with a 3.25t WLL.
(http://i183.photobucket.com/albums/x21/Kingofthemountains/Disco/DSCN2433.jpg)
Both ends are a mirror image, so here's a closeup of one. The dust is from the shredded paper used as part of the packaging. Note that it does seem to have holes for the headlamp washers - they didn't seem to think that it did when I emailed, but they're definitely there. A welcome surprise as I didn't really want to have to lose those!
(http://i183.photobucket.com/albums/x21/Kingofthemountains/Disco/DSCN2434.jpg)
This is inside the winch tray, taken so you can see the welds. Dust is from the paper again. It was very well packed!
Oddly enough I'm not exactly rushing out now to fit it due to having a small monsoon in progress. :lol: If things dry out a bit I'll get it bolted on and get some more photos.
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slacker! put a bloody coat on! :lol:
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Matt, did you get the £470 package?
I collect mine directly from them tomorrow :D hurrah!
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Matt, did you get the £470 package?
I collect mine directly from them tomorrow :D hurrah!
Nope, I paid £247 including postage for the bumper alone. I don't really want a winch yet as it runs into all sorts of other costs...
Thing is, while I have no intention of doing challenge events I would want to fit a decent solenoid, good quality plasma rope, wireless remote, etc. I wouldn't be buying a top spec winch (those orange "Winchmax" look ok for me) but I would want to buy the best extras. I suspect I probably wouldn't get much change from £200 for just the extras, let alone the winch itself!
I'd also want a second battery and split charging before I got that far, which are currently higher on the list with a view to being able to power the computer and other goodies from it while parked up or camping.
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I got the whole package!
So i will be fitting it on Friday :D
Will let you know what their winch is like :D
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I'm almost certain you'll find that it is a different bumper to the one in the picture.The reason i know this is that that is a picture of my old truck with one of the Padia
bumpers,and as they have been out of business for a couple of years i'm not surprised it is different to the one pictured.
I hope your as happy with yours as i am with mine...
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Interesting! So they might react well to Yoshi or I offering them a decent photo of the real product for publicity use. I may well email them one when I've got it fitted.
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Well i picked mine up today and couldnt be happier!
Its damned good quality, and the winch looks really good as well!!!
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I'm awaiting delivery of some new bolts before I try to fit it, as when I removed one of the originals to check the size I found that the end was bent :shock: I'm reasonably sure I never put that much stress on the JATE ring on that side even on the one occasion when I had to be kineticed out of a hole! :lol:
I already knew that the upper bolts were monkey metal rather than high tensile, so was planning to replace them anyway. Now all four will be replaced. The new bolts are high tensile, with a higher rating than the old ones. Interesting the bumper has holes for six bolts, so I'll see if the matching holes are there for the other two with a view to sourcing and fitting some if I get a winch.
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The other 2 holes are for further back where the steering guard mounts to!
Or at least i think it does!
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The other 2 holes are for further back where the steering guard mounts to!
Or at least i think it does!
My steering guard mounts to the bottom of the two bumper mount holes at the front, so it's not that. I think it must be to enable you to use six bolts to attach it.
Right, I've now decided that fitting my numberplate over the fairlead hole will look daft. So instead I've just ordered a shiny aluminium fairlead (as I'll be using plasma rope when I do get a winch) and will be attaching the plate above that with sticky pads. One question - does the winch just bolt to the baseplate, or does it bolt to the front too? In other words is the fairlead just bolted to the frontplate or do the bolts go through into the winch casing? I just want to make sure that I don't have to take anything off when the winch eventually goes on.
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Looks like it bolts with 4 bolts just up through the bottom of the bumper. I will know alot more tomorrow when i fit it all :D
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Well tis not as easy as it looks to fit!!!
Its being a right PITA!!!!
Me old bumper came off fine, but can i get the new one on, no! Its catching somewhere, i think its cos i have the XS model which has the wheel arch extentions, or not!
But i will find a way, even if i have to start chopping the wing!
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I would have a look at the little metal strips that attach the front of the wings to the sides of the original bumper - it may be catching there? Wouldn't have thought that the mouldings will make any difference as they don't go beyond the lower edge of the wing. Do post your findings, as it'll save me getting the sledgehammer out!
Just been checking that the bolts will turn on mine, it will be fitted at the weekend sometime when I finish gathering the various fiddly bits like sticky pads for the numberplate and some M10 repair washers (nice big washers to spread the load).
I have managed to figure out why my steering guard is no longer straight, and why my original bumper doesn't sit level anyway. Neither is due to a bent chassis or body, the former has one bent sideplate and the latter would be fine if I undid the bolts and pushed it up at one side. Both easily fixed, thankfully!
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Its on!
Its a cut out the grill type bumper!
had to remove both indicators and the lower panels to make it fit :D
but it is on now :D
Pics to follow :D (after me doctors appt, am covered in it, and it works too cos i had to put the wire back on :D lol, my advice, put the hook on before, and also have come circlip pliers handy to remove one of the rotating tubes on the rollers
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Some pics of it being fitted!
Frontal view - As you can see, the indicators and the bits of trim need to come out to fit this in easily (or at least it did for me!)
(http://i356.photobucket.com/albums/oo5/badgersrover/iphone1012.jpg)
Close up of indicator area.
(http://i356.photobucket.com/albums/oo5/badgersrover/iphone1013.jpg)
This is the bit that the grill sits into at the bottom, these were bent out the way in order to fit the bumper in.
(http://i356.photobucket.com/albums/oo5/badgersrover/iphone1014.jpg)
Quick view of the other side!
(http://i356.photobucket.com/albums/oo5/badgersrover/iphone1015.jpg)
The plastic bit thats covering the winch tray had to come out, otherwise winch wouldnt fit in!
(http://i356.photobucket.com/albums/oo5/badgersrover/iphone1016.jpg)
The semi finished product! Just have to refit the grill after i have cut it to fit :D
(http://i356.photobucket.com/albums/oo5/badgersrover/iphone11001.jpg)
(http://i356.photobucket.com/albums/oo5/badgersrover/iphone11002.jpg)
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Forgot to add "fit the rollers thingumy" to the things left to do! lol
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I was just about to PM you and ask if you'd had trouble!
I have just spent a very frustrating hour trying and failing to fit mine. The outer part of the "jaws" that go around the chassis legs seems to be too long, and hits the body mounting there. The whole thing also appears to be too low and doesn't sit tightly against the base of the trim below the headlights like yours does. I've just sent them a message via ebay to ask what they suggest, as I can't see how it's supposed to fit at all and having paid the best part of £250 I'm not too happy!
Looking at yours, mine definitely sticks out further presumably as I ordered the aircon type. I would therefore wonder if there's a design problem with these?
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No idea, mine was lifted at first by a high lift on one side, and my 15 year old step son on the other side :D
Basically i found it was fouling on everything, so i jacked it up, managed to get the top 2 bolts in place, and then it just seemed to go how it was supposed to when i let the jack down!
Also mine looks the same as yours in the picture?
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I take that back, mine is alot slimmer than yours in the pics!
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Mine's evidently intended so that the winch ends up in front of the grille, leaving plenty of space for the aircon gubbins to do their work. It just looks as though they welded the brackets onto it too low and made them a bit too long. I'll see what they say, may well have another try on Sunday and get some photos to show the problem if they want evidence. However, it doesn't look "fit for purpose" to me at the moment.
Really frustrating as it's well made and I like the design, it just doesn't fit!
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I hate it when that happens :D
Its a shame you have air con, cos this fits nicely in and doesnt protrude too far at all!
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Nice work
:D
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Cheers Jake :D
I have been waiting for a winch and bumper since i got me first discovery in 2003 :D
So finally i have nearly everything on a Land Rover that i wanted :D
Last big thing is some MT's on this one, then its just small things like hi lift mounts and stuff :D
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If you want a hilift mount, take a look at the Wizardbilt ones. Really well made, simple fit in about 5mins tops. No drilling or cutting required.
For things like waffles/shovels it is possible to modify the standard LR roof bars (get a spare set from ebay for about £20) as carriers. I'm planning to get some decent photos of mine with a view to documenting them in a thread here, as I'm very pleased with the results.
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Cheers Jake :D
I have been waiting for a winch and bumper since i got me first discovery in 2003 :D
So finally i have nearly everything on a Land Rover that i wanted :D
Last big thing is some MT's on this one, then its just small things like hi lift mounts and stuff :D
I love it when you start to get the car the way you like it
I'm well pleased with mine at the moment
(http://inlinethumb23.webshots.com/42006/2619829450102123940S600x600Q85.jpg)
:cool:
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Thats a good looking truck Jake!
I have yet to cut the grill on mine though, waiting til i have enough time to look at it properly!
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Looking Good there Dan m8
Odd that u had to bend up the grill stay bits ? I remember when i fitted my bumper it was a pig too and had to strip off the front but nothing needed bending out the way lol
cant wait to see it in person at billing so i can winch ya out of the mud lol
cheers keith
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Winch Solutions asked for some photos showing the problem with mine, I've emailed them but will also post the shots here:
(http://i183.photobucket.com/albums/x21/Kingofthemountains/Disco/DSCN2436.jpg)
(http://i183.photobucket.com/albums/x21/Kingofthemountains/Disco/DSCN2435.jpg)
I can't fathom it out at all, especially why one side has a larger gap than the other! I suspect that this is due to the infamous Land Rover build tolerances but the bumper clearly isn't right. It's as if someone did a body lift on the front of my truck when I wasn't looking (and put an odd number of shims on each side)! :lol:
I did manage to get all four bolts in this time however.
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Blimey thats low on the drivers side :shock:
How does it sit accross the front? Got any pictures ?
:)
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Blimey thats low on the drivers side :shock:
How does it sit accross the front? Got any pictures ?
:)
I didn't get any across the front, as with the headlamp trims and grille off it wasn't particularly obvious. I know that my original LR bumper didn't sit level but it was nothing like that bad, there might have been a 1/2in gap on the driver's side which would have closed up if I replaced the missing bracket bolt.
A few years ago the truck was involved in a shunt with an artic. However, it only sustained panel damage and was repaired by the insurance company. I don't think this is leftover from that incident as it didn't appear bent when I got it back and it's probably one of the sweetest-handling Discos, judging by how I can happily corner it far quicker than most. I have never had any problems with misaligned doors or anything else to suggest a deeper problem.
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With that in mind the chassis rail could be only slighty lower on one side causing the bumper(s) to sit unlevel.
This would'nt show on door alignment, vehicle handling or appearence
Could you not just open the holes on the bumper a little bit and level it by eye?
:D
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I don't really see how I could do it safely - the lower holes are very close to the bottom edge of the metalwork, considering how far it needs to come up.
Edit, just been out to have another look (having reassembled it with the original bumper so I can get to work!)
It looks as though the front left corner may be slightly bent downwards, rather than the bumper or chassis being bent upwards. So in other words the thing sits too low on both sides, but the body is leaning down to meet it on the left hand side!
I do know a tame welder who would probably be able to sort things out one way or another, but obviously I'm not too happy with having to pay more to get it fitted. I suspect that if the thing were to be raised to fit on the right hand side the bodywork could be pressed up to fit on the left.
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Very odd, mine is a perfect fit?
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Right, I've dug up some old photos and there is no way that the slanty bumper is leftover accident damage. I've got a couple taken a few months ago, long after it was repaired and the bumper is both dead straight and tight against the wings. It's increasingly looking like I'll have to take it to the local garage and ask their advice, as I've really no idea what has happened there.
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Have you sorted this out yet?
Have been waiting to see whats up with it! lol
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Well I emailed them, response came a few days later that it was "normal, even our demonstrator has a gap" or words to that effect. Not too impressed but evidently they're not about to offer an exchange/refund.
I've got some ghastly cold/flu thing at the moment so have been unable to lift a spanner for about three days, but when that goes I'll bolt it on again and take a tape measure to it, try to work out what's wrong then if I can't sort it I'll at least have useful information for my local garage when I ask them to put it right. I suspect that if it included the captive bolts (as fitted on the original bumper to tie the front wings to the bumper) these would be enough to pull it all together properly.
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I dont think mine fitted to the wings?
Mine just sat perfectly from the outset?
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Most aftermarket ones don't, but the original bumper has two metal straps that come from the bottom of the wings and hook over captive bolts on the ends of the bumper (you then put a nut on the bolt to secure them). I suspect if this new bumper had something similar it would solve the problem.
It'll be a while before I can do anything with it anyway, as I need the car to get to work in the week so can't hand it over to the garage to play with. As I said, I'll have a go at sorting it again and see what happens. I can't believe that the chassis or body are bent, I have photos taken long after the insurance repair work and it's all perfectly straight there. I would surely have caused serious damage to my aluminium bash plate (as in bolts torn out) if I'd hit the ground hard enough to bend the chassis since.
Tape measure time. I hate doing that as I always seem to find something in need of expensive professional fixing!
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Any updates on this one?
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Not yet - the MOT is due in a couple of weeks, so I'm planning to ask the garage if they can sort it out then. I have a set of new springs ready for them to fit too, which I don't fancy fitting due to a Disco being a rather heavy beast to prop up on stands while I fiddle about with spring compressors!
Thing is, my metal bashing skills are just about up to straightening a bent steering guard. If I fiddle about and something goes drastically wrong at a later date then I'll be liable (the main reason why I won't touch steering or brakes beyond topping up fluid and fitting new pads). I've been lucky enough to find a specialist who doesn't mind fitting bits that I've bought and then found rather beyond my skills to bolt on. :lol:
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sit the bumper on a level floor ,get a tape measure and measure the distance from floor to bottom of bumper at each end
that should show any differences, im sure its worth a phone call to trading standards if they wont refund or exchange,
we all have our rights...... :dance:
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sit the bumper on a level floor ,get a tape measure and measure the distance from floor to bottom of bumper at each end
that should show any differences, im sure its worth a phone call to trading standards if they wont refund or exchange,
we all have our rights...... :dance:
He didnt say they had refused to refund or exchange, he said evidently they wouldnt, which means they havent made any overt attempt to!
However, i have met them and spoken to them, so might be worth just giving them a ring, as opposed to emailing them, as i found them to be very helpful and a good bunch of lads, the emails are dealt with by the woman in the office, not the company owner.
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I don't think it is the bumper though. On closer inspection the original one is slightly down on the driver's side, and the new bumper looks perfectly straight to me. It's as if the very tip of the right hand chassis rail is slightly low (by a centimetre or so). I did email Winch Solutions a photo and was told that the gap was "normal", I don't really want to push it as I like the workmanship on this thing and it does look as though my truck is wrong rather than the bumper.
I'll ask the garage to sort it. They did a great job with my sills, so a little bit of straightening shouldn't be beyond them.
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i thought all winches made on a jig ,so there should not be any difference from one bumper to the next,
seems a cop out from the manufacturers,stating this is normal...........
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I have just finally fitted the front grille!!
(http://i356.photobucket.com/albums/oo5/badgersrover/iphone113.jpg)
(http://i356.photobucket.com/albums/oo5/badgersrover/iphone114.jpg)
I know its a bit rough in places, but it will do til i get meself a saudi grille :D
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You probably don't want a Saudi grille with that bumper, as you'd have to hack the grille and the mesh around a fair bit to make it fit (why I wanted a bumper that puts the winch in front of the grille). Looks good though.
I'm going to have another go at fitting mine this week I think, at least I plan to get the steering guard off and straighten that out. I'll see if a couple of thumps with the big hammer help the other problem. It only needs to go up by a centimetre or so and if that works I can save some time and cash when it goes in for MOT/service/spring fitting. If you hear a lot of banging and swearing from the direction of Wales on Thursday then that might well be me!
I have all the other bits sorted, apart from some more M10 washers and a new numberplate (the current one has a couple of holes in where it bolts to the original bumper) I'll be keeping the original as a spare in case the double sided tape I have for the new one turns out not to be strong enough to hold it on during river crossings... :lol:
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I have just ordered some stick on number plates to go on the bonnet for now :D
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I do now have a nice shiny aluminium fairlead, mainly as I wanted to figure out the height to mount the numberplate at and it does finish the bumper off neatly. Next stop on the winch trail would be a plasma rope, remote, decent solenoid and then the winch itself but there are other things well ahead of that including a second battery to run my gadgets.
However, if I see the fabled "8274 in need of rebuild, £50" I'll probably bite the seller's hand off! :lol:
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Well yes! lol
I forgot to say that there was a wireless remote setup inbuilt with this winch as well, so it was a major bargain :D lol
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After some grinding and bashing, it's on. Still not perfect but it's not going to fall off. I might ask the garage if they can take a look at the fit when it goes in for MOT, at least they should be able to come up with some options to get it sorted:
(http://i183.photobucket.com/albums/x21/Kingofthemountains/Disco/DSCN2453.jpg)
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Well i finished mine today :D
Stuck the number plate sticker on and finally got around to putting me mud club splat on :D
(http://i356.photobucket.com/albums/oo5/badgersrover/iphone008.jpg)
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Just been modifying my headlamp washers to fit, all now plumbed in and (presumably) working. Just need a nice clean river crossing to wash the dust off now! :lol: