Mud-club
Chat & Social => The Bar - General Chat => Topic started by: stretchy on April 09, 2009, 02:48:06
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alrite guys I was just arreseted for carying a camping/fishing knife in my disco amongst all the other gear I have. Im on bail till next friday I will let you know what hapends. I have a feeling it will go to court as I had no real reasen to have it with me other than I ocasinaly go offrosding/camping and was just left in there. they also said they was going to check on here to see if I realy did do this type of stuf. just be carefull what you cary and when!
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That's taking the pee a bit though, what reason did they have for searching your car anyway?
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That's taking the pee a bit though, what reason did they have for searching your car anyway?
That was my first though too. Sure they have to have 'good reason' to search the vehicle? Or was it fully visible?
If we are carrying the air rifle to the fields we always cover it up even if we don't intend stopping on the way. It's just not worth the agro even though we are carrying it perfectly within the law.
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Ive been stopped for carrying knives before.............. i told the officer to follow me to work and he will see why i have them with me. I went to work and the first thing i had to do was cut the netwrap on a bale of silage for some of the cattle, he left at that point saying he was very sorry for causing me inconvienience :dance:
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I believe the law is quite clear in this matter in that you can carry a knife if it is in connection with your job and you are on your way to that job. However, like Stretchy say's, it is all too easy to forget it's there and you can get caught out by it. I would like to think that if you can demonstrate it is for use in connection with your job and that you simply forgot to take it out of the car, that they would be lenient.
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Ive been stopped for carrying knives before.............. i told the officer to follow me to work and he will see why i have them with me. I went to work and the first thing i had to do was cut the netwrap on a bale of silage for some of the cattle, he left at that point saying he was very sorry for causing me inconvienience :dance:
Never been stopped but I carry a small folding knive (one of those relatively new folding stanley type ones), just about all the time, like you I use it for work, but has more 1000 uses too - not sure on legal stand point but feel happy enough to justify my need to carry it, and I'm self employed so not set work times...
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Im lucky he only saw the on sitting on my passenger seat, i think last time i looked there were 4 or 5 in and around my truck, including a sheath knife that i use to cut steel wire bound bales!
Like you, you never know when you need one.
That and i always seem to break them in general use :lol:
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A Yo are a victim of London lead media hysteria and policing by statistics.
I work in London and see a lot of london news and papers etc, to the London media Knife=Weapon and thats it. Now thats pretty bad if you live in London but as London news dominates "national" news those attitudes spread out across the country.
If, like me you live in a rural area knife=tool, but nowadays if you put on the wrong coat that has a knife in your pocket you are a criminal.
Hope you get off as you deserve.
Oh yes and the contents of my shed would qualify me as a bomb making factory, (Wire, nails Battery's etc, mind you no explosives but im not sure about my paint thinners or B&Q weed killer)
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If youd get done for bomb making, you should see where i work........ hundereds of nails, 5000L diesel and over 20t ammonimum nitrate 8-[
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alrite guys I was just arreseted for carying a camping/fishing knife in my disco amongst all the other gear I have. Im on bail till next friday I will let you know what hapends. I have a feeling it will go to court as I had no real reasen to have it with me other than I ocasinaly go offrosding/camping and was just left in there. they also said they was going to check on here to see if I realy did do this type of stuf. just be carefull what you cary and when!
The law says in general, it is an offence to carry a knife in a public place without a good reason or lawful authority(for example , a good reason is a chef on their way to work and carrying their own knives). However it is not illegal for anyone to carry a foldable, non locking knife, such as a swiss army knife, in a public place, as long as the blade is shorter than three inches(7.62 cms).
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However it is not illegal for anyone to carry a foldable, non locking knife, such as a swiss army knife, in a public place, as long as the blade is shorter than three inches(7.62 cms).
Cause there's no way in which a 2.95" knife could do the damage a 3" knife could.
Almost as stupid as the arbitary rules on liquids on planes. What can you do with 110ml of liquid that you can't do with 100ml?
Don't get me wrong - I know there're some nasty types out there who'll do bad stuff with knives but why criminalise everyone just for possession? Surely it's intent that matters - or is it just that intent is difficult to prove while possession is obvious.
A good couple of years ago I was walking with my mates back to their flat in Edinburgh after they'd been doing some sword re-enactment once. I was carrying a Hungarian hunting bow, they had a double-handed claymore and a broadsword each. Walked past two cops who didn't even blink.
Sounds like your cop was low on bookings and needed to make up his quota.
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See, I can't help but think how convenient the ban on taking liquids aboard planes was for the airlines. Or more specifically their ability to sell overpriced drinks to a captive audience who now have no alternative...
Did anyone else emit a derisive snort at the recent statement that there would be no minimum price on alcoholic drinks because "it would penalise the responsible drinkers". Isn't that exactly what they've done with guns, knives, etc? :evil:
I suspect the Police out here would only take any notice if you actually had the knife out and were waving it in a threatening manner, or if it was found after they'd arrested you for something else such as starting a bar brawl. Despite increasingly paranoid Home Secretaries they seem to be a sensible bunch in Mid Wales.
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Christ do not look in the back of my Landcruiser!! There is a pick axe, axe, chainsaw and a 24" machette :shock: with other things. But they are all in the rear with no access from the front. Looking in the glove box, there is 2 stanley knives and a Swiss army knife.
How big was the knife they found?
Paul
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Stretchy,
I wish you luck in your court appearance. The starting point for possession of a knife in a non-threatening situation is 12 weeks custody for a first offence.
See the knife-crime sentencing guidelines here (http://www.sentencing-guidelines.gov.uk/docs/sentencing_guidelines_knife_crime.pdf).
:undecided:
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It really does depend on a few things.
1. Where was the knife? If it was in the door pocket or other easy to reach position then that will raise the attention of the police, they will argue that it was in a position where it could be grabbed in anger.
2. Is it a lock knife? Any blade that locks into position is a no no!
3. What is the reason for carrying the knife? As has been said, with good reason then you will be OK.
Personally, I have Gerber Multi tool on my belt all the time, in my cubby box I have another as well as a fixed "utility" type blade, these are the ones that the police could question. In a box in my boot I carry a 18 inch machette, a small hand axe and a couple of bow saws!
If you carry the knives in the boot (I.E. out of easy reach in anger!!) then you should be OK.
Oh, and when I wear my kilt I have a 4 1/2 inch throwing knife in my sock!!
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A little off topic but I have thing about swords, now you you can't buy a sword with a curved blade over a certain length if it is a curved blade (samurai) but a straight one is ok. This applies to both live and display blades.
Just shows how crazy the laws can be, you can't get all oriental on some one but you can run round with a 5 foot broadsword ?
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2. Is it a lock knife? Any blade that locks into position is a no no!
True. But I find the locking type a lot safer to use!! I have a small folding (and locking) knife that I use for all sorts of things. It locks shut so it doesn't open in my pocket :shock: :lol: and it locks open so it can't shut on my fingers. Seems sensible to me, but it is now illegal to carry it anywhere.
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They have to draw the lines somewhere on what is or isn't allowed, though in the case of the samuri v. broadsword that one does sound like they didn't quite get it right :lol:
2. Is it a lock knife? Any blade that locks into position is a no no!
Thats a pain, My prefered general purpose knife is an Opinel #7 pen knife which is 5mm too long and has a twist lock (closed and open) on the blade. For what I do the twist lock is safer than the detented blade on my swiss army knife which has at times tried to close up on my fingers, but then the law wasn't writen by/for farmers.
Matt I know what you mean about the bombs, we even have some old lengths of drain pipe as well. Most kitchens have the contents to make crude plastic explosive as well. Fortunately the vast majority of the people in this world value each others lives.
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The knife was under some other rubish in the side pocket. the nife is a fixed 7 inch blade with kit and compas in the handle and was in a sheath. Im realy not chufed I did nothing wrong and will proberley represent myself if the <edit> (http://www.mud-club.com/forum/index.php/topic,42831.0.html) hits and goes to court. Its funy how ther is no difrence in situation from the day I purchased it than to when i was cught with it lastnight in fact when i purchased it sevral year ago I think I got the buss home (perfectly legal) It was in a sheath under some stuf in my car I never leve my car unlocked and I forgot it was ther so if thay want to prosicute me I will just laugh it out and see what happens. In my disco at the time was also other tools equaly as dangerus. stanley knifes chain saw air rifle axe and they said nothing. they dident even want to look at my rifle. It could have been an unlicenced shoty in the bag :shock: ther was 6 bobies looking over my disco and I cant belive thay had the ordasity
to ask me for my username on mud club as they dident beleve I go offroading/camping. Is the 1 inch of mud on my bonet bonnet not clear enough to 6 copers? :x I refused but they said thay would be checking. I do on the other hand relise what the police are trying to do with cutting crime and all but as yall say a knife has 1000 uses so It will still be the first thing I pack when I go next.
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I'm not sure representing yourself is the best idea unless you're very well-versed in the law and can argue convincingly. With 12 weeks behind bars as a possible outcome the stakes are a bit high to risk it.
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I'm not sure representing yourself is the best idea unless you're very well-versed in the law and can argue convincingly. With 12 weeks behind bars as a possible outcome the stakes are a bit high to risk it.
I got to agree with this. By the sounds of it, you haven't been interviewed on this yet? If so, when you answer bail they may want to question you then. Remember though that the decision on wether this goes to court is nothing to do with the Police, they put a file together which is then put to the CPS (Crown Proscecution Service) to decide wether it is in the public interest to go ahead and they also assign a percieved percentage chance of successto help them make this decision.
If you have a clean record prior to this, then the chances of anything nasty like custody is very unlikely, but having a duty soliciter in with you can help dramatically. Remember there is legal aid! But when it comes to interview the duty soliciter will not cost.
Be prepared to apologise, say that you forgot it was there and that you won't keep it there in future, you will ensure it is either in the boot or left at home. Remember the reasonable person is the person the police will listn to, if you are beligerant or aggressive then you will get nowhere.
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Six coppers ? :shocked: Could I ask why six coppers went through your disco ?
Seems a little OTT to me !!! :evil: Mind you where I live if you need a copper you can`t find one. Call 999 and you`ll still be waiting after 3 hours. Then on the other hand when you don`t need one they are in your face. Trying to get you for something. Just my views tho
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Hi ya
CrazyMac is right. As soon as they say the words ,"You do not have to say anything....>" You demand a legal representative.
If you do this in a police station, and you are facing a potential custodial sentence, then this is provided free. If they say this at your home, (can we come to your place to ask you a few questions), then it has to be provided at your expense. I learnt that one from experience.
Please keep us all informed how you get on...
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You can probably get an hour with a good solicitor for free, it's got to be worth having a chat with one.
As for keeping the knife in a side pocket, surely from ther point of view of vehicle safety it's preferable to having it rolling around in a holdall, at least in the door pocket it's secured.
At what point will carrying a hi-lift become a criminal offence then?, or a pry-bar.
And on what grounds can the police search your car anyway, it's not "public".
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I might be throwing myself open to some comments here but such is life.
I would speak to a solicitor asap on this.
I would be interested to see what it says on the stop/search form that they should have completed. What act / power did they use?
Comments about the need for 6 cops. There may well have been a high knife crime or disorder problem in the area, which would explain what sounds like a van crew.
I'm a bit interested about why they wanted your user name for MC :?
I just find it odd, especially as I always carry a Leatherman on my belt when on and off duty.
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Just some more info regarding the powers of search that the police have and your rights.
Many people are unaware of their stop, search and arrest rights. The police do have legal powers to stop, search, and arrest but only under certain conditions. However, new legislation means that these conditions have been extended and the police can stop and search without the need to give a reason under special circumstances.
Stop and Search
The police do have powers when it comes to stopping and searching the public. However, the police must have reasonable grounds for suspicion to exercise these powers. The police cannot just stop a person on an instinct or a hunch; there must be grounds to actually stop the person. For instance, if the police observed a person was found to be behaving suspiciously then this could be deemed as reasonable suspicion to stop and search.
Searches and Reasonable Suspicion
If reasonable suspicion is found then the police can stop, question, and search a suspect’s person and vehicle. If the police do stop a member of the public with the intention of searching them the suspect should always ask why they are being searched. If the police cannot give a justifiable reason for the search then the search should not be carried out. If the search continues without justification then a complaint can be made against the police.
The Search Process
There is a set procedure that must be followed by the police when it comes to stopping and searching a member of the public. The police officer must use a warrant card to prove their identity if they are not in uniform. They must also give information on their power to stop and search, provide their name and police station, and why the search is taking place. The police cannot order the removal of clothes in public, although they can search pockets and feel the lining of clothes. Any search that involves the intimate areas of a suspect must be undertaken by a member of the same sex.
Areas of Search
There are a number of different public and private areas where the police can stop and search. These areas are set out in the Police and Criminal Evidence Act 1984 (PACE). The police can stop and search anywhere that the public has access to or has been given permission of access. The police cannot search a suspect’s home or vehicle if it is on land that is part of the suspect’s home.
Searching For Items
There are a number of different items that the police will usually search for. This can include offensive weapons and articles that are deemed to be in some way connected to criminal activity. They may also stop and search vehicles if they suspect that they have been taken without permission. A more common stop and search reason is if the police suspect that a member of the public is carrying controlled drugs.
New Stop and Search Laws
New legislation has been brought in that gives the police extended powers when it comes to the stop and search procedure. Under section 44 of the Terrorism Act 2000 a Chief Constable can designate certain areas as stop and search areas. This means that the police can use stop and search powers without the need for any reasonable suspicion. In the past section 44 has been used within peaceful public protests. At the moment the whole of London is a designated area for stop and search under section 44.
Arrest Rights
In 2006 the rights of who the police could and couldn’t arrest underwent a change. Before 2006 the police in England and Wales only had the power to arrest people they suspected of committing very serious offences that would result in at least a five year sentence. Now the police can arrest anyone they suspect of committing an indictable offence. This is an offence that can be taken before a crown court with a jury present.
Indictable offences will include theft, assault or criminal damage. However, the police must still have reasonable suspicion that a member of the public is committing or is about to commit an indictable offence before an arrest can take place.
The police have recently been granted greater powers when it comes to stop, search, and arrest. But this does not eliminate the public rights when it comes to this procedure. Any abuse of the public’s rights can be seen as unlawful and the police can face prosecution and disciplinary procedures if they have abused a suspect’s rights.
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Usually when i go out greenlaning i have my Leather-man on my belt, if i got pulled over for some reason or another could i get arrested for carring that around with me..?? :undecided:
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Usually when i go out greenlaning i have my Leather-man on my belt, if i got pulled over for some reason or another could i get arrested for carring that around with me..?? :undecided:
In theory, yes. But it all depends on circumstances and on who stops you.
I've lifted very few people for knife offences, but those that have been have usually been with aggravating factors such as knife crime in the area, knives used to commit offences etc etc.
If someone comes up with a decent reason then all well and good. There has to be an element of trust. I've seen more people injured as a result of other weapons, such as baseball bats, bottles, broken beer glasses, lumps of wood, stone, even keys, than I have with knives.
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I have been asked questions by an officer regarding a knife that I carry in my Bouyancy aid before for rafting and kayaking- Having explained what it was for was told to 'just make sure its out of sight'. That has a locking blade- not really sure how the differentiation is made between tool and weapon?
Chris
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Usually when i go out greenlaning i have my Leather-man on my belt, if i got pulled over for some reason or another could i get arrested for carring that around with me..?? :undecided:
In theory, yes. But it all depends on circumstances and on who stops you.
I've lifted very few people for knife offences, but those that have been have usually been with aggravating factors such as knife crime in the area, knives used to commit offences etc etc.
If someone comes up with a decent reason then all well and good. There has to be an element of trust. I've seen more people injured as a result of other weapons, such as baseball bats, bottles, broken beer glasses, lumps of wood, stone, even keys, than I have with knives.
Ah i see, Ok cool, Thanks for clearing that up for me... :smiley:
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jesus they would have a field day with me i got axes splitters bush chops lancing blades yhe whole works in mine
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[!Expletive Deleted!] me, I've got an axe, chainsaw, couple of knifes, shotgun cartridges :rolleyes: in my truck, better have a clear out soon then might find even more yet!
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Sounds to me like they were bored or trying to get out of doing something dangerous like sorting out some drunks. I have witnessed and been on the recieving end of both from west midlands police.
Sorry Lord Shagg-Pyle you do seem a 'cut above the rest' but I have no faith in west midlands police.
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Sounds to me like they were bored or trying to get out of doing something dangerous like sorting out some drunks. I have witnessed and been on the recieving end of both from west midlands police.
Sorry Lord Shagg-Pyle you do seem a 'cut above the rest' but I have no faith in west midlands police.
No probs matey, I can see where you are coming from. Logic and common sense does not seem to have a part to play in 'Modern Policing' however much the Regime of Commisar Brown quack on about it. :roll:
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(http://www.mud-club.com/forum/index.php?action=dlattach;attach=11025;type=avatar)
Is that the new police motto ? ommitting the word "up" at the end seems a bit OTT ;)
Hehehe, Sorry, couldn't resist :)
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As I am about all hours day or night I live and work in the countryside. I get stopped as driving round what they call back roads of the town! with my window open is a good reason.
I have many knives in my vehicles. My P38 has a gut hook, Stag horn knife 4.5 inch fixed blade (mostly on my belt) as well as one or two in my glove box. My discovery the same. I have never had a problem or even asked what why they were there.
My only problem was why did I have a tool kit with 2 sets of spanners up to 36mm, hammer, srewdrivers, stud extractors usual kit in my boot.
Rich
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My only problem was why did I have a tool kit with 2 sets of spanners up to 36mm, hammer, srewdrivers, stud extractors usual kit in my boot.
Rich
What was your answer? Because i drive a land rover officer :police: :lol:
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(http://www.mud-club.com/forum/index.php?action=dlattach;attach=11025;type=avatar)
Is that the new police motto ? ommitting the word "up" at the end seems a bit OTT ;)
Hehehe, Sorry, couldn't resist :)
No offence taken! Very funny! :lol: :lol: :lol: With all that is going on with the Police and the Press at the moment, you have to have a giggle!
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I dont wish to seem for or against. But what fish are you catching, that require a 7" fixed blade ???
I hope nothing comes of it, but its a bit over the top.
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Is that the new police motto ? ommitting the word "up" at the end seems a bit OTT ;)
Hehehe, Sorry, couldn't resist :)
No offence taken! Very funny! :lol: :lol: :lol: With all that is going on with the Police and the Press at the moment, you have to have a giggle!
That go me remembering a Billy Connolly song from years ago, when he did a parody on the "Two little boys" by Rolf Harris all about police brutality!! Funny as heck!!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?gl=IE&hl=en-GB&v=WvaMuOanABk&feature=related
The chorus goes
Do you think I could leave you lying
When I could lie my head off too
If somebody squaks in the witness box
I'll cover up for you
I'll tell a pack of lies, pull the wool over their eyes
The way the sergeant taught us to
Before you count to three we'll be off scott free
We're two little boys in blue
Although being Billy you need to replace HEAD with another part of your anatomy at the top of your legs!! :dance:
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I carry a leatherman all day and i'm only a plaster.
I hardly use the blades but find the file handy for smoothing out nics i sometimes pick up on my trowel.
Thats another piont my trowel is 14" long and 5" wide and is razor sharp by the looks of things i better watch out
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You should try going through Frankfurt Airport (that's the one that's REALLY fussy about security on UK/US flights, since Lockerbie) with 5lbs of asparagus tied up in your hand baggage. You can imagine what it looks like on the x-ray machines. Fortunately, even the Germans saw the funny side.
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gota answer bail tomoro. il let you know witch way it goes. hope I get my knife back.
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Would someone explain what those who decided to ban locking blades saw as so dangerous in comparison to non-locking blades? Was it on the idea that if someone were to be attacked that they might just, out of absolute million to one chance, close the blade before they're stabbed or something stupid like that? :-.
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Sounds to me like they were bored or trying to get out of doing something dangerous like sorting out some drunks. I have witnessed and been on the recieving end of both from west midlands police.
Sorry Lord Shagg-Pyle you do seem a 'cut above the rest' but I have no faith in west midlands police.
I'm sorry but a crime is a crime. We complain that the police dont do enough in the communities, yet knife crime is one of the biggest problems! The laws were bought in about the knifes because of all the gang stuff and everything else that goes on. They are very widely known and as such should be obeyed.
No i am not perfect, in fact as a youth i spent most of my life on the wrong side of the law, but someone bleating cos they were caught breaking the law is pathetic. The law quite clearly states that carrying locking blades full stop is a definate no no and anything else over 3" without very good reason (generally classed as part of employment).
Ok, fair enough you may have forgotten to remove it, i can accept that, but for the rest of you stop having a go at the law about this.
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trying to play devil's advocate on this.
The Offensive Weapon laws have been around for ages and cover a lot more than just knives. The act actually names certain weapons, for instance flick knives, gravity knives, bear claws etc etc.
Most murders and assaults involving knives in the UK are carried out using kitchen knives. Can those be banned?
As I mentioned in an earlier post, if there are a large number of instances of knife attacks in a certain area, then extra stop/search powers are used. But it can be a case of 'caught between the devil and the deep blue sea'. It is said that 'excessive use' of stop/search powers was one of the causes of the riots in the early 80's in Brixton.
I have lifted people before when they have had a baseball bat in the car. The excuse was they had just finished a game of baseball. Interesting. How many people in the UK actually play baseball to have organised a game, at 2.00am etc etc.
Where I used to work up East, there was a county wide ban on any glass drinks containers in public places. Lots of moans to begin with especially from those who feared that the Police would be pouncing on a couple who were have a glass of wine in a park while having a picnic. Funnily enough, that didn't happen.
The amount of assaults where people were bottled or glassed dropped considerably.
For some reason that doesn't seem to be in place down here, which surprises me.
If I find someone with a knife, the very least that will happen is that they get a grilling as to why they have it, with possible seizure of the weapon.
If it is obvious to me that they have it for no good reason, they are getting a one way blue light taxi ride.
Discretion and common sense is the name of the game.
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Discretion and common sense is the name of the game.
:clap:
However just out of interest (and not having a go in anyway at anyone ) don't most of these rules cover the carrying of the knife in a public place ??
I have always thought of my car as a private place . only I have a key and only I drive it and only those with my permission can get in. so why can't I carry my knife in it. it's just an extention of my home...
a sealed locked steel box....with wheels. ;)
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I have always thought of my car as a private place . only I have a key and only I drive it and only those with my permission can get in. so why can't I carry my knife in it. it's just an extention of my home...
a sealed locked steel box....with wheels. ;)
Unfortunately, there are Darwin throwbacks that will have a knife in their side pocket, then when road rage takes over their half brain cell they pull the knife and get slashing!
So the Police have to defend against that.
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trying to play devil's advocate on this.
Most murders and assaults involving knives in the UK are carried out using kitchen knives. Can those be banned?
How many people in the UK actually play baseball to have organised a game, at 2.00am etc etc.
Police would be pouncing on a couple who were have a glass of wine in a park while having a picnic. Funnily enough, that didn't happen.
The amount of assaults where people were bottled or glassed dropped considerably.
If I find someone with a knife, the very least that will happen is that they get a grilling as to why they have it, with possible seizure of the weapon.
If it is obvious to me that they have it for no good reason, they are getting a one way blue light taxi ride.
Discretion and common sense is the name of the game.
:clap:
The last line says it all.
I think the real problem is that a lot of coppers do not use discretion or common sense in the fear that it may come back to haunt them later. It is far easier to stick to the letter of the law than to use their own judgement and to leave the decision of whether to prosecute or not to a faceless CPO civil servant who has had no contact at all with the accused.
You should try going through Frankfurt Airport (that's the one that's REALLY fussy about security on UK/US flights, since Lockerbie) with 5lbs of asparagus tied up in your hand baggage. You can imagine what it looks like on the x-ray machines. Fortunately, even the Germans saw the funny side.
That's really funny :D
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stretchy where was this was it by ya house as i can see y u got stopped there cuz of what happened the other week outside the fordrough but i have been stopped b4 an had my car searched for drugs :O purely an excuse as i was young an drivin with 2 lads in the car searched my car an my tool box that was in the boot an found a knife that was at bottom of tool box an b4 u know it there was another 4 police cars turn up luckly i had a couple of decent coppers there an once i explained the knife was for work its in the bottom of a tool box they let me get on my way but it could of gone a whole lot different
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No one still has explained why locking blades were outlawed?
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No one still has explained why locking blades were outlawed?
I have to say I don't know, but if you think that gravity knives and flick knives lock the blades, that would proably be the answer.
In relation to Lee Celtic's query about the car being a private place, ie classed as a dwelling, that is not the case. If it is the public domain, namely not on private land, then it becomes the same as a person, namely open to search, under the correct powers of course.
The only time it may be classed as a dwelling, is if the person in it is of no fixed address, which is not that often.
It can also depend under what power the search is being carried out as to where, when and what can be searched.
It is very difficult to try and explain accurately in a few short words how it works.
It confuses the hell out of me sometimes and I work with the law! :?
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No one still has explained why locking blades were outlawed?
Nor what he's fishing for with a 7" blade.... :-k
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Hang on a minute: since we banned handguns, gun-crime has increased. Since we started this crusade against knives, knife-crime has increased...
I can't quite put my finger on it, but I'm sure there's some sort of pattern forming there... :-k
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The locking knife part baffles me too.
I have a swiss army knife with a non-locking blade under 3in. I believe driving a 13 year old car and working with computer hardware to be legitimate reasons for carrying such a tool, as it's a lot easier to just flip the screwdriver part out than it is to rummage around for a proper screwdriver. Everyone should carry basic hand tools, especially if they regularly travel through remote areas.
However, I also have a little keyring knife bought from an outdoor chain store. This has a blade of just over an inch in length, but as it locks it's illegal to carry in public (so I don't - it lives in the back of my wardrobe with the other outdoorsy tools).
You could do a lot more damage with a swiss army knife than with that little blade. You could do a lot more damage with a brick than with either blade. But a blade little more than double the length of your thumbnail is illegal simply because it locks...
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I seem to remember a thread not long ago about knifes in the car , after reading that thread I added a knife to my keyring so if the car rolls I can cut the seat belt (you can reach the ignition to get the keyring) I think the idea came from LSP :-k
how would a pen knife attached to your keys go down ???
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I had a 7 inch blade maybe biger becuase thats what it is. its an all round survival tool. it has a compass on the handle a saw on the back of the blade first aid kit and matches and fishing stuf in the handle. becaus of the weight of it you can use it as machetie althogh its relativly small in theas types of knifes. I got this knife from a freind who runs a gun shop and knows the law inside out on knifes and has the police in reguler. he is still selling lock knifes btw so whats going on ther I dont know. I mean think about it a sak blade locks into place and they are sold all over the place. he wouldent jepadise his well istablished bisiness if he knew they where iligal. are you sure you dont all mean flick knife?? he also asures me that as long as I have good reson to have it ther is no problem. The fact that I just forgot it was ther will be up to a judge to dicide the penalty. whatever that happends to be I will still pack a replacement on the next trip, as someone said earlier its just a blade the best tool invented and its your right to own one. I have been rebaild for 1 week.
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I hope the following may clear up a few points (no pun intended), but wil no doubt raise a few others.
Knife Law
Knife Law Presentation given by Greg Power and Jonny Crockett
If in doubt - ASK!
(Below are the notes from a presentation given by Jonny Crockett and Greg Power at the Wilderness Gathering 2008 and at subsequent occasions.)
This presentation will illustrate significant and relevant points of law concerning the possession and carrying of knives, axes, saws and other sharp objects, with particular reference to the practise of bushcraft and survival skills.
More importantly, this presentation is designed to help members of the public stay within the law.
Knife Law
Manufacture/sell/hire ‘Flick Knife’ or ‘Flick Gun’.
Source: Restriction of Offensive Weapons Act, 1959. Section 1(1).
Offence: It is an offence for a person to manufacture, sell, hire or offer for sale or hire or expose or have in his possession for the purpose of sale or hire, or lend or give to any person:
A) any knife which has a blade which opens automatically by hand pressure applied to a button, spring or other device in or attached to the handle of the knife, sometimes know as a ‘flick knife’ or ‘flick gun’; or
B) any knife which has a blade which is released from the handle or sheath thereof by the force of gravity or the application of centrifugal force and which, when released, is locked in place by means of a button, spring, lever, or other device, sometimes known as a ‘gravity knife’.
Source: Restriction of Offensive Weapons Act, 1959. Section 1(2).
Offence: It is an offence to import any knife as described in s.1(1) and sometimes known as a ‘flick knife’ or ‘flick gun’ and ‘gravity knife’
Powers: Arrestable offence.
Public Place
Source: Criminal Justice Act, 1988. Section 139(1).
Offence: It is an offence for any person, without lawful authority or good reason, to have with him in a public place, any article which has a blade or is sharply pointed except for a folding pocket-knife which has a cutting edge to its blade not exceeding 3 inches. The burden of proving the lawful authority lies with the defendant.
Defences Good reason, lawful authority, it was for use at work,(caretaker), religious reasons and it was part of a national costume.
School Premises
Source: Criminal Justice Act, 1988. Section 139A(1).
Offence: It is an offence for any person, without lawful authority or good reason, to have with him on school premises any article to which s.139 applies.
Defences Good reason, lawful authority, it was for use at work,(caretaker), religious reasons and it was part of a national costume.
Sell to under 18
Source: Violent Crime Reduction Act, 2006.
Offence: It is an offence for any person to sell to a person under the age of 18 any knife, knife blade, razor blade, axe or any other article which has a blade or is sharply pointed and which is made or adapted for causing injury to the person. Razor blades in a cartridge (Bic, Gillette etc) is okay.
Source: Offensive Weapons Act, 1996
Sale of knives and certain articles with blade or point to persons under sixteen
(1) After section 141 of the [1988 c. 33.] Criminal Justice Act 1988 (offensive weapons) there is inserted—
“141A. Sale of knives and certain articles with blade or point to persons under sixteen
(1) Any person who sells to a person under the age of sixteen years an article to which this section applies shall be guilty of an offence and liable on summary conviction to imprisonment for a term not exceeding six months, or a fine not exceeding level 5 on the standard scale, or both.
(2) Subject to subsection (3) below, this section applies to—
(a) any knife, knife blade or razor blade,
(b) any axe, and
(c) any other article which has a blade or which is sharply pointed and which is made or adapted for use for causing injury to the person.
(3) This section does not apply to any article described in—
(a) section 1 of the [1959 c. 37.] Restriction of Offensive Weapons Act 1959,
(b) an order made under section 141(2) of this Act, or
(c) an order made by the Secretary of State under this section.
(4) It shall be a defence for a person charged with an offence under subsection (1) above to prove that he took all reasonable precautions and exercised all due diligence to avoid the commission of the offence.
(5) The power to make an order under this section shall be exercisable by statutory instrument which shall be subject to annulment in pursuance of a resolution of either House of Parliament.”
Public Places
Definition in law of a public place:
This is very difficult to determine but mostly the law defines a public place as meaning any street, road or other place to which the public have, or are permitted to have access. Even if you have to pay to gain entry to a venue it is still a public place.
Examples of a public place
The Wilderness Gathering
National Parks
Forestry Commission land open to the public
Public footpaths
Bridleways
Any area where you do not have to ask permission to walk
The THIS list
Has THIS person got permission
To use THIS article
For THIS use
On THIS land
By THIS land owner.
If “No” applies to any of the above an arrest will be imminent.
The Laws Relating to Sharp Objects, Knives, Saws and Axes.
Violent Crime Reduction Act (2006)
- Banned the sale of knives to the under 18 year olds
Knives Act (1997)
- Prohibited the sale of combat knives
Offensive Weapons Act (1996)
- Prohibited the sale of knives to the under 16 year olds
Criminal Justice Act (1988)
- Published a list of prohibited martial arts style weapons and made it an offence to carry an article with a blade or sharp point in a public place
Criminal Damage Act (1971)
(1) A person who without lawful excuse destroys or damages any property belonging to another intending to destroy or damage any such property or being reckless as to whether any such property would be destroyed or damaged shall be guilty of an offence.
(2) A person who without lawful excuse destroys or damages any property, whether belonging to himself or another—
(a) intending to destroy or damage any property or being reckless as to whether any property would be destroyed or damaged; and
(b) intending by the destruction or damage to endanger the life of another or being reckless as to whether the life of another would be thereby endangered;
shall be guilty of an offence.
(3) An offence committed under this section by destroying or damaging property by fire shall be charged as arson.
Restriction of Offensive Weapons Act (1959)
- banned the carrying, manufacture, sale, purchase, hire or lending of flick-knives and "gravity knives"
Prevention of Crime Act (1953)
- made it an offence to have an offensive weapon in a public place: including any article made or adapted for use for causing injury to any person
What can happen to you if you break the law concerning sharp objects?
Stop and Search, s1 PACE
The arrest procedure will inevitably follow as this is a high profile crime.
Charging
Court
Sentence
Maximum sentence - £5,000 fine and or up to 4 years in prison
Often the worst is yet to come – loss of job, friends, house etc.
Operation Blunt 2
During May and June 2008 the Metropolitan Policy carried out Operation Blunt 2 in London. During this period:
1. 27,000 searches were made
2. 1,214 arrests were made
3. 528 knives were found
Figures from the Met Pol.
Other Figures
During 2007 there were:
1. 22,000 knife crimes including murder, GBH, woundings and robbery.
2. 7,409 in London, 2,303 in West Midlands and 351 in Northumbria so not all in cities.
3. Rural knife crime is on the increase.
Figures from Home Office Press Release 17.07.2008.
Which knives are legal in a public place and which are not?
It is an offence for any person, without lawful authority or good reason, to have with him in a public place, any article which has a blade or is sharply pointed except for a folding pocket-knife which has a cutting edge to its blade not exceeding 3 inches. The burden of proving the lawful authority lies with the defendant. A knife which is capable through manufacture to be locked open or has a fixed blade is thus deemed illegal in a public place.
Advice on Transporting Knives, Axes and Saws
On foot in a public place
Bottom of rucksack – not in lid or at the top
Not on belt or around neck
By car
Not in glove compartment
Not within reach from seats where driver or passengers are sitting – treat knives like firearms
By train and bus
Bottom of rucksack – not in lid or at the top
Not on belt or around neck
By plane
CAA rules dictate that a knife, saw or axe may be carried in the hold luggage but not hand luggage. Some airlines have their own policy on what may or may not be carried.
What can you do to stay within the law?
a. Try not to carry a knife, saw or axe at all.
b. Remember that ‘Just in case I need it’ is not an excuse that will work in a court of law.
c. Reasonable and practicable cause to carry.
d. Carry a knife that is not aggressive looking.
e. Ensure you have permission to carry a knife if you are on private property.
f. Try to have proof that you need /needed to carry the knife.
i. Spoon carving
ii. Documentation to prove that you are on the way to a course
iii. Written permission to use land for bushcraft and survival purposes
g. Whilst in a public place, if you have the need to carry a sharp object, make it as inaccessible as possible.
h. Do not hide the knife under your shirt.
i. If you are under 18, don’t carry a knife in public at all. Use it in situ with an adult supervising.
j. Use a knife that is relevant to the activity you wish to carry out. A machete is not great to take on a fishing trip.
What will happen if we ignore the law?
At the moment there are constabularies working a zero tolerance policy.
This will become a nationwide policy soon.
If knife law is flouted it may become illegal to own some knives and this may include knives traditionally used for bushcraft.
The writing is already on the wall for lock-knives – a few more stabbings and that might be it.
As a hobby or way of life, bushcraft and all its practitioners should set a good example to the rest of the public.
It only needs a few incidents to make the purchase of knives very difficult.
Although ‘most’ stabbings on the news involve kitchen knives – politicians and law makers only see a sharp blade and a handle.
The future of bushcraft is in educating children. Perhaps if we act responsibly they will be permitted to have knives. A situation where it is illegal for people under 18 to own, carry or use a knife is not to big a step away.
Common sense applies to the carriage and use of bladed articles. If in doubt ASK. Every local constabulary has a website that can help, failing that please contact Survival School by way of e-mail.
Ignorantia juris neminem excusat!
Ignorance of the law excuses no one!
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The knife i use is one of a locking type, an opinel.
I have been stopped before with it resting on top of my dashboard.
The officer was not impressed until i told him that i was going into a field of cattle to cut open some bales.
He then asked whether it was a locking knife, i said yes, it stops it closing on my fingers by accident if i get knocked by a cow. To which he said fairwell and went on his way, i think a lot of it depends on the officer that stops you, more rural areas tend to get away with knife possesion more as there is more of a need for them as most of the residents are somehow related to agriculture
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I might be throwing myself open to some comments here but such is life.
I would speak to a solicitor asap on this.
I would be interested to see what it says on the stop/search form that they should have completed. What act / power did they use?
Comments about the need for 6 cops. There may well have been a high knife crime or disorder problem in the area, which would explain what sounds like a van crew.
I'm a bit interested about why they wanted your user name for MC :?
I just find it odd, especially as I always carry a Leatherman on my belt when on and off duty.
Some good advice.
I have carried a knife for over 30 years.
I dont any more as its far to easy to get done for posession.
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Source: Restriction of Offensive Weapons Act, 1959. Section 1(1).
Offence: It is an offence for a person to manufacture, sell, hire or offer for sale or hire or expose or have in his possession for the purpose of sale or hire, or lend or give to any person:
A) any knife which has a blade which opens automatically by hand pressure applied to a button, spring or other device in or attached to the handle of the knife, sometimes know as a ‘flick knife’ or ‘flick gun’; or
B) any knife which has a blade which is released from the handle or sheath thereof by the force of gravity or the application of centrifugal force and which, when released, is locked in place by means of a button, spring, lever, or other device, sometimes known as a ‘gravity knife’.
Some good info there LSP, thanks.
One thing I notice, is the variation of what I call a lock knife and what the LAW call as lock knife?
The way I read the above, is the LOCK knife bit ties into the "Gravity knife" In that the blade is released by gravity then locks into place. This being different that say and Opinel knife where you have to physically PULL the blade out and lock it into place. ??
Does anyone elso see it this way?
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Yeah i agree with that!
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Which is how I would interpret it.
Going by Stretchy's description, I will 'assume' the knife in question will be something like the one below.
There are several ways of looking at this scenario:
1) If I was to find that on someone, they would be eating gravel very quickly, possibly with a smidgin of CS and a bit of baton thrown in, before away to spend a night in our luxury accomadation. I have faced something like that. Not nice in anyway whatsoever. I still get the jitters about it now. The Black Dog frequently snaps at my heels.
2) If I was to find that in someone's car close to them, I would be getting very tetchy indeed, but I would be asking a lot of questions as to why, how, etc etc, before making decisions on the next move.
3) If it I was to find it tucked away at the bottom of the boot amongst tools away from easy access, I would be less twitchy, but would still ask the pertinent questions
For examples 2 & 3, the folllowing factors would come into play.
The subject's previous convictions, if any.
The results of an intelligence check, and I don't mean their IQ.
The time of day.
The location.
The circumstances given by the subject.
What my 'gut instinct' tells me about the person.
PLEASE NOTE: That is how I would deal with it. These views are not in any way those of the Police in general, but just the meanderings of someone who tries to see things logically.
It lies with the person in possesion of the knife to prove they had it for a legal purpose, not for Plod to prove otherwise.
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I am sure that most people don't NEED to carry a knife at all, no matter what size or shape.
The best advise is not to leave yourself open to arrest and only carry one when you have followed the advice in LSP's long list of "what, when and if ".
As far as the cutting of seatbelts in an emergency is concerned, I recall seeing a gadget especially made for that use. It was a plastic body with 2 blades forming a V shape. It was similar to a tool that a lot of people use to cut shrink wrap from palletised goods.
Surely one of those fastened to your ignition keys would suffice ?
Fishing knives ? The only time I ever carried one was when I went seafishing, and it was left in my tacklebox until it was time to gut & fillet the fish on the way back to harbour .... by the time we landed onshore it was back in it's place nice and safe.
When I am course fishing, I can't imagine when a knife would be preferable to a pair of scissors or nail-clippers.
The "survival" type knives on sale seem to be multi-purpose ... blade,saw, matches, fishing line, compass etc etc... ideal if you are halfway up the amazon and in dire straights... but when exactly would you really need that here in the UK ?
Surely a mobile phone and/or a flare would be more use ?
The law as it stands is very clear... anyone with a knife blade over 3" in their possesion deserves to be looked at closely by the plod.
I really can't see a problem with that.
On the subject of tools... any screwdriver could be used as a lethal weapon so will we see those banned too if some lowlife decides that he can carry one instead of a knife ?
The list could go on and on ( a bit like this thread ) but it's all down to common sense from Joe Public and the plod using some initiative and a good old fashioned copper's nose for knowing when trouble is afoot.
Sorry it's been a long reply, I will now keep my gob shut on the subject !
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the important thing to remember is CONTEXT
It is illegal to carry anything that a police officer thinks might be an offensive weapon if you don't have a good reason, this includes, knives, screwdrivers, baseball bats etc.
If you are a chef on the way to work carrying a big knife, thats fine.
If you are a kid carrying a screw driver whilst out on the town, thats an offensive weapon.
Its also important to know that just because a blade is under 3 inches and doesn't lock, its not necesarily legal to carry, again , it is down to the context. If its in your glovebox as an emergency tool, you probably won't have any problems, but if you are the same chav going to the night club with it in your pocket, 3 inches or not, its an offensive weapon.
7 inches seems awfully big to just have in the car like that, and frankly, hollow handle survival knifs are the worst knives imaginable, utterly useless if you ask me but then I've seen them snao and imbed 2 inches from someones leg.... but thats not the point of this thread.
My knife of choice has always been an opinel, the locking blade gives some reasurance but for obvious reason I no longer take it off my own property. In the boot I have a retractable stanley knife (which has a locking blade but you'd be pretty unlucky for a copper to arrest you for that if its in a tool box, if its in your pocket down the pub, maybe...
Incidentally, leathermen knives are considered locking blades. the fact that the plier handles fold up to stop the blade closing make it a locking type.
Good luck with the rest of the legal process, I'd hope with a provable history of fishing and such like, you may get off witha wrist slapping but I don't know enough about the system to offer much more.
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Not having a go, Stretchy, but... you still haven't said why you were stopped and searched in the first place.
It seems that most people are aware (or should be by now) that it's against the law to carry a knife with a blade over 3" for any reason other than previously stated (work, etc.), so to carry a knife with a 7" blade seems to be rather foolish.
whatever that happends to be I will still pack a replacement on the next trip
And to publicly state that you'll be replacing it seems to indicate you've not learned anything from the experience... especially when the police have already told you they will be looking at your posts here! :shock:
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he says he w2ill be replacing it to pack into his camping gear next time he goes. from what he has said before it doesn't look like he intentionally went out with the intent of using it as an offensive weapon, just happened to leave it in the door card.
still, what did you get stopped for?
i carry a big toolbox, axle stands, trolley jack, big bars, a high lift, a cordless drill and an angle grinder amongst other things. and have done in all my land rovers. come in handy alot when i break something, which is inevitable, or someone else break something.
i also carry axes and woodsaws etc. could do a hell of a lot more damage than with a piddly 7" knife.
when im at work i have a foot long machete, a long handle axe, a big bowsaw plus many other 'weapons' but its ok for me to carry them as im working. oh, and i carry a little hunting knife in my pocket for cutting cordage etc.
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he says he w2ill be replacing it to pack into his camping gear next time he goes. from what he has said before it doesn't look like he intentionally went out with the intent of using it as an offensive weapon, just happened to leave it in the door card.
a piddly 7" knife.
hmm, you have an odd idea of a piddly knife...
7" :shock: thats not piddly!!
still, what was the reason for getting stopped?
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Im not sure what time it was now it was around 10 or 11 at night Id been at a pals for a few hours after work and he knew I was going to the tip in the morning so piled some more stuf on the trailer and set home. I think they just wanted to ask what I was up to but as soon as she opend the door she seen the sheath of the knife amongst some gloves and stuf in the poket. as I said like alot of you ther was other 'ofensive wepons' in my car at the time but they chose this becase it looks the most meniceing and will get some stripes when they hand it in down the station. im not against the old politzia in anyway at least we know they are doing there job but as someone said erlier althow this is not the case our vhicles should be private property and aslong as we can legaly buy the itiems keep them in our cars. why is it ok for me to drive home with that blade with a recept but on another acasion be deemed a criminal?
Alot of you are asking why have that with you, althogh I wasent sure it was still ther but I would normaly carry it to have it when needed rather need it and not have it, im sure alot of you can relate to that with your saws, axes, pen knifes, machetie's and other ''ofensive wepons''
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I've had a Victorinox (Swiss army) Champ and a Leatherman Supertool on my belt for the best part of 17 years. Never caught any grief over them. I've asked several plo... policepersons if they are alright to have, but all have said its OK.
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I've had a Victorinox (Swiss army) Champ and a Leatherman Supertool on my belt for the best part of 17 years. Never caught any grief over them. I've asked several plo... policepersons if they are alright to have, but all have said its OK.
You have a Champ on your belt....Are they not a tad heavy.....
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I've had a Victorinox (Swiss army) Champ and a Leatherman Supertool on my belt for the best part of 17 years. Never caught any grief over them. I've asked several plo... policepersons if they are alright to have, but all have said its OK.
Likewise. 6cm non locking blade, in a belt holster. Never specifically asked but as far as I can tell is well within the law.
In the last 24 hours has been used to cut a plastic bottle down to waterproof the dizzy on the Dakar, repair my office chair, open a bottle of wine, and probably a few other things. It's utility is largely down to it's being accessible at all times, and I use it almost every single day. Given the current sensitivity I do tend to leave it at home if going to some kind of "event", but otherwise I carry it pretty much everywhere. It does put me in a slightly difficult situation if asked why I have it - the answer is "in case I need it for something", though I can usually find an example of why in the recent past.
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alrite felas.
update on the old knife fiasco
went to court this morning with a strong mined to go unrepresented and plead guilty then hopefully have the chance to say my peace and show my evidence during the pre sentence report. The reason for this was that I had recond the chances of being found innocent for this was slim and that the sentence would be far worse and also I really cant fork out for legal fees for a lengthy trial at the moment. The prosecution got hold of my papers and evidence and was shocked I was pleading guilty when I had such a strong case and told me that even if I did plead guilty the magistrates would not accept it. it would be classed as a Dilatory Plea apparently or something like that, so basically I was made to fight the allegation knowing the sentence would be far worse if found guilty. there was a solicitor who over heard what was going on and grabbed me aside and had a little look at the facts and immediately insisted on tacking this case up and was %99.9 he can win this matter and quickly. he even went back to his office to duble check I had a defence and asured me I do. The court room got changed to another room and he just walked in and said im entering a not guilty plea and then challenged the magistrate in 4 weeks time to come outside and sit in my disco and see if the knife location was visible while driving. to my shock he accepted. I then gave my not guilty plea and was given the choice to keep the case at magistrates or move it to crown with a jury and evrythink. I chose to keep it at magistrates. Thows of you with discos know you cant see the door poket while driving so in 4 weeks the disco will be outside the court and along with my other photos, im not getting my hopes up but it is certainly looking allot better than it did.
what a crazy day.
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what a waste of your time and everyone elses, could have been sorted by the aplication of a little common sense (from the authoritys, not you)
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Exactly, but they are not botherd and never will be with there mercs and free city parking. me, im strugling to find the train fair to get up there lol. I was kinda hopeing this would go no further than the cop shop but seen as its not gone that way il just crack on and hopefully get a good outcome. I dont think the police has helped maters one bit. I mean maybe if they told the truth maybe it wouldnt have gone to court. im not saying they lied but they certanly left out some facts that may have put me in the clear. the fact that you cant see the door poket, she had to go rumaging through gloves and god knows what to get to it, that I was pulled over in a offroader kitted out with verios other tools/eqipment I read there side of it today it says none of this. That indicates to me they was angling for a conviction right from the word go.
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That indicates to me they was angling for a conviction right from the word go.
..what a suprise....
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Good luck - nice to see a solicitor using the intracacies of the law to good effect for the right reasons, rather than to get some fat cat off a drink driving (or similar) charge that he absolutely deserves.
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Was found not guilty today. The exact words was "We have looked at the style of vhecle and genuinely believe you are not guilty and contact the police station to claim your knife back. you are free to go"
How embaricing got a parking ticket as they was about to lookover the disco. hahaaa :dance:
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Well at least someone has some common sense.
Paul
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Common sense prevailed, but what a waste of court time!!
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the police are making it very dificault for me to claim it back, been there 4 times now :evil:
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Property stores usually only open 9-5 monday to friday. Just make sure you have a big bag to put it in, right at the bottom!
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Was found not guilty today. The exact words was "We have looked at the style of vhecle and genuinely believe you are not guilty and contact the police station to claim your knife back. you are free to go"
How embaricing got a parking ticket as they was about to lookover the disco. hahaaa :dance:
Are you applying for costs? as I believe you are entitled to apply for the cost of your defense, loss of earnings for the appearence and reasonable travel expenses.
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Oute "That indicates to me they was angling for a conviction right from the word go."
Thats a terrible pun you realise.
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the police are making it very difficult for me to claim it back, been there 4 times now :evil:
Make sure you do get it back as they like to claim the "right" to destroy knifes, write to the local chief super and push it!
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Got my knife back today guys. arrgghh Im agrovated man... she had a right go at me, she said that they can bring this case back up at anytime and that all the details of the vhecle and pictures of the knife etc have been loged on the PNC and I will be pulled over at anytime. Its been fairly rutine up till today and now I do feel it was personal she was telling me If I dont go straight home with it il be rearested and charged for both acounts and alsorts of stuf like that god that woman is on a serious power trip. I was hopeing it would be a pc that I could talk to and have a chat about and ask questions how I could cary it and still be within the law eg is stoping off at a pals house legal while carying a knife, is ther anyway I could permanantly leve it in the boot in a lock box or something but as I c ouldent get a word in i never got the chance. The police at bornvile lane are full on moreons!!!
anyway this is what it was all about
(http://i712.photobucket.com/albums/ww123/stretch138/18062009445.jpg)
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orr err fancy, looks like the sort of thing you might find in julian clary's cutlery draw :D
surely that is a 'fantasy' blade, maybe the WPC you spoke to was actually the taste police in disguise, did it come with a official star trek Klingon dictionary?
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surely that is a 'fantasy' blade, maybe the WPC you spoke to was actually the taste police in disguise, did it come with a official star trek Klingon dictionary?
PMSL! :clap:
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Seriously stretchy you call THAT a knife, crocodile dundee would p*ss himself seeing that. I would take advantage of any knife amnesty west midlands police have and get shot (under disguise!) Saffy like your style geezer!!! Chris just joking(ish)
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Playing 'Devil's advocate' here, I would be concerned if I found that.
However, without going over old ground, if it is out of the way, and in a locked tool box of some sort in the back of the wagon, I would say you are doing the best you can to avoid further problems. I keep all my off road kit in an old ammo box that is secured.
Have to agree with Saffy though :D
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Stretchy that is not an off roading tool, maybe a 4ft machette could be explained away but not that type of knife, would agree with everyone else leave that at home or destroy it
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well what more can you do, when you need a knife you need a knife so ...
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I honestly can't think of a situation when I would need a knife like that!
Swiss army knife/multitool, yep, I have both. I also carry a couple of folding saws and a small ratchet lopper in the boot when I think they might be handy (setting up events or just laning days). But I can't see why anyone would want that sort of knife.
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The sheath definitely needs an up grade...
(http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3397/3589514597_6b48758bac.jpg?v=0)
Embelished with rinestone strand and skull and daggers trim.
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Who sneaked that picture of LSP going undercover on here.... :lol:
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Who sneaked that picture of LSP going undercover on here.... :lol:
Cheeky [!Expletive Deleted!]! I'll have you know I only use the finest sheaths, made from four doe skins! fnar fnar!
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that is definitely a piddly blade! ;)
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PMSL :lol: quality
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Have you got the ebay number or the ladies phone number saffy,ive come over all unecessary!
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Have you got the ebay number or the ladies phone number saffy,ive come over all unecessary!
urgh! messy!