Mud-club
Chat & Social => The Bar - General Chat => Topic started by: Niel on October 22, 2007, 17:15:11
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New driveway blitz on untaxed cars
Untaxed cars could be removed from owners´ driveways and crushed under
proposed new rules.
Sweeping powers for the DVLA, which would let its staff enter private land,
could affect the two million-plus vehicles sporting out-of-date discs.
At present, the Government can only intervene if a car is parked on a
public road. Commercial contractor NCP Services, which already has an
agreement with the licensing authority to tow and destroy illegal motors,
is proposing the changes. It´s currently in discussion with the DVLA and
Department for Transport. If successful, the new rules will allow its
employees on to your property to clamp, remove or scrap your motor.
An NCP Services spokesman said: "We want access to private property to
remove cars being driven without tax. At present, we know where they are
but can´t get to them."
A DVLA spokeswoman said that law-abiding motorists had nothing to fear: "If
you´ve purchased your road fund licence or correctly applied for the
Statutory Off Road Notification (SORN), there won´t be a problem."
http://tinyurl.com/36rcna
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We want access to private property to
remove cars being driven without tax
If there being driven around on the road and being hidden when not, Then it seems like a good idea.
I have to pay for mine so it seems fair that everyone else should play fair and pay too.
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Rules like this always appear great on the surface, its when some jobsworth uses it to crush your landy parts 'cos some nimby neighbour doesn't like the view from his/her backyard. And quiet frankly the ruling will do nothing to deter those determind to break the law, just penalise the generaly law abiding among us. I'm for enforcing existing legislation fairly, not introducing new rules to improve the crime solving statistics. This used to be a free and democratic nation which tolorated individuality!
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Err No
The DVLA are a bunch of utter imcompetants when it comes to paperwork and the law is to damn vague as it is.
Scenario 1) I sorn my car, pop it on my driveway and they turn up and remove it because the DVLA/PO have lost the sorn before it gets to the point I'm worried about it not having arrived.
Scenario 2) I buy a new car for a project, park it up knowing I have 6 months SORN left, a week later is gone (till recently I wasnt aware you had to re sorn any car you purchased if it had time left or not)
These people have no right at all to enter my properly and in the situation they tried they would find problems with doing so. Might be time to start rawbolting things into the drive.
Yes all good an well them going for illegal cars that are being driven but given their history...
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if they know these vehicles are being driven ,then why not wait for the offence to happen ? that way a stiffer fine or prison can be dealt for those driving without insurance or mot too :? kills 2 birds with one stone then
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If it sticks to cars that are evidently being driven on the road then its a good idea.
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hang about a minute...time period for SORN?
I SORNed two VW's on my drive about 2 years ago, they are still THERE (much to the wife's moaning about it), what's this about having 6 months to run? I thought once you SORNed it that was it.
I've had no reminder from DVLA about putting Road Tax on them, or re-SORNing them, so what's this all about?
From the sound of things I'm supposed to remember to re-SORN the vehicles, and with this new thread mentioning they take them away I'm getting a bit worried that they will disappear from my drive one day.
Should I be worried? Should I be re-SORNing every 12 months?
Does DVLA have a duty to remind people when a SORN 'runs out'?
I'm starting to get a nervous twitch here...
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Sorn only last for 12 months. They dont always send a reminder either. I had a fine and had to pay the back tax because I forgot all about the sorn running out on a car Ive got parked up.
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NO! NO! NO! My property and my right to say who comes on it. Get a warrant or **** OFF!!!!
These goverment quangos already have to many powers that are being used irresponsibly.
How about, arresting the owner instead then detain them untill the vehicle is handed over.
Anyway it's not going to make any difference, as soon as one banger has been removed and crushed there will be another parked in it's place.
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Should I be worried? Should I be re-SORNing every 12 months?
Does DVLA have a duty to remind people when a SORN 'runs out'?
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Yes, you should have had a reminder. It lasts for 12 months.
Details here http://www.direct.gov.uk/en/Motoring/OwningAVehicle/UntaxedVehicle/DG_4022058
or google "dvla sorn" as that link might not work.
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Just sodding checked the DVLA website, a SORN is for 12 months, and according to V890 they are supposed to send a reminder, and they haven't!
Well, I see an underhand move on behalf of DVLA & NCP here; the public SORN, DVLA doesn't remind, and NCP takes the vehicle away from private drives!
Right, online SORNs for both vehicles about to be undertaken...they'll prolly fine me or something, which would be another scam, since they haven't reminded me, [edit] the lot of them!
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IF THEY GOT RID OF THE ROAD TAX ALTOGETHER AND PUT A FEW PENCE ON FUEL, THEN PROBLEM SOLVED !!!!!!!!!
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Just sodding checked the DVLA website, a SORN is for 12 months, and according to V890 they are supposed to send a reminder, and they haven't!
Well, I see an underhand move on behalf of DVLA & NCP here; the public SORN, DVLA doesn't remind, and NCP takes the vehicle away from private drives!
Right, online SORNs for both vehicles about to be undertaken...they'll prolly fine me or something, which would be another scam, since they haven't reminded me, [edit] the lot of them!
I've not had them before which is kinda what I was angling at.
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IF THEY GOT RID OF THE ROAD TAX ALTOGETHER AND PUT A FEW PENCE ON FUEL, THEN PROBLEM SOLVED !!!!!!!!!
This has been mooted for years and it does in all honesty make a lot of sense especially in a "bash the gas guzzlers" environment.
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IF THEY GOT RID OF THE ROAD TAX ALTOGETHER AND PUT A FEW PENCE ON FUEL, THEN PROBLEM SOLVED !!!!!!!!!
i totally agree
if like me u have more than 2 cars in the family then its get expensive
2 road cars as me and the wife work different hrs
and my offroader which @ best gets used once a month but still have to pay full tax so thats 3 taxes @ 100 quid each
so if the goverment put a bit (more) on fuel id vote for them as im sure most others wud in the same situation
simon
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think you could get them to go for a 'general' car insurance too? then i might be able to drive the zuki and the pug!
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Update
SORN on one vehicle ran out on 01/11/06, and the SORN on the other runs out on 12/12/07.
Apparently, without realising it, or being reminded, or notified, I've committed an offence. Thank you DVLA, I've never broken any laws before, now it seems I can break them in my sleep.
It would appear that, if you had not raised this thread, that one day both cars would have gone missing from my driveway.
I assume they crush them? They'd crush a '68 Beetle (the one whose SORN had run out and wouldn't actually need a fee for a RFL as it's an Historic Vehicle), and a '73 Variant?
I think you're right, you either bolt them to the floor, or hide them in a garage so NCP could be done for breaking and entering.
What a bunch of [edit]!
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It`s all about control, nothing to do with 'catching' offenders.
It will be passed and yet again we will all roll over......Our homes will very soon become a fortress from the authorities, especially when they start using the listening devices on lamp posts...... :wink: :cry:
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If the untaxed car is being driven on the road then catch it on the road.
The DVLA cannot be trusted to watch paint dry without supervision. I'm now having to pay an £80 fine for not decalring SORN on a car I don't own, I sold it a year ago. Because the DVLA never issued a new V5 to the new owner, even though they let him surrender the tax disk when he sold it on.
If they crush you car there is no right of appeal, if it's on my driveway I'm commiting no offence.
HOW MANY CARS HAVE HAD THEIR NUMBER PLATES REMOVED BY PETROL THEIVES?
Stupid over-zelous nanny state government
It's about time they started delivering the stuff they promisse 10 years ago rather than trying to get their hands deeper into my pockets :evil:
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Update
They'd crush a '68 Beetle (the one whose SORN had run out and wouldn't actually need a fee for a RFL as it's an Historic Vehicle), and a '73 Variant?
I know I would! :lol:
Ugly bloomin' things 8)
I hadn't heard about the anomally with acquiring another vehicle and having to redeclare SORN. I have always assumed and never been proved wrong so far, that registering a new owner just rolled it over. You normally still receive the V11 at the renewal time and choose your option.
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They do not have to send reminders!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
I had this with my trialer that I had kept on SORN, The SORN had run out and I recieved a fine in the post.
When I challenged it on the basis of no reminder I recieved a reply that quoted legislation at me. It basically said that they did not have to send reminders, even for actually taxing your vehicle!!
I'll try and find the legislation they quoted at me (I don't have the email any more as I've changed my computer!) and get it on here.
Interestingly my 2a also ran out but I didn't get a fine for that! I assume because it is tax exempt?
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They do not have to send reminders!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
I had this with my trialer that I had kept on SORN, The SORN had run out and I recieved a fine in the post.
When I challenged it on the basis of no reminder I recieved a reply that quoted legislation at me. It basically said that they did not have to send reminders, even for actually taxing your vehicle!!
I'll try and find the legislation they quoted at me (I don't have the email any more as I've changed my computer!) and get it on here.
Interestingly my 2a also ran out but I didn't get a fine for that! I assume because it is tax exempt?
Audi 80 ran out when I purchased it. was 5 months later I found out about the renewal thing and it had since run out 3 months ago and nothing. Got the spanish inquisition at the DVLA when I taxed it though.
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this was my encounter
http://forums.mud-club.com/viewtopic.php?t=32141&highlight=sorn
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http://picasaweb.google.co.uk/nieljohn/NCPDVLARaid
A few photo's of their road side raids earlier this year, as a part-time 'press' photographer I was able to put up with their attempted intimidation, I suspect they'd have tried to have assaulted me and stolen the camera if they'd thought they could have gotten away with it.
As it is I wonder if they do crush them as lifted, of if they are sifted first for valubles/parts, as disposal in commercial scrap yards/metal recycling yards they have by law to drain all fluids etc....
DVLA and NCP's pikey employee's, I wouldn't trust them an inch!
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i got fined around 80 for not sorning
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When my series SORN is due I know it and renew before hand.But if someone appeared at my door trying to grab it out of the garden. One small angry person with large thing that goes bang in my hand telling them to go away in jerky movements.English man and his castle enforced
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When my series SORN is due I know it and renew before hand.But if someone appeared at my door trying to grab it out of the garden. One small angry person with large thing that goes bang in my hand telling them to go away in jerky movements.English man and his castle enforced
The 'Englishman's home is his castle' is a myth and always has been. At the end of the day, the vehicle is still your property. NCP is a private company who are interested only in profit. Any Government service being run by a private company is a dangerous thing. It started with the Police some years ago, with 'Private' sponsorship of various departments. We tried to fight against it but were overuled. Will the last person out of the country please turn off the lights and gas, if the Russians haven't already done it?
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no more tax on fuel, no trying to crush cars!
tax in Guernsey (see British crown dependency (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Crown_dependency)) is 50p a litre, yet mainland Britain pays between £0.80 £1.00 in some areas.
The people on Guernsey also pay tax on fuel. how come our's is so high, for the same grade?
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When does a car actually become a car?
When its registered?
Many, Many race cars must be sitting on private property without sorn or tax, as they have never been registered(ie formulaV, formula ford etc)
As they presumably wont be dragged away and crushed, is it possible to un register a vehicle from dvla, and as such it ceases to be a 'car', and becomes a 'toy'.
If not possible, then I guess theres a lot of toys(quads, argos, racecars, 4x4's, race bikes, drag bikes) that are at risk.
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When does a car actually become a car?
When its registered?
Many, Many race cars must be sitting on private property without sorn or tax, as they have never been registered(ie formulaV, formula ford etc)
As they presumably wont be dragged away and crushed, is it possible to un register a vehicle from dvla, and as such it ceases to be a 'car', and becomes a 'toy'.
If not possible, then I guess theres a lot of toys(quads, argos, racecars, 4x4's, race bikes, drag bikes) that are at risk.
You could well be right, the EU has all sorts of local rules, the Italians I gather cannot own an unregistered vehicle at all, its either fully road legal taxed etc or scrapped....
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So all us that have unregisterd SJ's & Landrover/Rangerover and such risk having our toys stolen and crushed? Its getting worse! There must be some way around it, There is no way i would want to keep my SJ road legal, it costs me enough trying to keep my fronty on the road! :evil:
Guess i will have to get my SJ SORN very quickley :evil: :evil:
Cheers
Mark
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its very simple to de register your car with the DVLA, you merely send the docs to them telling them you have scrapped it!!
If you have an off road toy that will never touch tarmac then do this!!
My trialer will never touch tarmac, it is trailered to events, kept at a mates farm and had no registration marks etc on it any more, therefore it is not enforcable by the DVLA.
I "scrapped" mine after I had the fine from the DVLA for nor renewing my sorn, job done! 8)
If some sad person wants to come and look at engine numbers etc to track if it was scrapped then I will happily show them the trialer and when they notice that the engine number matches the scrapped vehicle then I will simply tell them "thats right, I scrapped the vehicle and used the engine in this one, recycleing at its best" :twisted:
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Mean while if a child is being abused by its family they have to have 17 meetings and go to the courts and ask really nicley if it can be taken from its drug ridden parents.
But dont pay £140 quid or forget to fill in a form about a car and they sound round the heavy mob.
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just a quick question to the knowledgeable here...
i bought my v8 disco last night. there was a misunderstanding and it turns out its not taxed and is sorned. i drove it home last night and its parked on the road outside my house. my insurance will be here forst thing in the morning ( had to pay more for garenteed delivery).....
whats the score with this as i will be taxing it from the first of ths month oct so in essence back dating it.......i belive that if the vehicle is sold the sorn no longer appiles.....is that right and where do i stand on it being on the road for 24hours?
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Dennis
You are at risk for it being clamped. They dont work fast enough to tow it if you sort it out tomorrow BUT they will record the fact its on the public road, this is an offence even if it is SORNed and they'll have you with no way out for you.
In all honesty you would probobly be all right but remeber that people do monitor these forums.
As long as not tax/SORN applies you are fair game,same goes for SORNed but on the road (parked)
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You are breaking the law if it is untaxed & on a public highway...can be towed away :shock: ...whatever your intentions :roll:
A vehicle is sorn'd whether sold or not & dvla will know change of ownership.
As Police Automatic Number Plate Recognition (ANPR) system is linked to DVLA they can instantly tell what cars are not taxed, mot'd etc... They have the power to seize & crush said vehicles...unless you are on the way to or from an MOT in which case different rules apply :roll:
I'd keep it on a drive or private property until you get the tax sorted.
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You are breaking the law if it is untaxed & on a public highway...can be towed away :shock: ...whatever your intentions :roll:
A vehicle is sorn'd whether sold or not & dvla will know change of ownership.
As Police Automatic Number Plate Recognition (ANPR) system is linked to DVLA they can instantly tell what cars are not taxed, mot'd etc... They have the power to seize & crush said vehicles...unless you are on the way to or from an MOT in which case different rules apply :roll:
I'd keep it on a drive or private property until you get the tax sorted.
If he came home Via M27 J11 then he's been snapped already :(
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Only time it can be on the road is if it is on way, or way back from, an MOT test. That's a PRE-BOOKED test too, and you must carry proof of this on your journey.
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just a quick question to the knowledgeable here...
i bought my v8 disco last night. there was a misunderstanding and it turns out its not taxed and is sorned. i drove it home last night and its parked on the road outside my house. my insurance will be here forst thing in the morning ( had to pay more for garenteed delivery).....
whats the score with this as i will be taxing it from the first of ths month oct so in essence back dating it.......i belive that if the vehicle is sold the sorn no longer appiles.....is that right and where do i stand on it being on the road for 24hours?
SSSSHHHhhhhhhhhhh!!!! :-$
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Only time it can be on the road is if it is on way, or way back from, an MOT test. That's a PRE-BOOKED test too, and you must carry proof of this on your journey.
It has to be logged at the MOT station too. So you can't blag it :lol:
He may well have been snapped by the ANPR's but who's it currently registered too :lol: Snail Mail ain't good at the moment
Will all probably be ok but you pays your money & takes your chance :D
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http://www.ncpservices.co.uk/dvla.htm
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:( :( ...god i hate this country sometimes..... i have always been a law abiding citezen.....i have just bought a car that is to all intense purposes legal.... but because i wait on a piece of paper that says im insured i stand the chance of loosing my new car. i will be loosing almost a months road tax anyway which i am happy to do as i dont have anywhere to put the car so it is off the road :evil:
its not like im not going to pay.....tomorrow morning by 0930am it will have tax on it....
i never came down the m27 yesterday day.....i came down the a32 instead from the m3......i used the m1, m25,m3,a32 :wink:
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http://www.ncpservices.co.uk/dvla.htm
No mention of them gaining access to private property there :shock:
Cheers
Mark
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:( :( ...god i hate this country sometimes..... i have always been a law abiding citezen.....
i never came down the m27 yesterday day.....i came down the a32 instead from the m3......i used the m1, m25,m3,a32 :wink:
Your a subject, not a citizen, and the A32 has several monitoring points too, along with the M27 on-slip at J10 IIRC....You have been logged anyway on any motorway these days, and most A roads too...
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http://www.ncpservices.co.uk/dvla.htm
No mention of them gaining access to private property there :shock:
Cheers
Mark
No, not yet, its going on in the halls of power, to be enacted in the usual underhand way buried in some other bill so no-one will raise objections, probably after much greasing of palms to ensure profitablity!
You did notice however that cars taken may not be crushed, but "broken up and recycled"....
Following another line of research NCP Services have been 'setting targets' and paying minimum wages, so seeking out higher value vehicles is likely, esp. if they can get one during the holiday season as most people take 2 weeks holiday and they start disposal after 7 days...
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:( :( ...god i hate this country sometimes..... i have always been a law abiding citezen.....
i never came down the m27 yesterday day.....i came down the a32 instead from the m3......i used the m1, m25,m3,a32 :wink:
Your a subject, not a citizen, and the A32 has several monitoring points too, along with the M27 on-slip at J10 IIRC....You have been logged anyway on any motorway these days, and most A roads too...
I beleive the ROMANSE cams are used for it too :(
You probobly will be ok tbh but if you can get it off the road I would do so.
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I beleive the ROMANSE cams are used for it too :(
You probobly will be ok tbh but if you can get it off the road I would do so.
I know Southampton has dedicated cam's on every entry/exit route, usually on top of the traffic lights, just like most motorway junctions...
If the extra feature's on the overbridge cams and the green pole cams be made live to DVLA/Plod now then its much worse, one type the lot on Segensworth East were playing with (Microsense) could even log tyre depth/wear!
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http://www.ncpservices.co.uk/dvla.htm
No mention of them gaining access to private property there :shock:
Cheers
Mark
No, not yet, its going on in the halls of power, to be enacted in the usual underhand way buried in some other bill so no-one will raise objections, probably after much greasing of palms to ensure profitablity!
You did notice however that cars taken may not be crushed, but "broken up and recycled"....
Following another line of research NCP Services have been 'setting targets' and paying minimum wages, so seeking out higher value vehicles is likely, esp. if they can get one during the holiday season as most people take 2 weeks holiday and they start disposal after 7 days...
Yes, i noticed the recycled bit! As my SJ is probably worthless to most recycled i think i may be ok, but i must add that if a registration mark is not present on your vehicle that is parked on your private property then to identify this vehicle someone will have to break into it :shock: Is this not then tresspassing & criminal damage? :roll: :roll:
Cheers
Mark
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:( :( ...god i hate this country sometimes..... i have always been a law abiding citezen.....
i never came down the m27 yesterday day.....i came down the a32 instead from the m3......i used the m1, m25,m3,a32 :wink:
You probobly will be ok tbh but if you can get it off the road I would do so.
i would if i had anywhere to mate....it would also mean driving it again :( :( i think i will just have to tough it out tonight and just get it taxed in the morning. i dont think this law punishes the ones that dont buy road tax at all..... :( :(
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Does it seem absurdly two-faced and ironic to anyone else?
NCP - National Car Parks, driving around clamping and lifting vehicles off the street, and soon to be breaking and entering for private property?
Does anyone actually use their Car Parks anymore, or have they converted them all to store the high value cars for seven days, before undertaking 'recycling'.
A legalised chop shop? I suppose it gives jobs to all those people they have locked up who used to do it illegally.
Bolt to the ground, take off the Registration Plates, old tax disc, and any identifying marks, or build a shed around it and cover the windows.
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i would if i had anywhere to mate....it would also mean driving it again :( :( i think i will just have to tough it out tonight and just get it taxed in the morning. i dont think this law punishes the ones that dont buy road tax at all..... :( :(
Jack it up on blocks and remove the road wheels, then it's only an obstruction and they can't clamp it. Take the Registration Plates off to really confuse them.
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As I said to Datalas, Thrasher et all earlier.
Criminalise the innocents so everyone is now a criminal, much easier than actually dealing with the real ones.
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Does it seem absurdly two-faced and ironic to anyone else?
NCP - National Car Parks, driving around clamping and lifting vehicles off the street, and soon to be breaking and entering for private property?
Search the details out its 'NCP Services' a demerged company owned by 3i www.3i.com