Mud-club
Vehicle & Technical => Discovery => Topic started by: mentalmoshio sophs V8i on October 03, 2007, 23:31:12
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all set enter now .
has to be value for money
easy to fit
road useable every day
controlable at high speed
poll later for the best set up
oh and the rules
springs no more than 60 quid for a plus 2
shocks well lets say no more than 125 quid better be good un 4 that
front radius arm less than 200 quid
rear trailing less than 150 quid
bumpstop less money the better
brake pipes . can u use the original ones?
lift has to be plus 4 minium
mesure ur travel from the wheel centre to the top arch
is design for fun off road and a cheap sport set up.
total max cost 1200. quid now try mud pluggers
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its always going to be a comprimise, if its articulation your after get a 3 link kit os something but it wont be that great on the road......but then your looking at putting 37s on so thats not an issue for you. i went to llama 4x4 and got his +6(i think) rough country shocks and they seem ok.
dont go for something like the scrap-iron-racing extreme kit, its not that good and it was a copy of equipe4x4 kit......and in all honisty equipe4x4 is a better kit. i think you have to mix and match to get what you want from anything.
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1500 quid or more . not in the running nice try.
but there is a method of 3 link movement for a lot less know how?
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There's loads of options for suspension
If you want great handling on/off road then go for Old Man Emu
If you want articulation, look into the QT kit, that seems to be the best kit on the market
Thats my opinion anyway
:D
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Jake im not going to argue as the qt stuff is good but their 3 link isnt as good as safari gard..imho.
if you want cheap make em yourself. Discos have quite a few limitations...mainly bodywork. If you put your 56 inch tyres on your screwed lol.
for value get 2 inch drop mounts from paddocks as they are cheap get some plus 4 procomps and there you go budget city. if you want more from the rear make some raised mounts and fit + 8 shocks....and big bump stops.
also worth fitting cranked trailing arms...which are good value from equippe...and very high quality.
thats just a start...and dont forget much longer brake lines for your 10 inch lift :wink:
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Jake im not going to argue as the qt stuff is good but their 3 link isnt as good as safari gard..imho.
Neither am i, Its not really my scene tbh :wink:
The Safari Gard stuff looks great and was one of the first to take front articulation to the max.
The only downside with it is the price and getting it shipped from the states.
If i was going to go down that route, thats the company i'd buy from.
Personally, after driving a few motors wth Old Man Emu i wouldn't go any other way with suspension now.
Its simply the best 8)
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lol, i wasnt suggesting it was lol.
ome stuff is very good at giving offroad ability with good road holding you are right there.
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Gwynn lewis / llama4x4 set up on the rear & +2 springs & shocks on the front = job done
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jobs never done :wink:
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jobs never done :wink:
Ain't that the truth
:lol:
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ive got the same amout of travel as the scrapiron kit
at a fraction of the 2k cost :shock:
all in all its gott be around 500 quid to start from scratch, i had most of it already fitted :roll:
now bearing in mind my tyres are 35 inch aswel not tiddly 33's to decieve you :roll:
<edit> (http://forums.mud-club.com/viewtopic.php?t=42831)...mike....<edit> (http://forums.mud-club.com/viewtopic.php?t=42831) :twisted: :tongue: :tongue:
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That's the stuff guys . . . . get 'em flexing . . . . there's those who can and there's those who can't . . . . LOL
:twisted:
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I've got -2 turrets, -2 rear shock mounts, +2 shocks +2 springs, all the arms, extended bump stops and break hoses to go with it which I thought would be the muts nuts, what a fool! don't get me wrong it works well but as Bulli says the jobs never done. I now want to get rid of all the -2 kit which is basically brand new and get taller turrets and rear mounts with something in the region of +6 or more shocks which I assume is something along the lines of what theblueysilverthing is running.
Gav
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thats it girl one for the poll
what about funday kits not comp stuff
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thought i made it too easy now read the rules .
oh photos of system in action and pros and cons score well with me
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ive got the same amout of travel as the scrapiron kit
at a fraction of the 2k cost :shock:
all in all its gott be around 500 quid to start from scratch, i had most of it already fitted :roll:
now bearing in mind my tyres are 35 inch aswel not tiddly 33's to decieve you :roll:
<edit> (http://forums.mud-club.com/viewtopic.php?t=42831)...mike....<edit> (http://forums.mud-club.com/viewtopic.php?t=42831) :twisted: :tongue: :tongue:
<edit> (http://forums.mud-club.com/viewtopic.php?t=42831) :lol:
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(http://members.mud-club.com/galleryimages/46dc2a1ca9ebbcffda259bffb0239f85.jpg)
+2 pro comps on front - £70
Lovells springs +2 £150
LLama4x4 / Gwyn lewis rear shocks & mounts £125
think thats it total £345 for 37" of verticle lift on one wheel & an RTi of 1160
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thats the way why not lower the spring top down 3 inchs so at the bottem on the chassais rail and move the shocks into the middle at 45 degree and youve got 3 links set up for a bit of time welding should give 50 inches at least
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thats the way why not lower the spring top down 3 inchs so at the bottem on the chassais rail and move the shocks into the middle at 45 degree and youve got 3 links set up for a bit of time welding should give 50 inches at least
:?
is there anymore point for more flex?
if i run out at that i engage lockers & carry on!
Also the above is spot on for fast road driving & fast offroad driving,
BTW thats about the max for the rear balljoint :wink:
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i ll try and explain .
if u tyre hits the inner arch thats ur maxium upsweep . all it is the turret trick on the front plus gives lift.
seen moveable rear top hat to keep the same height for road use. they use air rams or nitro adjustable rams.
as for the a frame joint it needs to become a cv joint type.
to give u an idea of travel look at gon2far lightweight one its about the same.
rear trailing arm is the most differcult bit . has to be removed for offroad and on for road use
if u had a drawing of an axle and rear chassais of a of ur truck
i could show where to mount the brace and place on the axle for the shocks
i could draw it in the plan stage.
the springs have to be secured in all the time.
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nah no point at all mike....my hilifts too small...tyres still on the deck and none left!
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right i ll got a 2 lift and fixed rear springs and standard anti bar in place gives 17 inchs drop and 18 lift with 265/75/16. got work to do not sure what
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even so, can have all the travel in the world, no downforce = no traction
thats were that air lockers come in :wink:
i used to have rubbish flex, but i could go further than people with stupid amounts of flex, that spent money on suspention instead of lockers
it does however keep your landy nice and level, and not unstable, thats the only + point of alot of flex IMO
dan
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even so, can have all the travel in the world, no downforce = no traction
thats were that air lockers come in :wink:
i used to have rubbish flex, but i could go further than people with stupid amounts of flex, that spent money on suspention instead of lockers
it does however keep your landy nice and level, and not unstable, thats the only + point of alot of flex IMO
dan
sensible words!
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whats the big deal with lockers??
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right no locker allowed .standard running gear only thank you.
landrover didnt have them for the first 23 years that the way it stays apart from hdc and centre diff lock and tc that all youve got.
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if you want the honest truth you will get further than you can ever drive with a GOOD winch
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You say your springs are "fixed", if by that you mean you've secured them at the top with jubilee clips or something then take them off and fit cones in the top to allow the springs to dislocate.
This will give you an extra inch or so on the drop. It won't increase traction as there still won't be any weight on the wheel but it may stop the unloaded wheel spinning as much.
It's also not a good idea to fix the springs at the top unless you've got near new retainers at the bottom. I see too many springs snap or bend the rusty bottom retainers and dislocate at the bottom instead of the top. Tricky when you come onto level ground and the spring misses the axle!!
Other than than that you're looking at lockers or a winch, as has already been said.
Oh, and I think you'll find that Land Rover have been around for a little longer than 23 years. :wink:
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there is 3 locking holds at the top. with that u can use the original brake pipes also prefer long travel springs or progressive springs. all the springs and shocks was a full new set 18 months ago
was thinkin of adj shocks heights. like on boyracers or high lift amerian ones with cars on 27 inch rims and lower disloate hats but havent looked into it together with a set of shocks mounted at 45deg for rear 3 link movement
i meant from 1946 to 1969 if u include all with out any sort of locker
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winch works well if there is sum there to pull 2
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this custom 3 link in action . oh its on started to come into use at this point not at full travel
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The winch will also work very well with a ground anchor or a tree, you don't need another vehicle there (although it's a good idea :wink: ).
Progressive springs are fitted to the rear of a 300 series Disco as standard but, as I said above, if you're going to anchor the spring to the top mounting then you'll need a good strong plate at the bottom as well. If you don't then the weight of the axle on the plate will bend it and release the spring.
The only way round this is to use some sort of guide at the top or bottom to relocate the spring or get shocks that run out of travel before the springs try to dislocate but then the shocks won't last long.
I've seen the rear suspension "in action", on my own vehicle. This photo was taken before I fitted the cranked trailing arms and I've not gone far enough for the springs to dislocate at the top. :wink:
(http://myweb.tiscali.co.uk/landrovers/005.jpg)
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this custom 3 link in action
thats crap :lol: :lol:
mine goes further on standard front end :lol: :lol:
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winch works well if there is sum there to pull 2
its called a ground anchor, they work a treat :wink:
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its called a ground anchor, they work a treat :wink:[/quote]
not part of suspension is it . no winching allowed thank you
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you really are being stupid here
<edit> (http://forums.mud-club.com/viewtopic.php?t=42831) are you trying to achieve with you land rover ?
instead of making stupid comments just say what you hope to achieve
a challenge truck
funday truck
greenlaner
road going offroad poser :roll:
what ?
and we will advise you on the best solution, instead of you having these daft idea's for your basicaly std discovery
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its a fun day truck . always be in improved and whatever i like the look of i do.
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right, id go
BIN THE 38 IDEA :shock: and get some 35's
get some 3 inch lift springs
fit the gwyn lewis challenge kit ( but instead of +5's get +6's )
cranked rear arms
see how it drives as wether to get from arms :wink:
fit a defender transfer box to resolve gearing
you will have to mod your arches abit but that isnt a great deal of work
depending on what tyre patter you have you will have to uprate the cadbury axles at some point with big tyres ( put it this way, i broke a shaft at idle with my 35inch simex :wink: ...thats how soft the shafts are :P )
there you will have a very capable landy for fundays that will be stable, and wont be on its side more than its onits wheels :roll:
then add too it as and when money permits
next id get a good winch, so when you cant get where you want to go, you can winch yourself there before something breakes
then look at fitting some lockers and shafts which will get you further than any suspention kit will get you, and if you come to stoke, ill kindly demonstrate that for you :wink:
thats my opinion for you, it leaves you with a very sensable, yet capable landy
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hmmmmm, i like what you're saying :D 8) was thinking 33's, but why not go for 35's, or 38's, or 40's or 47.89383834's or 52's.... oh eer, i'll quit being silly, sorry. :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: i think i'll go for 33's.....maybe push for 35 after if alls good. 8) it is just an image thing though
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its not an image thing when you go places where mostly 35's are used....cos you get hung up on your diffs pretty quickly
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yeah, just saying for me. dont intend to do anything like that. just lanes and some play days really. main thing is its gota be good onroad. 8)
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ive got a car for good onroad and 2 bikes, one for very fast on road and the other for fast offroad :wink:
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Poll: none of the above!
I'd go for stock Disco II axles and arms, with possibley a custom watts linkage on the back. Awesome. 8)
Cheers
8)
Eeyore
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errm steve, the rear is effectavly 3 link :roll:
the a-frame ball joint is the 3rd link
:roll:
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errm steve, the rear is effectavly 3 link :roll:
the a-frame ball joint is the 3rd link
:roll:
on a normal set up the a frame is solid to a point which partly holds the axle in place.
mail 4x4 order do one that gives more movement but with a 3 link system only on the back it not so easy to explain.
for a start the rear props needs to have massive slide to cope.
at the centre is of the a frame joint is a type of cv joint which allow alot more movement but is stopped at a point on each slide so u dont get wheel skimmer or rear steer .
at the slide of the a frame joint is a piovet to allow drop on the axle. wish had took some photos of it in action underneath.
with the cv bit u get this much movement.
wheels level is at 12 olock and 6 oclock
which moves max movement one is at 10ish on the clock and 4ish on the clock.
the guy who i know uses this system has work out the angles in degrees of movement yet.
he also has bottem dislote hats on aswell on the rear
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errm steve, the rear is effectavly 3 link :roll:
the a-frame ball joint is the 3rd link
:roll:
on a normal set up the a frame is solid to a point which partly holds the axle in place.
mail 4x4 order do one that gives more movement but with a 3 link system only on the back it not so easy to explain.
for a start the rear props needs to have massive slide to cope.
big lift is need to allow such movement under neath.
tyre size is a other problem because they will hit the inner arch before maxium movement.
at the centre is of the a frame joint is a type of cv joint which allow alot more movement but is stopped at a point on each slide so u dont get wheel skimmer or rear steer .
at the slide of the a frame joint is a piovet to allow drop on the axle. wish had took some photos of it in action underneath.
with the cv bit u get this much movement.
wheels level is at 12 olock and 6 oclock
which moves max movement one is at 10ish on the clock and 4ish on the clock.
the guy who i know uses this system has work out the angles in degrees of movement yet.
he also has bottem dislote hats on aswell on the rear.
he has 109 on a range rover chassais wided body.i say 8 inch lift and 1100r16 xcl tyres on the first time i was this conversion
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http://www.qtservices.co.uk/region.asp?id=339
you mean the qt one that they sell. which has the same joint but with a slightly bigger degree of movement,,,9 degrees....trying looking a little depper rather than believing your mates guff!! pmsl!
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he had it on the ramp at gaydon 2005 for all to see.
okay qt do sell them just saw it on mail order 4x4 in lro that all
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Its still a 3 link system same as standard.
The only difference being the maximum amount of movement before the joint binds.
As for rear steer, a different A frame joint won't stop that as its due to the nature of the limited arc the trailing arms move through. Easiest solution is to make the trailing arms longer and move the chassis mounts further forward.
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qt make em..its stamped on the side.....
sorry if it seems like im constantly flaming you but you can buy the joint from paddocks for about 40 quid....
bullfrog also does one....and you dont need a modifired rear prop unless your lift has moved it towards its limit
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it is a 3 link set up as standard :roll:
you dont need to alter the set up at all on the back :roll:
im still on a std balljoint and have lots of flex :wink:
as for props, that isnt hard to sort, get a wide angle, cures alot of problems in 1 really :wink:
your wasting you time trying to make the rear better,
the rear setup of a lr is fine, its the front that is rubbish, so concentrate on whats more of a advantage, not something thats not going to give you much
sorry but have got some silly ideas in your head from somewhere :roll:
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concentrate on whats more of a advantage
Lockers . . . . for my money . . . . seen what they can do !!!!
Watching this with interest guys . . . . :wink:
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'S no good, I cant hold back any longer :roll:
I guess when you mention a cv joint on the a frame Steveo , that you mean a big ass rose joint(or rod end joint) This is what the likes of Equipe, or anyone else after big movement is using.
Speaking of big movements, you will never get rid of rear steer on the back of a LR product. UNLESS....you tear out the radius arms, and their mounts, and re position em. They are basically a roll steer magnet in standard form.
You seem to be trying to achieve the impossible
(dont tell me that you never know what you might achieve till you try BS)
You wont produce a Disco that drives like a standard truck on road tyres Mon to Fri, then becomes a playday beast on 38's with 3 link on a weekend.
Gearing wont work, suspension will at best be a compromise, speed/power/efficiency will be uncalculatable.
You WILL need a big purse for repair bills, old Landrover parts from your mates breakers yard will do just that. BREAK. You need to spend top dollar on heavy duty drive train components, and even then, if you do get 38's I cant seen the axles wanting to be your friend.
You would have to uprate, then its more grief and expense.
Dont say you wont break stuff cos you dont drive that way. One day you will have to cross a side slope, one day you will cross axle, and just as sure, one day you will hit the skinny pedal a bit too hard, and hear breaking metal music coming from under your truck.
As far a fabbing a home brew 3 link, beware! Its hard to get right in the first instance, and needs to be hellish strong to be safe. How do I know, my zook was 3 linked front and rear on coils, done by me. It worked great off road, but had limitations on road, so the 15000 miles I did in her as a daily drive were done with mucho consideration.
(http://i71.photobucket.com/albums/i153/rollazuki/flex.jpg)
Research is what you need, let the search function be your friend. Get on Pirate4x4(beware, they'll eat you alive) its where the best suspension advice is on the net.
Its nice to have the most extremiest truck etc, but the old adage about learning to walk, etc. before swimming , etc.
You have mentioned that you dont have any issues with diff clearance etc, wait till your driving demands a change, then improve things, dont try to go all the way in one leap, Youll make it undriveable.
Theres guys on here who are ribbing the hell outa you, and if it wasnt for the Mud-Club expletive police, they might be a little more forthright....
If at the end of the day you just wanna go for gold, then just
D O I T !
Dont forget tho:
(http://i71.photobucket.com/albums/i153/rollazuki/worthless_thread_wo_pics.gif)
Go on, go on, you know you want to :wink:
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rollazuki
it wasnt me how wants all this movement the xtremesteam asked me to post this thread. see what everybody used.
oh does anybody have a disco 2 with ace system working on it with a big lift.?