Mud-club

Vehicle & Technical => Defender => Topic started by: ringo on September 24, 2007, 23:08:41

Title: Brakes wont bleed! What ?
Post by: ringo on September 24, 2007, 23:08:41
Dudes,

My brakes wont bleed - there is air in the system (the brakes get better when i pump them).

I have changed the master brake cylinder and pumped soooo much brake fluid through its not funny.

There doesn't appear to be a leak - and i can't seem to get air out of any of the brake cylinders - so where could the air be ?

Has anyone experienced the same thing?

Any ideas on what to do next ?

Thanks

Ringo
Title: Brakes wont bleed! What ?
Post by: GREENI on September 24, 2007, 23:17:31
Have you done it (bled)  in the right order ????

In my honest opinion, from my memory, eeeek,
it should be  nsr, osr, osf, nsf...I refuse to go down to the workshop and look in the manual !!!
Title: Brakes wont bleed! What ?
Post by: ringo on September 24, 2007, 23:20:19
I started furthest away and went closer each wheel!

Is that the correct order ?

God i hope its something as simple as that :)

Ringo
Title: Brakes wont bleed! What ?
Post by: GREENI on September 24, 2007, 23:20:40
See edit version !!
Title: Brakes wont bleed! What ?
Post by: muck_truck on September 24, 2007, 23:22:36
have you tried using a easy bleed ??  makes the job so much easier i find than pumping away at the pedal.  

Always seem to have more sucess that way as well.
Title: Brakes wont bleed! What ?
Post by: ringo on September 24, 2007, 23:36:08
Quote from: "muck_truck"
have you tried using a easy bleed ??  makes the job so much easier i find than pumping away at the pedal.  

Always seem to have more sucess that way as well.


Oh yes - easy bleed all the way - thats why i know i've put so much fluid through!

Greeni - i did it back to front from your version - will that make a difference ?

Thanks for the tip - im not entirely convinced that will be the solution though!

Ringo
Title: Brakes wont bleed! What ?
Post by: GREENI on September 24, 2007, 23:41:11
Look in a manual...it was 2 years when i did mine, worked 1st time....CHECK FIRST though, i could be wrong :oops:  not all you read on forums is true !!!
Title: Brakes wont bleed! What ?
Post by: V8MoneyPit on September 24, 2007, 23:48:23
Hi Rich.

Once you pump the pedal up, is it good and solid? If so, it isn't air in the system. Air will always compress wherever it is in the system and give a spomgy pedal. If you can pump the pedal up to give a 'good pedal', it is meaning the linings are too far away from the metal. Does yours have drums at the rear? If so, I would suggest they need adjusting.

Try clamping all the hoses and try the pedal. If you get an instant pedal, you know the problem is at one of the wheels. Remove one clamp at a time and check the pedal. When the pedal drops to the floor, you know where the problem is.

However, if the pedal is always spongy, try my method as described here:
http://forums.mud-club.com/viewtopic.php?t=49264
It's never failed to work for me.
Title: Brakes wont bleed! What ?
Post by: L90OOK on September 25, 2007, 00:22:47
Quote from: "V8MoneyPit"
Does yours have drums at the rear? If so, I would suggest they need adjusting.


My thoughts too  8)
Title: Brakes wont bleed! What ?
Post by: spinkster on September 25, 2007, 08:04:43
I had the same problem and after much bleeding and cursing and adjusting i ended up changing the servo...........it's as good as you can get on a 110 now!
Title: Brakes wont bleed! What ?
Post by: ringo on September 25, 2007, 09:22:37
Steve,

your a legend as always - i will give that a go at the weekend. What do you use for clamps? I havent got four sets of mole grips!

I will adjust the rear drums first mind ;)

Thanks guys - lets hope its not a servo needed.

Ringo

 
Quote from: "V8MoneyPit"
Hi Rich.

Once you pump the pedal up, is it good and solid? If so, it isn't air in the system. Air will always compress wherever it is in the system and give a spomgy pedal. If you can pump the pedal up to give a 'good pedal', it is meaning the linings are too far away from the metal. Does yours have drums at the rear? If so, I would suggest they need adjusting.

Try clamping all the hoses and try the pedal. If you get an instant pedal, you know the problem is at one of the wheels. Remove one clamp at a time and check the pedal. When the pedal drops to the floor, you know where the problem is.

However, if the pedal is always spongy, try my method as described here:
http://forums.mud-club.com/viewtopic.php?t=49264
It's never failed to work for me.
Title: Brakes wont bleed! What ?
Post by: V8MoneyPit on September 25, 2007, 13:09:55
Just noticed I described a 'spomgy pedal'  :lol: If it isn't a word I think I should start a campaign to get it into the OED  :lol:
Title: Brakes wont bleed! What ?
Post by: Mutz on September 25, 2007, 17:47:59
Steve, i have a brake problem on my 90!
But i was going to ask if your breaking your V8 as you implied you might?
Problem i have is servo doesnt appear to operate the brakes, pedal is stiff to start with, but servo doesnt seem to assist brakes.
Pump sucks at low pressure, if i remove the master cylinder and put cling film on the servo this sucks in again at low pressure. If i push the the plunger on the master it goes in about a quarter of an inch, does all this sound right?
Have been told that servo and pump are working as they should so im stuck now, any ideas?

Graham

 :oops:  sorry Ringo didnt meen to hijack your thread, hope you dont mind?
Title: Brakes wont bleed! What ?
Post by: ringo on September 25, 2007, 17:57:06
Quote from: "Mutz"
:oops:  sorry Ringo didnt meen to hijack your thread, hope you dont mind?


LOL - you go ahead mate - hope you can get it sorted.

I can't do anything till the weekend.....

Ringo
Title: Brakes wont bleed! What ?
Post by: V8MoneyPit on September 26, 2007, 15:06:06
Quote from: "Mutz"
Steve, i have a brake problem on my 90!
But i was going to ask if your breaking your V8 as you implied you might?
Problem i have is servo doesnt appear to operate the brakes, pedal is stiff to start with, but servo doesnt seem to assist brakes.
Pump sucks at low pressure, if i remove the master cylinder and put cling film on the servo this sucks in again at low pressure. If i push the the plunger on the master it goes in about a quarter of an inch, does all this sound right?
Have been told that servo and pump are working as they should so im stuck now, any ideas?

Graham


If you press the brake pedal prior to starting the car, then when you start the car the pedal should sink down after a second or so. If this happens, the servo is operating correctly.

Not sure what the stroke of the cylinder should be, but that doesn't sound out of order.

I've never figured it out, but they can all feel different even though I believe all the servos and master cylinders are the same. My 90's brake pedal feels totally different to the 110 and I remember littlepow's felt different again.
Title: Brakes wont bleed! What ?
Post by: ringo on September 28, 2007, 17:11:08
Well, i feel relieved and silly at the same time. :oops:

Adjusting the rear drums did the trick!

Thanks for all your help...

Ringo
Title: Brakes wont bleed! What ?
Post by: Mutz on September 28, 2007, 23:16:03
And mine appears to be the pump; checked the suction against Pondy's and mine comes nowhere near the same.
Title: Brakes wont bleed! What ?
Post by: Range Rover Blues on September 29, 2007, 01:53:23
Sometimes I find it helps to bleed some air out of the brake pipe unions at the master cylinder first before going to the wheel cylinders.
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