Mud-club
Chat & Social => The Bar - General Chat => Topic started by: Defender on May 13, 2007, 21:47:07
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Keep an eye out for "Driving me Crazy" on ITV1 at 9:00pm on Monday 15th May.
It's all about how ex-BBC political correspondant, John Sergeant, detests 4x4's. :x
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isn't monday the 14th??
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It is the 14th, and i think he is aiming the program more towards tesco car park 4x4's as opposed to those use in the manner for which they were designed.
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yea true . . . i jus dont understand y they dont descrimiate things like evo's cos they can do 16 to th gallon :? gets confusing some times
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Yes, sorry. Getting my dates mixed up. Was originally supposed to be Tuesday 15th.
Part of the programme was to be about people actually using their 4x4's off tarmac, in particular, Greenlaning, but this footage is not being used now.
How do I know...I had to spend a day in Yorkshire filming with John Sergeant & Mr. Anti-Greenlaner himself, Mr Bartholemew.
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Well if anyone fancies making a complaint after the program.
You can do it here http://www.ofcom.org.uk/complain/progs/
Posted the link on LRUK. Kent off Road & Kent Laning.
It would be nice if we could get 500+ complaints through to OFCOM
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If somebody can diditally record this, i would appreciate as i will be working, would like to watch it tho.
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I can tell you i will not be wasting my time watching it, hopefully the ratings will be very low and it will show them how board everyone is of the subjected.
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It is the 14th, and i think he is aiming the program more towards tesco car park 4x4's as opposed to those use in the manner for which they were designed.
That's how I interpretated the reviews too (in the 'Yorkshire Post'[/b])
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The trailer I saw on TV the other night showed Ed Cobley off road in Vince's D3 !
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The trailer I saw on TV the other night showed Ed Cobley off road in Vince's D3 !
Yes, they took a 'School Run' 4x4 mum to Vince & Ed's place to show her exactly what her 4x4 was capable of.
I did suggest to the producer that they should attend a club level event. An RTV trial or similar. Here they would see some of the 'Chelsea Tractors' being used for what they were designed for.
I know numerous people who use their shiny Disco or Rangey to take the kids to school & do the weekly shopping run, but enter their motor in a trial at the weekends.
At a Red Rose LRC trial at Easter, we had two '07 plate Freelanders & two '07 plate Disco's taking part.
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its on ITV right now.
Its pretty much the usual biased rubbish.
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well all i can say what a set up against us
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Wow i'am convinced i'am going to sell me Land rover NOT!!! :lol: must admit that when it comes to shopping we use the wifes Pug 306 (it fit's in multi storey's) :oops:
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breaking news.
if you drive a 4x4 like a prat then you're quite likely to drive a mini like a prat too.
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The problem is they are saying all 4x4's are bad, but they are only using rich people in their very new type cars, not the general people like us.
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Wow where did they find these brilliant examples of 4x4 drivers?? i think they should stop driving them (there giving us a bad name!!) :? :?
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Is there a John Sargent fan club?? :lol:
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How the hell could someone come away from that much mud, a d3 and of course ed cobley and say they dont want a 4x4??????
Blasphemy!!!
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is it wrong of me to want his head on a spike :?:
all it is, is HIS personal view
i've had to turn off now and go watch kid's swearing instead so i can learn what to call him :twisted:
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i,m sitting here watching this crap on tv, y cant they ask a propper person about 4x4 like me! yes you cant see kids if there placed behind your jeep,
and you can in cars because of the height!
so if we get rid of jeeps does this mean we get rid of busses? how many kids can you place behind a bus without the driver seeing them?
so get rid of vans, trucks, wagons, ect
engines in most jeeps are smaller than most sports cars?
now there blaming the 4x4 for killing the planet! what about planes how much fuel do they use?
we could be here for ever does my head in :twisted:
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Oh Heck we are being blamed for flooding's the weather melting of the ice caps etc. etc.. :shock:
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dreadnought, I think your avatar adequatley describes what we are doing to the world with our gas guzzlers. I for one ran over 23 penguins and an endangered siberian tiger today and I can't be the only one.......
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oh god tell me the driver of the escalade is not on here????
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Have you noticed that the woman who drives the Jeep now moved to the estate car can't see correctly out the rear view screen and in a accident it would all fly forward?? :shock: :shock:
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The accident test is slightly biased, they have not shown anything to compare it to, i.e. what a normal car would do at those speeds.
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no one appears to be questioning why she drives her and her children 2 hours to get to school??? Surely a 2 hour drive to school in ANY car is bad????
and now we're on to the crash test....
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what if she works in kent and its easier for her kids to go to school near her work?
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no I absolutely agree with you, my point is, if they are so desperate to question her lifestyle, why aren't they suggesting the kids go to school closer?? Its totally about attacking her choice of car, have they asked john sargeant how many international flights he makes?
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why couldn't they show an artic hitting a car at 56mph fully laden?
something like this i guess?
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here we go shock tactic's now how much lower can we go?? :? Oh lets go Look at small 4x4's....Oh no we'll look at yank tank's the complete extreme.. :oops:
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TIKI AL ! I've got the spike nice & sharp !!!!I traded in a mondeo zetec s 2.0L for my Terrano, best thing I've done! :D I get better miles to the gallon in the Terrano than I ever got in the mondie, I only got 22mpg in that thing! My wife has back probs & I have probs with my legs , we can now get in & out of the terrano. Mines not much bigger than my dad's astra & alot easier to park at the shops . sorry for the rant
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coming up after the break, 4x4s and why they caused the holocaust, kill kittens and shout nasty names at old grannies.
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Oh send him out in a LHD when he's used to RHD!! i'd get out his way to!!! :shock:
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i hope no one on here drives a 4x4 :lol:
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no one appears to be questioning why she drives her and her children 2 hours to get to school??? Surely a 2 hour drive to school in ANY car is bad????
and now we're on to the crash test....
Time to move house???? :idea: :idea:
Just a load of rubbish. is there going to be a sequal where it has a pro 4x4 presenter..... doubt it :roll:
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Just watched it load of tripe.
Heard it all before
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my friends dad drives 38T lorries, a car pulled out a junction & under the trailler, He said " it felt like going over a speed bump untill looking in his mirrow & there was a flat heep in the road.If they had put a 4x4 against a 38Tonner the same out come would of happened
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If I start my jeep tomorrow morning, does that mean the world will end and we shall die in fire and brimstone? :(vamp):
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just started mine up so the world is ending NOW :(bigsmoke):
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had my rant to ofcom
i really think the views was of the person making the programme and not the general public. i drive a j reg 4x4 range rover classic the emmisions are very low we use this every day and for our hobby and to tow our holiday home it is very versitile i put less in money in my rrc than some one i work with who has a new mini copper, of course if you put children of that size bahind most motors thay will not be seen have any of you ever stoped behind a lorry or bus so you can see his mirror if not try it as if you can't see thier mirror then they can't see you. i think this show was very biased and did not give the two sides of the anti-4x4 situation 4x4's are geared lower so in traffic jams are more environmently freindly than a most estate cars
debbie
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Right thats it i,m going out to set fire to my 4x4.Oh best not as it might wipe out a sml country in a flood that the co2 produced from the fire.
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I just nipped out and started all five landy's :evil:
So if you are reading this you have just missed the end of the world :twisted:
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The kids at the rear was the only valid argument, to be fair.
But you wouldn't see then if you where sitting in a VX zafera
Also any one who reverses at a speed that could knock anyone down needs a kicking anyway
Anyone notice all the so called 4x4 cars where 4 liter plus petrol engines
Typical bias journalists who want to jump on a band wagon for a few bucks.
All stories in the media should show two sides but alas in this free democracy we live in the media rule, and the goverment follow
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i live so close to work now i can easily walk it in 10 mins
for the next month or so i'm going to drive instead :twisted: and go the long way
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did anyone continue on itv after the rantings
"teen boob jobs" what a way to take your mind off it :oops:
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today i started my truck and drove to work...
and killed 12 sweet white kittens,
4 members of some obscure species ive never heard of
and a small unpopulated area of ice...
:evil:
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dont know what is sadder those teens or anti 4x4 people who need to take a good look in the mirror
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probably me for watching both prog's :!:
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Anyone notice all the so called 4x4 cars where 4 liter plus petrol engines
ive just come back from a week in turkey, and i was amazed at the amount of older cars and 4x4's that were petrol and lpg,
and we are talking ford cortinas,fiat 131's renault 12's and the landrover's and the jeeps were also lpg converted, and you think our roads are bad over here !! :D
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By the way was that fella on the anti 4x4 program Jo Brands Dad :?
:lol: :lol: :lol:
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I agree with what everyone has said, its a shambles, is that a cross section of 4x4 drivers then cause there ain't many Escillades up by me :?:
I was worried earlier on when driving the Disco to work that I may have sped up global warning and I either started a forest fire somewhere or maybe a polar ice cap melted - Scary stuff :lol:
Still there is always here: http://www.ofcom.org.uk/complain/progs/
Now do I choose "A specific programme" or "Harassed by jounalists" :shock:
Looking at this, section 7 of the broadcast codes
http://www.ofcom.org.uk/tv/ifi/codes/bcode/fairness/
It's all blah blah blah, hmm hand on....
Principle
To ensure that broadcasters avoid unjust or unfair treatment of individuals or organisations in programmes.
Opportunity to contribute and proper consideration of facts
7.9 Before broadcasting a factual programme, including programmes examining past events, broadcasters should take reasonable care to satisfy themselves that:
material facts have not been presented, disregarded or omitted in a way that is unfair to an individual or organisation; and
anyone whose omission could be unfair to an individual or organisation has been offered an opportunity to contribute.
Is there a case here...... :?:
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Well werent his closing words something like "Noone will change my mind, I just hate them!" Surely that just shows how biased he is :?
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Just put my complaint into ofcom:
Subject: Breach of section 7 of the broadcasting codes.
This programme was completely unfactual and was intended to divide road users with a hate campain of 4x4 drivers. To do this the programme used incorrect facts & name calling. We feel unjustily targeted as a hate figure as a road user. Facts were omitted from the programme i.e. carbon offsets that 4x4 manufactors are now doing and also when size was mentioned, facts were again ommited to show that most 4x4's actualy take up LESS room on the roads than most family saloon, estates. It also showed climate change and tried to persude the viewer that this was caused by 'gas guzzlers' Did they mention that most diesel 4x4's like mine will do 38 mpg, that a lot less than most sports and executive cars, was this mentioned NO. Not so much a gas guzzler now is it? Then there was the child behind the car test. Did they mention that this would also be the case with buses, lorries, vans, taxi's or a car loaded so you couldn't see out of the rear NO.
The crash test was a mid 80's shogan that true is built like a brick but most 4x4's now have been designed better to avoid this, the fact that they sped it up rather than breaking like you would do is again portrays us as killing machines. The cross section of 4x4 drivers were in my eyes selected to show the viewers us as non caring morans who drivers fastly and aggresively. Even the driving instuctor didn't make any allowances for the fact that he wasn't used to that car, size of car etc.
As you say, section 7 of the broadcast codes and I quote:
Principle
To ensure that broadcasters avoid unjust or unfair treatment of individuals or organisations in programmes.
Well in my eyes this has been breached and I would like the programme makers to make a full appology to 4x4 drivers for now making them a figure to be harrased on the british roads.
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1 more to Offcom.
Note, no reference to my vehicle, just to biased reporting.
I believe that the programme as above was Biased, Vindictive and designed to incense hatred towards a specific segment of the population.
The programme had various examples cited against certain individuals however none of the ‘experiments’ had any sort of control.
Drivers were removed from their usual vehicles and shown to be not comfortable driving another car. This would apply to most people.
Drivers who were years out of passing their driving tests were shown to struggle with test manoeuvres. Again had this been repeated with most drivers in most cars the results would be similar.
A ‘visual demonstration’ was used for CO2 production against an ‘small car’. No justification was given to this, we do not know what the small car was and the producers chose some of the largest engines on the UK roads. The fact is that many 4x4’s have lower carbon emissions than many ‘ordinary cars’. A good example is that the Landrover Freelander has a lower carbon footprint than the BMW Mini used in the programme. This is without the Land Rover CO2 offset programme.
If required I could give many more similar examples however I believe that if reasonable and objective person were to watch this programme then these would be self evident.
I believe that the producers and broadcasters should issue a formal apology to affected people and in addition a company such as Land Rover should be given the opportunity to use equivalent airtime to supply more accurate facts based upon equivalent and controlled conditions.
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my friends dad drives 38T lorries, a car pulled out a junction & under the trailler, He said " it felt like going over a speed bump untill looking in his mirrow & there was a flat heep in the road.If they had put a 4x4 against a 38Tonner the same out come would of happened
my friend was hit by a oil tanker last week on a motor way on his way back from bulgaria he was driving a nissan 4x4 which was a total mess but they only had glass cuts
my first coment was glad that they didnt take there bmw as they would have been killed
the tanker driver shook his hand and was glad they were in a 4x4 he said he didnt see them passing him
and they have bought a shogun till the insurance pays out
i like driving my 4x4 and as its a 1988 model on lpg and i do low milage i dont think a biast program is going to change my mind also my family want 4x4s when they pass there driving test and those that drive also have 4x4s we have a disco 2 rangies a shogun a frontera and a fiat panda
and we fly for holidays
so when we have a nice warm spring and summer you can all thank my family for the global warming
(did any one see the program on ch4 a while back the great global warming conspiricy CO2 dont make global warming its a by product of the effects of warming)
when i was at school we were told we were heading for another ice age so what has changed(POLITICS)
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Ofcom is the way to go as enough complaints will make them take action :wink:
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dreadnought, I think your avatar adequatley describes what we are doing to the world with our gas guzzlers. I for one ran over 23 penguins and an endangered siberian tiger today and I can't be the only one.......
Totally Agree! I was the one that Killed the Cow with my Bullbar! :lol:
And what i would like to know is?
Did the Producers of this Programme get Permission from FIFTH GEAR for showing the Crash Test between the Shogun/Civic? :shock:
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Said my piece to OFCOM...anyone counting....?
I was appalled at the tactics employed by this programme in the way they represented 4x4's.
There were a number of "tests" carried out to "prove" that a 4x4 is bad, one of which was three "representative" 4x4 drivers reversing around a corner. The programmes argument was that the fact that the vehicle was a 4x4 was the cause of two drivers failing this manouvre. I believe this represents clear bias as I would argue the cause is lack of skill or attention of the driver.
Further, the programme showed a number of video clips to the three drivers of flooding, forest fires and other weather phenomenon. The argument put to the drivers was that their vehicles were contributing to global warming leading to the demonstrated weather effects. This was omission driven by bias. They failed to give accurate statistics comparing the contribution of 4x4's against that of other vehicles. In particular the fact that many 4x4's are more efficient than some people carriers, executive saloons and sports cars.
The prgramme also regularly refered to the size of 4x4's, building the picture of 4x4'sa as too big for the road (happily for them they managed to find a 4x4 driver with an escalade). They failed to point out that many 4x4's are no larger than typical family saloon's or executive.
I believe in the right of individuals to have an opinion and make that opinion public. I will fight for their right to do so. What I am gravely concerned about is an individual using their access to the media to promote their own opinion thorugh innaccurate, biased arguments particularly when they fail to provide all the information.
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If they made 4x4's as ugly as Mr Sargent then no one would buy them :lol: :lol:
Vince Cobley's got a MUD number plate 8) good on you Vince, nice one 8) 8) Bet they had Ed on the show because Vince would have more than likely told Mr Sargent he was a pillock :lol: :lol:
Are all 4x4's shiny? I mainly see kitted up 4x4's round by me and on the way to work :wink: They easily outnumber the shinies, so why were there none in this program :roll:
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If they made 4x4's as ugly as Mr Sargent then no one would buy them :lol: :lol:
They call them 'Ssangyong's, and very few people do! :lol: :lol:
Cheers
8)
Eeyore
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Bet they had Ed on the show because Vince would have more than likely told Mr Sargent he was a pillock :lol: :lol:
And I bet John Carrol said a whole lot more than the five words they edited in!!!
:roll: :roll: :roll:
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I bet they edited alot out he would of shot the program to bits
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Well I've logged my complaints with OFCOM and ITV.
Program was a complete pile of (insert own expleative here)
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The justification for making this one hour prog was summed up by his last statement "I'm Not biased, I just don't like them" ???????????? A very balanced bit of reasoning then, and how much did that cost ITV?
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So this is the same programme that wanted our input???? Sounds like they put the pro 4x4 arguments to good use .... NOT!
http://forums.mud-club.com/viewtopic.php?t=28985
If you skip to the end if this thread....
Did JeepRikk get on the programme?
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Another complaint sent to OFCOM and ITV1. :(bigangry): :(bigangry):
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My complaints to ofcom and itv sent through today... :evil:
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This is my letter to ITV:
I just thought I would let you know that I have registered a complait with ofcom regarding the above programme. I was digusted with the way it was biased and misleading with incorrect facts and experiments that are out of date. This was a clear breach of section 7 of the television broadcast codes. Lets take the crash test, conducted on mid 1980 cars that have very limited safety devices compaired to moderm cars. There was no mention that the children who stood behind the 4x4 could also not be seen or potential killed head on with other vechiles like taxis,mpvs,lorrys,vans, the list goes on. Then there is the climate change, No.1 thing for climate change are aeroplanes, then China with all the smog from old cars that would fail an MOT before its even got near the test centre but again its 4x4's that get teh brunt of this. Are you aware that most 4x4's have emissions on par or slightly higher than most cars on the road. My 4x4 is actually better for the enviroment that Tony Blairs and the Queens fleet of big engined Jaguars. In fact my 4x4 does more MPG than my old petrol ford focus and the 4x4 is only marginally longer than it.
There is growing support will all 4x4 organisations, clubs and websites about this propergander and we now feel that action must be taken against these unfactual programmes. We expect that a full appology be given with regards to this programme and also a time slot that equals this programme to give our point of view. It's funny that if race is attacked and basically turned into a hate war then all hell brakes loose but it's ok to do the same when it comes to a minority of road users.
I expect a reply from yourselves with 7 days
regards
gareth.
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My Two penneth!
""I would like to express my concern at a program I have just watched called “driving me crazy†on ITV 1. The program was aired to show the problems created by 4x4 vehicles, but it is my belief that the program did not give a balanced outlook on the vehicles and also used “tests†that could not be classed as a true test.
During the program three owners of 4x4 vehicles were asked to perform various tests which included:-
Reversing of the 4x4 vehicle around a corner as performed in a driving test. This test insinuated that the driver would be able to perform this task successfully in a none 4x4 vehicle as they had performed it correctly to pass their driving test. I call serious doubt onto this fact as they were at no time asked to prove they could perform the task in any other vehicle. When any person passes a driving test they perform it successfully because they have practiced and prepared. I believe that anyone that does not reverse in this way on a regular basis would struggle, no matter what vehicle they were in and as such the program used this item in a misleading way.
View from the rear of the vehicle. Again I consider this test to be misleading. I would like to know how many children have been involved in accidents with people driving 4x4’s reversing into them. What is the point in making a comparison if the fact is not significant. Also, imagine the line of children you could have behind any vehicle that has no rear window or a view that is obstructed due to head rests (which are fitted in many “standard†vehicles) or items on the parcel shelf. Lets face it, you could have a Vauxhall Astra van (not very big at all) with no rear window and put an international rugby team behind it and you would not see them either.
As for destroying the climate, surely it is not the type of vehicle you use but the amount of fuel you use in it. You may have the best MPG you can get but if you use three gallons per day rather than three gallons per week who is destroying the climate? I also heard somewhere that of all Land Rovers produced it is believed that 60 to 70% of them are still in use. If this is the case you must also take into consideration any emissions that are saved by not having to produce more vehicles to replace them! The fact is that the program compared 4x4’s to smaller vehicles only and yet sporting and luxury model cars have a fuel consumption to match (or worse than) many 4x4’s.
I own a Range Rover, its quite old and I usually only use it at weekends (I am lucky in that I can afford to run this second vehicle). I do not use it for going to work, shopping, school runs, posing or causing a general nuisance. The vehicle is used for access to a club which would not be accessible with a normal car (however economical it would be) and also to collect dogs from a local animal sanctuary as they will not fit in my car.
It is my belief that the program was made in a manor that will turn people against me when I drive 4x4. I also believe it will encourage some self-righteous people to vandalise my vehicle and act in an abusive manor toward me. And then when John Sergeant used the comment (on owning a 4x4) “is it about sex?â€Â. Well, he may be insecure in that department but I am not, and I do not want a program like this insinuating that the reason I drive a 4x4 is for that reason.
Overall I found the program very offensive in its bias against me. In my opinion this program may provoke people into acts of vandalism, damage, abuse and even possible situations that may escalate into violence. It is my opinion that the program has been made in such a was as to try and provoke a response, which I do not feel is a responsible way for the media to act. It is in this frame of mind that I write this letter and ask that Ofcom take action against the program makers.""
A bit long inded but I did not want to come accross as hot headed.
For the sake of us all, I would ask anyone who thinks they can to make such a complaint as the more complaints the more likely action will be taken.
Regards
Mick
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why cant i wright like that 8) 8)
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The above letter by Dr Strangeglove was very well put together :!: :!:
I feel it says what most of use or I were thinking,It was also written just like the way my dad puts a letter together for me thats frightening :shock:
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Had a reply back from ITV:
Mr Williams,
Many thanks for your email which has been passed on to me by our Duty Office.
Firstly, thanks for taking the time to comment on the programme - we are always pleased to hear from viewers. I am sorry that you thought the programme was biased. “Driving Me Crazy†is a series of personal view programmes and the opinion expressed in each episode is that of its presenter, in this case, John Sergeant. During this exploration we did present a balanced argument with interviews with the editor of 4x4 magazine and a representative from the Society of Motor Manufacturers, who put opposing points of views. John also test drove a 4x4 and chatted to a sales representative to provide another side of the story.
As you have already made a complaint to Ofcom I’m afraid I can’t discuss the individual points made in your letter. I do, however, hope that you continue to watch the rest of the series.
Best wishes,
Yvonne Alexander
Anyone think of a reply back...... :?:
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I watched it and sky plussed it....i'm glad I did as I missed a lot of it shouting at the TV with the wife giving me ear ache not to wake our son up!! I can see everyones problems with the program, yeah fair play, 4x4's on the school run that obviously don't ever go offroad are a bit of a waste of time and are on the whole what give us '4x4 using and abusing' bunch a bad name and bad light in the press, the whole program was mega one sided and the people it showed were to be fair typical urban morons, I liked the fact that the kids standing behind the 4x4 went smaller the furthur they went back, must get a bigger suspension lift so they don't bang there heads on the back bumper!!
The only thing I have got out of it and the only action I am taking as a result of the program is to knock my diesel pump back again (the smoke on booting it must be helping towards the anti's protests when they see it!!)
The whole problem of 4x4 image is only going to get worse and there is only going to be more pressure against us to go out and buy 'normal' cars especially now Mr. Brown is going to be our new decision making man :roll: As long as we all stick together we can fight it (remember the HGV fuel tax protests......4x4's unite!!!!)
Rant Over :lol: