Mud-club
Vehicle & Technical => Range Rover => Topic started by: SebastianW on March 19, 2007, 18:09:55
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Hi, I'm thinking of getting a RRC, but still haven't decided on diesel or petrol. I kinda want to save money, so if I get a diesel I'll run it on veg oil (after fitting the right kit - http://www.dieselveg.com/veg_oil_kit.htm), but I also want some grunt out of my vehicle, which is why I would like a petrol.
I wondered if someone could end this on going debate in my head for me. And also tell me the pro's and con's of each.
Thanks,
Sebastian
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v8 on lpg, auto gearbox - nowt beats it! you get the growl, the similar economy to a diesel and the comfort :D
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v8 on lpg, auto gearbox - nowt beats it! you get the growl, the similar economy to a diesel and the comfort :D
AND you pay alot less, TDi Diesels command a premium price :wink:
also VM diesel has problems and is slow, as for conversions I'm not convinced :?
Steve
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v8 on lpg, auto gearbox - nowt beats it! you get the growl, the similar economy to a diesel and the comfort :D
AND you pay alot less, TDi Diesels command a premium price :wink:
also VM diesel has problems and is slow, as for conversions I'm not convinced :?
Steve
I am about to convert my 1987 3.5efi to a 300tdi. What problems have you heard with conversions?
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But then saying that there is an m-reg tdi rangie round by me with test but no rfl for £1500!!! needs a new bonnet but thats about it from what i have seen :D
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But then saying that there is an m-reg tdi rangie round by me with test but no rfl for £1500!!! needs a new bonnet but thats about it from what i have seen :D
rfl?
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v8 on lpg, auto gearbox - nowt beats it! you get the growl, the similar economy to a diesel and the comfort :D
AND you pay alot less, TDi Diesels command a premium price :wink:
also VM diesel has problems and is slow, as for conversions I'm not convinced :?
Steve
I am about to convert my 1987 3.5efi to a 300tdi. What problems have you heard with conversions?
Sorry I meant the Isuzu/ Diahatsu/ Mazda etc conversions, :oops:
There are some Poorly fitted DIY bodge jobs around :wink:
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But then saying that there is an m-reg tdi rangie round by me with test but no rfl for £1500!!! needs a new bonnet but thats about it from what i have seen :D
rfl?
TAX :wink: Road Fund Licence :wink:
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Thanks for the quick replies.
v8 on lpg, auto gearbox - nowt beats it! you get the growl, the similar economy to a diesel and the comfort :D
I always thought auto transmissions were less power efficient than manuals.
And what makes TDi's more expensive? They're less powerful. Talking about power, what's the BHP from, say, a 200TDi and a 3.5EFi or 3.9EFi?
I want something that will have some degree of acceleration, possibly 0-60 in 20 seconds? or is that too much? I'm not sure. I dont know paticurarly much.
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Thanks for the quick replies.
v8 on lpg, auto gearbox - nowt beats it! you get the growl, the similar economy to a diesel and the comfort :D
I always thought auto transmissions were less power efficient than manuals.
And what makes TDi's more expensive? They're less powerful. Talking about power, what's the BHP from, say, a 200TDi and a 3.5EFi or 3.9EFi?
I want something that will have some degree of acceleration, possibly 0-60 in 20 seconds? or is that too much? I'm not sure. I dont know paticurarly much.
BHP will be well down from 185bhp with V8 and 115ish from Tdi but diesels has bags of torque. The biggest problem I had with the V8 was fuel consumption followed by difficulty water proofing all the electrics.
I believe the Tdi engines are well sought after because of the number of people retro fitting them to TD models etc. Mine cost £500 and was a steal at that price complete with gear and transfer boxes
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But the auto still runs nice, i will still out accelerate a chav in the auto :D thats about as much fun as i get these days, could be why me gearbox is knackered! lol
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haha, great. well as long as I can at least keep up with everyone else my age, in their traditional mini's and peugoet 106's then I'm happy.
I certainly get some odd remarks from some people when I tell them my first vehicle will be a land rover :roll:
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BHP will be well down from 185bhp with V8 and 115ish from Tdi but diesels has bags of torque. The biggest problem I had with the V8 was fuel consumption followed by difficulty water proofing all the electrics.
185bhp sounds nice, but what's the torque rating from the two? do you know?
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BHP will be well down from 185bhp with V8 and 115ish from Tdi but diesels has bags of torque. The biggest problem I had with the V8 was fuel consumption followed by difficulty water proofing all the electrics.
185bhp sounds nice, but what's the torque rating from the two? do you know?
185bhp is for the high compression engines when they are new though. You will not get that from a worn engine. Not sure of torque comparisons, but I'm sure smebody will be along soon with the figures
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I remember reading somewhere about a company (can't remember its name) that refurbishes and possibly makes new engine blocks.
Do you, or anyone reading this, possibly know what I'm on about. And would it be cost affective to do that in order to get the lost power back in the engine?
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I remember reading somewhere about a company (can't remember its name) that refurbishes and possibly makes new engine blocks.
Do you, or anyone reading this, possibly know what I'm on about. And would it be cost affective to do that in order to get the lost power back in the engine?
The easiest power improvement is to fit a 3.9 cam shaft, tappets and timing gear. The lobes wear at around 80k miles. There are loads of companies that will rebuild engine...... at a cost
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how does a 3.9 cam shaft improve power?
and what are lobes? :?:
I know, I really am a newbie! lol :lol:
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how does a 3.9 cam shaft improve power?
and what are lobes? :?:
I know, I really am a newbie! lol :lol:
Yes, any new parts improve the engine to restore power but will give slightly bigger improvement to 3.5 performance, the lobes are the part of the cam that pushes the valves to open them, different profiles of the cam produce different power results as the valves can open longer or earlier/later to improve combustion 8) . All at a cost paid for in more fuel :cry:
3.5 efi 165 bhp 206 ft/lb torque @ 3,200 rpm
3.9 efi '89-92 188 bhp 235 ft/lb @2,600 rpm
3.9 efi '92 -95 181 bhp 231 ft/lb@ 3100 rpm
VM 2.5 '89-92 112 bhp 183 @2400
200 tdi '92-95 111 bhp 195 @ 1800
Earlier carb(petrol) models produce less power, between 125 to 135 bhp and generally have a lower compression engine
Try a search for performance cams and you will get baffled by the tech info, I did :? but you might learn more :wink:
Steve
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Try here for a wealth of info :
http://auto.howstuffworks.com/camshaft.htm
and here:
http://auto.howstuffworks.com/engine1.htm
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ok, thanks for all the info.
there's just one more thing I want to know (then I'll stop with all the questions! :lol: ), and that is, what sort of mpg do you get with the 3.5/3.9 and 200tdi? oh, and what does VM stand for? :?
thanks,
seb
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V8, typically it would be between 10-20mpg. It largely depends on the condition of the engine and vehicle and your driving style. Meanwhile the 200/300TDi will return around 30mpg typically under most driving styles.
VM is an Italian manufacterer who builds engines. The VM 2.4 and 2.5 TD were used in the Range Rovers from the early 80s up to the late 80s and were then replaced by the far better TDi engines.
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ahh right, thanks.
V8, typically it would be between 10-20mpg.
how many? :shock:
So, for me that would be £3200/yr on fuel!
ohhh pooo!
and with the 4x4 tax going up as well. :roll:
how old does a vehicle have to be to be able to be (to be to be to be....) tax exempt?
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<<<<<<<<<< 14-17 mpg but at 41.9 ltr LPG
So rough equiv to 28-34 against price of petrol (better than diesel)
Tax increase is only on cars built (NOT just 4x4's) after 2001 as I understand it. with the major hike on 2006 on cars
Tax exempt is pre 1971 I think, may stretch to 1972.
Steve
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Isn't LPG kinda hard to get hold of? you get it from the petrol pumps the same as diesel and unleaded right?
28-34: well that's a load off my mind. :D
Pre 2001 only? Well that's....odd. I can't imagen why that is myself. :?
A friend of mine's dad is selling a 1988 Rangie 3.5 V8, good condition. I'm not looking to buy right now, but I said I was interested. He's asking for an offer somewhere round £8-900 I think. I just hope he is willing to wait a few months. :)
I was advised earlier not to get a Rangie for off-roading, because it has a wide turning circle and a long wheelbase. Is this true, and if so, is it a problem when going offroad? (supposing I covering all types of off-roading in one)
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With regards to the tax thing, the reason its pre 2001 is they started to monitor the co2 a car kicked out, so the higher the co2 the higher the tax, but because cars previously to that yeah werent monitored so much.
LPG is extremely widely available! check out here (http://www.go-autogas.co.uk/)
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Tax exempt is pre 1971 I think, may stretch to 1972.
The vehicle must be built prior to 1st January 1973 to qualify for tax exemption.
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Tax exempt is pre 1971 I think, may stretch to 1972.
The vehicle must be built prior to 1st January 1973 to qualify for tax exemption.
Is that a constant, or will it be 1st Jan 1974 next year?
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its stuck there, its not a rolling one anymore :(
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well that's silly. why not?
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Ask the current government party that is in power.
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oh, yeh...them. :roll: well I guess I shouldn't be surprised then! lol
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If sanity prevails and the conservative get back in they have expressed the possibilty they will re-introduce the 25 year tax exemption, with modifications possibly.
I think they will spend the first 6 years undoing all the f*** up the current government have instigated. The maybe I can get a proper job again.
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LPG is easy enough to get hold of if you live in a built up area. Once you get an LPG motor you spot them and use the cheapest usually, but if your desperately low, use the more expensive petrol station. Lowest price around here is 38p, highest 45p per litre so they do vary quite a bit. A quick search on Google, etc will give you a list of the local ones.
You can get it at petrol stations but there is the added advantage of suppliers like 'Budget Gas' who often have a pump and tend to be cheaper than the likes of Shell and BP.
I can fill the tank for £28 instead of about £55 so you would be saving a hell of a lot on fuel!
Oh, and there is NEVER a queue at the pump which is great!! :lol:
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If sanity prevails and the conservative get back in they have expressed the possibilty they will re-introduce the 25 year tax exemption, with modifications possibly.
I think they will spend the first 6 years undoing all the f*** up the current government have instigated. The maybe I can get a proper job again.
Bit based :? What about MIRAS and married mans tax? etc,
Anyway,
ONLY 6 years to go if its rolling date :wink:
Steve
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I don't earn enough to pay tax anymore.
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Sometimes I think we'd be better without a government :roll:
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Well I've decided that I'm going to get a petrol rangie.
But now I'm stuck with another conundrum :roll: , auto or manual.
Everyone I've asked says auto, but I've always promised myself that unless I live in a city, I will not have an auto. And I like to be in alot of control of a vehicle and I fear I wont be in much control with an auto. I'm sure that wont be the case, but I do like to change up late and feel the thrill of going up the gears, you know? It's FUN. :lol: :P
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Yes I too used to say if you wanted an Auto you should have your leg sut off first, but I'm swapping the cr****y old Sherpa van gearbox in Blue for an auto.
I'm converted and no-one can give me a valid reason I shouldn't swap, even ignoring the economics of the matter.
The 4 speed auto is a good unit, it will do the miles, locks up in 4th for economy, no clutches to fry, uses the power of either V8 or TDi well, particulary the V8 and quite frankly I don't think I'd be holding the lower gears quite as long as my Auto does anyway.
Add to that I have a knee injury though, so I like cruise control as well
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Well I'm glad to see I'm not alone.
Wont having 4 gears instead of 5 affect acceleration?
What is approx. the power loss you from an auto compared to manual? Does anyone know?
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I don't earn enough to pay tax anymore.
I not married any more :lol: :lol:
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On a manual it's 4th direct, on an auto it's 3rd direct, so roughly speaking there is no 1st gear. Bit autos dont work like that, you have a fluid coupling or torque converter that works like a constantly variable gearbox, so it does the job nicely and when accelerating the gearchanges are much slicker.
Don't know about the power consumed by the gearvbox but there will be some, that's why they are not so good behind a small engine.
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Well I'm glad to see I'm not alone.
Wont having 4 gears instead of 5 affect acceleration?
What is approx. the power loss you from an auto compared to manual? Does anyone know?
You cant realisticly measure it, best to test drive both and make an informed decision for yourself :wink:
My preference is still auto :wink:
Steve
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I don't earn enough to pay tax anymore.
I not married any more :lol: :lol:
Sorry to hear it. Although you seem to be unreasuringly happy about it. :?
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I don't earn enough to pay tax anymore.
I not married any more :lol: :lol:
Sorry to hear it. Although you seem to be unreasuringly happy about it. :?
Times change, now with g/f and newborn son, never been happier :lol: :lol:
Steve
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Ok, thanks all. Well if I had to make a snap decision right now, I think I'd take auto.
SO, vehicle decided, engine decided, gearbox decided. Now all I need is money :roll:
well that's life, I suppose.
Anyone have any recommendations for MTs? :wink:
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Times change, now with g/f and newborn son, never been happier :lol: :lol:
Steve
Well lucky you. :)
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On a manual it's 4th direct, on an auto it's 3rd direct, so roughly speaking there is no 1st gear. Bit autos dont work like that, you have a fluid coupling or torque converter that works like a constantly variable gearbox, so it does the job nicely and when accelerating the gearchanges are much slicker.
Don't know about the power consumed by the gearvbox but there will be some, that's why they are not so good behind a small engine.
Damn autos are complicated! :?
I'm going to have to do some tough-thinking research tomorrow to get to understand them.
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One tiny problem-ette with an V8 is that many MTs are not rated correctly for the speed the V8 is capable of.
Otherwise I'd say Machos are good, BFG are ok.
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On a manual it's 4th direct, on an auto it's 3rd direct, so roughly speaking there is no 1st gear. Bit autos dont work like that, you have a fluid coupling or torque converter that works like a constantly variable gearbox, so it does the job nicely and when accelerating the gearchanges are much slicker.
Don't know about the power consumed by the gearvbox but there will be some, that's why they are not so good behind a small engine.
Damn autos are complicated! :?
I'm going to have to do some tough-thinking research tomorrow to get to understand them.
i did the section on autos at college & think london underground & remove the colours for the piping & routes in the valve block
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Auto gearboxes are like women....... never meant to be understood.
When things are rosey then go with it....... if it goes belly up..... replace it :lol:
Steve
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One tiny problem-ette with an V8 is that many MTs are not rated correctly for the speed the V8 is capable of.
Otherwise I'd say Machos are good, BFG are ok.
BUT, how often are you going to speed over muddy terrain and while rock crawling? You tend to go slowely-ish, right?
Auto gearboxes are like women....... never meant to be understood.
When things are rosey then go with it....... if it goes belly up..... replace it :lol:
Steve
I always strive to understand as must as possible. Including auto gearboxes, and so women included...
...when I can be bothered, that is! :P
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Doesnt matter how fast or slow you drive. a tyre is rated to max speed of vehicle, 102 mph (V8) Insurance company says so :roll:
I have done 102 mph in mine once in 3 1/2 years. apart from it being above the speed limit etc and I on 3rd change of tyres
There are plenty of tyres out there to suit all conditions
Steve
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Oh right, well I'm planning on having a set for purely on-road and a set for off-road. I think I forgot to mention that. :lol:
You dont exactly have to worry about going over 102mph off-road do you? :P So I could just get some on-road tyres that can go fast enough.
P.S. Can a V8 Rangie seriously go 100+? :shock: My Dad's 3.5 90 goes 80mph tops :?
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P.S. Can a V8 Rangie seriously go 100+? :shock: My Dad's 3.5 90 goes 80mph tops :?
Yep :shock: will cruise at 80 on motorway :lol: its all down to the gearing
RR was designed to be more friendly on road than a 90 :wink:
Steve
102 is top speed for 3.5 V8 EFI
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nice. forget defenders, it's range rovers all the way! :D
I found this site about rangies, it's all american, but I guess it cant be that much different to our rangies.
http://www.rangerovers.net/rrspecs.htm
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It's all about what speed the car is capable of, otherwise you could argue they only need to be able to do 70, which is the legal speed limit anyway.
The anniversary Defender 90s with the 4.0L aurto were electronically limited to 100 mmph becasue the BFG at is only rated at this speed for a 7.50 R16 tyre.
Apparently the hot wire EFi is also speed limited anyway, to about 108 for a 3.9 and IIRC 110 for a 4.2.
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ok, yeh. ty
a few things though;
BFG?
how does a Hot wire EFi differ to a...well, EFi?
seb
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ok, yeh. ty
a few things though;
BFG?
how does a Hot wire EFi differ to a...well, EFi?
seb
Different EFI system :wink: To simplify - Early EFI was on 3.5 using what we call 'flapper system' with moving parts. When 3.9 introduced it had better/new EFI system called 'hotwire' with no moving parts
BFG - BF Goodrich Tyre manufacturer :wink: Good but expensive
Steve
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ohh right. thanks steve.
also, IIRC? :wink: hehe
seb
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iirc = if i remember correctly
tyres wise colway mt's are good and not very damaging to the wallet
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Ahh right, thanks.
Well, I have no more questions, you'll all be glad to hear! :wink:
I guess my next step will be to Get a rangie :lol:
seb
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Ahh right, thanks.
Well, I have no more questions, you'll all be glad to hear! :wink:
I guess my next step will be to Get a rangie :lol:
seb
Come on..... you can think of more...... :wink:
Bet you will when parting with the pennies :roll:
Just watch out for the rust and anything that clunks :wink:
Steve
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anything that clunks? :shock:
seb