Mud-club
Vehicle & Technical => Defender => Topic started by: tjolliffe on November 22, 2006, 17:56:41
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Hi all!
I've got a 1986 90, not that it makes any differnce with a track rod but i keep seeming to manage to bend it whenever i take it off-road. Couple of questions firstly, is this common? i cant figure out how the hell i'm managing to do it, the rod sits so close behind the front axle you'd think that the axle would just take a pounding before the rod got it :? . Secondly i havent been able to find anything out there in the way of a guard short of buying HD rods, and they are f*****g expensive!
Thanks for any help!
Cheers, Tom
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Hi Tom, The rod is bending because of the compression forces placed upon it when your front wheels want to go in opposite directions. take it off, go down to a steel stockists & get a piece of box tubing to sleeve the whole rod, weld the ends, job done (probably cost less than a tenner)
Jeff
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two sumo bars for drag link and track rod including two greaseable TRE's for 85 pounds is expensive?
Steve
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Strange, i use mine regually for some relatively serious off road stuff and as yet have never had a problem with the trackrod.
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And where does one get these sumo bars at that cost?
I like the sound of the box section although I have that fitting under the diff that one passes through which seems to prevent too much bending (a dumb arrangement in humble opinion).
Mike
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Firstly I have to say that the HD bars are excelent and around £85 for both bars and three TRE's they are good value (I paid less than that but picked them up from one of the shows earlier this year). There are axle-width box-section protectors which bolt to the axle casing to protect the OE tube but I don't think these are a lot less than the HD bars.
If you keep bending the tube then you are upsetting your tracking, I don't know how many road miles you cover but even being slightly out can knock a lot of life off a pair of front tyres. When I had my tracking re-set earlier in the year (after fitting my HD bars) I could tell something wasn't quite right, I had it checked at a different garage and we found that the original one had set it up incorrectly, not much but it was noticable and of course the tyres would have been scrubbing (I have lost a lot of rubber in the past due to a slightly bent tube). Having the tracking set costs about £20 (checks are free) but in the long run you can save more than that in tyre wear alone.
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Sumo Bars are a trade name and I don't think you can pick them up for under £100 but I might be wrong.
Practically every aftermarket dealer seems to be selling the solid bars c/w TRE's and all seem to be charging about the same (£80-£90 a set), look through the magazines or check out a few of the on-line dealers (Paddocks, LR Parts, Green Oval etc).
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i never had a problem with my trackrod for a year until i wasnt looking where i was going and run into a old boathoust post on the beach :oops:
now got some solid steel ones :wink:
no bending them, just break the trackrod ends instead :roll:
danny
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And where does one get these sumo bars at that cost?
I like the sound of the box section although I have that fitting under the diff that one passes through which seems to prevent too much bending (a dumb arrangement in humble opinion).
Mike
I got mine from Gigglepin 4x4, but as Litch says more or less everyone supplies them.
Bending track rod's is very common smo, especially in wooded areas where they seem to leave stumps at exactly the right height to get an axle and track rod.
Cheers
Steve
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Idler arm, just weld angle along its length
Track rod....BUY SUMO!
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Hi all!
I've got a 1986 90, not that it makes any differnce with a track rod but i keep seeming to manage to bend it whenever i take it off-road. Couple of questions firstly, is this common? i cant figure out how the hell i'm managing to do it, the rod sits so close behind the front axle you'd think that the axle would just take a pounding before the rod got it :? . Secondly i havent been able to find anything out there in the way of a guard short of buying HD rods, and they are f*****g expensive!
Thanks for any help!
Cheers, Tom
Interestng this Tom
I bent my track rod with a heavy landing in Botswana.
How we have no idea but certainly the diff did the damage.
Litch.
Can I not get heavy duty bars with TRE's on all four ends??
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And where does one get these sumo bars at that cost?
I like the sound of the box section although I have that fitting under the diff that one passes through which seems to prevent too much bending (a dumb arrangement in humble opinion).
Mike
Try http://www.sumobars.co.uk/
Peter
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As I thought plus VAT making what is essentially £100 while a bit of steel is well under a tenner.
I agree they are excellent products but at a price.
Mike
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And where does one get these sumo bars at that cost?
I like the sound of the box section although I have that fitting under the diff that one passes through which seems to prevent too much bending (a dumb arrangement in humble opinion).
Mike
Try http://www.sumobars.co.uk/
Peter
Reading that info not available for Discovery drag link with TRE. !!!
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Just a wee note that any box section or angle welded to steering components is an automatic fail if being scrutineered for ALRC events :wink:
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Have a look HERE (http://www.gwynlewis4x4.co.uk/page29.html)
Paul
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Welding of steering/suspension parts is also a MOT fail.
Peter
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I thought the MOT fail was a weld repair/join not adding strength?
Not sure what ALRC is but if it's anythijg like ARC then I'm not surprised. They seem hell bent on preventing people from competing.
Mike
Indeed I've just checked what looks like the MOT manual and found
d. repairs, especially by welding, or evidence that excessive heat has been applied, to steering components or structural members
Note: This inspection also applies to rear wheel steering systems including front to rear connecting shafts d. structural repair by welding to a steering linkage component, or signs of excessive heat having been applied
As far as I can see it refers to repairs by welding althoiugh excessive heat may also apply.
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Welding of steering/suspension parts is also a MOT fail
only if its a repair not giving the same strength, or a modification which could weaken the original part.
A strengthening rib along a shaft could not be deemed to be either of the above.
Just out of interest tho, why is a strengthened steering idler arm/trackrod not permissible in trials? any ideas?
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many track rods bend easily cos theyve been bent before and have been straightened as best as possbile
I found that once I had bent mine on a tree stump then straightened it - I only had to hit a bump with a wheel and that bent it therefter
now i run with solid bars, not the sleeve over type - much much better, no problems since and recommended
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ditto dave
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Well thanks for all the help guys.
For the moment i've just welded a length of box section steel over a new track rod tube and given it some new ends so we'll see how that does, with any luck it will sort the problem, if not i'll try the HD rods and see how i get on.
Starting to think it might be a good idea to invest in some proper laser tracking gear aswell....
Tom
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Heat must not be applied to steering components for any reason whatsoever.
That was a notice in the welding shop where I served my time.
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Welding of steering/suspension parts is also a MOT fail
only if its a repair not giving the same strength, or a modification which could weaken the original part.
A strengthening rib along a shaft could not be deemed to be either of the above.
Just out of interest tho, why is a strengthened steering idler arm/trackrod not permissible in trials? any ideas?
Words from the testers manual or very close to them, as it was a while ago when I was a tester.
Reason to fail. A structural repair by welding or signs of heat applied to steering or suspension components.
It's like every thing it's OK until you have an accident (might not be your fault) then the crap hits the fan.
Peter
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when i bent the trackrod on my old defender, i went to our local steel stock holders, and bought a 6m length of 6mm-wall thickness stainless tube, there is a stock size that slides over your trackrod nicely.
it cost around £50, but you get enough to do the track rod and drag link on two defenders, and make a nice extension tube for your braker bar.
if you bought a quantity, i'm sure people on here would buy what you had left.
...oh, and it looks good aswell, as it stays nice and shiney...
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when i bent the trackrod on my old defender, i went to our local steel stock holders, and bought a 6m length of 6mm-wall thickness stainless tube, there is a stock size that slides over your trackrod nicely.
it cost around £50, but you get enough to do the track rod and drag link on two defenders, and make a nice extension tube for your braker bar.
if you bought a quantity, i'm sure people on here would buy what you had left.
...oh, and it looks good aswell, as it stays nice and shiney...
I don't want a bar over my track rod.
I'm after a nice track rod with both the TRE's screwed into the rod and held in place with lock nuts.
A proper job that's easy to undo the TRE's
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"I don't want a bar over my track rod.
I'm after a nice track rod with both the TRE's screwed into the rod and held in place with lock nuts.
A proper job that's easy to undo the TRE's"
Buy one of the off the shelf options then, i'm very happy with mine.
One of the things I have noticed though is that the slightly dearer variants have flats on the end of the bars that take a spanner, this allows the bar to be properly gripped without resorting to stilsons.
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"I don't want a bar over my track rod.
I'm after a nice track rod with both the TRE's screwed into the rod and held in place with lock nuts.
A proper job that's easy to undo the TRE's"
Buy one of the off the shelf options then, i'm very happy with mine.
One of the things I have noticed though is that the slightly dearer variants have flats on the end of the bars that take a spanner, this allows the bar to be properly gripped without resorting to stilsons.
Where from Litch.
I can get a track rod but not a drag link???? :oops:
Unless............................................... :lol:
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Unfortunately I can't remember the name but they were at the early 2006 Sodbury, must admit I can't recall seeing them at the recent one. They were around the £100 mark (bars only) whereas I paid just £75 for the standard type including three TRE's.
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Litch
LOL Yes I can buy them over the counter like you say with Three TRE's.I want four TRE's.
Anybody know if the LDV TRE's are the same as a Land Rover?
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Why would you want four TRE's?
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probably because he's got a disco drop arm, which uses a TRE rather than the mickey-mouse build-it-yourself arangement found on defenders.
Paddocks do a pair of bars, available for all models, including the disco (with 4 TRE's) for around £85.....
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probably because he's got a disco drop arm, which uses a TRE rather than the mickey-mouse build-it-yourself arangement found on defenders.
Paddocks do a pair of bars, available for all models, including the disco (with 4 TRE's) for around £85.....
Exactly freeagent.Thank's for the Paddock tip.
That's the plan.Discovery steering box.Lower ratio,less turns lock to lock.TRE for easier replacement. :roll: Unless the drop arm is interchangeable ???
It's a gunner job.You know like a rountuit. :lol:
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probably because he's got a disco drop arm, which uses a TRE rather than the mickey-mouse build-it-yourself arangement found on defenders.
Paddocks do a pair of bars, available for all models, including the disco (with 4 TRE's) for around £85.....
Exactly freeagent.Thank's for the Paddock tip.
That's the plan.Discovery steering box.Lower ratio,less turns lock to lock.TRE for easier replacement. :roll: Unless the drop arm is interchangeable ???
It's a gunner job.You know like a rountuit. :lol:
since when have they had a lower ratio?
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Unless the drop arm is interchangeable ???
It's a gunner job.You know like a rountuit. :lol:
Yes, they are interchangeable
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probably because he's got a disco drop arm, which uses a TRE rather than the mickey-mouse build-it-yourself arangement found on defenders.
Paddocks do a pair of bars, available for all models, including the disco (with 4 TRE's) for around £85.....
Exactly freeagent.Thank's for the Paddock tip.
That's the plan.Discovery steering box.Lower ratio,less turns lock to lock.TRE for easier replacement. :roll: Unless the drop arm is interchangeable ???
It's a gunner job.You know like a rountuit. :lol:
since when have they had a lower ratio?
They are higher geared.
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So what are the respective ratios of the boxes then ?
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So what are the respective ratios of the boxes then ?
Don't know but the guy at Adwest told me there was a difference. He suggested to me that if I needed to have a box rebuilt by them to go for a Discovery one as it was quicker.
Paynes doesnt give the ratio.
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I just slid a length of heavy steel tube over mine with a couple of pinch bolts threaded in the side to stop it rattling around. No welding to original, no problem at ALRC events and no more bent track rods. Cost less than a fiver.
Mike
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Defender 4 bolt steering boxes have the same part number as Discovery series 1 steering boxes...
So they are the same then..... maybe?
Cheers
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I've been using a set of Free Spirit steering bars, He hasn't got any listed on ebay at the moment but it could be worth getting in touch with him, http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=130016965635 is a link to a completed listing. But the strengthening of my TD5 110 axle is more important :D
The car does get a bit of abuse on events, reports came back of the car about 3ft in the air at 50mph - she flies and lands well, but I did manage to adjust the shape of the rear bodywork, as well as both axles.
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Defender 4 bolt steering boxes have the same part number as Discovery series 1 steering boxes...
So they are the same then..... maybe?
Cheers
Almost certainly, a lot of steering, axle, chassis,suspension parts are the same on 90, RR and Discovery.
Mike