Mud-club
Chat & Social => The Bar - General Chat => Topic started by: Sharpshooter on November 12, 2006, 17:00:24
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Hi All. Im thinking of getting a winch for the 110. I havnt got loads of money to spare, but wondered what you all thought of these?
http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/Electric-winch-4x4-or-recovery-winches-12000-lbs-12v_W0QQitemZ300047486187QQihZ020QQcategoryZ31348QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem
I can make the bumper no probs. :D
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Wow £18 postage! Well I guess they do weigh a bit :? They are quite near me but unfortunately you arent or I would offer to collect it for you!
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horrible cheap nasty copy of the cheap t-max winch
stay clear as the cheapness wares off soon and bits u up the :roll:
my opinion superwinch epi9, its perfect for generall use i used one on me 90 for a year but now upgrading to 8274
danny
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Thanks for the offer Sleepless.
Biggreen. I cant warrant spending £500 on one to be honest. Maybe if i used it more often, then i would....
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Wow £18 postage! Well I guess they do weigh a bit :? They are quite near me but unfortunately you arent or I would offer to collect it for you!
The one I'm looking at is postage free
http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/Electric-winch-4x4-or-recovery-winches-12000-lbs-12v_W0QQitemZ300047486187QQihZ020QQ
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i shall be buying one of those at some point,
if you look through the listings theres another make of winch that look almost the same and they have a 2 year warranty.
if you make sure its maintained properly it should give you years of service.
no doubt, superwinch and warn ect are 'better' products, but i cant justify spending that kind of money on and old truck.
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bought with bumper as a package and without fairlead and rollers my EP9 cost 300 pounds.
Sealed contacter of EP9 cost 45 notes on their own and are worth the difference for reliability alone.
Cheers
Steve
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you can get a fully rigged epi9 for 420 quid from rebel 4x4
thats rigged everything cables, wire, snatch block, remote
all you need do is fit it
epi9 comes with a albright sealed contactor as std so no canister solenoids to burn out after 2 minutes winching like other winches
just tryna save money for you as you be spending alot more on one of them winches replaces blown gearbox's and solenoids
just aint worth the money
whist the t-max are good budget winches they suffer alot of blown gearbox cases that blow even when not fully loaded
its just my opinion but i wouldrather have no winch than 1 of them as they will fail very quickly and just when you dont want it costing you another few hunderd quid to put right when you could have had a damn good winch for just 150 ish quid more that will last months before requiring a clean up
danny
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hmmm, Rollazuki might be along in a mo but incase not his winch went pear shaped last time out. Had it a few months and hadnt really abused it. When cont the importers they said as the winch had been used for offroad all warranties are INVALID.
Yup thats right warranties arent worth the paper they are written on. Self recovery is not what they are designed for apparantly. So we came to the conclusion of buying cheap is cheaper to replace..... it wasnt one of those but way more expensive...the winch had been underwater but not operated...it was full of crap.
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what winch was it bulli ?
my epi9 lasted 3 events and 4 months of drowning before it died and needed a clean out :shock:
its never let me down :shock:
the huskey gives in with its stupid cannister solenoids before the ep lets go
as for buy cheap replace cheap it costs more to keep replacing than to buy a decent winch that doesnt need anything doing
the brushes have only worn about a 1mm on the motor and armeture is like new
its just worth that extra 200 quid for the peice of mind that its not gonna fail miserably on you
warrantys are only valid on recovery trucks as the dont get used offroad
even the warn warrantys are void if used offroad :shock:
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Wow £18 postage! Well I guess they do weigh a bit :? They are quite near me but unfortunately you arent or I would offer to collect it for you!
The one I'm looking at is postage free
http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/Electric-winch-4x4-or-recovery-winches-12000-lbs-12v_W0QQitemZ300047486187QQihZ020QQ
The postage isnt free...... collection is free or postage is £18 by other courier :?
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Wow £18 postage! Well I guess they do weigh a bit :? They are quite near me but unfortunately you arent or I would offer to collect it for you!
The one I'm looking at is postage free
http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/Electric-winch-4x4-or-recovery-winches-12000-lbs-12v_W0QQitemZ300047486187QQihZ020QQ
The postage isnt free...... collection is free or postage is £18 by other courier :?
twood help if I opened my eyes a bit I suppose :lol: :lol: :lol:
On the subject of cheap Vs dear, I agree that buying cheap is not a good thing if you only have to use the winch once in it's lifetime and it burns out before getting you out then it's a complete waste. However at what stage do you start paying extra just for the name? Because I reckon that is what you are doing with Warn for one.
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warn unless you compete or do very very serious playing i wouldnt bother !
what im saying is from my own personal experiance and past experiances the superwinch epi9 is the perfect general use winch
itll see you through alot of things...ive used it to do 3 tough winch challenge events and alot of heavy offroading for 4 months and it only failed on me cos i was using it whilst it was submerged in mud :shock:
superwinch is a budget winch, but a damn good budget winch at that with a very good reputation behind them !
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Tmax Outback. I guess it had got kinda wet when I think back, and as the supplier pointed out, it aint a submarine!
To be fair , 'tradewinch' have been great and helped me out loads., so Im forever in their debt, but what we do to winches is horrible and abusive.
Id think twice about eblag, from someone you have never met etc. www.tradewinch.com have loads of models, cheap to megabucks, and are grrreat.
Just one word of warning, if you do buy one, and dunk/soak it from time to time, please strip and rebuild with lots of wd40 and grease and stuff. water and muck gets in the damn things everywhere, and if you only use/look at your winch once every month or two(like most of us) then they get full of water and mud and it sits and corrodes, and it STOPS!
If its got soaked, give it some lovin' eh!
Rollazuki
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However at what stage do you start paying extra just for the name? Because I reckon that is what you are doing with Warn for one.
Well i dont for one. i think they make damn good winches, lets face it its horses for courses. Ive had a cheap winch and it was great . It got abused and never quit. My xp 9.5 is way , way , way quicker...doesnt sound like its full of broken glass and pulls way stronger then any other i have seen outside the competition scene. The guys competing use warn most of the time so doesnt that give you a wee hint.
I dont think its the rolex syndrome more the lada v volkswagon......
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My first winch was a GEW 10000 and I had it for about 18 months without problems, not that it was used that much. I can think of 6 occasion when it was used in anger, 3 were towing building site 4x4 forklifts out of bogs in the village!
Then the motor failed while I was trying to recover Tonka Toy from a sand dune. A new motor for this winch is £120 +, about the same price as one for the Warn XD9000 I have on there now.
Sure, the Warn was more expensive but it's a better quality winch, powder coated (not sprayed), has a faster motor, it's quieter and I can get spares at any number of outlets, unlike the GEW.
The choice, as always, is yours but I won't be going for another cheap winch if the XD9000 ever gives up the ghost. :wink:
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Hers a bit of aworry for you ....
http://www.winchtest.com/
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Winch users rarely use their winch to full capacity every time they use them so it is understandable if they have a high opinion of their winch.
Incidently I foresee a lot of "Use plasma you won't get the problem" comments arising from this report BUT I know at least one manufacturer that stats that only the winch wire supplied by them must be used otherwise the warrantry is void and that is superwinch
So if Warn is the same?
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what i think has been said is that NO warranty is valid for what we do.....
i think that test is is some way bogus. I just cant believe that the cable failed so easily when they are made in the land of litigation. If they did fail so easily surely we would have heard of vast legal cases...lets face it if you can get 13.5 mil for pouring hot coffee on yourself imagine how much you could get for lost limb due to line fail.....
just food for though!
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Bulli,
You only have to read the first page to wonder about the report... look at the name of the person who commissioned it... not exactly an impartial party !
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Further to that, I also question thier test rigs ..... aforklift truck? A metal bollard which seems to be a factory safety device? They use that but are able to commision the building of a slope to simulate real world use?
I requested the video which arrived this morning. I haven't watched it yet but when I do I'll report back.
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Just what I was thinking Tim.
If you look, the tests were done in 2001. Now I'm sure that if these were the results of the tests then someone at Warn would have been informed and I hope that any work that needed doing to sort the problems would have been carried out over the last five years.
If the reported failures have continued, don't you think it may have come to light in the general 4x4 press as a winch with a bad reputation for failures?
Plus: I've got a Plasma rope and Albright solenoid pack fitted to it, I know my battery clamps are secure and I tend not to chain my Disco to the structure of a building with a forklift on the back of it!! :wink:
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Bulli,
You only have to read the first page to wonder about the report... look at the name of the person who commissioned it... not exactly an impartial party !
somebody trying to prove a point about a certain winch maybe eh tim :wink:
not metioning any brands but i did find this report some time ago tho whilst looking at a certain hydraulic winch :shock:
danny
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Further to that, I also question thier test rigs ..... aforklift truck? A metal bollard which seems to be a factory safety device? They use that but are able to commision the building of a slope to simulate real world use?
I requested the video which arrived this morning. I haven't watched it yet but when I do I'll report back.
Don't forget that they were testing at maximum tonnage which is something that we'll never do, in fact we'd be more likely to use a snatch block before we got anywhere near that loading.
What they were prepared to do is test to destruction and the wire failed - it shouldn't have failed until around 9 tonnes was applied (twice it's load rating)
Just goes to show that winch makers are prepared to cut corners.
i think that test is is some way bogus. I just cant believe that the cable failed so easily when they are made in the land of litigation. If they did fail so easily surely we would have heard of vast legal cases...lets face it if you can get 13.5 mil for pouring hot coffee on yourself imagine how much you could get for lost limb due to line fail.....
Yes but don't forget this has only been proved in a test lab not in use, when it happens in use then the court case will happen
I know you lot are going to give me stick but why not try it, anchor your truck down and pull the maximum load 4.5 - 5 tonnes whatever your Warn is rated at see what happens :twisted: :twisted: :twisted: :twisted:
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Bulli,
You only have to read the first page to wonder about the report... look at the name of the person who commissioned it... not exactly an impartial party !
iam a bit thick Tim, could you explain
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The report was done for Mr. Richard Aho of Mile Marker, Inc. (as in winches) :wink:
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snatch block....whats a snatch block :lol:
i only use um to change direction of pull :lol:
never doubled up no matter how hard the pull
ive neaver been in a stall situation, only then would i double up
as for damaging motors
dont matter when got facilities to fix :lol:
shouldnt do it really but hu cares if it blows get another :twisted:
danny
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I know you lot are going to give me stick but why not try it, anchor your truck down and pull the maximum load 4.5 - 5 tonnes whatever your Warn is rated at see what happens :twisted: :twisted: :twisted: :twisted:
Why would WE want to, needlessly, try a stunt like that to satisfy YOUR curiosity?
Go buy your own Warn and try it if you believe a 5 year old report so much! :roll:
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I know you lot are going to give me stick but why not try it, anchor your truck down and pull the maximum load 4.5 - 5 tonnes whatever your Warn is rated at see what happens :twisted: :twisted: :twisted: :twisted:
Why would WE want to, needlessly, try a stunt like that to satisfy YOUR curiosity?
Go buy your own Warn and try it if you believe a 5 year old report so much! :roll:
ill do it with me huskey on rear :lol:
my bet is solenoids burn out befor anything breaks :wink:
all wire rope supplied with new winches come with a cert of approval from the manufacturer, so therefor its not warns fault for the rope failure, its the rope manufacturers fault for misleading warn with there dumb figures
danny
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why not look at these
http://.....LINK MODERATED ........
I've looked they're too expensive :lol: :lol:
You're not telling me they're more expensive than Superwinch are you?
My thoughts are on a Champion at the moment probably their heavy duty range
Unless I can get a nice mechanical winch with a Shogun pto
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But Champion's are the same winch as the GEW & KEW range, with different badging, that are made in China.
The same winch that I had before the Warn and who's motor failed after 18 months of not much use. :wink:
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But Champion's are the same winch as the GEW & KEW range, with different badging, that are made in China.
The same winch that I had before the Warn and who's motor failed after 18 months of not much use. :wink:
Basicly copies of the old Ramsey winch - MileMarker also use this design
The trouble with choosing a winch is that no one will give you an unbiased opinion of them the best is always the one on the front of their truck and half of them have never used them in anger
It's like saying a Land-Rover is the most reliable 4x4 - we'd all like it to be true but we know deep down it ain't (otherwise I might consider one :lol: :lol: )
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=D> =D> =D> 8) :lol: :lol:
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I know you lot are going to give me stick but why not try it, anchor your truck down and pull the maximum load 4.5 - 5 tonnes whatever your Warn is rated at see what happens :twisted: :twisted: :twisted: :twisted:
Why would WE want to, needlessly, try a stunt like that to satisfy YOUR curiosity?
Go buy your own Warn and try it if you believe a 5 year old report so much! :roll:
what after reading that report :shock: :shock: :shock: :shock: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:
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why not look at these
LINK_MODERATED_FOR BLATENT_ADVERTISING
I've looked they're too expensive :lol: :lol:
You're not telling me they're more expensive than Superwinch are you?
My thoughts are on a Champion at the moment probably their heavy duty range
Unless I can get a nice mechanical winch with a Shogun pto
They are cheaper than Superwinch. Superwinch is an OEM versio of the Come-up http://www.comeupwinch.com/en/about.php
If you can find a similar spec'd superwinch cheaper i'd be interested to know
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Why not look at a tabor ?
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Mudlark, me old son...come along anytime you fancy and see if my winch gets used.... err i have one- you are thinking of buying one, think i will rest my case there.
Ps ive also got a shogun and its lovely on the motorway, down the shopping centre or whereever my Mrs takes the kids......... :wink:
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I bought a Superwinch (I think, I don't see it that often) onm a removable mount, it's great at holding the backof the truck down but I usually get towed out, it's quicker.
I was interested to see that my "warranty" is invalid becasue I bought it with plasma fitted, but warranties are for lighting fires, the LAW says it must be fit for the purpose for which it was sold, so if it arrives in the post along with a shiny new winch bumper for a Defender /Disco etc then I find it hard to believe the seller assumed you'd only be dragging cars onto trailers :wink:
As for using a snatch block, in the DVD that came with the winch, Dave Bowyer demonstrates single, double and triple line pull on a Defender ebing winched up a slope. The winching speed is similar in all cases because a motor under less load will run faster and draw less current as it's more efficient running at speed./
Now I'm not an expert at winching, far from it. Bulli and 'Zuki I know do a lot more winching and as has been said, all the challenge guys buy Warn.
If it really was just a matter of badge engineering I don't think that would be the case.
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why not look at these
I've looked they're too expensive :lol: :lol:
You're not telling me they're more expensive than Superwinch are you?
My thoughts are on a Champion at the moment probably their heavy duty range
Unless I can get a nice mechanical winch with a Shogun pto
They are cheaper than Superwinch. Superwinch is an OEM versio of the Come-up http://www.comeupwinch.com/en/about.php
If you can find a similar spec'd superwinch cheaper i'd be interested to know
well actualy, come up is the cheaper version of the superwinch, ive spoken to my friend hu is x superwinch engineer at tavistok plant
the come up is made in the same plant, it just depends what colour they want spray it, there is no difference apart from colour,
its like if uno marine engines....mercury mariner are both made by marine power, all they do is choose between a black cowle or a silver cowle and hey presto to differents incomes and ones cheaper than the other, all your paying for is the name, i.e mercury is dearer than mariner cos mercury been round for 40 year mariner on 25
danny
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Now I'm not an expert at winching, far from it. Bulli and 'Zuki I know do a lot more winching and as has been said, all the challenge guys buy Warn.
I know they buy Warn, But why?
They'll all tell you it's because they're the best - but why do they say that, have they all gone through every single winch there is to prove that Warn is the best or are they all relying on what others have told them.
The only way to really know how good something is is to test it to destruction.
Probably the paramount reason I haven't bought a Land-Rover yet, as I see one destructed every time I go trialling (http://mudlark.info/images/smileys/eusa_whistle.gif) (http://mudlark.info/images/smileys/eusa_whistle.gif) (http://mudlark.info/images/smileys/eusa_whistle.gif) (http://mudlark.info/images/smileys/eusa_whistle.gif) (http://mudlark.info/images/smileys/eusa_whistle.gif) (http://mudlark.info/images/smileys/eusa_whistle.gif) (http://mudlark.info/images/smileys/eusa_whistle.gif) (http://mudlark.info/images/smileys/eusa_whistle.gif) (http://mudlark.info/images/smileys/eusa_whistle.gif) (http://mudlark.info/images/smileys/eusa_whistle.gif)
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Now I'm not an expert at winching, far from it. Bulli and 'Zuki I know do a lot more winching and as has been said, all the challenge guys buy Warn.
I know they buy Warn, But why?
They'll all tell you it's because they're the best - but why do they say that, have they all gone through every single winch there is to prove that Warn is the best or are they all relying on what others have told them.
In a lot of cases yes, they have... Alternatively they have been to events where other people have had alternative winches and have seem them perform either better, or worse than their own equipment.
Even a simple pay and play day can provide an education. At burnworthy there were a number of people with come-on winches, and a number with 8274s. Technically equivalent as they may be, the come-up winches were clunking groaning and winding in (not to mention out) at a rate of knots that had them redubbed the come-on winch.
the 8274s were much better, although they did start to suffer from heat exhaustion.
the hydrolic winches that were there proved two things, a power steering pump isn't enough to run one, and as for the other winch it could pull all day, but considering the speed of the darn thing, you quite possibly might be waiting that long.
either way, you take your money, and you take your choice.
For my money I'd be tempted to either go for a nice little tabor, which are cheaper than their cousins but more expensive to repair if it was going to get infrequent use, or I'd save my pennies and get a decent branded one.
Yes, you can harp on as how they're identicle winches, made by the same people and coloured in by a different brand of pigmy, but at the end of the day the same is true of rola cola apparently, and I don't buy that either.
Probably the paramount reason I haven't bought a Land-Rover yet, as I see one destructed every time I go trialling
Do you happen to live under a bridge by any chance :roll:
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/decides now that offering my warn 12k forsale as im going XP power on my 8274 aint the best idea/
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Probably the paramount reason I haven't bought a Land-Rover yet, as I see one destructed every time I go trialling
Do you happen to live under a bridge by any chance :roll:
Why are you saying that Land-Rovers can't handle bridges either? :lol: :lol:
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sorry Mudlark but were you taking part? How did the shogun do?
people break things period, if you are actually DOING the event and not just watching..... like i said b4 way better for the wife shopping but not on the lanes.
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Steady Gents............ :D
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for my 2 cents worth, I reccon that theres a few decent winches out there. From my own personal experience(warn 8274 I wish Id never sold, Superwinch, and Tmax Outback) Id say they can all fail, and will all fail if neglected.
My 8274 could have done with a strip and service, Never pulled the motor down though, so no idea of condition inside.
My Superwinch enjoyed a gearbox strip now and again, and the drum bearings(yeah right) were always full of mud etc. Surprisingly, the motor was bloody well sealed!
My tmax, definitely the prettiest winch among em, has suffered from water ingress into gearbox and motor. It pulls damned well when it pulls, but is dissapointing due to lack of sealing.
Id say whatever you buy, if you immerse it in mud and water, then you'll have grief on a warranty claim, but above all, Id strip and rebuild any new winch, fully grease everything, seal the motor end caps, silicon everything in sight. At least then you are giving the winch every chance of surviving the life we put them through.
Think about it this way, how much time and effort do we spend on trying to water proof our ignition systems, on engines that in most cases would cost less to replace than the price of our new winch? I recon with a little TLC most winches can be good.
Rolla
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sorry Mudlark but were you taking part? How did the shogun do?
people break things period, if you are actually DOING the event and not just watching..... like i said b4 way better for the wife shopping but not on the lanes.
Yes I do take part in trials - only started this year though and the shogun has brought back 3 trophies of the 4 trials I've done so...............
However I am aware that my LWB Shogun is not the ideal for sections set up to be difficult for SWB vehicles and so I'm thinking about building something that fits in.
Won't be Land-Rover based though :wink:
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cool 8) , look forward to seeing the results of your efforts.
well done on getting the trophies, had a look round your site plenty of fun stuff on your piccies section. Come along to the scorpion round thats near you next year... its an eye opener!
still doesnt alter the fact that competitors use warn out of preference and have to fork out their own cash to buy em...no ones on freebies in this country.... like ive said they work... and noone is stupid enough to put 4tonnes through their chassis without being in dire trouble...be the shogun would become 2 shoguns if you tried it!
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cool 8) , look forward to seeing the results of your efforts.
well done on getting the trophies, had a look round your site plenty of fun stuff on your piccies section. Come along to the scorpion round thats near you next year... its an eye opener!
I want to get to all of them and not just to watch (bad enough just having to watch the Southwest Shootout this year) Determined to put the
humble Shogun/Paj in an enviable position :wink:
and noone is stupid enough to put 4tonnes through their chassis without being in dire trouble...be the shogun would become 2 shoguns if you tried it!
Never thought of it like that but I know what you mean. I think the biggest let down of any electric winch would be it's electrics. There should be no excuse for mechanical failure.
When I've thought about winches I've always thought about fitting a mechanical one - power speed and endurance are all there, but it seems like looking for rocking horse sh*t.
Electric winches really come into their own when you have to do a rolled recovery so the necessity for a named winch is not so much required.
I'm always open to suggestions though :lol: :lol: (except for buying a Land-Rover of course)
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the problem i forsee with mechanical winches is that the may be great for moving logs or indeed recovering someone else but if you are recovering yourself you often cannot drive your wheels.
I dont know of one where you can but dont mind being corrected if im wrong there. If you are doing self recovery i find that driving the wheels really does help reduce the strain on the winch. Without drive it would be much easier to stall the winch...and what if your motor isnt working...ie youve drowned it ....your up chocolate creek without a popsicle stick then.
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If I'm right, and I'm only going by what I've read, you can have wheels turning at the same time as the winch. So when you're pulling out you can spin the wheels to get your traction - if you see what I mean - and lesson the load. The biggest problem with mechanical is forgetting to disengage the pto before you move off :shock: :shock:
As for drowning the motor - hey - we're talking Shoguns here not Landies :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:
No that is the reason for the back up electric probably on the back, when you've rolled would get it's most use, a truck should be able to withstand running under water unless you have a very good reason to run petrols on a challenge.
Incidently have you seen the capstain drums that bolt to the centre of your front wheels to winch with?
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the problem i forsee with mechanical winches is that the may be great for moving logs or indeed recovering someone else but if you are recovering yourself you often cannot drive your wheels.
I dont know of one where you can but dont mind being corrected if im wrong there. If you are doing self recovery i find that driving the wheels really does help reduce the strain on the winch. Without drive it would be much easier to stall the winch...and what if your motor isnt working...ie youve drowned it ....your up chocolate creek without a popsicle stick then.
you can drive assist a PTO winch But the wheels will turn at a different speed (faster) than what the winch will go,can modify the drum (make it smaller) to solve that problem
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the problem i forsee with mechanical winches is that the may be great for moving logs or indeed recovering someone else but if you are recovering yourself you often cannot drive your wheels.
I dont know of one where you can but dont mind being corrected if im wrong there. If you are doing self recovery i find that driving the wheels really does help reduce the strain on the winch. Without drive it would be much easier to stall the winch...and what if your motor isnt working...ie youve drowned it ....your up chocolate creek without a popsicle stick then.
you can drive assist a PTO winch But the wheels will turn at a different speed (faster) than what the winch will go,can modify the drum (make it smaller) to solve that problem
I thought that was the case but the wheels turning faster than the winch is no different than a electric winch - at least with a mechanical you can put it in to 5th and wind it in quicker :wink: can you not?
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Maybe i will look out for a secondhand one, with little use. Maybe Superwinch. :)
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the problem i forsee with mechanical winches is that the may be great for moving logs or indeed recovering someone else but if you are recovering yourself you often cannot drive your wheels.
I dont know of one where you can but dont mind being corrected if im wrong there. If you are doing self recovery i find that driving the wheels really does help reduce the strain on the winch. Without drive it would be much easier to stall the winch...and what if your motor isnt working...ie youve drowned it ....your up chocolate creek without a popsicle stick then.
you can drive assist a PTO winch But the wheels will turn at a different speed (faster) than what the winch will go,can modify the drum (make it smaller) to solve that problem
I thought that was the case but the wheels turning faster than the winch is no different than a electric winch - at least with a mechanical you can put it in to 5th and wind it in quicker :wink: can you not?
im not 100% clued up on PTO winches,
Although a Superwing PTo being driven in 4th i think at 2500 RPM has 21 HP going into the winch,where as at most a twim XP 8274 has 12.
Also with a pto winch & also an electric u want the wheels to go at the same speed,specialy if ur in deep as it helps to climb ontop of the surface where as spinning the wheels just digs through
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hmmm 21hp. and you think the wire would be safe...eapecially if we all believe the report???
I beleive the shogun has to be in neutral for the pto to be work. If they were good the challenge boys would do it....and those guys spend their money!
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hmmm 21hp. and you think the wire would be safe...eapecially if we all believe the report???
I beleive the shogun has to be in neutral for the pto to be work. If they were good the challenge boys would do it....and those guys spend their money!
Well you would think so but I think they look to see what everyone else is doing and then copy.
It's like everyone uses Land-Rover but there's few Land-Rover bits on them - If I wasn't so determined to prove that a Shogun or Pajero was better or just as good I'd personally go for a Land Cruiser based vehicle
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I'll give you a clue .... the Paj ISN'T pulling me INTO the field ....
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"I'll give you a clue .... the Paj ISN'T pulling me INTO the field ....
But we don't see you in front of the Paj towing it do we
My recent recoveries include:
2 x Disco
1x defender 90
I x Lada Cossack
!x Tractor
and numerous others that I haven't bothered to keep track of
And yes I've been recovered as well but that's because I go places to see if I can get stuck or not Landie drivers usually follow if I get through and get really peed when they can't make it
:lol: :lol:
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O.K. I've had enough now.
In March the Scorpion racing Novice challenge starts again. I will enter in a box standard 110 with the exception that I will fit some Cooper Discoverer S/T tyres.
You enter in your Japmobile.
The only reply needed is yes or no.
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O.K. I've had enough now.
In March the Scorpion racing Novice challenge starts again. I will enter in a box standard 110 with the exception that I will fit some Cooper Discoverer S/T tyres.
You enter in your Japmobile.
The only reply needed is yes or no.
OK so we're looking at standard class
Single winch
No lockers unless supplied as standard
:-k :-k :-k :-k
Looks Like pistols at dawn to me - or should that be 4x4s
Japs against the Brits
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You've got a serious chip on your shoulder there mate, now I have nothing against jap 4x4 but you seem to have a bit of a problem with land rovers, did one bully you as a child :?:
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Ah, what the hell, I hate Landies as well, the damn things always seem to be everywhere you look, no point challenging them......
Japanese trucks always come out on top
[demonic laughter]
Rolla :lol:
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on yours mate the jap truck is on top.....of the landrover axles.....and i would say little else left bar the chassis and bodywork has anything to do with suzuki :wink:
Hey i RRB i never had a go at him :wink:
Dont get me wrong i do think Mitsubishi make great stuff but why all the Landrover hostility. BTW if you look at the challenge scene there are loads of people who think outside the box. Without these guys and im not just talking here there would be little innovation and forward momentum in the 4x4 world. They arent sheep who simply follow without looking carefully
There is a twin motor winch on the market...why? Because people in the scene made one first. there are Landcrusiers , yamaha landrovers g wagons all sorts not just follow my leader landrovers.
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You've got a serious chip on your shoulder there mate, now I have nothing against jap 4x4 but you seem to have a bit of a problem with land rovers, did one bully you as a child :?:
Actually I have nothing against Land-Rovers at all
What pi55es me off are people that think that Land-Rovers are the only thing that can do anything off-road and won't even consider what other vehicles could do.
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I try to incorporporate as many makes,marques, and models in my vehicle so as not to offend anyone.
On the whole though, it takes the bad characteristics from each and usually breaks down................................ :roll:
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You've got a serious chip on your shoulder there mate, now I have nothing against jap 4x4 but you seem to have a bit of a problem with land rovers, did one bully you as a child :?:
Actually I have nothing against Land-Rovers at all
What pi55es me off are people that think that Land-Rovers are the only thing that can do anything off-road and won't even consider what other vehicles could do.
if thats what u think then aim your critisms at those individuals, dont just generalise it at anybody who just happens to own a LR.
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You've got a serious chip on your shoulder there mate, now I have nothing against jap 4x4 but you seem to have a bit of a problem with land rovers, did one bully you as a child :?:
Actually I have nothing against Land-Rovers at all
What pi55es me off are people that think that Land-Rovers are the only thing that can do anything off-road and won't even consider what other vehicles could do.
if thats what u think then aim your critisms at those individuals, dont just generalise it at anybody who just happens to own a LR.
I try not to be critical - all I write is my observations. I admit that sometimes I might say something, albeit tongue in cheek, that might seem to some to be disparaging toward Land-Rovers and the Land-Rover set, but I feel that it's no more than what I've, and many other non-Land-Rover drivers have to put up with, both on-line and off-road. :twisted: :twisted: :lol: :lol:
My questions and comment's are serious attempts to gain information hopefully unbiased and sometimes I find it helps to play the devil's advocate in order to get people to express their opinion on a subject. If this offends then I'm sorry. :wink:
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might seem to some to be disparaging toward Land-Rovers and the Land-Rover
Its cos theyre CR$P :wink:
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Japanese trucks always come out on top
Rolla :lol:
That's fortunate 'cos if they came out beneath one they'd get crushed :?
Anyway from what I've heard you're is on top of a Land Rover :P
Now I've been laning with Pajeros and Surf and I have a lot of respect for them, they are good trucks as are the Suzukis which let's face it are a very different approach to a 4x4 in terms of weight/strength etc but surely the fact that we all choose to modify means NONE of them are perfect :?:
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Not being perfect is one of the biggest problems but perfect for what.
Thinking about it Jap machines have less work on them as they come with far more than the Land-Rover to conquer rough terrain
In theory a snorkle, decent tyres and a winch should be all you require on a Mitsi they've already thought about under protection and traction (to a limited degree)
One of the things that annoys me about Landies is the lack of strength in important places, Yes they are easy to replace in the field but isn't that just taking the pi55? :lol: :lol: :lol:
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mitsi's do have all those feature and yes they are competent but it is one of those free to choose things. Ive seen the lanes in your gallaries and they are pleasant but dead easy. There are lanes in Derbyshire that would take see the shogun well and truly stuck , rear locker or not.
All have virtues both good and bad.
You seem to have this thing that LR break all the time. Mine has jsut killed its rad after 3 years of abuse. I did a rock crawl challenge last year and got away without any mechanical problems...it was a little more extreme than most trials.Thats the only problem i have had....
have a look at the piccies here,
http://www.frickley4x4.co.uk/83306.html
mines the disco not the jeep btw. He won with some great driving.
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Back to winches
When did you last see a proper recovery truck using a chinese winch?
Come Up
Warn
Super winch ( Come up in a different colour)
Are all fitted as standard by most of the manufacturers of recovery and rescue vehicles, dose this tell you any thing????
I have lost count of the number of cheap winches scrapped due to breaking in the warrenty period that the seller would not honour.
You do get what you pay for.
Its not just the finish but the heat treatment of te gearbox, quality of seals, eficiency of the motor etc.
Your biggest problem will be water, the only way is to service it on a regular basis.
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You got any idea where come-up winches are actually manufactured Winchman??
Taiwan!
Almost China aint it :wink:
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You've got a serious chip on your shoulder there mate, now I have nothing against jap 4x4 but you seem to have a bit of a problem with land rovers, did one bully you as a child :?:
Actually I have nothing against Land-Rovers at all
What pi55es me off are people that think that Land-Rovers are the only thing that can do anything off-road and won't even consider what other vehicles could do.
i h8 jap stuff,
but i must admit the dun up hilux mk3 are blinnin awesome in the mud
and also
i got a std paj 3 miles on a rockstrawn beach, when i say rocks, amean rocks !
did have to winch it alot with me 90 and use waffles, but it was a great day had lots of fun cos it was challenging, its easy peasy in mine, but a std paj diff story, i was well impressed with it
jus thought id mention it :lol:
danny
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mitsi's do have all those feature and yes they are competent but it is one of those free to choose things. Ive seen the lanes in your gallaries and they are pleasant but dead easy. There are lanes in Derbyshire that would take see the shogun well and truly stuck , rear locker or not.
That is one of the problems that we have down here not quite as bad as Salisbury Plains I suppose but pretty flat
All have virtues both good and bad.
You seem to have this thing that LR break all the time. Mine has jsut killed its rad after 3 years of abuse.
I don't know why - it could well be coincidence or bad operating but the first trial I went to someone had a diff go, the second was another diff and a transfer box, the third was a holed sump and either the rad or head gasket, the fourth was a half shaft. Plus I have seen three Rangies roll in the last 3 months. That's different people on each one not the same machine
However I know Mitsis are supposedly reknowned for having a huge appitite for heads and head gaskets and gearbox input shafts apparently so(http://mudlark.info/images/smileys/533.gif)
I did a rock crawl challenge last year and got away without any mechanical problems...it was a little more extreme than most trials.Thats the only problem i have had....
have a look at the piccies here,
http://www.frickley4x4.co.uk/83306.html
mines the disco not the jeep btw. He won with some great driving.
That looks really good - love to give that a try - no chance around here though :( :lol: :lol: :lol:
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Come up winches are made in Taiwan, its near China but very different.
Come up are the only manufactures ( corect me if I am wrong) to manufacture to an ISO9001 Quality system, carry TUV approval and the Nowegen Shipping board aproval that I cant think of the name of.
Some one quoted cables and test certs.
A lot of the cheap stuff carries no test cert, you should get one for the winc and one for the cable.
Jap stuff v Land rovers
Both very good but different applications , my Spanish SJ would beat any similar spec Land rover or Jap mitsubishi etc, but it wont do 70 on the motorway or tow a caravan.
Wouldnt it be drab if we all liked the same car???
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Winchman. Any idea of a good stockist of these Come Up winches. Are you saying they are good? :)
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Mudlark, there has only ever been one car DRIVE the frickley rock crawl.....and i own it :wink:
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Winchman. Any idea of a good stockist of these Come Up winches. Are you saying they are good? :)
Try the 4x4 store Exeter - 01392 445 262 they also do Superwinch as well
Don't seem to have an active website though :(
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I am biased as when I set up Winches International ( no longer trading)and was the North West agent for Come Up, I never had one warrenty claim from the Come Ups I sold
I spoke and visited and researched most manufacturers.
I got very little support from Superwinch, Warn took months to respond, Come Up arranged a meeting the same week, followed the following week by a visit to the UK importer and agent to see stock levels, recieve training for applications and repairs.
I did raise several issues re warrenty claims and faults and was shown how any potential problems are redesigned and addressed.
I was very impressed.
The best place to buy any brand of winch is PG winches in Cornwall, Phil & Nick have been in the bussines for a long time and provide very good service at a competative price. www.winchrepairs.co.uk
Look at the trading history of who you buy from, do they take credit cards (this is handy should you have a problem and they have shut up shop) whats the warrenty?
I stoped selling winches as it was becoming more and more difficult, no one wanted to pay for repairs, and a glut of cheap Kews,GEWs etc just started to come in to the UK, so a similar looking winch could be bought for half the price, but what people didnt see is the quality is not as good.
I was making more money with my engineering work so I went 100% to this.
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http://www.winchrepairs.co.uk/mambo/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=33&Itemid=1
Phils Recomended list
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@ winchman are superwinch the old fairey manufacturers that were made in tavistock at one time?
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Winchman. Any idea of a good stockist of these Come Up winches. Are you saying they are good? :)
yea phil at pg winches
tell him danny (thebiggreenthing) sent u :wink:
winchman it was me who said that the common winches ( warn, superwinch, comeup, milemarker) they do come with test certs for their wire rope, ive still got mine for the huskey and ep, ill try to get them scanned in and show you guys
but the chinese dont
danny
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o both phil and nick are x superwinch guys aswel
phils got a wealth of knowlage, me and him are very good friends we trade alot
danny
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Bit before my time but I think Fairey where connected to Superwinch, Phil at PG has all the bits to fix them as he has them remanufactured
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However I know Mitsis are supposedly reknowned for having a huge appitite for heads and head gaskets and gearbox input shafts apparently so(http://mudlark.info/images/smileys/533.gif)
Well I think that has something to do with it, from my experience of Jap cars, if a head gasket goes it's time to bury it in a shallow grave quite honestly, the price of spares is a bit prohibitive whereas for a LR, well the stuff we use day in day out is cheap enough to upset even Ford owners and they think their parts are cheap.
V8 Head gasket set, all in £36
Disks, £12, vented disks £18
Wheel bearings £4 each or £7.50 for SKF ones.
That's another reason why so many challenge motors start off with a LR.
And another thing, most Jap 4x4 have led an easy life, more up kerb than off road untill they become cheap enough for us to play with, not so for a Land Rover, they genrally earn their keep.
Ours, well it was white, had no sunroof, no electric mirrors (even tough you can't buy them like that) starship mileage and needed a new interior when it was 3 years old. Think police car :wink:
Now it's been an off-roader for about 14 years. 14 years as a TOY, I wouldn't expect a lot of foreign stuff to last 14 years in total.
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I am biased as when I set up Winches International ( no longer trading)and was the North West agent for Come Up, I never had one warrenty claim from the Come Ups I sold
Come up winches are available from Paida 4x4 click my link below
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However I know Mitsis are supposedly reknowned for having a huge appitite for heads and head gaskets and gearbox input shafts apparently so(http://mudlark.info/images/smileys/533.gif)
Well I think that has something to do with it, from my experience of Jap cars, if a head gasket goes it's time to bury it in a shallow grave quite honestly, the price of spares is a bit prohibitive whereas for a LR, well the stuff we use day in day out is cheap enough to upset even Ford owners and they think their parts are cheap.
V8 Head gasket set, all in £36
Disks, £12, vented disks £18
Wheel bearings £4 each or £7.50 for SKF ones.
That's another reason why so many challenge motors start off with a LR.
And another thing, most Jap 4x4 have led an easy life, more up kerb than off road untill they become cheap enough for us to play with, not so for a Land Rover, they genrally earn their keep.
Ours, well it was white, had no sunroof, no electric mirrors (even tough you can't buy them like that) starship mileage and needed a new interior when it was 3 years old. Think police car :wink:
Now it's been an off-roader for about 14 years. 14 years as a TOY, I wouldn't expect a lot of foreign stuff to last 14 years in total.
There is no problem getting cheap parts for a mitsi - if they wear out and very little of mine has worn out in the past 4 years - still haven't bought a set of front brake pads for it yet.
I don't think it matters what car you buy you are certainly going to get initial teething problems with them get them sorted properly and they last years.
Buy a knocked around heavily abused Land-Rover or any 4x4 if it comes to that... Errrr..... no thanks one careful lady owner or one jap owner will do me. I prefer something that hasn't had the guts revved out of it to get sky under the wheels thank you #-o #-o #-o
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no brake pads in 4 yrs - you clearly havent been using your motor hard enough ole chap :!:
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no brake pads in 4 yrs - you clearly havent been using your motor hard enough ole chap :!:
Oh I have it's just when I get moving I hardly ever stop - No stopping Shoguns you see :(biglaugh): :(biglaugh):
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oh i see
they simply dont work!
:wink:
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oh i see
they simply dont work!
:wink:
I don't know, it must be cus it keeps using a gallon of fuel every 35 miles :lol:
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I had a one owner shogun!
Doing the same as my mates in their Rangies killed the shogun in a year !
I have had several and I think the biggest problem is the lack of aftermarket products available. I made most of the bits for my shogun .
With a LR you are spoilt for choice !
Each to their own though.
I am a LR man through and through 8)
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I had a one owner shogun!
Doing the same as my mates in their Rangies killed the shogun in a year !
I have had several and I think the biggest problem is the lack of aftermarket products available. I made most of the bits for my shogun .
With a LR you are spoilt for choice !
Each to their own though.
I am a LR man through and through 8)
I don't know, I used to think that as well but I think you'll find it's only in this country there is a shortage OME certainly makes stuff for them I think you'll find that Australia and America tend to be overflowing with parts for the jap market as they're not that enamoured with Land-Rover :wink:
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no brake pads in 4 yrs - you clearly havent been using your motor hard enough ole chap :!:
i do pads every 3 weekends if im playing hard,
D6 was a set o rear pads in a weekend :lol:
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no brake pads in 4 yrs - you clearly havent been using your motor hard enough ole chap :!:
i do pads every 3 weekends if im playing hard,
D6 was a set o rear pads in a weekend :lol:
Interesting.... Why do you use brakes to that extent off-road??
You don't safari do you? :-k :-k :-k :lol: :lol:
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Im no expert on winches by a long shot, i have never used an electric winch, mainly because my truck came with a Fairy/superwinch, im a bit lost as to which as i beleave they became the same thing, i dont do trials (would love to one day) but i have used my winch in anger on several occasions, without any problems, have pulled myself dead weight for a approx 30m out of a swamp, using two 90's as an anchour point, at one stage i was dragging both 90's to me rather than me out of the swamp..
The pto can be used with drive going to the wheel, but as said, the wheels drive at a different speed.
PTO's are very strong there is no doubt about it, but they are akward to use, the release on the winch drum is near on impossable to release when the cable is under load, they are ideally a two man operation which in it self slows the whole process down, possably one advantage is you can use them in all gears to give you a veriety of spooling speeds, except of course reverse, but of course you need the engine running to winch, i have been stuck before, stalled out, couldnt start, couldnt winch...
Well that is my 2 cents worth...
Cheers
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Apparently according to TOR mechanical are coming into their own again with some capable of doing a 1:1 with wheel speed
That means it has to be turning around 16 times faster than the wheel :shock: :shock:
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its not about using the brakes Mudlark, its the mud n crap that wears them out
I have done 3 sets of rears in about 3000 miles to 1 set of fronts!
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no brake pads in 4 yrs - you clearly havent been using your motor hard enough ole chap :!:
i do pads every 3 weekends if im playing hard,
D6 was a set o rear pads in a weekend :lol:
Interesting.... Why do you use brakes to that extent off-road??
You don't safari do you? :-k :-k :-k :lol: :lol:
i did/do occasionally.
as davidlandy says its the mud in the brakes that do the damage,the sites up here dont normally wear pads or wheel bearings but theresa few parts of DC that are a right clay so are very abbbrasive,should come up in april & show us how good your mitsi is :wink:
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that seems a fair offer Mikee
a great opportunity to see exactly how capable they are.
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i mean if you struggle to follo us round the perimiter track im sure roofus in the L200 would look after you :lol:
*must get a rear locker for D7*
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you'll find that Australia and America tend to be overflowing with parts for the jap market as they're not that enamoured with Land-Rover :wink:
Australia has massive import duties on foreign cars that the japanese have curcumvented by building KD facilities in these countries. I don't know about the americans but if it's not american it's no good to them. Ever noticed how you can spot the bad guy in a holiwood film? he's driving a foreign car.
Just take a look at how many Series 1 are still on the go in Oz adn you'll soon realise how much tye value them. Tney drive Jap because it's so much cheaper.
And anyway, they don't have to worry about rust :wink:
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And back to Warn
Ruftracks[/url]"]
A lot of time was consumed by the spanish team in their Merc g-wagen: They broke their steel cable 3 times during this section and we had to rerig their winch as a result of this. To add to this, the winch itself was not strong enough to do the job (It was a Warn M8000) and had to be doublerigged several times.
(http://mudlark.info/images/smileys/eusa_whistle.gif) (http://mudlark.info/images/smileys/eusa_whistle.gif) (http://mudlark.info/images/smileys/eusa_whistle.gif) (http://mudlark.info/images/smileys/eusa_whistle.gif) (http://mudlark.info/images/smileys/eusa_whistle.gif) (http://mudlark.info/images/smileys/eusa_whistle.gif)
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what event was it? m8000 on a g wagon, no surprise that it needed double lining. Was the rope new? how much abuse had it received previously...err etc etc etc. :?
I have been present when 2 winches couldnt budge a g when it was buried..(one of the winches pulled a 110 through on its own,give you a clue).but then again a standard shogun just drove past it...NOT!
David Boyers Dvd shows him quad lining. Double lining is a sensible option. You really shouldnt quote things out of context without the background. I bet the next line wasnt they threw it away bought a cheap chinese winch and went on to win the event..... :wink:
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what event was it? m8000 on a g wagon, no surprise that it needed double lining. Was the rope new? how much abuse had it received previously...err etc etc etc. :?
I have been present when 2 winches couldnt budge a g when it was buried..(one of the winches pulled a 110 through on its own,give you a clue).but then again a standard shogun just drove past it...NOT!
David Boyers Dvd shows him quad lining. Double lining is a sensible option. You really shouldnt quote things out of context without the background. I bet the next line wasnt they threw it away bought a cheap chinese winch and went on to win the event..... :wink:
Click on Ruftracks over the quote
Wish I was there in a.... well anything to enjoy it :lol:
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Mudlark
back to Drumclog7 - you coming then?
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Mudlark
back to Drumclog7 - you coming then?
Bring it closer and I'd jump at the chance to show you what an nutcase I am,
However I have a commitment at the moment that won't allow me to be away from home the amount of time that would be needed for me to enjoy meself there :lol: :lol:
So at the moment I'll have to leave it open, if however my commitment ceases to exsist then I shall be there to tow you out :wink: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:
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Mudlark
back to Drumclog7 - you coming then?
if however my commitment ceases to exsist then I shall be there to tow you out :wink: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:
:(biglaugh): :(biglaugh): :(biglaugh): :(biglaugh): :(biglaugh):
Dave:will you be driving up on the simex's?
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And back to Warn
Ruftracks[/url]"]
A lot of time was consumed by the spanish team in their Merc g-wagen: They broke their steel cable 3 times during this section and we had to rerig their winch as a result of this. To add to this, the winch itself was not strong enough to do the job (It was a Warn M8000) and had to be doublerigged several times.
(http://mudlark.info/images/smileys/eusa_whistle.gif) (http://mudlark.info/images/smileys/eusa_whistle.gif) (http://mudlark.info/images/smileys/eusa_whistle.gif) (http://mudlark.info/images/smileys/eusa_whistle.gif) (http://mudlark.info/images/smileys/eusa_whistle.gif) (http://mudlark.info/images/smileys/eusa_whistle.gif)
To be honest chap thats [bauble],to say that it sums up a warn is just pish,using an 8000Ib winch on somwthing that as it stands would be pushing the winch to its limits no mater what winch it was is honestly no use in this disscussion,it coulda been a comeup 8000 & i would bet it still woulda had problems
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And back to Warn
Ruftracks[/url]"]
A lot of time was consumed by the spanish team in their Merc g-wagen: They broke their steel cable 3 times during this section and we had to rerig their winch as a result of this. To add to this, the winch itself was not strong enough to do the job (It was a Warn M8000) and had to be doublerigged several times.
(http://mudlark.info/images/smileys/eusa_whistle.gif) (http://mudlark.info/images/smileys/eusa_whistle.gif) (http://mudlark.info/images/smileys/eusa_whistle.gif) (http://mudlark.info/images/smileys/eusa_whistle.gif) (http://mudlark.info/images/smileys/eusa_whistle.gif) (http://mudlark.info/images/smileys/eusa_whistle.gif)
To be honest chap thats bauble,to say that it sums up a warn is just pish,using an 8000Ib winch on somwthing that as it stands would be pushing the winch to its limits no mater what winch it was is honestly no use in this disscussion,it coulda been a comeup 8000 & i would bet it still woulda had problems
Use? it wasn't meant to be of any use..............
Apart from warming the discussion up :twisted: :twisted: :twisted: :twisted: :twisted: :twisted:
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And back to Warn
Ruftracks[/url]"]
A lot of time was consumed by the spanish team in their Merc g-wagen: They broke their steel cable 3 times during this section and we had to rerig their winch as a result of this. To add to this, the winch itself was not strong enough to do the job (It was a Warn M8000) and had to be doublerigged several times.
(http://mudlark.info/images/smileys/eusa_whistle.gif) (http://mudlark.info/images/smileys/eusa_whistle.gif) (http://mudlark.info/images/smileys/eusa_whistle.gif) (http://mudlark.info/images/smileys/eusa_whistle.gif) (http://mudlark.info/images/smileys/eusa_whistle.gif) (http://mudlark.info/images/smileys/eusa_whistle.gif)
To be honest chap thats bauble,to say that it sums up a warn is just pish,using an 8000Ib winch on somwthing that as it stands would be pushing the winch to its limits no mater what winch it was is honestly no use in this disscussion,it coulda been a comeup 8000 & i would bet it still woulda had problems
Use? it wasn't meant to be of any use..............
Apart from warming the discussion up :twisted: :twisted: :twisted: :twisted: :twisted: :twisted:
Anyway,will we be seing your paj at D7?
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still waiting for a yes or no regarding the challenge event .... Mudlark made a post about it but didn't give an answer.
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My answer is above as it stands at the moment, I'd really love to be there and probably take some stick from all you landie slaves I seem to be upsetting at the moment :lol: :lol: :lol:
But anything can happen in the next five months :wink: :lol: :lol:
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still waiting for a yes or no regarding the challenge event .... Mudlark made a post about it but didn't give an answer.
I'm still thinking about it - I don't really want to use my daily drive on doing it and what I want to get and use I don't think I'm goiing to have ready for the season's start.
But I do intend to be doing the scorpion with a shogun or paj based vehicle so you will get your chance
In the meantime anyone want to buy a sherpa mobile home that's filling my garage so I can get some work done on a real 4x4? :lol: :lol:
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still waiting for a yes or no regarding the challenge event .... Mudlark made a post about it but didn't give an answer.
I'm still thinking about it - I don't really want to use my daily drive on doing it and what I want to get and use I don't think I'm goiing to have ready for the season's start.
But I do intend to be doing the scorpion with a shogun or paj based vehicle so you will get your chance
In the meantime anyone want to buy a sherpa mobile home that's filling my garage so I can get some work done on a real 4x4? :lol: :lol:
Poor answer :lol:
I use my daily drive for everything,including heavy weekends :lol:
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still waiting for a yes or no regarding the challenge event .... Mudlark made a post about it but didn't give an answer.
I'm still thinking about it - I don't really want to use my daily drive on doing it and what I want to get and use I don't think I'm goiing to have ready for the season's start.
But I do intend to be doing the scorpion with a shogun or paj based vehicle so you will get your chance
In the meantime anyone want to buy a sherpa mobile home that's filling my garage so I can get some work done on a real 4x4? :lol: :lol:
nice to c u at scorpion then :wink:
gud luck :wink:
ull need it :wink:
danny
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still waiting for a yes or no regarding the challenge event .... Mudlark made a post about it but didn't give an answer.
I'm still thinking about it - I don't really want to use my daily drive on doing it and what I want to get and use I don't think I'm goiing to have ready for the season's start.
But I do intend to be doing the scorpion with a shogun or paj based vehicle so you will get your chance
In the meantime anyone want to buy a sherpa mobile home that's filling my garage so I can get some work done on a real 4x4? :lol: :lol:
Poor answer :lol:
ditto mike, bet i play harded than u tho :wink:
back from event sun nite
fix monday
work tuesday :lol:
thats my scedual :lol:
danny
I use my daily drive for everything,including heavy weekends :lol:
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Did a Scorpion Challenge event in mine this year. Drove it home too. So after all the trolling and gobbing off, is Mudlark saying that he doubts the Paj's ability to complete a novice event intact?
Here's the Disco just coming in to land! (picture courtesy of www.scorpionracing.co.uk )
(http://www.scorpionracing.co.uk/OFFROAD/News/2006/events/NOV3/novr3p599.jpg)
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I think I'll stick to my trusty MAP Capstan winch :lol: all 4000Ibs on a single line.
Just to clear up the whole superwinch thing.
Currently there is Superwinch LTD based at the abbey road site in tevistock devon ( a whole 7 miles from my house) And then there is the american company Superwinch INC over the pond.
Before there was just the one Superwinch LTD. again at tavistock.
Before that there was FWL, Fairey winches Limited same site as above.
Before that there was MAP, Mayflower Automotive products again at the above site.
Before there was the founder original company Hamiltons Automotive Products. They were based on a site on the main road into tavistock.
Hope that helps. As for these modern new fangled electrical jobbies then who knows, from what i have seen then come up and superwinch seem a better 'affordable' option.
What i will ask is how come after 6 pages and even though the man him self has been mentioned that no one has commented on the Goodwinch range. David Bowyers Reworked versions of the superwinch range. Something i'm not getting here? His twin motored beast was something else when i saw it at malvern, by spec it would give the 8247 something interms of line speed to wonder about.
As for the jap v landy argument Well who knows?
But i'm waiting to see how many pajs etc etc live to be 60 years old? My series 2a is 35 years old will your paj still be going when it's that old? Or will it have gone to the big off road course in the sky whilst the IIA is still trundaling round the place. :twisted:
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David Bowyers Reworked versions of the superwinch range. Something i'm not getting here? His twin motored beast was something else when i saw it at malvern, by spec it would give the 8247 something interms of line speed to wonder about.
It would give an out-of-the-box 8274 a run for its money... but then at £2500 plus vat it ought to :shock: Put it up against a modified 8274, with twin XP motors... something like the Gigglepin set up, and it's a whole different ball game... plus it's less money. That's assuming of course that David's new winch works for long enough... on the 2 occasions I saw it there were problems... jumping out of gear, oil leaking from the side, etc.
Mudlark... once again, you seem to have chosen a quote from someone with an agenda... of course Andy from Ruftraks is going to highlight the fact that a wire rope broke.... he sells Plasma ! And I'll echo what the others have said... an M8000 on a g-wagon... not ideal !
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Did a Scorpion Challenge event in mine this year. Drove it home too. So after all the trolling and gobbing off, is Mudlark saying that he doubts the Paj's ability to complete a novice event intact?
Here's the Disco just coming in to land! (picture courtesy of www.scorpionracing.co.uk )
(http://www.scorpionracing.co.uk/OFFROAD/News/2006/events/NOV3/novr3p599.jpg)
Oh no I don't doubt it's ability just don't want it ending up looking like a beat up disco that's all :lol: :lol:
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David Bowyers Reworked versions of the superwinch range. Something i'm not getting here? His twin motored beast was something else when i saw it at malvern, by spec it would give the 8247 something interms of line speed to wonder about.
It would give an out-of-the-box 8274 a run for its money... but then at £2500 plus vat it ought to :shock: Put it up against a modified 8274, with twin XP motors... something like the Gigglepin set up, and it's a whole different ball game... plus it's less money. That's assuming of course that David's new winch works for long enough... on the 2 occasions I saw it there were problems... jumping out of gear, oil leaking from the side, etc.
Mudlark... once again, you seem to have chosen a quote from someone with an agenda... of course Andy from Ruftraks is going to highlight the fact that a wire rope broke.... he sells Plasma ! And I'll echo what the others have said... an M8000 on a g-wagon... not ideal !
I didn't actually choose it I just found it and if you read back I didn't quote the MileMarker one :lol: :lol: Possibly you're right with the M8000 on a g-wagon and the rope might not have been the original.
I was going to say that Goodwinch was not mentioned due to everyone being a Warn fan on here but you seem to have pre-empted that with your comments as one would expect of a Warn stockist :twisted: :twisted: :twisted: :twisted:
But there again the electric winch spec game is a whole big can of worms when you come to look closely at it with manufacturers at both ends of the price spectrum seemingly wanting to rip you off. Perhaps this is why mechanicals are starting to make a return especially in the challenge circuit?
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Okies then the new twin motor jobby may have been a bad example. But the likes of the X9 varient he sells and the G10 / G12 doesn't seem to gain any notiable coments either way. Do they just keep on going or just not go at all?
If i was gonna get an electric winch i would look for a husky as there isn't any brakes to get major hot when paying out under load, and it is a worm and wheel setup so should the motor go Belly up under load it aint going let go and release. yes it's slow but then a fair reputation seems to have been built from those years it had spent being used on the camel trophy.
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I think I'll stick to my trusty MAP Capstan winch :lol: all 4000Ibs on a single line.
So how do you get on with a capstan? rumour has it they are purely two man winches But what winch isn't in a challenge :wink: :lol:
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i just cant wait to see this capstan winched shogun competing :shock:
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i just cant wait to see this capstan winched shogun competing :shock:
It just so happens that I've got a river close by with lots of abandoned sailing thingies on it so capstan winches tend to be cheap :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:
Besides which if I mount a capstan between the front seats I can run two ropes One front and One back but I only have one winch so it's not modified see :roll: :roll: :roll: :lol:
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hmmm, you will need a hell of a lot of strengthening to mount one winch to go either way. It would be diff to the way ibexes do it where they use a snatch block to run round...the chassis needs loads more bracing.
Im not sure how safe that would be... i wouldnt want to be anywhere near it..imagine getting dragged into the car????
just because something is cheap doesnt make it good.
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Yes the capstan can be is a two man but mainly used for the recovery of the other poor unfortunates who get stuck, one chap just the run the rope out and then to be at the landy to operate it. And your right for self recovery i think it's a bit of a no no, As whilst one chap steers the other has to be out hold the line coming off the bollard. so putting himself in danger by being close to the taught rope.
All capstans though made by MAP / FWL were only a 2,500Ib pull IIRC so then there is more chance of the shear pin going than the rope snapping.
My winch was origanlly on my dad's IIA and he knew the enginers at the time in the early 70's as he was doing testing work for the overdrives. And he told them that he kept breaking shear pins when recovering other landies and once a stuck county tractor. :shock:
They went away and came back with a special set of shear pins which will take 4,000Ib pull, and to this day my dad still has the certificate to prove that the winch will take the pull. I think we still have piccies of my dad's old landy in the early seventies with the winch in action.
The other bonus is that he got a HD winch bumper to. Made of apporx 6 mill steel I haven't managed to bend it yet. and hitting trees either stops the landy or makes the tree fall over :)
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I came across this the other day you might be interested in
Click here to see who[/url]"]
Capstan winches
These are normally engine driven and often perform superbly when all else fails. Their biggest disadvantage is that they are best operated by two people. This is because a second pair of hands is required to tail off the winch, a procedure like that used for operating the sail winches on large yachts. Only a seasoned expert will operate a capstan winch alone and if this is the case, an emergency engine ignition cut-off switch must be fitted so as to enable the operator, who will not be seated in the cab, to shut down the engine if required. I saw a Series One Land Rover fitted with an original Fairey 3000lb-capacity capstan winch haul 14 vehicles across a stretch of axle-deep liquid sand that no vehicle could traverse. The last and fifteenth vehicle proved too much for the small winch and the worm drive stripped. In the same situation, an 8000lb electric drum type would have overheated by the third or fourth vehicle. The rope for the capstan must be stored elsewhere as there is no provision for storing it on the winch.
Note the Hub capstans further down the page as well
Im not sure how safe that would be... i wouldnt want to be anywhere near it..imagine getting dragged into the car????
As safety goes capstans, because of their design are pretty safe winches there is nothing on the capstan to grab until you wrap a rope around it, I've seen them running constantly on a boat before now - crabbing boat that is - and you know what H&S are like.
Possibly not very good in close quarters as I described above but hey what the hell most of the guys on this post think I'm a complete nutter anyway :wink: :lol: :lol: :lol:
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a fair reputation seems to have been built from those years it had spent being used on the camel trophy.
But they used warn for a fair few years aswell :lol:
Oh & it was 99% 8274's
Mudlark........Just admit it you have lost the argument & 8274 warns are the daddy of all winches
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Ok then chaps, calm down. lol.
All winches are equla just some are more equal than others.
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rolazuli, i've just followed your link to Tradewinch, how do you rate their own brand of winches :?: The HTW9500 would be just about in my budget at a push http://www.tradewinch.com/htw9500.htm I intend to put it on the front of my Pajero (no i'm not going to get into the other debate :lol: ) It won't be used as a challenge winch but just for the occasional recovery (insurance policy more than anything).
Any comments on this winch :?:
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a fair reputation seems to have been built from those years it had spent being used on the camel trophy.
But they used warn for a fair few years aswell :lol:
Oh & it was 99% 8274's
Mudlark........Just admit it you have lost the argument & 8274 warns are the daddy of all winches
Argument??? Who's arguing??? You have an opinion that you haven't proved, although not one that I would diminish simply due to that fact. I, on the other hand, am trying (with great difficulty due to the biasassing of other contributers) to form an opinion. Nothing yet is lost, yet little has been gained, if I may say so. :lol: :lol: :lol:
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a fair reputation seems to have been built from those years it had spent being used on the camel trophy.
But they used warn for a fair few years aswell :lol:
Oh & it was 99% 8274's
Mudlark........Just admit it you have lost the argument & 8274 warns are the daddy of all winches
You have an opinion that you haven't proved
the fact that landrover themselves wouldnt fit a a cheap branded winch?
the fact that 90% of those competing at the top level of challange events around the world use warn 8274s with either XP motors (warn) & allbrite solenoids (fitted to SW) :lol:
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Capstan winches ?!?!?!?
Best go for a warn winch, or maybe a superwinch. they take loads of abuse and you can get the bits for them if they brake or to service them. (important)
Most people who praise some other makes generally havent used them the ways that the challenge boys do. I just couldnt see a (for example)GEW9000 standing up to some of that grief!
but then again a GEW9000 would be fine for the occasional pull out of trouble, and many people want one just for that.
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rolazuli, i've just followed your link to Tradewinch, how do you rate their own brand of winches :?: The HTW9500 would be just about in my budget at a push http://www.tradewinch.com/htw9500.htm I intend to put it on the front of my Pajero (no i'm not going to get into the other debate :lol: ) It won't be used as a challenge winch but just for the occasional recovery (insurance policy more than anything).
Any comments on this winch :?:
Any comments :?:
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the fact that landrover themselves wouldnt fit a a cheap branded winch?
I would avoid taking that defense, since landrover knowingly fitted lucas electrics to them too :D
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the fact that landrover themselves wouldnt fit a a cheap branded winch?
Do you really think that's a good point - after all Land-Rover rarely fit anything to their vehicles that stays in one piece or even stays on the vehicle without falling off (http://mudlark.info/images/smileys/eusa_whistle.gif) (http://mudlark.info/images/smileys/eusa_whistle.gif) (http://mudlark.info/images/smileys/eusa_whistle.gif) (http://mudlark.info/images/smileys/eusa_whistle.gif) (http://mudlark.info/images/smileys/eusa_whistle.gif) (http://mudlark.info/images/smileys/eusa_whistle.gif)
I'm off (http://mudlark.info/images/smileys/Flee.gif)
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the fact that landrover themselves wouldnt fit a a cheap branded winch?
I would avoid taking that defense, since landrover knowingly fitted lucas electrics to them too :D
Too late - advantage has been taken (http://mudlark.info/images/smileys/teu42.gif) (http://mudlark.info/images/smileys/teu42.gif) (http://mudlark.info/images/smileys/teu42.gif) (http://mudlark.info/images/smileys/teu42.gif)
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Too late - advantage has been taken (http://mudlark.info/images/smileys/teu42.gif) (http://mudlark.info/images/smileys/teu42.gif) (http://mudlark.info/images/smileys/teu42.gif) (http://mudlark.info/images/smileys/teu42.gif)
Confusious he say "man who live under bridge should avoid getting on high horse lest he come a cropper"
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you couldnt take part in the top level challenges with any of the cheaper winches i have seen in action. I had a GEW 9000...i dont have one now. It was great in as much as it didnt give up other then when attempting to pull a GWAGON(they are made of lead). My xp is way way faster.
The problem with the cheaper winches is the speed or lack of it. The top lads have winches that under no load are much quicker than walking pace...the gew wasnt much quicker than snail pace......
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rolazuli, i've just followed your link to Tradewinch, how do you rate their own brand of winches :?: The HTW9500 would be just about in my budget at a push http://www.tradewinch.com/htw9500.htm I intend to put it on the front of my Pajero (no i'm not going to get into the other debate :lol: ) It won't be used as a challenge winch but just for the occasional recovery (insurance policy more than anything).
Any comments on this winch :?:
Anyone got any comments on whether this winch will fit my requirements :?: :?: :?: :?: :?: :?: :?:
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rolazuli, i've just followed your link to Tradewinch, how do you rate their own brand of winches :?: The HTW9500 would be just about in my budget at a push http://www.tradewinch.com/htw9500.htm I intend to put it on the front of my Pajero (no i'm not going to get into the other debate :lol: ) It won't be used as a challenge winch but just for the occasional recovery (insurance policy more than anything).
Any comments on this winch :?:
Anyone got any comments on whether this winch will fit my requirements :?: :?: :?: :?: :?: :?: :?:
Hi Red at a guess (which probably mean I'll be put down :roll: ) I'd say that the 9500 is the same as a GEW with just another badge on so you could take your answer from Bulli above OK if you're not going anywhere in a hurry or don't want to use it for an extended length of time :lol: :lol:
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you couldnt take part in the top level challenges with any of the cheaper winches i have seen in action. I had a GEW 9000...i dont have one now. It was great in as much as it didnt give up other then when attempting to pull a GWAGON(they are made of lead). My xp is way way faster.
The problem with the cheaper winches is the speed or lack of it. The top lads have winches that under no load are much quicker than walking pace...the gew wasnt much quicker than snail pace......
OK so can I take it that hydraulic winches also fit into the slow category as well or are there fast ones?
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there are fast ones, but they aren't cheap and they need to be powered by something, which usually involves a pump (and despite what you may hear a power steering pump isn't enough) and they tend to involve the engine...
it's all swings, roundabouts and possibly small plastic slides
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there are fast ones, but they aren't cheap and they need to be powered by something, which usually involves a pump (and despite what you may hear a power steering pump isn't enough) and they tend to involve the engine...
it's all swings, roundabouts and possibly small plastic slides
Oh yes
a member on here thought that a PAS pump "might" cope with just powering the winch itself & not the steering....................
Dan did you not wonder why the TypeR has a chain drive of the front crank pulley :biglaugh:
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So how fast would the 2 speed mile marker be then? with a proper dedicated pump of course (not a PSP)
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Here you go:
http://www.4x4winches.com/zf74_pump_system.htm
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the 2 spped one is faster but you cannot load it on the fast setting.
The first time i saw a modded 8274 in action i was stunned, they are that fast!
Yes the Gew was relaible and i would buy one quite happily for occasional use, just tkae your time and allow it to cool if you look like doing extended pulls....also pay out as much line to reduce the strain on the winch.
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Hi Red at a guess (which probably mean I'll be put down :roll: ) I'd say that the 9500 is the same as a GEW with just another badge on so you could take your answer from Bulli above OK if you're not going anywhere in a hurry or don't want to use it for an extended length of time :lol: :lol:
Cheers Mudlark
So would one of the bigger winches from ebay fall into this category of being slow and OK for short use ie just for occasional recovery not challenge duties :?: or are there other snags with the cheaper winches (i've read through this post but you guys seem to be discussing the suitability of winches for competition work, are solenoids etc still a problem on these winches if used for occasional recovery) A slower winch would be fine for what i want.....I think :?
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Hydraulic winches are a different league all together. They come in 2 forms.
1) Slow and reliable, they will pull and pull and pull all day long, they dont overheat (when installed properly), they rarely stall (never herd of it but covering my ass here) and they will genuinely pull to and beyond their rated capacity. The limiting factor is usually the pump.
2) Bloody fast and areliable, like the type R and other modded winches, except once again they pull and pull beyond the capabilities of an 8274, they can even go faster and certainly pull stronger than an 8274 and once again they dont overheat, or eat batteries/solenoids! The downside is you need a beefy pump, usually either PTO or crank chain driven, but thats ok cos once its setup properly itll do everything a twin motor modded warn could do and more :D
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Hydraulic winches are a different league all together. They come in 2 forms.
1) Slow and reliable, they will pull and pull and pull all day long, they dont overheat (when installed properly), they rarely stall (never herd of it but covering my ass here) and they will genuinely pull to and beyond their rated capacity. The limiting factor is usually the pump.
2) Bloody fast and areliable, like the type R and other modded winches, except once again they pull and pull beyond the capabilities of an 8274, they can even go faster and certainly pull stronger than an 8274 and once again they dont overheat, or eat batteries/solenoids! The downside is you need a beefy pump, usually either PTO or crank chain driven, but thats ok cos once its setup properly itll do everything a twin motor modded warn could do and more :D
So where does 10 feet per minute (fpm) fit in is that fast or slow?
What fpm constitutes fast and what fpm constitutes slow?
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Hydraulic winches are a different league all together. They come in 2 forms.
1) Slow and reliable, they will pull and pull and pull all day long, they dont overheat (when installed properly), they rarely stall (never herd of it but covering my ass here) and they will genuinely pull to and beyond their rated capacity. The limiting factor is usually the pump.
2) Bloody fast and areliable, like the type R and other modded winches, except once again they pull and pull beyond the capabilities of an 8274, they can even go faster and certainly pull stronger than an 8274 and once again they dont overheat, or eat batteries/solenoids! The downside is you need a beefy pump, usually either PTO or crank chain driven, but thats ok cos once its setup properly itll do everything a twin motor modded warn could do and more :D
So where does 10 feet per minute (fpm) fit in is that fast or slow?
What fpm constitutes fast and what fpm constitutes slow?
Thats relatively slow, but is that under full (12,000lbs) load or is it freespooling?
Milemarkers (being the most common hydraulic winches seen) are slow out of the box, they have numerous restrictions, the pumps are poor, PAS pump, or the ZF pump are ok for occasional use but serious stuff needs pto or crank driven motor, then with a decent spool valve and other mods you can really make them fly :D
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Hi Red at a guess (which probably mean I'll be put down :roll: ) I'd say that the 9500 is the same as a GEW with just another badge on so you could take your answer from Bulli above OK if you're not going anywhere in a hurry or don't want to use it for an extended length of time :lol: :lol:
Cheers Mudlark
So would one of the bigger winches from ebay fall into this category of being slow and OK for short use ie just for occasional recovery not challenge duties :?: or are there other snags with the cheaper winches (i've read through this post but you guys seem to be discussing the suitability of winches for competition work, are solenoids etc still a problem on these winches if used for occasional recovery) A slower winch would be fine for what i want.....I think :?
The branded electric winches that are coming in from germany seem to be selling at the rate of around 2 per day at between £150 - £250 plus postage at 12,000 lbs doesn't sound bad - Motor might probably be a bit iffy but should fit in with, and is probably no different from, a lot of the chineese ones. Soleniods will be a problem on any winch if you don't use it right If you don't try switching a solenoid with a full load on the rope you shouldn't get a problem in other words slack off the load before taking it up this allows the contactors to pass less current reducing the size of the contact destroying spark that occurs.
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Hydraulic winches are a different league all together. They come in 2 forms.
1) Slow and reliable, they will pull and pull and pull all day long, they dont overheat (when installed properly), they rarely stall (never herd of it but covering my ass here) and they will genuinely pull to and beyond their rated capacity. The limiting factor is usually the pump.
2) Bloody fast and areliable, like the type R and other modded winches, except once again they pull and pull beyond the capabilities of an 8274, they can even go faster and certainly pull stronger than an 8274 and once again they dont overheat, or eat batteries/solenoids! The downside is you need a beefy pump, usually either PTO or crank chain driven, but thats ok cos once its setup properly itll do everything a twin motor modded warn could do and more :D
So where does 10 feet per minute (fpm) fit in is that fast or slow?
What fpm constitutes fast and what fpm constitutes slow?
Thats relatively slow, but is that under full (12,000lbs) load or is it freespooling?
Milemarkers (being the most common hydraulic winches seen) are slow out of the box, they have numerous restrictions, the pumps are poor, PAS pump, or the ZF pump are ok for occasional use but serious stuff needs pto or crank driven motor, then with a decent spool valve and other mods you can really make them fly :D
That is full load using the ZF 74 pump, so with the milemarker it's just a case of upgrading the pump and control valve to allow greater flow I assume?
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That is full load using the ZF 74 pump, so with the milemarker it's just a case of upgrading the pump and control valve to allow greater flow I assume?
To a degree, yes. I know a couple of guys with heavily modified Type R winches which work very well... but it's not a cheap option by any stretch... you have to be serious about your winching to warrant it :-)
When you start to run the hydraulics to those sort of speeds / pressures, you need to get some oil cooling in there, and usually a decent sized oil reservoir too.
You also need to make sure your vehicle is up to the job... sounds a bit daft but when you get to a hydraulic winch that pulls that hard and fast, then you need to be sure that all the mountings and associated hardware is seriously well attached... not the time for a 150 quid cheap winch bumper :shock:
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Hi Red at a guess (which probably mean I'll be put down :roll: ) I'd say that the 9500 is the same as a GEW with just another badge on so you could take your answer from Bulli above OK if you're not going anywhere in a hurry or don't want to use it for an extended length of time :lol: :lol:
Cheers Mudlark
So would one of the bigger winches from ebay fall into this category of being slow and OK for short use ie just for occasional recovery not challenge duties :?: or are there other snags with the cheaper winches (i've read through this post but you guys seem to be discussing the suitability of winches for competition work, are solenoids etc still a problem on these winches if used for occasional recovery) A slower winch would be fine for what i want.....I think :?
The branded electric winches that are coming in from germany seem to be selling at the rate of around 2 per day at between £150 - £250 plus postage at 12,000 lbs doesn't sound bad - Motor might probably be a bit iffy but should fit in with, and is probably no different from, a lot of the chineese ones. Soleniods will be a problem on any winch if you don't use it right If you don't try switching a solenoid with a full load on the rope you shouldn't get a problem in other words slack off the load before taking it up this allows the contactors to pass less current reducing the size of the contact destroying spark that occurs.
Thanks Mudlark
I might go for one of the cheap 12000lbs ones off ebay that way it'll have a bigger motor and wire rope and should be overated for what I want it to do, should stand a better chance of lasting a bit longer..........possibly.......maybe :?
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Hi Red at a guess (which probably mean I'll be put down :roll: ) I'd say that the 9500 is the same as a GEW with just another badge on so you could take your answer from Bulli above OK if you're not going anywhere in a hurry or don't want to use it for an extended length of time :lol: :lol:
Cheers Mudlark
So would one of the bigger winches from ebay fall into this category of being slow and OK for short use ie just for occasional recovery not challenge duties :?: or are there other snags with the cheaper winches (i've read through this post but you guys seem to be discussing the suitability of winches for competition work, are solenoids etc still a problem on these winches if used for occasional recovery) A slower winch would be fine for what i want.....I think :?
The branded electric winches that are coming in from germany seem to be selling at the rate of around 2 per day at between £150 - £250 plus postage at 12,000 lbs doesn't sound bad - Motor might probably be a bit iffy but should fit in with, and is probably no different from, a lot of the chineese ones. Soleniods will be a problem on any winch if you don't use it right If you don't try switching a solenoid with a full load on the rope you shouldn't get a problem in other words slack off the load before taking it up this allows the contactors to pass less current reducing the size of the contact destroying spark that occurs.
Thanks Mudlark
I might go for one of the cheap 12000lbs ones off ebay that way it'll have a bigger motor and wire rope and should be overated for what I want it to do, should stand a better chance of lasting a bit longer..........possibly.......maybe :?
It'll last a lifetime if you don't use it :wink: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:
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snatch block....whats a snatch block :lol:
i only use um to change direction of pull :lol:
never doubled up no matter how hard the pull
ive neaver been in a stall situation, only then would i double up
as for damaging motors
dont matter when got facilities to fix :lol:
shouldnt do it really but hu cares if it blows get another :twisted:
danny
missed this first time round,
seconded,dont carry snatch blocks in my 90,just extension ropes,mines pulls 2 ton on the top layer of the drum so its all good :lol:
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erm , do carry snatch block..i go out with G wagons
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mine pulls 5 ton on the bottom layer & at times ive had to use it,normally at the cost of the standard cheap solenoids :lol:
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how do you know what weight you are pulling? :wink:
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by doing the sums :wink:a disco & a 90 + ground anchor still moving
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mine pulls 5 ton on the bottom layer & at times ive had to use it,normally at the cost of the standard cheap solenoids :lol:
It's a pity you can't get mercury switches any more - no more soleniod problems :lol:
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mine pulls 5 ton on the bottom layer & at times ive had to use it,normally at the cost of the standard cheap solenoids :lol:
It's a pity you can't get mercury switches any more - no more soleniod problems :lol:
Got a set of allbrites fitted now,not a problem
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So after all the trolling and gobbing off, is Mudlark saying that he doubts the Paj's ability to complete a novice event intact?
Sums it up in one :lol: :lol:
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Although I wasn't going to get involved in this debate I have to leap to Mudlarks defence slightly on this one.
Did a Scorpion Challenge event in mine this year. Drove it home too. So after all the trolling and gobbing off, is Mudlark saying that he doubts the Paj's ability to complete a novice event intact?
Here's the Disco just coming in to land! (picture courtesy of www.scorpionracing.co.uk )
(http://www.scorpionracing.co.uk/OFFROAD/News/2006/events/NOV3/novr3p599.jpg)
The vehicle pictured above is hardly what you would call a novice/standard vehicle. Surely a more balanced argument would be can a standard Shogun/Pajero go everywhere a standard LR can go :?: and from what i've seen the answer would be yes. ergo a Shogun or Pajero modified to the same standard of a modified LR would also be equally up to the job. The big advantage of LR over jap is the availability of off the shelf bits to modify them in this country (how many off road modified Shogun/Pajeros have you seen lately :?: ) which will always give the impression that LR's are a more capable off road tool.
Personally I picked my SWB Pajero because it was much cheaper than a 90 (SWB, Diesel, £1000 all in with some secondhand All Terrains :shock:) and bang for bucks i can have just as much fun in it :wink: i'm not actually bias either way, I trial a Suzuki SJ simply because I don't care if it gets a few dents (although I have trialed the Pajero on occasions :twisted: ) But would happily own a LR if one came my way, I very nearly bought a Disco as my work vehicle but it didn't have quite enough length in the back for what i wanted (hence the Delica :wink: )
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Although I wasn't going to get involved in this debate I have to leap to Mudlarks defence slightly on this one.
Did a Scorpion Challenge event in mine this year. Drove it home too. So after all the trolling and gobbing off, is Mudlark saying that he doubts the Paj's ability to complete a novice event intact?
Here's the Disco just coming in to land! (picture courtesy of www.scorpionracing.co.uk )
(http://www.scorpionracing.co.uk/OFFROAD/News/2006/events/NOV3/novr3p599.jpg)
The vehicle pictured above is hardly what you would call a novice/standard vehicle. Surely a more balanced argument would be can a standard Shogun/Pajero go everywhere a standard LR can go :?: and from what i've seen the answer would be yes. ergo a Shogun or Pajero modified to the same standard of a modified LR would also be equally up to the job. The big advantage of LR over jap is the availability of off the shelf bits to modify them in this country (how many off road modified Shogun/Pajeros have you seen lately :?: ) which will always give the impression that LR's are a more capable off road tool.
Personally I picked my SWB Pajero because it was much cheaper than a 90 (SWB, Diesel, £1000 all in with some secondhand All Terrains :shock:) and bang for bucks i can have just as much fun in it :wink: i'm not actually bias either way, I trial a Suzuki SJ simply because I don't care if it gets a few dents (although I have trialed the Pajero on occasions :twisted: ) But would happily own a LR if one came my way, I very nearly bought a Disco as my work vehicle but it didn't have quite enough length in the back for what i wanted (hence the Delica :wink: )
Thank you Red for your support - I find the best thing is to let the Landie set talk themselves into the ground, it's no good trying to tell them, they are just too set in their ways (very much like sheep I suppose).
Don't worry when I get out there and thrash them they'll have a bit more respect for the humble Shoggie - I doubt if they'll see any more sense though :roll: :roll: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:
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Don't worry when I get out there and thrash them they'll have a bit more respect for the humble Shoggie - I doubt if they'll see any more sense though
Even a suzuki owner like me has to laugh at a bold statement like that.
Good luck :lol:
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Obviously the LR owners here, are getting worried about being beaten. :lol: And so what? better off road it might be. We are all not going to insist you sell the landy and buy a paj.
But l'm sure the landy will be around when the japs have rusted and gone. :P
Who abouts do you trial with? I might come over one day if it's close and watch.
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Don't worry when I get out there and thrash them they'll have a bit more respect for the humble Shoggie - I doubt if they'll see any more sense though
Even a suzuki owner like me has to laugh at a bold statement like that.
Good luck :lol:
The first part or the second part of the statement?? :lol: :lol: :lol:
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Don't worry when I get out there and thrash them they'll have a bit more respect for the humble Shoggie - I doubt if they'll see any more sense though
Sounds fair enough to me, name the time and the place and we'll see if we can get Muddyweb, Eeyore, Redline and a couple of others down.. you can play follow my leader :)
There's nothing wrong with the Paj, other than it's owners seem to take such an overly defensive attitude, do you all have some chronic inferiority complex or something ?
honestly, if they were that bad, why would Thrasher have bought one for his missus ?
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There's nothing wrong with the Paj, other than it's owners seem to take such an overly defensive attitude, do you all have some chronic inferiority complex or something ?
I haven't taken a defensive attitude, just pointing out that the argument should be balanced.
Anyway isn't it a Land Rover that's called Defender :lol: :lol: :lol:
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i have a feeling that is more to do with its military heritage, which of course Mitsubishi also have. Including making military 4x4 prototype way back in 1937...errr and kamakazi dive bombers!! :shock:
Have fun in your divine wind!
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The offer to accompany Mudlark on a novice challenge didn't involve the Disco. As you rightly state, its far from standard. The offer was to accompany him using a 110 with a set of A/T tyres on. It would seem that Mudlark see's the need to fit a winch and take advantage of the locking rear diff .... if he turns up. I know what a standard 110 can do, I know where I can drive one and just how far it will go. I have no doubt that the Paj will be put to shame. I've had a Paj and wouldn't have a second one unless it was for destruction testing. The Paj owners seem to have a lot to learn about the differences in capabilities between standard Landrovers and Mitsi's of the same age.
Why do Paj's have a locking rear diff as standard? Because they need them.
Although I wasn't going to get involved in this debate I have to leap to Mudlarks defence slightly on this one.
Did a Scorpion Challenge event in mine this year. Drove it home too. So after all the trolling and gobbing off, is Mudlark saying that he doubts the Paj's ability to complete a novice event intact?
Here's the Disco just coming in to land! (picture courtesy of www.scorpionracing.co.uk )
(http://www.scorpionracing.co.uk/OFFROAD/News/2006/events/NOV3/novr3p599.jpg)
The vehicle pictured above is hardly what you would call a novice/standard vehicle. Surely a more balanced argument would be can a standard Shogun/Pajero go everywhere a standard LR can go :?: and from what i've seen the answer would be yes. ergo a Shogun or Pajero modified to the same standard of a modified LR would also be equally up to the job. The big advantage of LR over jap is the availability of off the shelf bits to modify them in this country (how many off road modified Shogun/Pajeros have you seen lately :?: ) which will always give the impression that LR's are a more capable off road tool.
Personally I picked my SWB Pajero because it was much cheaper than a 90 (SWB, Diesel, £1000 all in with some secondhand All Terrains :shock:) and bang for bucks i can have just as much fun in it :wink: i'm not actually bias either way, I trial a Suzuki SJ simply because I don't care if it gets a few dents (although I have trialed the Pajero on occasions :twisted: ) But would happily own a LR if one came my way, I very nearly bought a Disco as my work vehicle but it didn't have quite enough length in the back for what i wanted (hence the Delica :wink: )
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I'd still rather push a Land Rover than drive a bitsamissing :D
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If it wasn't for jap motors, then Land Rover would still be building leaf sprung SIII :wink:
Jap motors have kept Land Rover on their toes ensuring they keep developing into what they are now.
The designers of my Isuzu were told to build a vehicle that would equal a Range Rover classic V8. It does that very well with a nice 3.1L diesel engine that will out pull a standard V8 of that era.
The only downfall of my vehicle is that it is a bit low, but with the right modifications would equal a modifieded disco.
I have seen a Defender TD5 pulling a 14' Ivor Williams trailer with 3.5 tonnes on the back of it stuck on a gravel road because it had the front wheel wanting to lift up into the air. Unhiched the trailer off the back of the Defender and hooked the Isuzu to it and it pulled the trailer in 2WD, that's why we have a rear limited slip diff. I still had 4WD if I wanted it.
As long as the bodywork doesn't touch the ground then it keeps on going :D
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Don't worry when I get out there and thrash them they'll have a bit more respect for the humble Shoggie - I doubt if they'll see any more sense though
Sounds fair enough to me, name the time and the place and we'll see if we can get Muddyweb, Eeyore, Redline and a couple of others down.. you can play follow my leader :)
There's nothing wrong with the Paj, other than it's owners seem to take such an overly defensive attitude, do you all have some chronic inferiority complex or something ?
honestly, if they were that bad, why would Thrasher have bought one for his missus ?
Im in 8) Wales again?
I feel like driving a slope :lol: :lol:
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If it wasn't for jap motors, then Land Rover would still be building leaf sprung SIII :wink:
If it wasn't for the COIL SPRUNG Range Rover there wouldn't be a market for family 4x4 at all
I have seen a Defender TD5 pulling a 14' Ivor Williams trailer with 3.5 tonnes on the back of it stuck on a gravel road because it had the front wheel wanting to lift up into the air. Unhiched the trailer off the back of the Defender and hooked the Isuzu to it and it pulled the trailer in 2WD, that's why we have a rear limited slip diff. I still had 4WD if I wanted it.
Well you can't do anything about driver error. If the trailer noseweight was high enough to lift the front wheels of a Defender then it's very, very illegal.
If the Defender driver hasn't got the nouse to engage diff lock then tell him to join the "slap with a wet fish queue" over there.
Axle difflocks are fitted by manufacturers who know they have an articulation problem :wink:
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the g wagon has them and scores badly on the rti ramp.... to say the least. Me 9ft 4inch mates g just over 3 ft..... says a lot really.
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the g wagon has them and scores badly on the rti ramp.... to say the least. Me 9ft 4inch mates g just over 3 ft..... says a lot really.
True, very true: doesn't seem to hinder it offroad though :lol:
It just likes to wave at you! it went up Stanagde virtually on three wheels all the time, no bother
anyway back to winches.......................Hydraulic vs electric :roll:
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electric dear boy. cheaper and way quicker.....unless you spend a zillion quid
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electric dear boy. cheaper and way quicker.....unless you spend a zillion quid
Take the whole system into account - extra battery, charge splitter, bigger alternator. (won't add on the possibility of burnt out motors :wink: )
Pit that against Hydraulic, is electric still cheaper?
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to run an occasional use electric winch you dont need to do any of that...i didnt and still recovered 6 vehicles with a gew 9000lb winch.
Theres a lot of crap talked that you NEED to do this and that straight away...bull.
My alternator is the original and works fine and dont even get me started on split charge, for winching they are not the best option anyway.
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I'm with Bully on that one.
I ran my 90 with a Superwinch X9 on the front for years with it connected to the one & only battery in the vehicle, no split charge, no twin battery setup, and the standard alternator.
It wasn't used for winch challenges, just for getting me or someone else out of the mud occasionally. :wink:
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I have seen a Defender TD5 pulling a 14' Ivor Williams trailer with 3.5 tonnes on the back of it stuck on a gravel road because it had the front wheel wanting to lift up into the air. Unhiched the trailer off the back of the Defender and hooked the Isuzu to it and it pulled the trailer in 2WD, that's why we have a rear limited slip diff. I still had 4WD if I wanted it.
Well you can't do anything about driver error. If the trailer noseweight was high enough to lift the front wheels of a Defender then it's very, very illegal.
If the Defender driver hasn't got the nouse to engage diff lock then tell him to join the "slap with a wet fish queue" over there.
Axle difflocks are fitted by manufacturers who know they have an articulation problem :wink:
This was on a gravel road with a 90 degree uphill bend with a slight water runoff causing the Defender to crossaxle slightly, ie the ground pressure was less on the front wheel. He had his diff locked. The load was perfectly positioned on the trailer. The driver has 40+ years experience of LR products and lives on a farm and knew what he was doing.
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One day Land-Rover owners are going to take off those rose coloured glasses they always wear and acknowledge the fact that Land-Rovers are not necessarly the best vehicle to get the job done.
I know they're almost half way there by the amount of modding that they do, fitting portals, difflocks, big american motors, dislocators In fact on some the only thing to come out of Solihul is the bodywork. :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:
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i see so wanting to improve is something bad?
I dont see the problem myself and personally feel its each to their own. If we all thought the same way progress wouldnt happen and we would all still have horses.... now they dont get stuck.
Anyway , money where your mouth is...put up or shut up.... :wink:
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No manufacturer builds a vehicle that is perfect in all conditions/circumstances. Most of us realize that, some don't :wink:
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i see so wanting to improve is something bad?
I dont see the problem myself and personally feel its each to their own. If we all thought the same way progress wouldnt happen and we would all still have horses.... now they dont get stuck.
Anyway , money where your mouth is...put up or shut up.... :wink:
Wanting to improve is not something bad contrarywise I think it's good too.
I too feel it's each to their own and if you feel the need to change everything so what, especially if you end up with a better motor, and most guys do, you've got to agree, otherwise they wouldn't do it.
But at the end of the day if you change everything except the bodywork then the thing that is getting from A-B is not a Land-Rover (or a jap motor if it comes to that) but at best a hybrid.
If a L-R owner had absolute faith in his vehicle (yes I know there are some) then they wouldn't have to do any modifications at all would they? :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:
PS money is scarce at the moment as most gets spent on improvements to the motor or off-roading necessities :wink: :lol: :lol: :lol:
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Anyway , money where your mouth is...put up or shut up.... :wink:
YIP YIP
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One day Land-Rover owners are going to take off those rose coloured glasses they always wear and acknowledge the fact that Land-Rovers are not necessarly the best vehicle to get the job done.
I know they're almost half way there by the amount of modding that they do, fitting portals, difflocks, big american motors, dislocators In fact on some the only thing to come out of Solihul is the bodywork. :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:
a std 90 driven properly would still p*** on your pajero ! :shock:
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One day Land-Rover owners are going to take off those rose coloured glasses they always wear and acknowledge the fact that Land-Rovers are not necessarly the best vehicle to get the job done.
I know they're almost half way there by the amount of modding that they do, fitting portals, difflocks, big american motors, dislocators In fact on some the only thing to come out of Solihul is the bodywork. :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:
a std 90 driven properly would still p*** on your pajero ! :shock:
There is a slight possibility that you'd be right, however a 90 does have a 17" advantage over my Shogun. :wink:
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so, whats with all this about us land rover owner reckoning theyre better than anything else about then :roll:
cos what youve just said is that they are :lol: so to speak
but, before i get into a slagging match
all have there good points in there own little way
like yours for instance, its got a certain degree of underbody protection fitted as std :wink: albeit not very thick , but sommet better than nuffink rite :wink:
end of the day, land rovers dominate the offroad scene
mainly because of there being that many accessories and toys around for them
parts are readily avalible....and not through the main steal agents coff JEEP coff coff :lol:
yes ok they aint bombproof, but nuffin is, but they that simple and easy to work on out in field it makes them perfect
ok comfort wise they never gonna beat a paj but they walk all over any other 4x4 on the market that will be used offroad simply because of them reasons
danny
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o and another thing
they better on fuel aswel :shock:
ok redline mike ( smokeynthebandit) is a exception :lol: :lol:
as his is worser than a v8 atm :lol: :lol:
danny
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end of the day, land rovers dominate the offroad scene
mainly because of there being that many accessories and toys around for them
parts are readily avalible....and not through the main steal agents coff JEEP coff coff :lol:
Now you've got it, I been trying to get this point through to you for ages, the only reason that L-Rs are seen to be so good is because they get loaded with mods.
Pit a standard 110 against a LWB paj or a 90 against a SWB paj and it'll be the driver that make the difference :wink: :lol:
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o and another thing
they better on fuel aswel :shock:
ok redline mike ( smokeynthebandit) is a exception :lol: :lol:
as his is worser than a v8 atm :lol: :lol:
danny
Fixed now :wink:
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end of the day, land rovers dominate the offroad scene
mainly because of there being that many accessories and toys around for them
parts are readily avalible....and not through the main steal agents coff JEEP coff coff :lol:
Now you've got it, I been trying to get this point through to you for ages, the only reason that L-Rs are seen to be so good is because they get loaded with mods.
Pit a standard 110 against a LWB paj or a 90 against a SWB paj and it'll be the driver that make the difference :wink: :lol:
we only mod them because we go further, drive harder and want more from our trucks
take for example me
i compete in winch challenge events
so i got to have all the toys to stand a chance of top 3 :wink:
so far 9.5k all in all as she sits outside in the yard right now
but for a people ho do lanes and stuff, you dont need mod them
snorkel and some decent mus tyres, thats all you need
most people mod them for looks
and they never eve sniff mud :shock:
a std land rover will still be miles better than your pajero simply cos...hight
trans
and suspention travle
it all depends what you use your truck 4
me...chllenges = big big money
u ( afink lanes) nothing as its a green lane std anything will do it
you quite simply dont need a fancy all singing all dancing 4x4 to do greenlanes
or play days infact
cos 2BH i find anything other than challenges in mine is boaring, cos itll do it piece o p**s cos its got everthing
where as you will have a great day getting muddy, getting towed out simply cos its a challenge
id have a std 90 anday for messing around
quite simply more fun than i could ever have in mine
danny
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I reckon that having thin underbody protection is worse than having none at all, it instills a false sense of safety.
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bloody 'ell kids...
each to their own
i have a land rover because i like em
loads of blokes are work have paj's cos they like em
lets all chill and get on....no wonder the ramblers rip the 4x4 world apart!
BACK ON TOPIC
i would personally say electric...and also that all this split charge business is a waste of money unless you are taking part in a winch challenge.
I had a Warn xd9000i (for sale btw) on my RRC..used on an offroad week pretty frequently off my 1 battery with a standard alternator and i never had any electrical or starting problems!
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:used on an offroad week pretty frequently off my 1 battery with a standard alternator and i never had any electrical or starting problems!
I don't know what size the alternator is on the landie but providing it equals or is bigger than the winch one battery should be enough providing the engine is running fast enough for the alternator to run the winch.
Only when the engine stops are you going to run into problems with the battery :wink: :lol:
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bloody 'ell kids...
each to their own
i have a land rover because i like em
loads of blokes are work have paj's cos they like em
lets all chill and get on....no wonder the ramblers rip the 4x4 world apart!
Well said that man =D>
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mudlark, your answer above shows you dont really grasp electrical winch thing at all..All electrical winches can and will draw huge amps (450+) alternators only throw out max 140. The difference is made up from your battery. I would love to see an alternator that big but think you might lose more than a few horsepower.
That is why people fit deepcycle batteries as they can stand being fully discharged without damaged.
Whats wrong with a healthy debate? yes each to their own but the world would be boring otherwise and as for no mickey taking...hey thats part of life.
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Whats wrong with a healthy debate? yes each to their own but the world would be boring otherwise and as for no mickey taking...hey thats part of life.
I'm all in favour of that, let's just keep it friendly :wink:
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i would personally say electric...and also that all this split charge business is a waste of money unless you are taking part in a winch challenge.
I'm going to disagree there.... IMHO, split charge systems have no place on a competition vehicle... just more money and complication you don't need.
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Tim that echos what i was saying earlier.
Split charge is great in a overland / expedition vehicle when a dead battery means you are stuck miles from help.
They just help to kill the battery if you use one to isolate when winching. As they stop the alternator charging the battery attached to the winch. This then overloads the batt and as the voltage drops the amp draw increases...qed dead batt real quick.
2 batts linked together are better as the voltage drop is slower, helping to reduce the load.
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mudlark, your answer above shows you dont really grasp electrical winch thing at all..All electrical winches can and will draw huge amps (450+) alternators only throw out max 140.
I wrote without checking :oops: :oops: :oops: :oops: :oops: :oops: :oops: :oops: :oops: :oops: :oops: :oops: guess I had the no load amps stuck in my brain.
So this basically means that a deep cycle should be used for the winch and not rely on a single battery.
Your split charging theory is interesting as well, surely the alternator should be programed to charge the discharging battery or in the case of petrols the major discharging battery?
Does this not happen with a charge splitter?
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no split chargers are designed to protect the starter battery, which is not the one generally used for the winch. Thats why they are used for exped trucks. Thye can run fridges lights etc without the risk of not starting the following morning.
Most systems dont like to be connected to anything drawing that level of amps...it tends to fry them!!
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Well I find this post entertaining :) :)
parallel battery wiring gets my vote too as long as batteries are of same type and bought at the same time.
I reckon that having thin underbody protection is worse than having none at all, it instills a false sense of safety.
are we still talking about off-roading here or the merits of blokes wearing thongs :?: :?: If so I agree and thongs on men should be banned ! :wink: :wink: Although I'm not keen on going commando either so boxers get my vote :)
Steve 8)
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bloody 'ell kids...
each to their own
i have a land rover because i like em
loads of blokes are work have paj's cos they like em
lets all chill and get on....no wonder the ramblers rip the 4x4 world apart!
BACK ON TOPIC
i would personally say electric...and also that all this split charge business is a waste of money unless you are taking part in a winch challenge.
I had a Warn xd9000i (for sale btw) on my RRC..used on an offroad week pretty frequently off my 1 battery with a standard alternator and i never had any electrical or starting problems!
i do the challenges and dont have split charge and most dont :lol: :lol:
100a altenator and twin bats in parellel
remember KISS :wink:
as for electric vs hydraulic
prefer electric, pop your truck on its side... how u get back on all 4 with hydo winch :wink:
aslo it cost about 2k ish to get the system sorted properly not bodged :shock:
proper sorted 8274 around 1.2k
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I just have an 80 amp alternator and twin batteries for my winch, I've never had a problem with it.
Oh, hang on, that's 'cos I don't often get stuck :wink:
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come along to the next challenge we run...i can guarantee some sticking :wink:
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:lol: and me :lol:
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no probs, will post on here when its arranged