Mud-club
Vehicle & Technical => Military => Topic started by: steve howes on October 18, 2006, 13:58:27
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thinking of buying a stalwart there's a nice one for sale in this months military mag . question is do you need a hgv licence todrive one . thanks
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According to Wikipedia, they're 9 tonnes, so you wouldn't be able to drive one on a normal C1 license.
"http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alvis_Stalwart_(FV620)" (can't make it a hyperlink as it has brackets in it)
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i belive there class 2
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Isn't it a class 3
(7.5 - 10ton)
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thanks for the replys . thats my plans messed up ( no hgv licence ) :oops:
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In fact I seem to remember reading that they were too wide for the public road without an escort - don't know whether this is true.
Regards
H
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8'7" according to the Wikipedia article. Maybe one of the many HGV drivers here can say whether this is exceptionally wide. The 101 is 7'7" wide including the roll cage, and I certainly get the impression that there are much wider vehicles out there than me.
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Henry
there was a stollie at langly farm and I don't recall seeing any escort vehicle
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As far as I can recall there are a couple of problems, I would do some serious checking up first.
I believe they are too wide to be classed as a normal HGV (I think the hubs might be the widest point) however I think that if you can get one with a jib it can be classed as a mobile crane, anyone like to confirm?
I do know that wind-up is a serious problem when driving on sealed surfaces as the transmission is fully locked, apparently it was common practice to bump them up kerbs to get the wheels in the air or onto a loose surface when travelling any distance on the road.
Fuel consumption is a real problem, a chap I knew who had one claimed between 1-2MPG so it was more cost effective to take it to play days etc on a low loader.
The other usual problems with a vehicle of this size are obvious.
You need to be able to tackle more than simple DIY servicing to look after it and spares can be rare & expensive. When playing off-road you have to be sure that there is something of a similar size to drag you out if you get stuck, a couple of LR's won't make much impression on a heavily bogged Stally!
Apart from that they are great fun, I remember when the MOD off-loaded lots of them and you could pick them up (direct) for £2K. The same for the Abbott, that was also available for £2K and Chieftens were less than £10K. All these were good condition with equipment, not sheds which had reached the end of their service life. To put these prices into perspective, at the same time my 101 was a snip at £2K as it needed a rebuild!
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thinking of buying a stalwart there's a nice one for sale in this months military mag . question is do you need a hgv licence todrive one . thanks
I'd suggest you speak to the Military Vehicle Trust (http://www.mvt.org.uk/), they ought to put you in touch with an owner
Otherwise, I know someone with one & will ask him for you.
I think he drives his on a car licence, but 'don't quote me on that'
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thanks for that btm have just joined and asked the hgv question . waiting for reply. :lol:
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Otherwise, I know someone with one & will ask him for you.
I think he drives his on a car licence, but 'don't quote me on that'
I've e-mailed Neil & awaiting a reply.
My father-in-law was a driving instructor on them when he was in the Army & based in Germany.
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You can drive any Heavy vehicle of any size.....Including a Mighty Antar and trailer if it was built before 1960 on a car license, after 1960 you need an lgv license.
Mobile crane law was changed in 2000-2001, you cannot drive a mobile crane over 7.5 tons on a car license period.
I have had heavy military trucks, so am up on this law.
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Also another factor in this is for "recreational use", and not for monetary gain
Its a minefield :?
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Blanchards have one for sale complete with swimming kit and hiab.
http://www.pablanchard.co.uk/product.asp?productID=39532
They would be able to advise on road use too, I'm sure.
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Also another factor in this is for "recreational use", and not for monetary gain
Its a minefield :?
It is only a minefield if you do not understand it, understand it and it is straightforward. :D
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But if it's fitted with a bunk , sink and cooker isn't it a camper? Much like double decker buses that are converted...
So errect a tent in the back, roll out your sleeping bag and plumb in a sink and cooker, hey presto! :lol:
Car MOT too! just need to find someone with a big enough lift then.
Lee D
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The one at blanchards, they say is 4 tonnes so not that heavy really.
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Car MOT too! just need to find someone with a big enough lift then.
Lee D
In reality if you can get it done this way, you would still have to send it through a hgv testing station, cause of the weight
Mind you with a Hiab on it you could have a tax excempt vehicle
Loads of options and paths, good luck
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The one at blanchards, they say is 4 tonnes so not that heavy really.
I think that might be the carrying capacity which would make it 7 or 8 tons I guess.
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Steve, sorry for the late reply (I didn't get the chance to post last night)
Here's the text as Neil sent it to me;
Take particular note of the last paragraph, re; wind-up
Hi Richard,
No problems my friend - all up weight of the Mk 2 FV622 is 9.5 tonnes, the FV623 and FV624 are up to 11.5 tonnes because of the crane and technically a Stalwart needs the equivalent of a HGV2 license - NOT a HGV3 - as a Stalwart is a Rigid Multi-Axle. I think this is now called a C1?
Unfortunately Stalwarts all date (with the exception of a VERY FEW Mk 1's and the prototypes) after the 1960 cut-off date but I've spoken to D who, as you know, is a traffic Police Officer and his recommendation was to say it's being driven as a Mobile Project Vehicle. The section of the DVLA web site is:
http://www.direct.gov.uk/Motoring/DriverLicensing/WhatCanYouDriveAndYourObligations/WhatCanYouDriveArticles/fs/en?CONTENT_ID=4022499&chk=EIOA0f
and the relevant part is:
"i. play/educational equipment and articles required in connection with the use of such equipment
ii. articles required for the purposes of display or of an exhibition, and the primary purpose of which is used as a recreational, educational or instructional facility when stationary
Drivers must be aged 21 and have held a category B licence for at least 2 years. A mobile project vehicle may only be driven on behalf of a non-commercial body. However, drivers who passed their car test before 1 January 1997 are not subject to these conditions."
I carry a set of laminated A0 size information posters that are displayed on one of the inside faces of a side drop-gate when parked up at an event. D did go on to say though that:
"To be honest in this day and age I very much doubt that,
1) you would ever get stopped.
2) The 'Hombre' that stopped you would have any idea of which exemptions you could claim, (unless you struck the jackpot and met an 'old time' traffic cop, of which we are a dying breed!!).
Hope this helps, it is worth thinking of a couple of points though. If you decided to contact DVLA and they said Niet, would your conscience allow you to go ahead regardless? Knowing you I think not. If however you decided to go ahead based on what you interpreted from the DVLA web site, and lets face it if they can't get it right who can? if you ever got stopped the worst I could see you could be reported for is 'driving otherwise than in accordance with a licence', this is a very broad offence brought in to 'simplify' things, in reality it is a get out clause for all the little [!Expletive Deleted!], but if you were to defend yourself and point out that you were only driving based on the info you gleaned from DVLA web site then I think you would get off.
It's a very listened too defence by the courts these days, "I would never have done it if I knew it was illegal your worship" In these days with the all powerful Human rights act, they have to justify to you why they find you guilty, and IMHO I think they would struggle given what I've said above."
I'd appreciate it if you didn't quote that bit though but feel free to phrase the info in another way!! Obviously the trick is to not to anything to draw attention (other than you'd get from a 1960's MV on 6 wheels waddling down the road) by making sure it's in top line mechanically, all the electrics work, esp lights and not doing dumb things like swinging all over the road. The last might sound daft but unless you are used to a Stalwarts steering the rams can take over and it can literally take the whole width of a road to regain control.
These old girls were meant for hammering across ploughed fields at up to 40 mph chasing the MBT's for resupply and repair, not running on roads. The fact they CAN do roads is a testimony to their design I feel.
Road trips of more than 10 to 20 miles will need action taken to alleviate wind up. Either by finding a gravel car park for a couple of circles or - if big enough - figure of eights or by finding a deep enough grass verge for a couple of hundred yards or, at the last resort, by bumping up and down kerbs a few times.
If I can help in any other way please feel free to ask.
Regards,
Neil.
I'll ask if I can give you his e-mail in case you've got further questions
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They certainly don't sound like a vehicle for a touring holiday :lol: But if you do get one, Steve, I'll be first in the queue for a drive :D
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Sound like you could do with a low loader for it too then :wink:
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thanks for all the help guys , sorry not replyed sooner modem knackerd on computer using one down the library . still thinking hard about stolly. could well be a possiblity cheers muddytubbie.