Mud-club
Vehicle & Technical => Military => Topic started by: thermidorthelobster on November 14, 2005, 11:49:38
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Driving back down on the A-roads and motorways from somewhere near Leicester last night (to find a bloody LPG station which was open and had fuel) I did a bit of arithmetic.
101FC, 6x6, 4.25 tonnes, 3.5 V8 High Compression @ about 158bhp theoretically, 55mph cruising speed. 75 litres of LPG, 122 miles between fills... AAARGH! That's just under 8mpg!
Now I'd never expected the economy to be brilliant, but this is beyond the pale... Particularly as it runs *better* on LPG than Unleaded. Even allowing for inaccurate LPG tank filling it's a bit of a disaster.
Should I be looking for ways to improve this, or is it just what I should expect?
Any other V8 drivers towing trailers on a regular basis at about this weight? What are you getting?
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err, fit bigger/more gas tanks :wink:
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:lol:
Try a big V8 diesel....
or may be a fuel tanker for a trailer
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On petrol, towing our big exhibition unit (around 2 tonnes, and the shape of a house), I reckon to be getting between 12-15mpg... but that isn't being overly sympathetic to the loud pedal :-)
Maybe you should work on pence per mile, rather than mpg... might make you feel better ;-)
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Yes, it's pence per mile that you need to work out .. I get around 12mpg on gas I think, but that's under 15p a mile usually and since the wife's Galaxy TDi costs 11p a mile I don't consider it bad !
I think you'd struggle to do much better than that too, it's an awful lot of weight to lug around really.
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That didn't cheer me up that much. It's still 25p per mile, compared to 19p per mile in the Disco and about 9p per mile in Abby's Rover 200.
However, the other concern is range. I'm after as long a range as possible on Unleaded for my Africa trip. At the moment I can carry 100l in the tank plus 120l in jerries - that makes less than a 400 mile range. I was hoping to get at least 600 miles between fills. Bear in mind the economy could as much as halve on sand - that brings the range down to 200 miles. Fitting another 100l tank would help (range if not weight) but if I can squeeze some more economy out somewhere that would be better!
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You have gas, what about an adaptor for bottle gas to plumb it into the high pressure system from the gas tank
Its not legal in the uk, but over there as long as you can buy bottle gas?
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That still beats alot of Yank tanks that are coming over here!
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You have gas, what about an adaptor for bottle gas to plumb it into the high pressure system from the gas tank
Its not legal in the uk, but over there as long as you can buy bottle gas?
I have heard of people decanting (via a kit/adaptors/valving) from their home 'Calor-Gaz' tanks.
Highly illegal, & apparantly very cheap
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What you need is a none road going LPG burning engined machine. That way you can get a LPG bulk tank at home, then you don't have to pay any duty on the gas. One farmer I heard of bought an LPG powered fork lift just to justify a liquid take off point for the farm bulk tank that fed the grain driers. Strange that he then changed both Discoveries and the farm defender from TDI to V8.
Mike
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I bet the fork truck had a low mpg :)
Something like 5 gallons to the mile :lol:
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You can buy mains pumps for lpg to fill the tanks, from bottles, A lot of the fitters have them to pressure and test new systems when fitting.
They are illegal to use them in the UK though for other uses :wink:
Handy in the middle of nowhere (ie Africa) with an invertor though
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Africa How much would it cost to get from one side to the other :shock: :shock: "in the 101"
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Well, fortunately petrol is between $0.40 and $0.80 a litre, so not as much as it would cost to get across Europe...
Shipping it back from Ghana will cost a bit though.
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They are illegal to use them in the UK though for other uses :wink:
I was under the impression you can fill your vehicle up from calor gas bottles provided you pay C+E the relevant duty.
thermidor, your economy isnt too bad, i get around 12 mpg on LPG and thats a standard LR110....which should by rights be far more economical than your beast....
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thermidor, your economy isnt too bad, i get around 12 mpg on LPG and thats a standard LR110....which should by rights be far more economical than your beast....
Well, that makes me feel a bit better. If you were towing a 2 tonne trailer presumably that'd put you at about 9-10. Add in the fact that the 101 is about as aerodynamic as a house, and has extra friction from the drivetrain and large tyres, and it's not totally out of the ballpark then.
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At 36pence/litre I'm getting 10p a mile out of the 3.9 and it doesn't get a lot worse towing my NATO trailer around full of c**p. I'd be tempted to think you can improve a little with some tuning mods. A decent air box and sports exhaut might make a difference, as would converting to a reliable EFi system (therein lies the problem).
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Just had a thought, your other post says it's an SD1 engine? if so it's probably tuned for the car rather than the RRC and that might make a difference. Anyway, you can get a bit more power by adding the 3.9 camshaft. Remeber that power and economy tuning are the same thing up to a point.
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My 130 DC, with goose trailer fully loaded on long trips gives about 16/gallon, thats diesel, 4.2TD Toyota Landcruiser engine, but 7500 gross weight.
My Strange Rover 5.7L i drove to Sussex, and got 12mpg, and i was going steady.
So your 101 isnt that bad.
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I get 10 - 11 MPG of LPG towing my 21ft caravan up hill and down dale (Yorkshire) out of a 3.9 EFI RRC V A
Which when calculated to compare with petrol works out at approx 22 - 25 MPG (depends how much you pay for petrol LPG in your area)
So for the size of your beast you aint doin bad.
You will get better MPG in hot areas as the gas will vaporise easier but you will not get as much in the tank for the same reason.
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I've just had a thought. You're running Unimog wheels arn't you? These I understand from your other thread are bigger than the 101 rims? If so then there are 2 things, firstly the bigger tyres will make it thirsty, both with their own inertia and also by gearing up the drivetrain. Secondly your speedo and therefore odometer are not accurate, so the 8 miles you get on a gallon of LPG is possibly 9 or more miles?
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Your driving one and a half 101s at the end of the day.
Will it drive with the centre wheels removed? Would look odd but would no doubt transform your drive. Shame you can't lift an axle.
If you could bung a big diesel in it then you wouldn't do much worse.. look at HGV's consumption. At least then you can look at single fuel for the trip.. i.e. dump the gas tanks and carry more derv.
If you stick with Petrol you should have plenty of places to hang a tank under the chassis.. or at least several small tanks joined together.
Lee
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well my DAF 65 does 15 mpg, and the Volvo FL6 does 11 mpg.. daf is 6.5 tonnes empty the volvo is 9 empty
ditch the rover lump bite the bullet and get a gmc 6.5 diesel conversion..guy scross the road from me converted his 3.5 efi rangie and doubled his mpg - from 12 to mid twneties!!
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My only reservation then would be to pay attention to the weight of the engine. The 101 runs on Parabolics and they just sit nice with a light V8 in.
A big diesel unit is going to weigh in alot heavier and also put extra strain on the steering. :?
Lee
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Just thinking about this again, how efficient is the engine running? Can you smell gas in the exhaust? If so work back through the system ignition first, how good is the spark? Do you use top quality plugs and more importantly leads? have you fitted a spark booster? Is the timing advanced to suitable LPG setting?
Then to the LPG system. Have you cleaned out the vaporiser recently? What air filter are you using? is it clean?
LPG is fussy ablout all the above and more, get it all right and you should get 90% of petrol MPG. Get one or two wrong and it will plummett.
Mike
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Whoa, lots to think about!
The mileage reading I got was based on GPS odometer, so should be accurate. However, it was only over a short range, and given the LPG doesn't fill accurately from tank to tank, it could be well out in either direction.
The LPG was fettled last week by Gordon Finlay. The plugs are new, the leads are Magnecor, the dizzy cap and rotor arm are new; the vacuum advance is now working (it wasn't before), and the automatic LPG timing advance thing is also working fine. Gordon's given me about 15% more power, but I don't yet know how the economy has fared. It "feels" better but that may be wishful thinking.
I have electronic ignition, and it's OK, but the dizzy is a bit worn so the spark's not quite as regular as it could be.
I toyed with the idea of sticking a big diesel in, but there are issues with that:
1) Cost - I can buy a LOT of petrol for the several grand it would cost me
2) Transmission - the 6wd relies on the PTO from the LT95, which means I'd have to either keep the box or replace the entire transmission, and the gear ratios aren't really suited to a diesel IMHO
3) I also think I could risk a lot of expense for not much cost saving - I'm inclined to think a big diesel would burn quite a lot of the black stuff hauling all the weight around.
My solution for Africa is that I'm carrying 11 jerry cans on board. That means I can carry up to 320L of petrol, plus 110L or so of LPG (but not in Africa of course, where you can't buy it). This gives me a reasonable range, albeit a hefty bill at the pumps. (I considered another tank, but it's a lot of cost and hassle compared to jerry cans, which are rather easy and convenient).
If I was building this vehicle from scratch, I'd probably stick a large diesel in, but I'm growing to love the V8 for now.
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pity you didnt see the guy selling the disco bodied range rover with the chevvy v8 diesel lump fitted £650 with t+t
http://forums.mud-club.com/viewtopic.php?t=19178&start=0
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Not necessarily - it seems to be a bit of a sod to fit different engines in a 101. If you're lucky, you can get the new engine in through the passenger door on a long-armed crane... if you're not, you have to remove the body :x
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I'd take the axle off and slide it in from below :?
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Yeah, sounds a good idea, but I have a feeling the damn chassis gets in the way :x
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I've a feeling the book suggests removing the engine from below.
As for fuel, we averaged about 4.5km/l it made no real difference if we were in the desert or on highways. We had a larger 160l fuel tank made which fitted in the same space as the original, it hung down a little lower but no lower than the bottom of the transfer box most of the extra volume was made up in width, there was also just enough room to strap our pair of bridging ladders to the two outriggers so they ended up flush with the ambis body work. We had a rack of 4 jerries on the other side in place of the original battery box, and this provided more than enough range exept for one section where we anticipated 1000km between fuel so we bought some 25l plastic cooking oil cans and strapped them to the roof, putting this fuel into the tank as soon as there was space.
We also thought of a deisel conversion before we left but weighing it up we bought an lpg kit instead and left a year earlier than we could have if we'd paid out the money for a new engine. We have no regrets on this decision, Africa in a V8 is not a problem.
We broke both front and rear springs so the added weight of a deisel engine would have caused us more problems I think.
Chris
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