Mud-club
Chat & Social => The Bar - General Chat => Topic started by: MuddyMike on November 09, 2005, 19:58:33
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Hi folks
My daft son has just been nicked for doing 100.7 mph on the M18. It was a marked traffic car pulled him and showed him the speed he was doing on a screen in the car. Anyone have any experiance of the likely penalty?
Mike
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I hate to be the bearer of bad news but the 0.7 could well be the killer for his licence, if he avoids a ban it will likely be heavy.
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I know of a couple of people at work that have been caught at speeds exceeding 100mph. (birmingham toll road)
If his job depends on him having a licence then it could be that you can suffer a sentence that it weighted toward a very short ban (x weeks, take it as holiday) but with a real heavy fine.
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It will also depend on how long ago he passed his test. I seem to remember if you got 6 points in the first 2 years (could be less) then you have to retake your test. But most times now over 100mph its at least 28 days ban.
Paul
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Ooh, had a feeling of deja vu then. :D
As I said in "the other place", post ton is bad. It usually involved court hearings.
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I know a while ago it was a mandatory court appearance for over 90 mph, and an automatic ban for over 100 (unless 'hardship' can be argued as stated above. Heavy fine is (almost) a certainty - the courts can be unpredictable.
Years ago I was working in a petrol station and a woman drove in on a bare rim - sparks everywhere. Wanted me to change her tyre - she'd got to go to Ramsgate (about 40 miles down the M2). So drunk she could hardly stand. I 'lost' her keys & reported her to the police.
Nearly empty bottle of scotch on the passenger seat. She was carted off.
I later had to go to court - not because she pleaded not guilty, but because she was trying to keep her licence. And she did!
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i'm sorry but anybody speeding to that extent deserves what they get. no roads in britian have that speed limit anyway. what was he thinking? brains are in my big toe! sorry but i have reasons to feel like that and they are not pleasent. all i'm saying on it is it involves an 8 yr old who sadly is not with us anymore.
DEBBIE
JUST MY OPINION NOT GETTING AT ANYBODY
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if i was him id ask for a kiss & a cuddle as he is most likely *****,sorry to say that but got a load of now ex mates who have done the same sort of thing & now need lifts everywhere.
as the others say if he needs his license could plead guilty & try n get them to be leniant <sp> & /OR get a good lawyer to try n get him of on a technicality,
know a nugget not far from me who was looking at a ban for undertaking,65 in a 30 & dangerous driving,got off with 5 points & a £700 fine due to his lawyer,(wouldve been better if he had been banned though)
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it depends
they do an average
and if the average is 100.7 it might be bye bye for 12 months and retake the test
what was the road conditions and traffic conditions like? i think they are contributing factors
and also how the coppers feel that day too.
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If he has had his license less than 2 years, then you best get him a bus time table. Might be able to survive a full ban if been driving longer.
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I have to say ban ban ban, there is nothing clever in doing those speeds in the first place!
Better tell him to get his motor on eblag. he wont be able to drive it anytime soon.
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What was he thinking of? It's common knowledge that >100mph is usually an instant ban. Why play with fire? 85 in a 70 is one thing, and 90 would be a distinct risk, but 100 is just daft. Sorry!
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My daft son has just been nicked for doing 100.7 mph on the M18. It was a marked traffic car pulled him and showed him the speed he was doing on a screen in the car. Anyone have any experiance of the likely penalty?
Hrmm....
Must be said the M18 is a long, straight, usually very quiet motorway...
However, my Girlfriends mom and dad have just moved up that way (Brigg) and I'm always suprised by the number of marked (and unmarked) Police cars around... and 99% of the time there is a Camera van parked on one of the bridges on either the M18 or M180...
Probably because of the fact it's a log straight usually clear motorway... :roll:
Did your son not notice a brightly marked police car following him??
Not condoning speeding, but if your doing that sort of speed and any car is following your every move... chances are it's a copper.
If he doesn't get banned... time to get him a Series 3 Diesel :wink:
They also like the driving 'rehab' course 'up north' may be able to lesser the points/fine by going on one of these.
My girlfriends dad got caught by the camera van doing 78 mph on the M18... got offered the 3 points and £60... or go on a course and pay £50. (not as bad as doing 100.7 though)
If it does go to court, the only thing you can ask for is a copy of the certificate showing that the police car speedo and video equipment was correctly calibrated, and the cert. is up to date.
Ian
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I knew someone 6 years ago, was caught doing 109 on the M25 at 3am.
He told the magistrate that he pleaded guilty but would like to say that the car was not capable of doing those speeds and therefore that the camera must not be calibrated correctly.
He went on to say that he needed his licence for his job and also to enable his children to enjoy a good social life. He also mentioned his frail grandma whom he took shopping.
The response was that the magistrate owned a ford dealership and knew the car in question (The defendant's car) and also knew the defendant (Who brought the car into him)
He stated that in his view the car could not only do that speed but could exceed that speed.
He asked if the defendant would like to change his plea to not guilty and defend it.
His response was "No"
He ended up with 6 points (Which was a minimum) and £250 fine.
Quite lucky as his car was in a pay and display just outside.
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If my memory serves me correctly you are looking at an automatic ban for 100 as it's 30 over the limit.
30mph over ANY limit is a ban....
60mph in a 30 limit
70mph in a 40 limit
80mph in a 50 limit
90mph in a 60 limit
100mph in a 70 limit
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i think it's 96.7 and you cannot take the fixed fine, you have to attend court.
(I was stopped doing 96.4 on the M4 racing to get out of wales and was quite happy when the pc told me)
It's not as clear cut as 30 over.
It's then down to the magistrates to decide if a ban is required.
I am sure there is a speed where an automatic ban is in place.
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100 mph is the barrier speed, Anything under and its only a ban and a fine.
i got caught doing 99mph, i was banned for two weeks. and fined £250.00 after going to Court (and driving there)
that was about 5 years ago.
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"Speeding Fines
This table below shows the basic fines you can expect to get for each offence but note that as from December 2004 each case will be looked at individually and assesed for weather conditions, road conditions time of day etc.
Speeding Offence Fine Costs Penalty Points
up to 15mph over the posted limit £44 £30 3
16mph to 25mph over the posted limit £45-£100 £30 4
26mph to 35mph over the posted limit £45-£200 £30 5-6
36mph or more over the posted limit £67-£300 £30 Ban 1 month to 12 months "
Association of Chief Police Officers Guidelines
Below is a table of the current guidelines given to the ACPO but there are new proposals for changes to some of these figures.
Limit Fixed Penalty Summons
20 mph 25 mph 35 mph
30 mph 35 mph 50 mph
40 mph 46 mph 66 mph
50 mph 57 mph 76 mph
60 mph 68 mph 86 mph
70 mph 79 mph 96 mph
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That ties in nicely with the 10% + 2mph guide I was once told about.
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Thanks for all the feedback folks. Why was he going so fast? I shall never know and certainly DO NOT condone it in any way. How anyone can get caught by a traffic car following them on a clear dry afternoon I do not know. SWMBO has threatened to take his keys away ban or not.
He tells me the police did not caution him "anything you say will be taken down" etc, should they have done?
He has no money, and I mean NO money, as, since leaving university in July has been working on creating a piece of softwear which he hopes to sell and make his fortune. During which time we have been supporting him with food and lodgings and he has been slowly spending the remains of his student loans.
We have made it clear that having done this stupid thing he will be resposible for paying any fine by finding work, but if he gets a ban as well then finding work will be virtually impossible here in rural North Yorkshire.
So I wonder what line the court will take?
Mike
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well, maybe he will have learnt his lesson,, is there a pub nearby where he can collect glass or wash pots or even a paper round on a push bike!
not taking the mick or anything but as you say he has no money!
DEBBIE
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He tells me the police did not caution him "anything you say will be taken down" etc, should they have done?
No, that's just for when you are arrested.
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He certainly won't forget in a hurry if he gets a hefty fine and the only income is from a paper round.
Only cautioned if arrested, that explains it then.
Mike
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No, that's just for when you are arrested.
Nope, it's for a caution also. I know. :oops:
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No, that's just for when you are arrested.
Nope, it's for a caution also. I know. :oops:
Do tell more, what format did it take for instance.
Mike
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I don't know where everyone's getting an instant ban from?
If he pleads mitigating circumstances not to get a ban then he can walk away with a fine.
I know from experience. My BIL got caught on the M1 after having been at Donington he was doing over 135 on a M/C. The coppers couldn't catch him but he pulled into the Leicester Forest East services and got caught.
I took him to court as he was expecting a ban already having 9 points.
He walked away with a large fine and no points (Don't ask me how).
He got done again and got away with a 21 day ban in a different court.
So there is an option for him to plead insanity or whatever and given the story you've told us he might get away easy especially if the car is vital to his work.
I must admit that my BIL had a company employing about 80 people and they relied on him being able to visit clients.
I, in no way condone this sort of driving and reckon a few months of catching the bus or pedalling a pushbike might have been better.
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I dont know we all hear stories of peolpe getting off with a lot worse...sadly thats never happen to me. I have never been done for speeding at anywhere near that speed (42 in a 30 at 6am on a deserted road through an industrail area and 77 on the motorway)but as someone said it all comes down to the police statement and the beak on the day.
The question i have is what speed did he think he was doing? My shogun shows 80 on the clock at a true 71mph ( checked by gps) what was on the clock and why the hurry?
Hopefully he will escape a long ban and learn a valuable lesson...speed really can be a killer.
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No, that's just for when you are arrested.
Nope, it's for a caution also. I know. :oops:
Do tell more, what format did it take for instance.
Mike
From http://www.cps.gov.uk/legal/section3/chapter_k.html:
The National Standards for Cautioning require that the following conditions are met before a caution may be administered by the police:
there is a realistic prospect of conviction;
the offender admits the offence;
the offender (or appropriate adult) understands the significance of a caution and gives informed consent to being cautioned.
Mine was something along the lines of:
"You are hereby being cautioned for the offence of driving without displaying a valid road fund license ( :oops: ). You have the right to remain silent yada yada yada...."
I believe these days it's "You're not obliged to say anything, but anything you do say will be taken down yada yada yada"
To which I was asked if I would like to respond. However, having just read the above from the CPS web site, it wasn't done properly. The dialogue went something like this:
Officer: Would you like a caution?
Me: :shock:
Officer: You are hereby yada yada yada
Me: :shock: Do I have to say something?
Officer: Yes
This was in Cleveland in the days of Ray "Robocop" Mallon and his Zero Tollerance days. So I only met 2 of the above 3 criteria, and kinda had it implied that my right to silence didn't exist.
However, I did wrong and got caught. So I'm not going to grumble too much.
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I condone speeding :)
In the right car, with the right weather, and with the right attention and skills to do so.
I like my little nutty car, its great, fun to drive and can break the 70 limit dead quick. but, it can also stop from 100 to 0 faster than a corsa 1.1 can get from 60 - 0! It has Stability control, Traction Control, ABS etc, and is far safer doing 90+ mph in my hands than a corsa 1.1 in a fresh drivers hands. Driving fast does not mean driving stupidly. Anyone driving like a donkey near a school during the day deserves everything they get, but at 3am, on a deserted motorway where pedestrians are banned, slow moving vehicles are banned, and you have a clear view for ~ 6+ miles, where is the harm? And why would you let police do it if it was unsafe? Having driven legally on the autobahns at ~140mph and been flashed over by various cars, I have to laugh at the "It's dangerous to speed" quotes. Germany has more motorways, higher standard limits even on the restricted motorways. More users of those motorways and less accidents, less fatalities.
It has been proven that driving faster can focus your attention more than being restricted to a limit where you gain a false sense of security. Both the AA and RAC have attempted to get motorway limits raised as cars are far safer and more stable now than they were 20 years ago.
Just my tuppenceworth.... Hope he learns his lesson but doesn't get a ban. You do have one hell of a point about his observation skills when driving :? but he will be far more observant after this :)
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I condone speeding :)
In the right car, with the right weather, and with the right attention and skills to do so.
The problem is, many people who end up mowing down a pedestrian weren't driving along thinking they were being a loon. Your judgment may be fine, but other people may have a different idea of what conditions, attention etc make it "OK" to speed.
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I'm finding this all very interesting. Now as an Instrutor I can't condone speeding but it's far worse done though the middle of a village (especially MY village) than on the M18, so that's one thing to be greatful for I suppose. Now as he's being charged he should have been cautioned, that's my understanding although I don't know the script (it's not "you're nicked my son" like on The Sweeny). Also if he gets 6 points or more within the first 2 years of his licence he's taking the test again, I'm not sure what applies to a ban after that period, it may be part of the sentance but for my money I'd have him retested if only to make him a probationary driver again.
I suppose as he's skint-as-strousers that it was your car too? but any ban is likely to have an impact on next year's insurance, that's when he'll really regret it.
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Also if he gets 6 points or more within the first 2 years of his licence he's taking the test again,
I suppose as he's skint-as-strousers that it was your car too? but any ban is likely to have an impact on next year's insurance, that's when he'll really regret it.
He has held his full licence for 5 years so your first point is not a problem. No its his car, the one we bought him as a graduation present, we paid the first years tax and insurance as well but from then on its down to him.
I wonder if he has any redress over not being cautioned, but then again it would be 2 coppers word against his, so probably not worth the hassle
Mike
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That comment from EvilEd is plain scary !!!
Yes I can drive fast but it's illegal. I don't agree with some of our speed limits but that's the law, if you don't like the law that doesn't mean you can break it.
How would you feel if I stole your car because I felt that I should be allowed? You feel you should be allowed to break the law but it's other peoples lives you are putting at risk.
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I wonder if he has any redress over not being cautioned, but then again it would be 2 coppers word against his, so probably not worth the hassle
Mike
Possibly, a caution has to be read to him, once his identity has been established, before questioning for the answers to the questions to be admissible in court.
To obtain a conviction the police will have to prove he was driving - presumably they saw him and will say so in their statements - and the speed that he was doing which is recorded on their video/camera. They may have no need for his answers to any questions to be presented to the court which may mean they had no need to caution him.