Mud-club
Chat & Social => The Bar - General Chat => Topic started by: the loon on October 07, 2005, 10:45:56
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http://cars.msn.co.uk/carnews/4x4soct05/
:roll: :( :roll:
wonder if we will have to start displaying stickers
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It gives you a 'VOTE' at the bottom, so I clicked on 'I have one and love it', but (what a suprise!) They're a menace seems to be winning...
Everyone GET VOTING QUICK, this is not like the other polls eg 'keep the Byway from x to y open' which NEED our votes, but it would be good to get a few more in our favour.
:twisted:
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Yup, I've voted. If you look at the stats., the tree huggers are in the minority (What a shock!!!). :lol:
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Everyone GET VOTING QUICK
Just have... :wink:
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i just voted and this is starting to really bug me as soon u might have to have a sticker on yer self saying im a hazard :roll: well i probaly am but that is a deffrent matter, this is goin way to far now in this nanny culture we live. :evil:
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Voted, this kinda thing is getting ridiculous. :evil:
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I vote to ban pedestrians from the road.... :) I could understand it if 4x4's were driving on the paverments... but lets face it, how BIG are some 4x4's and it's the size that they are getting at because of the height of the bonnet etc. so how the 'F' can pedestrians still no see them????
I can just see all those Jags paint warrenties going out the window because they have put a sticker on them!
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This is being coverd by today's ITN news as well, they want people to text in and give there views to there pulse lines.
http://www.itv.com/news/britain_1049574.html
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It makes a change with that one that the picture is not a Land Rover.
Still doesn't stop the problem though.
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how about carrying this warning sign on the front of your 4x4
IF YOU CAN READ THIS YOUR TO CLOSE
how about this for the diff guard
IF YOU CAN READ THIS ITS TO LATE
on a serious note whats more dangerous
some plodder in a 4x4
or some boy racer in a souped up go faster hot hatch
as the advert says
you are more likely survive being hit at 30mph than 40mph
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If you clean out your cookies after you vote you can vote again as many times as you like. :lol:
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It's at times like this I wish I hadn't written my "spam this pointless poll to beggery" script...
If I were any less of a man I'd add a couple of million to random suggestions just to make the data total garbage...
that is of course overlooking the fact that the entire article is garbage :(
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1. What do you think of large 4x4s/SUV vehicles? They're a menace (32%)
2. They're a minor irritation (6%)
3. I'd buy one if I could afford to (13%)
4. People can drive what they like (25%)
5. I have one and I love it! (24%)
If you add up 3, 4 and 5, were winning (62%)
Chris
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Yet more anti-4x4 b******s.
4x4 drivers have a far better view of the road, due to the higher seating position within the vehicle, and as has already been mentioned in this topic 'we' tend to drive a bit slower (well I do anyhow !) about town.
When is someone gonna form an anti-boy-racer-tw4t in a lowered car brigade - as its not going to be long before one of those little morons kills someone at the speed they blat around at.
Rant over.
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I voted 3 :lol:
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When is someone gonna form an anti-boy-racer-tw4t in a lowered car brigade - as its not going to be long before one of those little morons kills someone at the speed they blat around at.
I'm sure they have killed a fair few by now, hopefully most of their accidents involve themselves and a wall....
They improve their cars performance, but how many improve the brakes?
:evil:
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32% say no, but 25% have one and love em, also 25% say People can drive what they like
So 50% are for them in one way or another :wink:
Think on it, how big a percentage of the car population is 4x4 anyway, bout the same as the amount of byways driveable compared to the footpaths/bridleways and tro's?
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hi
here it is
daves guide to winning this vote
click tools
internet options
click the privacy tab
click advanced
tick overide auto cookie handling
click block cookies
and now you can keep voting
i am voting for i would have one if i could afford it
to show im not a biased 4x4 owner just Mr jo public :lol:
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http://cars.msn.co.uk/carnews/4x4soct05/
:roll: :( :roll:
wonder if we will have to start displaying stickers
As their own reseasrch states it's all based on AMERICAN statistics- quite how that applies to the UK I don't know?
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SOURCE ARTICLE
http://bmj.bmjjournals.com/cgi/content/full/331/7520/787?ehom
http://bmj.bmjjournals.com/cgi/reprint/331/7520/787
Please read it. Nothing about 'gas guzzling polluters' etc in there. Why can't journalists just report the original BMJ article factually without having to embellish news with thier own OPINIONS and AGENDAS. The original BMJ article is just common sense- older people wondering in front of heavy cars will get hurt- can't argue with that- we all knew it anyway and don't need two f*****g professors to tell us!
It just REALLY makes me mad when the journalists get hold of something like this they then have to add whatever they feel like to increase the anti 4x4 feelings that some misguided folk already have.
I FEEL AN ANGRY E-MAIL TO THE BEEB AND ITV COMING COMING ON ABOUT MIS-REPORTING THE FACTS!!
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I am quite happy to put a yellow warning sticker on my front and back bumpers. "Ramblers\Greenpeace\Pedrestrians please beware this bumper WILL hurt if it hits you!!!!"
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I voted 5 and we are winning by a mile :D
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Take it to the extreme- let's all tie a bunch of cushions to the front of our trucks and drive around at 5 mph with someone in front waving a red flag- like in the good old days of motoring!
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i know what my sticker would say #### off tree hugging idiots :evil:
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and displaying warning notices on 4x4s to help inform consumers of the increased risks.
Alternativly they could bring back the Green Cross Code and teach people how to cross a road
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http://cars.msn.co.uk/carnews/4x4soct05/
:roll: :( :roll:
wonder if we will have to start displaying stickers
Just voted
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I have voted PEOPLE CAN DRIVE WHAT THEY WANT as after all we have to pay for them what do the goverment think they are.
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Tim has a sticker done ready for them i think they will like it straight to the point. :wink:
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I want that one! :lol:
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What do you think of large 4x4s/SUV vehicles? They're a menace
(28%)
They're a minor irritation
(6%)
I'd buy one if I could afford to
(13%)
People can drive what they like
(26%)
I have one and I love it!
(27%)
these were the results after i voted.i had to vote twice as i have two classics and it only had a listing for owning one.
if pedestrians didn't walk in front of moving vehicles they wouldn't get hurt.if more people get hurt by 4x4's it only shows that more people walk infront of 4x4's than cars
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I think a warning sticker it a good idea.
It gives the perspective suicidal pedestrian the informed choice of which types of vehicle to step out in front of. :roll:
"Oh hang on, that's a 4x4 with a warning sticker, what's it say....... Oh, it's likely to kill me, better step in front of the Astra behind it then."
Yaaaa right!! :mrgreen:
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Is the tide turning :D
What do you think of large 4x4s/SUV vehicles? They're a menace
(27%)
They're a minor irritation
(6%)
I'd buy one if I could afford to
(13%)
People can drive what they like
(26%)
I have one and I love it!
(28%)
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voted... and sent a snotty e mail to ITV. not a biased or factually incorrect piece of reporting, oh no.... in our press... never :evil: :shock: :lol:
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Wheres the,
I drive one for work purposes.
I need one to get from where I live to civilisation.
More random (Edit) from bored jurno's.
Only ever pops up when there is no major sleazy story or extremely depressing news to report.
<Edited by Paul>
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Alternativly they could bring back the Green Cross Code and teach people how to cross a road
If you remember "Tufty" The Red Squirrel? A bit before "The green cross man"!
Anyway My point is That It's not only 4x4's that are higher? What about Trucks and Busses And People carriers and Cranes! Need i go on? Will we all have to have Warning stickers Or Ban everything bigger than an invalid carrage from the road? And i voted to drive what you like as to show i'm not biased as well. :lol: :lol: :lol:
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It's all (Edit) if you ask me - I don't drive like a loon, and (as has already been said) you can see further from our 'killing machines' ...
Too much 'Political Correctness' again. :x
BTW, I voted for the last option ... :wink:
<Edited by Paul>
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I just voted for #5 :)
The current status is :
Menace 26%
Minor irritation 5%
I'd Buy 13%
People can drive 27%
I have one 28%
Guess they not getting the stats they expected :)
Trev
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Stickers warning of the "danger" of 4x4s?
then I need a sticker sying something like "warning, this 4x4 costs half as much to insure as a 1.4litre nissan micra so if you think I'M the problem you need locking up for your own safety"
Utter b******s, but then what do we expect? when did the facts get in the way of a witchunt?
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Statistics are meaningless here...
15% in crease in 4x4 sales... from what? define 4x4!
4% decrease in 'car sales' - define 'car' - how many sold?
Greater chance of injury if hit by 4x4... Is ther a greater or lesser chance of actually being hit by a 4x4 - driver at the same speed as someone who otherwise would have been driving 'another vehicle' to perform the same job. With a higher driving position they have a better view and are more likely to see earlier and be able to anticipate things happening. - So I would think - same driver & conditions - less chance of hitting same pedestrian at same speed - probably less likely to hit at all - also pedestrian can see 4x4 much more easily & hear them coming better if fitted with AT type tyres :lol:
Similar thing with motorbike crash helmets... In some situations they do lower injury and save lives. In other situations they are a large cause of greater injuries or death - or even of the accident happening in the first place! - But we have no choice - we have to wear them by law!
My wife was complaing about some large woman in a 4x4 coming the opposite way on a very narrow road - window open one hand dangling cigarrete out of window - seemingly oblivious to everyone else tryng to avoid being hit by her vehicle. If she (other woman) wasn't driving a 4x4 it would be another large vehicle and her driving would be no better! - she does reinforce a sad stereotype though :(
Mick
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she does reinforce a sad stereotype though :(
Mick
I see drivers everyday who would be bad whatever car they were in. In my experience 4x4 drivers are among the best and more courteous. Citroen Saxo drivers on the other hand.....
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REgardless of any issue of right or wrong, that is quite possibly the single set of most hideously biassed poll options i've ever seen. How can anyone hope to win on the morale high ground when the oposition play that way.
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loved woody's second sticker,might have to get one made for my sump guard :twisted:
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THE ANTI MOD ARE OUT OF BED AND HAVE STARTED VOTING
hi
here it is
daves guide to winning this vote
click tools
internet options
click the privacy tab
click advanced
tick overide auto cookie handling
click block cookies
and now you can keep voting
i am voting for i would have one if i could afford it
to show im not a biased 4x4 owner just Mr jo public :lol:
come on its get your finger out time
start voting
and keep voting using what is written in my quote you can keep returning to the page and voting
we need a complete whitewash to get a draw (remmber brits boxing in Italy :lol: )
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Wonder what the amount of speeding tickets is for 4x4's compared with other "safe?" vehicles are :?
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It gives you a 'VOTE' at the bottom, so I clicked on 'I have one and love it', but (what a suprise!) They're a menace seems to be winning...
Everyone GET VOTING QUICK, this is not like the other polls eg 'keep the Byway from x to y open' which NEED our votes, but it would be good to get a few more in our favour.
:twisted:
I have just voted and the" i have one and love it is winning with 29% while there a menace has 24%
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I hate all these sad people that want to ban 4x4's they should all be sent to a country where sad miserable people live!!! all us proper 4x4 users get all the crap from this anti 4x4 stuff and then there are all these sad rich gits going around in thier road going 4x4's with no proper reason to have one except to show off to nieghbours then we get all the stick because there are too many 4x4's on the road. if your going to have a 4x4 use it what it was built for-OFF ROADING!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
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Yup
ALL MINE go offroad.
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Oh yeah i forgot to mention anyone who comes up to me and starts complaning about 4x4's i'm going to beat the s*** out of them cos i am just fed up of people trying to ban 4x4's and off roading, well i say we find out these peoples hobbies and try to ban them and see how they react then!!!!!
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if your going to have a 4x4 use it what it was built for-OFF ROADING!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
I can appreciate your view ... but I don't necessarily agree I'm afraid! As has been said many times before, people have the right (at the moment) to buy/drive whatever they want!
I have a young family (3 boys) - so we have a VW Sharan people carrier. One, because it's got the space we need and two, I think it's safer to have an actual seat for everyone rather than 3 across the back seat. I know families that have little Renaults/etc - but you couldn't GIVE me such a small car for my family!
And the thing that gets overlooked by all these anti-4x4 people is that there are lots of "normal" cars that are bigger and worse on fuel than most 4x4s. :roll:
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well i use my 4x4 for offroading and general use.
but i only do about 5000 miles a year. so i use less fuel than your rep does during his 50000 miles a year.
and if pedestrians stayed on the path they wouldn't get run over.
if people couldn't swim less people would drown as they would stay out of the water.
If i have this sticker on my truck and someone gets hit by me. can i claim that it was there fault as they didn't read the warning on the truck before they stepped out in front of me.
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if your going to have a 4x4 use it what it was built for-OFF ROADING!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
YE
how many Fiat pandas
Audi quatros
BMW series saloons
vauxhall caviliers (i think)
do you see offf roading
many manufacturers have built 4x4 versions of a saloon car
these drivers don't get abused the same as land rovers
but they will be taxed the same
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These road going 4x4's like the BMW's are the ones causing all this anti-4x4 madness becuase there is no point to them unless you have a big family of 6 people or more, but just to have these road going 4x4's just to look good is absolutely pointless, and also the ever increasing numjber of them causes these sad people to complain that there are too many but there are people who actually need to use them or use them off road which they were built for, i think they should ban the people who have them for showing off because there is no need. OK maybe you can drive what you want but wouldn't you rather drive a smaller economical car rather than your show off in your BMW.
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One of my 4x4's is the *worst* polluter apparently. Ho hum - are you saying I can't own it? Or just a select few? These "bans" can work both ways - don't mess with peoples freedom of choice, or we are no better than those that oppose us.
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If a person breaks a leg up in the hills, would they prefer to be carted down the hillside in a litter with half a dozen men bouncing them around for 3 hours, or something like my (ex-ambulance now) disco coming up and fetching them down in relatively comfort and warmth :?
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The government can't ban 4x4s. The most they could ever do is change legislation for new cars being built and sold in the UK. All of our vehicles were subject to tight regulations and legislation concerning road safety, trafic safety and polution when they were built and sold. If the government tried to remove these vehicles from the roads they would be admitting that their original legislation was unsound. This then makes them liable for all deaths involving these vehicles. Never going to happen. If they tax them heavily, it will only highten their appeal as a status symbol. If they ban vehicles over certain dimesions then other vehicles such as Jaguars, people carriers etc fall under the same legislation. If they ban engines over a certain size then most performance cars go with them. It's all a bit daft and I'm getting fed up with it. I've never actually met anyone who wants to ban 4x4s in real life anyway.
You can't tell someone that their choice of vehicle is not appropriate because it's too big or uses too much fuel! Nobody needs a 42" plasma screen to watch Emmerdale, a 14" lcd is perfectly adequate. But people who like Emmerdale like to experience it on a 42" Plasma. The same is true for cars. We spend hours in them, so I want to enjoy it.
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I've never actually met anyone who wants to ban 4x4s in real life anyway.
I don't think I have, even the Anti 4x4 ramblers appreciate that 4x4's have their place, some people need them, such as firedoghandler and his emergency recovery team, or farmers etc.
Event the dreaded B*W's are sometimes used by larger families (i.e. as a people carrier) in which case even they have a use (a slim argument for B*W's i know!).
Apart from a few learner vehicles, all motorbikes are capable of the 70mph limit we have in this country, but the majority of purchases of bikes are the fast ones that will do the best part of 200mph and would probably do 70mph in first gear - and they don't get banned. (P.S. I don't want to ban them!).
I don't think any government would be mad enough to even suggest that they would try to ban 4x4's or indeed anything similar as it would be such a vote loser.
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all us proper 4x4 users get all the crap from this anti 4x4 stuff and then there are all these sad rich gits going around in thier road going 4x4's with no proper reason to have one except to show off to nieghbours then we get all the stick because there are too many 4x4's on the road. if your going to have a 4x4 use it what it was built for-OFF ROADING!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Jim - sorry mate - that just isn't the right attitude. people who only run 4x4s on the road could turn round and say 'well at least we don't rip up the countryside' - lets just stick together. Don't let them 'divide and conquer'!
Mick :shock:
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Now
What do you think of large 4x4s/SUV vehicles? They're a menace
(24%)
They're a minor irritation
(5%)
I'd buy one if I could afford to
(13%)
People can drive what they like
(28%)
I have one and I love it!
(30%)
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what about cars that are 4x4 eg Scooby, Sierra Cosy, fiat panda and more they dont get used off road they wont get taxed higher as they are Cars and the Government doesnot see them as 4x4 even though they have the system there it is just the big ones like Jeeps, Landrovers, Suzuki's, Toyotas that will get Taxed higher
i work with some ine who wants them banned yet he owns a 05 reg fiat panda 4x4 his son drives a Scooby (company car) and has a sierra Cosy and i asked him what would happen if he got higher tax on that and he said it would nt happen as it is only a car, so my reply was It is still a 4x4.
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As this is a subject I've been arguing for some time ;-)
The original campaign to "ban" 4x4s fell on its backside quite early on, mostly because when the 'anti' campaign actually found some opposition, all the arguments that were being used were blown out of the water and so had to be modified a little.
Before too long, they shifted their perspective, saying that they didn't want to actually *ban* 4x4s, but wanted to more heavily tax and penalise those who chose them as a "lifestyle" vehicle rather than because of some necessity. (This was done in an attempt to get some of the more vocal 4x4 owners on-side... people like us in fact)
What James says in his last post is spot on, they can't possibly ban the vehicles... *but* they could get away with other restrictions due to the way that the tabloid media has bought into a lot of the nonsense that was being pedalled. (Thankfully a lot of the interest has died down because they realised that a) there was no real story, and b) very few on the street actually gave a stuff)
Jim, I hate to say it, but some of your comments look like they were taken straight off the Campaign Against Urban 4x4's website.... Nobody has the right to dictate what vehicle we can or cannot drive within the legal restrictions we have.
The latest twists have included Greenpeace jumping on the bandwagon with their ridiculous publicity stunts... they are playing to the media, but the media is rapidly losing interest. There was a time when I was getting 3 or 4 calls a day from TV production companies / radio stations wanting interviews & sound bytes... I haven't heard from one in months.
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Its not us it,s the little cars and mopeds fault they squish to easily .
They should make all people buy 4x4,s then their is no problem And ban pedestrians
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..... then there are all these sad rich gits going around in thier road going 4x4's with no proper reason to have one except to show off to nieghbours then we get all the stick because there are too many 4x4's on the road.
Are- but they are there for a reason. Think about it- who keeps us lesser mortals supplied with a constant flow of third hand cars ready for a bit of 'offroad abuse'? All these people who buy shiney new 4x4's of course!
THIRD OWNER THEORY- only the third owner uses 4x4's to offroad regularly. Owner 1- has the cash and buy one just because they (or the company) can. Owner 2- would like to be like Owner 1 but isn't. Owner 3 (onward)- time for fun and to use the car for what it was designed to do!
So- be thankful for those swanky types driving round in a 2005 Ranger Rover Sport- who knows, in 15 years time it could be your plaything!
Actually it's unlikely to be your plaything due to the overcomplex electronic wizardry in it (designed to make it a nightmare to fix and therefore scrap/obsolete in 10 years time)- but you get my drift don't you?
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I have one and i love it up to 30% this morning. thats better.
Wanted to vote People can drive what they want but can only vote for one at a time so will vote again in a mo.
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/me mutters something about Owner syndrome ....
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MERC 500 series - BIGGER FOOTPRINT
BMW 7series - BIGGER FOOTPRINT
Volvo 70 estate - BIGGER FOOTPRINT
VW Phaeton - BIGGER FOOTPRINT
VW sharan/ Ford Galaxy - SAME AS SIZE WISE
need I go on......
New stickers req me thinks:
'my 4x4 uses less room than your estate'
'my 4x4 uses less fuel than your big ....... (BMW / VOLVO / ETC ETC
Ah, sod it, I give in, they win........................
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il remove a propshaft :lol:
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Range Rover ..... er .... sorry we lost on that one ;-)
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Its not us it,s the little cars and mopeds fault they squish to easily .
They should make all people buy 4x4,s then their is no problem And ban pedestrians
A very tragic way indeed to prove the Anti's wrong but sadly 4x4's don't always come out better in a collsion:
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/southern_counties/4346746.stm
I don't know any more detail (i.e. which model of Land Rover) but it just goes to show that some the Anti's arguments are wrong.
Very sad either way.
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you guys have lost the plot !
Im Buying a NEW Navara to take on Off road Missions !! it WILL get Scratched, it will get dented, but im in it for the off road Fun !!!!!
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you guys have lost the plot !
:?: In what way :?:
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you guys have lost the plot !
:?: In what way :?:
Saying that people who BUY NEW 4x4s are not going to go off raoding and have some fun !
Im looking to spend alot of hard earnd dosh on a nice leather clad Navara Just to go Off roading and push it too the limit.
:)
:lol: :lol:
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As if anybody would spend 30k, on a brand new motor. Then spend thousands more getting it the way you want it. Then be daft enough to give it hell, or Pushing it to the Limit on an Off Road Site. Pure Stupidity No One Would Do that. :oops: :twisted: :oops: :twisted: :roll:
Who Me?? Never.
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Um....only 30k?
<grin>
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I knew you'd have to comment to that.
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Well....I couldn't very well not :)
You have to have all the comforts :) Even Piglet has full leather, aircon (when it works), heated seats and eletric everything ..... not as luxurious as Owl tho :)
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Ahh well you see I trump you cos I spent 30k on a Defender!!!, Only Half Leather, Air Con, Electric Front Windows, and Heated Seats.
Obviously I'm just roughing it for a while.
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<giggle>
One day I'll get some pics of Owl offroad I can use on the net :) The only ones I have are not owned by me, so I can't use them here.
So yes - there are people out there who are willing to use expensive cars offroad :)
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Itoo voted...still on tops guys!!! :D
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sorry but the Navara is a el cheapo buy, at a steal of 24K and then VAT back and then 40% TAX back, its a cheap runabout ;)
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They don't take kindly to :
"Oh and can you service the runabout?" <pointing at the RR>
At the time of course you have to be wearing scruffs ... ;-)
Having long hair and a taste for metal helps ;-)
I love it. The amount of coffee sprayed is worth it!
Works especially well if you have an anti main dealer t-shirt on, and the wife in the <not runabout> waving at you ;-)
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The Defender has just come back from a Weekend Offroading, and I killed the Starter Motor. They have apparently refused to work on it, unitl the valeter cleaned it!!! Mind you it was caked. Despite been a LR dealer I don't think they're quite used to people who don't consider water deep until it starts coming over the doors :D
The Mud line was well knee high through out the car. They'd apparently don't see the funny side. Still they're fixing it under warranty.