Mud-club
Vehicle & Technical => Discovery => Topic started by: Horness on August 22, 2006, 09:20:03
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The quest continues to get as many mods done to my Disco this year as possible (long story) and now we're on to suspension.
I don't need/want a big lift, but because of the extra weight of things like HD bumpers, sliders and other toys, the suspension needs looking at before I think about a winch in the future.
My local LR garage has quoted me for DeCarbon +2" Gas shocks, and (I think) Bearmach springs (+1" at the front, +1.25" at the rear).
Their prices for things like Old Man Emu shocks seem really expensive, but when I check Paddock Spares (http://www.paddockspares.com/scp/SHOP_BY_BRAND/Old_Man_Emu_Dampers.html) for example, OME Shocks actually fit in my budget (probably not with OME springs as well though).
My question (finally) is - can I use OME shocks with (for example) Bearmach springs? If so - where is the best place to buy them from?
Help and advice always appreciated.
Horness
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what are you trying to achieve? the problem is that if you do anything before you fit your winch you will have to change again afterwards. Its never straightforward.
You sound like you are going fairly extreme so why no lift?? Bigger tyres give you the best increase in performance for the least cost....and you cant fit big tyres without a lift of some kind. ps im not a huge bearmach fan ...my disco looked drunk with them on.
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Mine has Britpart (yellow) +2" yellow springs fitted by the previous owner along with ProComp shocks. I think the combination is ood and works very well although I am not convinced by the quality of the ProComp shocks, I dont understand how they can be so popular yet they are so unreliable?? Or maybe beause they are so popular you hear of more problems.
I have heard that the Bearmach springs are better and will consider them as replacements when mine are due replacement.
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Dont want to fuel the Procomp or not debate, but from my personal experience I can thoroughly recommend them. They have been strong and reliable, yet cheap and if your not doing what I am with them have a lifetime no quibble guarantee.
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Bulli
Essentially I am looking to achieve a good all-rounder which will continue to get used for my shooting/hunting/deer stalking, and also be adequate to do more of the events/courses next year when I get a family car and the Disco becomes 100% "Toy".
I use the Disco to travel around the country, so road manners need to remain, or be improved. I don't fancy driving up to Fort William in what feels like a plate of jelly. :wink:
I've already fitted a HD Rear Bumper, Sliders, and I'm about to order a D44 winch bumper, then to follow will be a winch and fuel tank guard. With the possibility of a roof rack in the future.
For what it's used for off-road, really big tyres are not needed, and to be honest I want to keep the "look" as normal as possible.
I've got this year only to do all this in, as when the new car arrives SWMBO will see to it that no funds are available for the Disco. :roll:
I'd sooner to it right now while I have the chance, and I've always wanted OME shocks (and springs!) since before I owed a Disco and was talking to the guys on Discoweb (http://www.discoweb.org/).
Thanks Guys - Hope that helps.
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With the weight you already have and the increased weight of the winch bumper and tank guard i would think oMe would be ideal. I have heard they are very stiff if you dont have weight on board. They are cetainly popular.
If you are choosing between with bit to do i would go for the shocks rather than the springs. They shocks or spring should work perfectly well with other manufacturers parts, provided you get the correct rate spring.
Shock damping is pretty much a fixed thing with each manufacturer presetting the rate of the shock.
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I'm planning on ordering them from Paddocks (http://www.paddockspares.com/scp/SHOP_BY_BRAND/Old_Man_Emu_Dampers.html)
OME HD Front - Part No. DA3061
OME HD Rear - Part No. DA3063
OME Steering Damper - Part No. DA3066
Then getting my local garage to fit them with the Bearmach springs. At least this way if I do want the lift bigger in the future, all I need to change is the springs.
Will I need to change bump stops if I change the steering damper? I'm thinking of getting one of Wizard's Steering Damper Relocation Kits (http://www.wizardbilt.com/index.htm) too, just to make sure things are tucked up out of the way.
Cheers
Horness
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No disrespect here - why don't you save the money and fit this stuff yourself? then you can afford more toys? Fitting suspension is a tedious job rather than difficult.
Mike
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You can fit the bits easily enough as mike says. It can be a little time consuming the first time but i can do rears in half an hour....How much have they quoted you?
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Yeah, it's quite a satisfying one to do yourself actually. I'd strongly recommend spring compressors, but they're only about 20 quid, just make sure you get decent ones which aren't going to bend.
Personally I'd have said that expensive shocks are going to make more of a difference than expensive springs. So if you can go for OME shocks with a cheaper brand of spring, then you'll still have a good setup.
I bought my OME bits from Devon 4x4 (http://www.devon4x4.co.uk), who will happily help you out with matching the right shocks to the right springs.
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I guess it depends on your set up but certainly rears don't seem to need compressors if you can use a high lift. Whip the wheel off with a trolley jack under the axle lift the rear with a high lift and let the axle droop and the spring will just come out all being equal.
Fronts much the same but I think you'll have the turrets off in any case to change the shocks so that's OK too.
I find compressors terrifying - all that stored energy just waiting to let go. I did find I had to use them on the RR with +2" springs but on the 90 I haven't needed them yet. I got Draper ones at modest cost and they seem fine.
It is very satisfying to do these jobs and it saves money!
Mike
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I am looking at a similar change with springs - not sure about doing this myself - any pics to demonstrate
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I am looking at a similar change with springs - not sure about doing this myself - any pics to demonstrate
nope but you can either give the lads in sorc to give you a hand or if ive got a free weekend you could come over & id get you sorted out
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I don't think that pictures would be much help in this case. It's pretty much follow your nose and just being careful. Some brute strength is required at times but not much.
I can recall one of the first jobs I did on my series was replacing the shocks at the rear and it was fine although I learnt about sieed nuts pretty fast. Pretty soon after that I changed the springs and shocks all round which was one hell of a job in terms of effort but not sophistication.
The point is that they are fairly straightforward jobs where it's hard to get into a total mess! It's not like taking the engine to bits where you really can reach the point where the truck won't run!
Indeed Horness you must live pretty close to me, I'm near Great Witley, so if you did get into a mess I could pop over one evening. Blimey I never thought a duffer like me would offer to pop over and help someone!
Go for it - not many tools needed. You'll need a socket set and ring spanners (possibly open end as well) and I found a crowbar handy to lever the sping into place. Trolley jack and ideally a high lift or second jack of some sort. The Disco jack is fine under the axle. I think that's all you need.
Mike
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I'd love to be able to have the time and resources to do this myself as I know I'd feel a lot more satisfaction in the work done, but with limited tools, basic knowledge, and no backup plan, I have no other way of getting to work if it all goes belly up.
This, and the fact that I am about as mechanically minded as a bowl of salad. Getting the local garage to do it at about £120 (£30 per corner) saves me the hassle and stress, and if it does go all wrong, I carry on driving around in the courtesy car until they sort it.
Shocks are going to be OME.
Springs will probably be Bearmach for now.
Timescale - very soon. :wink:
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Sounds like sense to me - all my LR have always been second vehicles so they can be laid up with no problem.
Mike
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Today's the day then... ordering my stuff.
Had a look around the Internet - Paddocks seem cheapest for OME dampers. Seeing as I cannot make the Malvern show (Working. Again) can anyone recommend the best place (i.e. cheapest) to order 4 dampers and possibly a steering damper from?
Cheers guys
Horness
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Hi I've just received procomp shocks to replace my standard ones. They were supplied with some washers and bushes but I'm confused (there's a surprise...)
The front shocks have two sets of 2 curved washers and 2 bushes and a nut.
The shocks that are on have 4 washers at each end of the shock, two are curved and two are kinda flat with a ridge.
The rears have 2 curved and 2 bushes for one end. The other end just has two washers.
My question is, do I need the extra washers and should I just reuse the same ones for the front. Also is it important which way round the rubber bushes go as they aren't identical.
Hope this makes sense and sorry for being so thick!
Thanks,
Ian.
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Kit ordered and vehicle booked in for Friday 1st September.
Springs will be yellow Britpart +2". Shocks Old Man Emu HD Front (DA3061), HD Rear (DA3063).
Will take some piccies when done.
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(http://www.horness.com/discovery/thums/ome_2inch_1_thum.jpg) (http://www.horness.com/discovery/images/ome_2inch_1.jpg)
Click to enlarge. Couple of more photo's here (http://www.horness.com/discovery/photos.htm).
All fitted. +2" Britpart yellow springs fitted with Old Man Emu Nitro Gas shocks all round. Tyres are 235/70/16 BF Goodrich A/T's.
No other changes (yet :twisted: ) to brake lines as there was loads of slack (4+ inches).
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That truck looks well sorted now mate, those tyres look just right too :wink:
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did u fit dislocation cones?
britpart springs can be quite needy of these
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did u fit dislocation cones?
britpart springs can be quite needy of these
Thanks for the comments guys.
David - no, I did not fit dislocation cones. Didn't really think I'd need them. I can always add them later though - why do Britpart springs need them more than others?
Cheers
Horness
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britpart springs can be quite stiff, so they are less likley to 'take up the slack' when the axle is at full travel - this can leave the spring a little loose in the mount
seen a few motors with these springs suffer from this.
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There's a good chance your springs will dislocate under full articulation. If you don't fit dis. cones and use jubilee clips to hold them in place then buy some HD spring retainers from paddocks (cheap too) to stop your springs pulling up from the axle. Seen it done and it's worse than a spring not relocating properly.
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Cones or retainers then?
Would I be okay fitting these from Devon 4x4 (http://www.devon4x4.com/shop.php?mode=productview&product=42&sitelang=&cat=7&subcat=6) ?
Also - do I need front and rears?
Advice, opinions and more amazingly fast ways of emptying my wallet appreciated. :wink:
Horness
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Those relocation cones from devon should work very nicely, but unless you reposition your front dampers outside the spring they will only fit the rear.
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The Devon ones are like the paddock ones and go to a point at the bottom, these work slightly better than cone type ones as they allow a wobbly spring a little more guidance when relocating. I've seen a spring sit squarely onto the bottom of a cone type dislocation cone and not relocate at all.
As to fronts and rears, depends on how extreme you're going to go but for most applications the front shock will guide the spring back in anyway, should it dare to pop out.
The other question is, do you have front and rear anti roll bars? Removing or leaving these in place will effect your need for more or less parts ;-)
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Hi Horness,
The D44 cones will fit - but you need to either modify them slightly by making the bolt hole a slot, or make a small hole in the back of the wheel arch - otherwise the bolt that holds the two parts of the cones together can't fit under the bodywork.
I will try and get some pics for you to show you what I'm so badly trying to explain! :)
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Thanks Cal - is this still the case even though they specify series 1 Disco in the options?
Will I need anything else with these fitted? Will I still need HD spring retainers from paddocks ?
Cheers
Horness
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Bigger tyres give you the best increase in performance for the least cost.
Bulli,
Having pm'd Horness for his tyre size i found this thread :oops:
Reading what you posted had me thinking, what size tyre were you talking about please as the time is approaching for me to buy new tyres for my disco.
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Hi Horness,
No pics yet I'm afraid, but yes I specified the Disco ones when ordering and have spoken to another couple of people who had to do the same to fit them to their D1s - it's not tricky - can be done with a round file just as easily as with any gadgetry. I got HD spring retainers from Paddocks whilst I was at it and some HD shock turrets. I saw that Devon 4x4 do the HD retainers, but only saw ones for the rear listed so got front and rear from Paddocks whilst I had an order with them anyway.
If you're not going for a really extreme set up I would have thought it unlikely that you would be able to get the springs to drop all the way to the bottom of the relocation cones (though I could be wrong!) so you should be OK getting all the stuff you need from Paddocks to save you another batch of postage...
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Cheers Cal.
The setup is not for "extreme" use, but equally I don't want to end up in trouble either. I'll get the cones ordered from Devon (and a couple of other bits) and see how I fare. :wink:
Horness
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Is ther any more body roll noticable, or does it tighten things up on the road ?
Thinking about a 2" lift myself, cos i grounded one of the lpg tanks out today. Is it nessesary to use the cranked rear arms ?
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Is ther any more body roll noticable, or does it tighten things up on the road ?
Thinking about a 2" lift myself, cos i grounded one of the lpg tanks out today. Is it nessesary to use the cranked rear arms ?
I've just fitted +2" HD springs and Old Man Emu shocks. The ride is a lot more "controlled", with less body roll. This is due more to the harder setup though, rather than the lift.
Brake line wise there was some 4+ inches of slack, so they did not need extending (may change out anyway in the future), the only thing I missed off was the dislocation cones (which I'm ordering this week!).
If it need them, and funds allow, then I may fit cranked rear arms - but next time it goes in for a service, we'll have a good look all over just to be sure.
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I use my ES for shooting from, carcase recovery when stalking, rough shooting, clay shooting and green lanes etc, I went for a 2" lift with bearmach springs and procomp shocks, I'm very happy with a stable ride now (much better than the 12 year old original springs!). Add 235/85 tyres and your going to sit nice and high 8)
Looks very nice with the tube bumper and gives such an improvement to attack angle, the keeper at the estate I stalk keeps asking me to go out and stalk/retrieve problem areas with him, a nice problem to have :lol:
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I use my ES for shooting from, carcase recovery when stalking, rough shooting, clay shooting and green lanes etc, I went for a 2" lift with bearmach springs and procomp shocks, I'm very happy with a stable ride now (much better than the 12 year old original springs!). Add 235/85 tyres and your going to sit nice and high 8)
Looks very nice with the tube bumper and gives such an improvement to attack angle, the keeper at the estate I stalk keeps asking me to go out and stalk/retrieve problem areas with him, a nice problem to have :lol:
Nice one mate - sounds like you use your Disco the same way I do. :wink: You're welcome over at the Keep Britain Shooting Forums (http://forums.keepbritainshooting.org.uk) any time. I'm trying to make it the shooting equivalent of Mud-Club. :wink: It's new, so watch out for wet paint.
I'm just waiting for my BFG 235/70's to wear down a bit, then it's on with some 85's.
Should get my winch bumper this week. Went for the Scorpion one mainly because I wanted to keep the look the same, and wanted something with recovery and jacking points up front. Also had an offer I could not refuse, which means I ended up paying very little for it. :twisted:
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If you haven't already ordered your rear cones I have a pair of axle mounted ones I'm selling there's a pic in the for sale section
Pm me if interested :wink:
Cheers
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No you don't need cranked rear armsa but with a lift the cghasssi mounting busk is already distroted at rest so when the axles droop shtat bush starts to resist downwards travel, much worse when you use polybushes.
Having seen Sooty bend a rear arms at Whaddon last year I decided to get strenghtened arms and they might as well be cranked.
BTW I still run with ARB fitted but I'm working on a solution..........