Mud-club
Chat & Social => The Bar - General Chat => Topic started by: blackbob on December 26, 2007, 09:04:32
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• A 1908 Ford Model T had higher fuel efficiency than a 2007 Toyota Prius, though it only had a top speed of 45 MPH.
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And a lot more enviormentally friendly to manufacture.
http://clubs.ccsu.edu/recorder/editorial/print_item.asp?NewsID=188
Old hat I know but when will the tree huggers wake up and smell the coffee?
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Oh god, here we go.......From what I can see, the T ford did sub 20 to the gallon,wioth its flat head side valve engine(one of the least efficient internal combustion designs), made no power, carried little load, went slow, and chucked hydrocarbons out by the gazillion.
Oh yea, it didnt have abs, aircon,cd,stereo, or comfortable seats or suspension.
Then, it didnt have full doors so no need for most of those eh.
It was however pretty recyclable, which is a good point, but then you wouldnt expect one to do 200,000 miles wouild you........
Oh yeah, cant see it being set to work on unleaded, so plenty of carcinogens as well............
If you are gonna try to take the mickey out of something, start the job from an educated start point......
Not being rude, we wouldnt be where we are today without the model T ford, BUT, we wont get to where we are in 80 years time without things like the Prius.
If you want other Prius banter, join in. I work for Toyota, I love the car, and the Toyota/Lexus hybrid technology IS world leading. Research it, learn how its Atkins cycle engine/planetary gerabox/hybrid battery/power convertor all works, and you may be surpsised.
Happy Holidays.
Rolla :wink: :wink:
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I agree Rolla, but...................................................
its not the pritteist of cars :lol:
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I agree Rolla, but...................................................
its not the pritteist of cars :lol:
Neither is the model T :? As for the Prius I think we should look deeper than the skin.... this car is leading the way to where we have to go, given time we are most likely all going to be driving cars with similar technology.
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The problem i have with the prius is that it does like 60mpg, which isnt outstanding in all honesty, i had a pug 205 TD that would do 55mpg all day long. but its better than most cars of the same sort of size etc. BUT i cant see all the batteries being very environmentally friendly to despose of.
Thesy say that 80% of a modern cars carbon footprint is from its manufacture, so i would assume that the prius's complex systems cause much more carbon emissions during production and this probably far outweighs the savings on exhaust emmissions.
Also, how long d'ya rekkon a prius will last? It is certainly not infinitly rebuildable like a land rover. once its gubbins have worn out its in the bin. might be as little as 5 years or less. (not to mention when the latest green car comes out and the prius goes out of fashion)
so what about completely electric cars??? well where does most of that leccy come from? power stations fueled by fossil fuels. so you are just passing the buck. Unless you charge it up from a solar panel then its far from carbon neutral. and the same problems aply with most of it ending up in land fill in 3 years time.
Hydrogen cars? well at the moment we still have to get hydrogen from water using masive amounts of electricity, until a further breakthrough there these are no good either.
seen as we are a 4x4 forum what about them? well, not sure if the defender is still assembled by men with spanners, but that is a bonus. Anything LPG is to my knowlege carbon neutral as far as im aware, becasue excess LPG is just burned off into the atmosphere anyway so if you put some in your car then it makes no difference to the over all pollution.
So if you can find a car thats about to be scrapped, and runs on LPG you are on to a winner. you are helping saving the environment by saving that car from land fill. keeping it going prevents a new car having to be built to replace it.
The government seems to encourage us all to scrap our 'old vehicles that have poor emissions' and buy a brand new car that is 5mpg more economical. very misguided.
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I like the new VW Polo Blue Motion...
http://www.volkswagen.co.uk/new_cars/forthcoming/polo_bluemotion
To be fair I am not a fan of the Prius, It looks as ugly as sin and they seem to be owned as a lame status symbol, by people who think they are saving the planet, when in reality the Polo is probably better. Plus the people I know who own them also have a garage full of Jags. :roll:
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BUT i cant see all the batteries being very environmentally friendly to despose of.
ALL batteries can be disposed of regardless of their construction
Also, how long d'ya rekkon a prius will last? It is certainly not infinitly rebuildable like a land rover. once its gubbins have worn out its in the bin. might be as little as 5 years or less. (not to mention when the latest green car comes out and the prius goes out of fashion)
Take a look at your local Toyota dealer and then tell me that the Prius lasts less than 5 years
so what about completely electric cars??? well where does most of that leccy come from? power stations fueled by fossil fuels. so you are just passing the buck. Unless you charge it up from a solar panel then its far from carbon neutral. and the same problems aply with most of it ending up in land fill in 3 years time.
We have to go nuclear for our future power needs, sadly we have no option for mass power production
Anything LPG is to my knowlege carbon neutral as far as im aware, becasue excess LPG is just burned off into the atmosphere anyway so if you put some in your car then it makes no difference to the over all pollution.
So if you can find a car thats about to be scrapped, and runs on LPG you are on to a winner. you are helping saving the environment by saving that car from land fill. keeping it going prevents a new car having to be built to replace it.
Are you really suggesting the LPG is carbon neutral :shock: Good grief man it is a petroleum gas and far from carbon neutral :?
I like the new VW Polo Blue Motion...
http://www.volkswagen.co.uk/new_cars/forthcoming/polo_bluemotion
To be fair I am not a fan of the Prius, It looks as ugly as sin and they seem to be owned as a lame status symbol, by people who think they are saving the planet, when in reality the Polo is probably better. Plus the people I know who own them also have a garage full of Jags. :roll:
Yes the Polo is a good car and how can you say that the Prius is "ugly as sin". With respect you drive a Terrano so you should not say such a thing :wink: :roll:
Before you all jump on me.... NO I do not own a Prius :D
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the reality with the Prius is its driven by smug pratts who are more concerned with their image than anything else.
The model T did 25 to the gallon so not quite sure where you get your facts from. There is an article which points out it is more efficent than the ford explorer. The explorer must weigh 2.5 tonnes and is full 4wd and can carry 5 passengers and all their gear in comfort
if you believe it does 60 then you are being daft! they dont do more than 50, which makes it about the same level of economy as my diesel focus...oh and my focus is much better to drive and doesnt have a great big battery that damages the environment.
I do think this technology has something to offer and will make big improvements later its still not better than some of the current conventional motors.
Ian i know you love em but they are uglier than shreks butt!
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the reality with the Prius is its driven by smug pratts who are more concerned with their image than anything else.
You make an extremely wide sweeping and somewhat offensive statement there.... I say such as you obviously do not know every Prius owner or their reasons for buying such a car :roll:
I suggest that you get your brain cell into gear before typing such trash :x
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Yes the Polo is a good car and how can you say that the Prius is "ugly as sin". With respect you drive a Terrano so you should not say such a thing :wink: :roll:
Before you all jump on me.... NO I do not own a Prius :D
LOL :(biggrin): to be fair you right, the old nissan is not the best looking car in the world, however I like it better than the Prius. The Prius reminds me of the old Citroens and I couldn't stand them.
Now I'm not saying its a bad car, never have, just its not my cup of tea and there are plenty of other green cars around that are cheaper, and in reality do more MPG with the added bonus of £0 tax.
Now you may think I'm a polluting monster, but I'm not I am all for saving the planet which is why I’m going to build a house that is totally carbon neutral from Power supply to heating system and water supply.
I still think the only reason the Prius did so well was it became a status symbol for some people who wanted to be seen doing the right thing, when in reality they didn't give a hoot. Also its a Toyota helped. :wink:
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Boggert.... you make a good point with the Citroen reference. I guess it can be likened to the older models and maybe even the DS which has become a classic :)
As for your house build project.... I do wish you well with it :D
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the reality with the Prius is its driven by smug pratts who are more concerned with their image than anything else.
You make an extremely wide sweeping and somewhat offensive statement there.... I say such as you obviously do not know every Prius owner or their reasons for buying such a car :roll:
I suggest that you get your brain cell into gear before typing such trash :x
its called an OPINION. as for you, well try getting one. Ifv they bought it for the increased fuel economy then they are even dafter....as to recover the increased initial outlay(assuing you believe the disproved 60mpg figure) would take over 3 years when compared to a modern like sized diesel. Then they will trade it for another new one using even more of the worlds resources and creating even more pollution. Unlike my 16 year old Discovery.....
I dont really want to get inito a slanging match but maybe i just might.
All batteries can be disposed of...err how?? sorry do the magical pixies come rounds and sprinkle sunshire on the noxious highly poisonous chemicals...err i dont think so.
Nuclear power is not the only solution and has many draw backs.
Ever heard of hydrogen fuel cells?? All buses in Iceland run on Hydrogen and only produce water as a biproduct. This is ultimately the way forward.
Brain cell engaged . :roll:
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I’m going to build a house that is totally carbon neutral from Power supply to heating system and water supply.
I suspect that doesn't exist, there will undoubtedly be some part of the process, or element of the construction that will be far from TOTALLY CN. Even if we found it then the minute you moved in - game over :)
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was hoping for more useless facts not a prius debate
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was hoping for more useless facts not a prius debate
:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:
Did you know penguins have mini desalination units in their heads to excrete salt from the water they drink :D
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Useless fact number 774 - The Toyota Prius is not very bullet proof, as demonstrated by Top Gear :)
..and another useless fact : According to findings women are evolving much faster than men, so much so they reckon in a few generations they will be able to conceive without males. Worrying!!!
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I know of acouple of people with priuses - and they do nowhere near the 50-60mpg as claimed.
The thing is nothing is for nothing - to use an engine to generate electricity to drive a motor could be wasteful, why bother , it must be far simpler to just connect the drive wheels to the engine direct rather than via a electric motor and batteries.
I see it all as a gimmick, and some people get drawn into the hype of it.
rather than buy a prius , buy a diesel - the eco ones will do 60mpg + with no strings attached.
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considering the load capacity and weight of the thing why not just buy a bicycle? Or, shudder, a Smart Car.
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I’m going to build a house that is totally carbon neutral from Power supply to heating system and water supply.
I suspect that doesn't exist, there will undoubtedly be some part of the process, or element of the construction that will be far from TOTALLY CN. Even if we found it then the minute you moved in - game over :)
Yep, ok Guys you know what I'm trying to say... If it helps as CN as you can get..
We are building a log cabin, we have own water suppy, electricity us by wind and solar when we can. heating by a Corn powered boiler, and yes we grow the corn. :lol:
So I guess its as good as you can get at the moment. :roll: :roll:
Anyone has any better ideas, post then here... :roll:
So back to the Puris... buy a VW Polo Blue Motion does 74 MPG. :lol:
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I’m going to build a house that is totally carbon neutral from Power supply to heating system and water supply.
I suspect that doesn't exist, there will undoubtedly be some part of the process, or element of the construction that will be far from TOTALLY CN. Even if we found it then the minute you moved in - game over :)
Yep, ok Guys you know what I'm trying to say... If it helps as CN as you can get..
We are building a log cabin, we have own water suppy, electricity us by wind and solar when we can. heating by a Corn powered boiler, and yes we grow the corn. :lol:
So I guess its as good as you can get at the moment. :roll: :roll:
Anyone has any better ideas, post then here... :roll:
So back to the Puris... buy a VW Polo Blue Motion does 74 MPG. :lol:
nice one Boggert. Sounds like a great way to go, with as little impact as possible.
The best thing we could do is to move to more efficient servers, Pc's, lights and televisions. Thats would make a hell of a difference to the environment. The blue motion will do much less harm to the environment as well as returning better fiel economy....so thats a win win. oh and its 12k rather than 17........
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I read that the batteries for them daft cars were partly made in Canada, shipped over to wales, worked on a bit there, sent back to Canada for more work, then back to wales, then on to japan. (it was something like that and i cant be arsed to look again!)
Thing is they worked out that the car would have to be doing mega miles a year or kept for teens of years to balance out the damage done by all the shipping.
Cars should have (infact everything!) a overall co2 rating ie how much was made to build the car aswell as how much it puts out per km.
Gav.
P.S i drive a 3.9 v8 and it rocks :twisted: :twisted:
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buy the box set of The Good Life , they were doing the green thing years ago , and it was deemed entertainment :roll:
Just a reminder http://www.bbc.co.uk/comedy/goodlife/
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A reminder of the link that "Sooty" posted
http://clubs.ccsu.edu/recorder/editorial/print_item.asp?NewsID=188
read it, then tell me that battery power is the way to go!! Read it, then tell me that the Prius in environmentally friendly!!!!
here's a quote "the Prius is partly driven by a battery which contains nickel. The nickel is mined and smelted at a plant in Sudbury, Ontario. This plant has caused so much environmental damage to the surrounding environment that NASA has used the ‘dead zone’ around the plant to test moon rovers. The area around the plant is devoid of any life for miles."
I've seen this place, its dead!!! no trees, grass, animals!! NOTHING!
I'm afraid the the Toyota PIUS is a heap and anyone that buys them do so because they get sucked into the "it runs on batteries so its carbon neutral" rubbish
Take the life cycle of this car, and compare it to most other cars on the market and its SHOCKING!!!! it should never have been built!
As someone has said already, the carbon miles the batteries do before finding their way into the vehicles is horrendous, then there is the manufactureing of the cars, then the actual lifespan of the vehicle, THEN THERE IS THE RECYCLEING OF THE BATTERIES THAT HAVE KILLED A PART OF THE PLANET ALREADY, THAT NEED TO BE SENT BACK TO THIS FACTORY TO BE RECYCLED.
How can that possibly be better than something like a discovery, that will live for a lot more then 16 years, and when it does die, it gets recycled by enthusiasts to keep others on the road!!
Sorry about the rant, but this "green" balls really gets to me. I'm all for reducing the carbon I produce, but I refuse to step back to the dark ages to do it!! and I really do not see WHY we must be taxed more, for what is in the main a natural phenomenon!!
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What gets me is the fact that the powers that be seem to be pushing "Recycle" over "Reuse" despite the fact that recycling uses more energy and resources. One example: Soft drink bottles. In Germany these are heavier-duty than ours as they're returned, sterilised, and refilled rather than recycled.
Then again, I guess pushing the concept of Reuse would do horrible damage to the economy, as people would stop buying new stuff...
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its called an OPINION. as for you, well try getting one. Ifv they bought it for the increased fuel economy then they are even dafter....as to recover the increased initial outlay(assuing you believe the disproved 60mpg figure) would take over 3 years when compared to a modern like sized diesel. Then they will trade it for another new one using even more of the worlds resources and creating even more pollution. Unlike my 16 year old Discovery.....
I dont really want to get inito a slanging match but maybe i just might.
All batteries can be disposed of...err how?? sorry do the magical pixies come rounds and sprinkle sunshire on the noxious highly poisonous chemicals...err i dont think so.
Nuclear power is not the only solution and has many draw backs.
Ever heard of hydrogen fuel cells?? All buses in Iceland run on Hydrogen and only produce water as a biproduct. This is ultimately the way forward.
Brain cell engaged . :roll:
Yes you are indeed entitled to an opinion but to express it you should do so from a position of knowledge. I suggest you should not refer to all Prius owners as "pratts" unless you knew they are just that :?
Maybe a lot of Prius owners intend to keep their cars for 3+ years, after all you have an old car :)
All batteries can indeed be disposed of and that DOES include all the chemicals.... try doing a Google search if you are unsure :roll:
I accept that nuclear is not the only solution but is the only form of mass production of electricity for the forseeable future until the USS Enterprise brings their power source down to earth :wink:
I have indeed heard of hydrogen cells and in fact worked on a recent BP project for hydogen as a fuel for public transport.... sadly at this time hydrogen is not a viable alternative :cry:
I am pleased you got your cell engaged as I wondered if the clutch might slip :roll: :wink:
I've got my steel helmet and flak jacket on now :twisted: :lol:
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What gets me is the fact that the powers that be seem to be pushing "Recycle" over "Reuse" despite the fact that recycling uses more energy and resources. One example: Soft drink bottles. In Germany these are heavier-duty than ours as they're returned, sterilised, and refilled rather than recycled.
Then again, I guess pushing the concept of Reuse would do horrible damage to the economy, as people would stop buying new stuff...
It is staggering to think that we do not reuse much more.... we lost this method way back when plastics became fashionable. Many of us, I am sure, can recall taking drinks bottles back to the local off-license in order to get the megre refunds available :D
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Sounds like a green handbag fight to me :lol: :lol: :lol:
As for me, I'll just keep running round in my 22 year old Range Rover powered by a re-used Diahatsu engine fed by old chip-shop oil which otherwise would be poured down the drain. When it needs a part I can re-use other old Rangie bits for most stuff apart from brakes etc.
Does this make me greener-than-thou?
And I think the Pious is ugly as well ...
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Sounds like a green handbag fight to me :lol: :lol: :lol:
As for me, I'll just keep running round in my 22 year old Range Rover powered by a re-used Diahatsu engine fed by old chip-shop oil which otherwise would be poured down the drain. When it needs a part I can re-use other old Rangie bits for most stuff apart from brakes etc.
Does this make me greener-than-thou?
And I think the Pious is ugly as well ...
Maybe it does make you greener but chip shop oil is, thankfully, rarely thrown down any drains :roll:
As for the P(r)i(o)us being ugly.... I guess the world can easily be divided on that one, but I can only finish by saying that old Range Rovers, especially very old ones, are ugly as sin :twisted: :wink:
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you'll never see a Pious in the Louvre :)
Why are "green" cars so ugly, it's certainly not for aerodynamics.
We use a milk man, we re-use that way. I'm stunned that other glass bottles are smashed in the bottle banks :(
This isn't a thread about being green though, it's about useless facts :)
Here's one ; Every day, over five billion gallons of water are flushed down toilets in the United States.
Here's a few others :
Most toilets flush in E flat.
The appliance that uses the most use of water in the home is the toilet.
Three years of a person's life is spent on the toilet.
Women take three times longer than men when using the toilet.
Barbie's parents names are George and Margaret.
Every human spent about half an hour as a single cell.
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Every human spent about half an hour as a single cell.
I know of a few that havent evolved any further.
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you'll never see a Pious in the Louvre :)
Nor will we see any 4x4 cars either :D
Every human spent about half an hour as a single cell.
Some spend a lifetime that way :roll:
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Nor will we see any 4x4 cars either Very Happy
You are in fact WRONG. There's one
http://www.austin-rover.co.uk/index.htm?rroverf.htm
It seemed that everyone did indeed love the Range Rover - even the French - who exhibited one in the Louvre art gallery during 1970 because of it being an, "outstanding piece of modern sculpture". Autocar magazine loved it as well, and in their November 1970 Autotest, they concluded that, "We have been tremendously impressed by the Range Rover, and feel it is even more deserving of resounding success than the Land-Rover."
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The single cell fact was a useless fact, not meant to be a springboard for people to insult or belittle others :(
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I stand corrected with the Louvre issue.... but I love the comment.... "outstanding piece of modern sculpture".... jeez what a comical statement :D
The single cell fact was a useless fact, not meant to be a springboard for people to insult or belittle others :(
So what was your use of the word "pious" meant to be.... don't bother to answer as I already know :?
As there are a couple of you that seem to dislike the Prius concept so much can you tell me that you hate this car with the same passion
(http://i16.photobucket.com/albums/b2/p15pathfinder/Toyota_FT-HS-concept3.jpg)
Although still a concept car it might just make it into production. It has a 3.5 litre engine with the same hybrid technology that is in the Prius.... oh yes it is a crap pious car too but with a total of 400bhp!
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Pious due to the media hype, the "stars" that buy them and ram them down our throats. Now that other one you showed me looks much better, but the technology is wrong. It's not green, it is an alternative, but it's not green.
Nothing is green - not even cycling or walking now that the war has been declared on CO2.
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Pious due to the media hype, the "stars" that buy them and ram them down our throats
I'm sorry but I really do not know what you mean by the media hype or the "stars" that buy them :?
I have always ignored what appears to be 'hype' in order to formulate my own opinion on something.... I cannot recall ever reading any hyped up comments on hybrid cars but then again I regard most forms of modern media promotion as crap :?
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like the look of the concept car
400 bhp - the environmentalists will be q'uing to buy that eco vehicle
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After the kebab I had the other night I need to do some Carbon off setting... :lol:
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On the useless facts front, I have a few:
Jet engines have been used as snowblowers. The experiments took place shortly post-WW2 on a railway line at Dowlais Top. Unfortunately they were a tad over-effective, removing not only the snow but the ballast too...
Ever wondered why your PC has no drive B? This is a leftover from the days when some computers had twin floppy disk drives. The second floppy drive would have been B.
Left Hand Drive versions of the original Range Rover couldn't have an overdrive fitted, as the altered handbrake linkage was precisely where the overdrive would be.
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Pious due to the media hype, the "stars" that buy them and ram them down our throats
I'm sorry but I really do not know what you mean by the media hype or the "stars" that buy them :?
I have always ignored what appears to be 'hype' in order to formulate my own opinion on something.... I cannot recall ever reading any hyped up comments on hybrid cars but then again I regard most forms of modern media promotion as crap :?
dont you, sorry i assumed you knew everything!! So far you seem to....
right back to your previous comment , dispose of does not mean remove from the universe. You can dispose of hydrofloric acid...infact you pay a lot of money to do so....but it still exists and will still kill just as easily as before. So can we agree that disposal is simply moving the problem elsewhere.
As for prius owners being pratts then i stand by it,as its my opinion. They bought the car for one of 2 reasons.
1- they want to be green
2- they want save money on fuel.
as we all seem to have agreed they are neither green or as economical as they appear to be.
You seem to be an expert on everything, well try running your CLEAN Landcruiser on bio diesel or oil....i think you may end up with a large repair bill.
BTW this is MUD CLUB not clear wheels r us.... :roll: Fancy a day laning??lol
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I stand corrected with the Louvre issue.... but I love the comment.... "outstanding piece of modern sculpture".... jeez what a comical statement :D
The single cell fact was a useless fact, not meant to be a springboard for people to insult or belittle others :(
So what was your use of the word "pious" meant to be.... don't bother to answer as I already know :?
As there are a couple of you that seem to dislike the Prius concept so much can you tell me that you hate this car with the same passion
(http://i16.photobucket.com/albums/b2/p15pathfinder/Toyota_FT-HS-concept3.jpg)
Although still a concept car it might just make it into production. It has a 3.5 litre engine with the same hybrid technology that is in the Prius.... oh yes it is a crap pious car too but with a total of 400bhp!
I think thats butt ugly!! The reason I'm against the Prius has nothing to do with the styling, its to do with the way they promote it as "THE GREEN ALTERNATIVE" when its clearly not!! No factory I know of that produces bits for our supposed green monsters of the environment has poluted the environment the same way as the place that produces the stuff for the Prius!!
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aparently No-where in england is more than 52 miles form a coast-line
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I stand corrected with the Louvre issue.... but I love the comment.... "outstanding piece of modern sculpture".... jeez what a comical statement :D
And just what is so comical about that statement ?
The Range Rover was ground breaking design and technology at it's best when it first appeared on the market and is still an icon and the forerunner to every other 4x4 SUV on the market today
Including that fugly piece of Jap design in your sig
whatever it is..................................................................
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I get the usual crap about driving a gas guzzler from my esteemed colleagues. However, I drive about 300 miles per month in my Disco (heavy driving month) as I cycle to and from work. We drive to Kent in my car as it will hold all of our luggage and fit 3 adults(I include myself) and 2 children in car seats. Last summer Kim said we would be going to Kent in her Honda Jazz ?????????? I told her to give me a shout when the car was ready for going - after an hour she came in and said " looks like we are going in yours" The issue here is if we both had smallish saloons then we would be taking 2 smallish cars to kent instead of one larger one.
To get to the point of the thread, yes the pious does seem "green" but at the end of its life it creates more pollution (FoE) to dispose of it than it did to create it. ALL Landrovers can be built and rebuilt from previously scrap landies/ rangies et al
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OK guys.
Draw a line in the sand for me.
Where would you like mankind to end its automotive evolution?
Many of you seem to think the Rangerover with a lumpy old diesel running on veg is the place to be. Some are happy with their RR V8, some of you have sense and drive a Landcruiser. Perhaps one of you has delved into a 'green' car like a Prius.
Cars like the LR and then RR led to modern 4x4's that were more efficient and safer, cars like the Prius will lead to more efficient and greener cars. Damn it, its the only car of its nature at the moment.
Dont harp on about the so called green diesels, ever seen a direct injection motor pull away hard.....that cloud of black smoke(yes, they all do it) is called pollution.........The Toyota Dcat engine has an injector into the exhaust to burn diesel in the manifold to keep the cat warm. wastes fuel so it reduces emissions.......waste of resources???
Mankind has grown used to its multi speaker stereo systems and climate controls and sat navs, it believes it needs cars it can safely crash at 30 mph, with maybe 10 or 11 explosive charges insisde to operate safety devices, so manufacturers are building greener cars with all those things in mind.
Naming no names, but a showroom full of old rangerovers with reused daihatsu motors running like smokey old tubs on veg oil would NOT win the current auto buying market over.
Lets make today the day of the field trip!
Lets all go out(those of you who arent working) and visit dealerships and see what is available. Pop out and see the tiny diesel polo and think, great car, but would wife/kids/dog all fit? Lets see the prius in the flesh and wonder at its......startling beauty?......and the fact that it is an economical and roomy green car, lets look at Japanese 4x4's and be amazed that the little oriental guts have taken a 4x4 and added comfort and reliability, and if you can manage it, a trip to the LR showroom to ogle to RR sport in all its snrting beauty.
There are so many blinkered views on here, generally thrown out onto the net with little thought or intelligence behind them. I know the Prius isn THE answer, but its an evolution which may lead us to the future, just like fuel cells, and electric power.
Partner up to keep you safe, and join in the field trip, check out what other people have done with cars, see the modern creations for what they are, then take the blinkers off and post informed comments.
Rolla :wink:
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Oh yeah, make a trip to a Toyota dealership in the North of Sheffield and you might see me, and win a free mug of hot chocolate or coffee. Your choice.
Now theres an exciting offer, Landcruisers, Priuses, and Warm beverages.
DAMN thats good.
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Just a thought but petrol engines will run very nicely on fermented sugar otherwise known as ethanol that is carbon neutral ish compared to dead dinosaurs. Just a thought.
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and in brazil all cars run on alcohol.
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Sounds like a waste of good booze to me :wink:
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Some of you are missing a crucal point in all of the "green" debate.........
I drive my discovery because I bloody well want to!!!! It does everything I want it to do, and I'm sure that there are other 4x4s out there from other makers that will do it as well, and quite possibly in better comfort!! But I want to drive a discovery!!
I like Landrovers, I'm not so blinkered to miss the fact that other 4x4's have more comfort, some are faster, more fuel efficient etc, but I WANT to drive the Discovery!! I would not buy a small car, be it a Prius or other make/model because they would be absolutely useless to me. I need a car that will pull a 3 tonne trailer, haul up the motorway at the legal limit and go off road because I want it to!!
No matter what people say about the Prius, its NOT a green car!! Its full life cycle is more polluting than a hummer for goodness sake!!
It is an attempt at a green car, and compared to some, it may well be? but a true green car its not! Landrover and many other manufacturers are investing shed loads of money in alternatives to the fossil fuel engines, and WHEN they get there, I will probably still drive my Discovery cos I want to!!
My issue with the Prius is the claims that they make! Its green this, green that!!!! its all balls!
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The first product ever to have a bar code was wrigleys chewing gum!!!!
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dont you, sorry i assumed you knew everything!! So far you seem to....
right back to your previous comment , dispose of does not mean remove from the universe. You can dispose of hydrofloric acid...infact you pay a lot of money to do so....but it still exists and will still kill just as easily as before. So can we agree that disposal is simply moving the problem elsewhere.
As for prius owners being pratts then i stand by it,as its my opinion. They bought the car for one of 2 reasons.
1- they want to be green
2- they want save money on fuel.
as we all seem to have agreed they are neither green or as economical as they appear to be.
You seem to be an expert on everything, well try running your CLEAN Landcruiser on bio diesel or oil....i think you may end up with a large repair bill.
BTW this is MUD CLUB not clear wheels r us.... :roll: Fancy a day laning??lol
Sadly you have the inability, in my opinion, to put forward a reasoned arguement without resorting to bitching. Shame!! I will debate/argue a point with anyone but it seems that you are either unable or unwilling to do the same. I took exception to your comment that Prius owners were "pratts" simply because you don't know all the Prius owners or their reasons for buying such a car. Have you ever considered the possibility that they might just like it and may never have even thought about the environment when they bought it. Ah well there ends that issue. As for my LC and running it on bio-diesel or oil, I never said anything about such a thing as I very much know that it is not able to, see I do know that much! I enjoyed your feeble comment "...BTW this is MUD CLUB not clear wheels r us.... :roll: Fancy a day laning??..." You know my reasons for not going laning and they are something covered elsewhere on this board so not worthy of mentioning again.
I think thats butt ugly!! The reason I'm against the Prius has nothing to do with the styling, its to do with the way they promote it as "THE GREEN ALTERNATIVE" when its clearly not!! No factory I know of that produces bits for our supposed green monsters of the environment has poluted the environment the same way as the place that produces the stuff for the Prius!!
You are entitled to your own opinion where styling is concerned as am I. I happen to very much dislike those stupid ugly red Italian cars. Its a good job we are all different.
I stand corrected with the Louvre issue.... but I love the comment.... "outstanding piece of modern sculpture".... jeez what a comical statement :D
And just what is so comical about that statement ?
The Range Rover was ground breaking design and technology at it's best when it first appeared on the market and is still an icon and the forerunner to every other 4x4 SUV on the market today
Including that fugly piece of Jap design in your sig
whatever it is..................................................................
I don't like the Range Rover.... never have and never will but I have to say the Transit in your avatar ain't so bad.... meoow :wink:
Thanks to everyone for their comments and should you wish to continue to reply then of course feel free to do so. But don't expect me to read them or even respond as I will most probably be outside cleaning my car and making the wheels even more shiney than they currently are 8) :D
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Spiral staircases in medieval castles are running clockwise. This is because all knights used to be right-handed. When the intruding army would climb the stairs they would not be able to use their right hand which was holding the sword because of the difficulties of climbing the stairs. Left-handed knights would have had no troubles, except left-handed people could never become knights because it was assumed that they were descendants of the devil.
Ok Im left handed :( :lol: :lol: :lol:
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but I have to say the Transit in your avatar ain't so bad.... meoow :wink:
Transit ?????????........................................................................
I thought it was a Taxi ! :wink:
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Spiral staircases in medieval castles are running clockwise. This is because all knights used to be right-handed. When the intruding army would climb the stairs they would not be able to use their right hand which was holding the sword because of the difficulties of climbing the stairs. Left-handed knights would have had no troubles, except left-handed people could never become knights because it was assumed that they were descendants of the devil.
Ok Im left handed :( :lol: :lol: :lol:
Sinister is originally a Latin term for left or to the left, and is used in heraldry to refer to the left of the bearer of the arms, and to the right by the viewer's eyes. It is often used to mean evil.
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Spiral staircases in medieval castles are running clockwise. This is because all knights used to be right-handed. When the intruding army would climb the stairs they would not be able to use their right hand which was holding the sword because of the difficulties of climbing the stairs. Left-handed knights would have had no troubles, except left-handed people could never become knights because it was assumed that they were descendants of the devil.
Ok Im left handed :( :lol: :lol: :lol:
Sinister is originally a Latin term for left or to the left, and is used in heraldry to refer to the left of the bearer of the arms, and to the right by the viewer's eyes. It is often used to mean evil.
Please dont tell my Mrs that :shock: :lol: :lol: :lol:
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Spiral staircases in medieval castles are running clockwise. This is because all knights used to be right-handed. When the intruding army would climb the stairs they would not be able to use their right hand which was holding the sword because of the difficulties of climbing the stairs. Left-handed knights would have had no troubles, except left-handed people could never become knights because it was assumed that they were descendants of the devil.
Ok Im left handed :( :lol: :lol: :lol:
Sinister is originally a Latin term for left or to the left, and is used in heraldry to refer to the left of the bearer of the arms, and to the right by the viewer's eyes. It is often used to mean evil.
Please dont tell my Mrs that :shock: :lol: :lol: :lol:
thought your mrs knew that :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:
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Spiral staircases in medieval castles are running clockwise. This is because all knights used to be right-handed. When the intruding army would climb the stairs they would not be able to use their right hand which was holding the sword because of the difficulties of climbing the stairs. Left-handed knights would have had no troubles, except left-handed people could never become knights because it was assumed that they were descendants of the devil.
Ok Im left handed :( :lol: :lol: :lol:
Sinister is originally a Latin term for left or to the left, and is used in heraldry to refer to the left of the bearer of the arms, and to the right by the viewer's eyes. It is often used to mean evil.
Please dont tell my Mrs that :shock: :lol: :lol: :lol:
thought your mrs knew that :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:
No she only thinks it, and I dont want it confirmed :shock: :lol: :lol:
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'The Devil's Advocate Rides Out"
You are all falling into the trap of actually trying to justify your choice of vehicle to this 'Silvery Thing'.
Just like the anti 4x4 brigade, it's not his business what you choose to drive, and rising to the bait as you all seem to have done isn't helping your cause.
Talking of the Prius, no one will win me over to that environmental killer - prat or not - it has destroyed the landscape both in Canada and around the works in Wales. One of our members worked on the battery engineering in Wales and told me personally how the area around some material within the Prius had shrivelled and died.
Now I went looking for the original link and it has strangely been replaced by an apology that the article had been misinterpreted!
Hope The Mail had a good xmas party on the proceeds of that retraction.
Shame that, except I still have the original on file...
Toyota factory turns landscape to arid wilderness
By MARTIN DELGADO, Mail on Sunday - Last updated 18th November 2006
The 'green-living' Toyota Prius has become the ultimate statement for those seeking to stress their commitment to the environment.
However, the environment-saving credentials of the cars are seriously undermined by the disclosure that one of the car's essential components is produced at a factory that has created devastation likened to the arid environment of the moon.
So many plants and trees around the factory at Sudbury in Ontario, Canada, have died that astronauts from Nasa practised driving moon buggies on the outskirts of the city because it was considered the closest thing on earth to the rocky lunar landscape.
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v512/DEANO3528/others/prius.jpg)
Unlike normal cars, hybrids such as the Prius, whose proud owners include Gwyneth Paltrow, Brad Pitt, Julia Roberts and ex-Tory leader Michael Howard, are powered by a battery that contains nickel - as well as a traditional petrol engine.
Toyota gets the metal from a Canadian company whose smelting facility at Sudbury has spewed sulphur dioxide into the air for more than a century.
The car giant buys about 1,000 tons a year from the plant, which is owned by Inco, one of the world's largest nickel-mining companies.
Fumes emerging from the factory are so poisonous that they have destroyed vegetation in the surrounding countryside, turning the once-beautiful landscape into the bare, rocky terrain astronauts might expect to find in outer space.
Although efforts have been made in recent years to reduce emissions from the plant's 1,250ft chimney - dubbed the Superstack - campaigners say the factory is still responsible for some of the worst pollution in North America.
David Martin, energy co-ordinator of Greenpeace Canada, said: "The acid rain around Sudbury was so bad it destroyed all the plants and the soil slid down off the hillside.
"The solution they came up with was the Superstack. The idea was to dilute the pollution, but all it did was spread the fallout right across northern Ontario. Things improved in the Nineties but the plant is still responsible for large-scale emissions of sulphur dioxide.
"Sudbury remains a major environmental and health problem. The environmental cost of producing that car battery is pretty high."
Once the nickel is smelted it is sent 10,000 miles on a container ship journey which in itself consumes vast quantities of fuel and energy.
First it is shipped to Europe's biggest nickel refinery at Clydach near Swansea, South Wales. From there it is transported to the Chinese cities of Dalian and Shenyang to be turned into a lightweight substance called nickel foam.
The final stage of the manufacturing process takes place in Japan where the Prius batteries are made.
Toyota produced nearly 180,000 Prius cars last year, some 4,000 of which were sold in Britain. Last week 14 MPs from all parties claimed they had exchanged their petrol-guzzling vehicles for a Prius or similar hybrid.
But some experts doubt whether the Prius even wins the argument over fuel consumption.
Robert Fowler, of the Battery Vehicle Association, said: "It is questionable whether it does any more miles to the gallon than a good diesel.
"The hybrid system has a very small battery so most of the time it's operating as a petrol car, particularly out of town and above 30mph."
A Toyota spokesman said last night: "I cannot confirm the source of the nickel used in the Prius battery. It is true there is a slight increase in the energy required to produce the materials for the car."
An engineer wrote:
I designed the machinery that made the Prius batteries possible, taking the raw reticulated foam through the coating process, the furnace lines and the slitting and editing machines.
I don't have time to write about how horrible the process is but, down in Wales where the plant is, they have a large rock from which the nickel ore is extracted, sitting in pride of place on the lawn outside their offices. The rain has dissolved the nickel and it, along with sundry other elements, has killed all the grass in a twenty metre radius.
The prius batteries use a nickel matrix, which is made by depositing pure nickel on to a polyurethane foam, this proccess involves converting the nickel to a gas form known as carbonyl, which is has the strange characteristic of condensing on to things warmer than itself.
which means that if you were to breathe in the carbonyl gas, it would coat the inside of your lungs in pure nickel.
Consider the possibilities of a gas leak!
Unlike others, I leave the choice of vehicle one drives, to the person driving it.
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Got there before you DEANO3528 :wink:
Some of you are missing a crucal point in all of the "green" debate.........
I drive my discovery because I bloody well want to!!!! It does everything I want it to do, and I'm sure that there are other 4x4s out there from other makers that will do it as well, and quite possibly in better comfort!! But I want to drive a discovery!!
And as for the rest of your post, I couldn't agree more!
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The way forward....?
I think we should experiment with deposit paid containers that are returned directly to the manufacturer on the same vehicle that delivers from the factory. This might work for bulky items like Lemonade or Cola-Coka.
For daily delivery of fresh milk how about the supplier managing 100% reusable packaging and running a near silent fleet of electric powered vehicles to do doorstep delivery ?
Oh, hang on, we tried that already and declared it old hat :roll:
In the meantime Enviro-terro... Sorry, I actually meant to say activists are using the old rattle tins to fund a Flaming navy (http://www.greenpeace.org/international/about/ships) to cruise round the world and do Eco-Stuff
And another thing, Prious and that other thing with "400bhp" seem to be two seaters.
My People carrier has seven seats but to get seven people from A to B would require 4 Priousesess (No idea what the collective term is).
A veg oil burning 110 fully loaded has even more space but still only takes up one space at the far end of its journey.
When somebody presents me with a new bit of technology that does what I want from todays cars at the same price I'll happily adopt it.
But as long as I'm on the brunt of taxation AND asked to pay more to get less from a vehicle then I'll stick with what I have.
Now back to the Thread topic USELESS FACTS
I have a little book of them as a christmas pressie.
Miami Vice
The Ferrari in the first series was actually a kit car/replica based on a Chevrolet Corvette.
Aston Martin
The concept show car for the V8 Vantage was built in Mumbai
Batteries
The lead acid battery was first invented in 1859.
The AA gets called out to 1650 flat batteries every day
Jet Power
Rover built the first car to be powered by a jet engine
Hydrogen power
in 1935 Henry Garrett demonstrated a car that could synthesise Hydrogen from water and performed several test runs for the media.
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Many of you seem to think the Rangerover with a lumpy old diesel running on veg is the place to be ...
Nothing wrong with Captain Caveman technology - my mate Ned Ludd thinks so too :lol:
Naming no names, but a showroom full of old rangerovers with reused daihatsu motors running like smokey old tubs on veg oil would NOT win the current auto buying market over ...
Ned says he would buy one :lol:
Something we haven't slated yet is depreciation.
The most my Rangie could depreciate is 100% - about a grand.
The same as your Prius will lose as soon as you drive it off the forecourt.
So there !
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hahahahahhahahahahahahahahahhahahahahahahahhahahahahahahahahahhahahahahahahahhahahahahahahahahahhahahahahahaha
rangies dont depreciate!
get glasses guide and check. Oh yeah, Prius sell for a premium in london to avoid the congestion charge.(which will hit a city near you soon!!)
Prius seat FIVE people
There are some real pearls of wisdom coming on here, they must be here to amuse me!
Keep em coming and Ill bat em back.
ps
Dont forget to be up early monday mornin to catch the 'special' bus.......
:wink:
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I would love a RRC but becasue of the depreciation i cant really. i could have a £300 special but i want a vogue SE, and i know i would lose money on it.
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Not fully read all this thread, I still believe that global wartming is all part of the conspiracy theory to keep us scared, keep us from becoming united and therefore keep us controlled! Anyway that wasn't my main point.
Bulli had a rant about batteries and recyclability, everything can be reclaimed or recycled, but usualy the cost is greater than the value of the recycled products so we don't bother. As for traditional lead/acid batteries; there is a factory near Darley Dale that is dedicated just to recycling old lead acid batteries, and believe me it ain't a small opperation.
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OK so as I understand it CARBON DIOXIDE (co2) is a greenhouse gas? So we as a species - as do 99.99% of all living thinks on this planet emmit Co2 as a by-product of us living - so when do they envisage putting a 'breathing tax' on us , or fitting hydrogen power cells to us surgically? think about it ..i ead somewhere that an average person exhales about 1/2 a litre of Co2 every breath.. so an average og 45 breathes a minute = 22.5 litres of Co2 every minute 1350litres every hour 32400 every day 11826000 a year .. now i dont know how that works out in Grams ( like the Govt use for vehicles) but multiply that by about 6 billion, and I think we get an idea of why we get 'global warming'...Plus arent we heading for a Planet 'warming' before yet another ice age ??? (every 3,000,000 years or so I think!
MY OPINION - NOT A STATEMENT OF FACT ( before the thought police come knocking)
FACT - The wings of a 747 are longer than the Wright Brothers 1st flight - (my useless fact of the day )
:D
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All batteries can indeed be disposed of and that DOES include all the chemicals.... try doing a Google search if you are unsure :roll:
:lol:
Mark this is what i was responding to, and yes batteries can be recycled but there is a lot of harm done still. Like recycled paper, the chemicals used cause more damage so you are best using paper from renewable forrests. Either way the chemicals still exist and what cannot be reused is the acid in lead acid batteries...i cant find a mention of what does happen to them.
here is a website extract.
Battery reprocessing
Batteries contain a range of metals which can be reused as a secondary raw material. There are well-established methods for the recycling of most batteries containing lead, nickel-cadmium, nickel hydride and mercury. For some, such as newer nickel-hydride and lithium systems, recycling is still in the early stages.
There are a number of different recycling processes for batteries, which are aimed at recovering a variety of materials:
Lead can be recovered by either separating the different materials that make up the battery (lead, plastics, acid, etc.) prior to metallurgical processing. Alternatively, batteries can be processed as a whole through heat treatment in a particular type of furnace with metals being recovered at the end of his process.
NiCd batteries can be reprocessed through a similar thermal technique, which recovers cadmium and iron-nickel for steel production.
Batteries containing mercury (button cells) are most commonly processed using a vacuum-thermal treatment, in which the mercury vaporises. It condenses and eventually solidifies when temperatures are reduced and can then be reintroduced into the material cycle.
NiMH batteries are reprocessed by mechanically separating the individual materials (plastic, hydrogen and nickel) within a vacuum chamber to prevent the escape of hydrogen. The output of this process is a product with high nickel content which can be used in the manufacture of stainless steel.
Li-Ion batteries are currently reprocessed through pyrolysis (heat treatment) with the primary recovery the metal content.
Zinc-carbon/air and alkaline-manganese batteries can be reprocessed using a number of different methods, which include smelting and other thermal-metallurgical processes to recover the metal content (particularly zinc).
So all the processes are energy intensive when reclaiming the material from batteries. Which is probably less harmful to the environment than digging the stuff from the ground and carrying out the initial proccessing. It still does have environmental impact though. So all this talk of well just recycle it doesnt mean it doesn no harm.... food for thought eh?
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All batteries can indeed be disposed of and that DOES include all the chemicals.... try doing a Google search if you are unsure :roll:
:lol:
Mark this is what i was responding to, and yes batteries can be recycled but there is a lot of harm done still. Like recycled paper, the chemicals used cause more damage so you are best using paper from renewable forrests. Either way the chemicals still exist and what cannot be reused is the acid in lead acid batteries...i cant find a mention of what does happen to them.
here is a website extract.
Battery reprocessing
Batteries contain a range of metals which can be reused as a secondary raw material. There are well-established methods for the recycling of most batteries containing lead, nickel-cadmium, nickel hydride and mercury. For some, such as newer nickel-hydride and lithium systems, recycling is still in the early stages.
There are a number of different recycling processes for batteries, which are aimed at recovering a variety of materials:
Lead can be recovered by either separating the different materials that make up the battery (lead, plastics, acid, etc.) prior to metallurgical processing. Alternatively, batteries can be processed as a whole through heat treatment in a particular type of furnace with metals being recovered at the end of his process.
NiCd batteries can be reprocessed through a similar thermal technique, which recovers cadmium and iron-nickel for steel production.
Batteries containing mercury (button cells) are most commonly processed using a vacuum-thermal treatment, in which the mercury vaporises. It condenses and eventually solidifies when temperatures are reduced and can then be reintroduced into the material cycle.
NiMH batteries are reprocessed by mechanically separating the individual materials (plastic, hydrogen and nickel) within a vacuum chamber to prevent the escape of hydrogen. The output of this process is a product with high nickel content which can be used in the manufacture of stainless steel.
Li-Ion batteries are currently reprocessed through pyrolysis (heat treatment) with the primary recovery the metal content.
Zinc-carbon/air and alkaline-manganese batteries can be reprocessed using a number of different methods, which include smelting and other thermal-metallurgical processes to recover the metal content (particularly zinc).
So all the processes are energy intensive when reclaiming the material from batteries. Which is probably less harmful to the environment than digging the stuff from the ground and carrying out the initial proccessing. It still does have environmental impact though. So all this talk of well just recycle it doesnt mean it doesn no harm.... food for thought eh?
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Just checking your awake....morning
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lol, clearly not as i posted it twice lol
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I'm heading to the useless facts, how about this one
In many countries, it is the custom to wish friends a "Happy Birthday" on January 1st, rather than a "Happy New Year." This day is nicknamed "Everyman's Birthday," and is considered the day when everyone becomes a year older, whether it's their actual day of birth or not. Similarly, this practice is observed in horse racing. No matter when a race horse is born, they all "become" a year older on New Year's Day, although there are no records explaining how or why this came to be
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Lithiated Lemon was the creation of Charles Griggs from Missouri, who introduced the lemon-lime drink in 1929. Four years later he renamed it 7-Up. Sales increased significantly.
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most peoples left foot is slightly bigger. that being most people are right handed...left hookers have larger right feet.
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On a standard "qwerty" keyboard, there are 1,447 English words that are typed solely with the left hand. There are only 187 words typed with the right hand alone.
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the qwerty keyboard apparently came about becase office staff were typing too quickly on typewriters, jamming the whole thing, so they thought if they jumbled the letters up it would slow them down.
so ive been told anyway.