Mud-club
Vehicle & Technical => Defender => Topic started by: age on October 02, 2009, 11:48:33
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Is it just me or is this pretty poor service from a 'workhorse' diesel?
X Reg 110 td5 with 150k on the clock. Had new head gasket, injector, still got major probs with coolant loss and 'lock up' starts (diesel in cylinder still? - head cracked??), bad smoking on start and for increasing distance after that, and now 'blowing' steam/smoke from oil filler........
I have a horrible feeling bores/rings, cylinder head etc etc - and fear a full engine recon on the cards.
Any views on what a TD5 durability ought to be. Its had regular oil and filter changes and relatively easy life.
Any comments on recon, exchange, where, who......??? Any thoughts gratefully received. A
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try Jon Daunter in Forest of Dean I *think* he had a TD5 in there the other day
http://landroverbreaker.com/index.html
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Thanks 'Tangle' - he does indeed have one. Need to decide which route to take - full refurb of the one I've got and loved (!) for 150k, would be more expensive...? What would I be getting for my lolly with a used one....? frying pans and fires.....? decisions decisions......
Do you think 150k is pretty poor for this engine?
Thanks for your help. A
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Thanks 'Tangle' - he does indeed have one. Need to decide which route to take - full refurb of the one I've got and loved (!) for 150k, would be more expensive...? What would I be getting for my lolly with a used one....? frying pans and fires.....? decisions decisions......
Do you think 150k is pretty poor for this engine?
Thanks for your help. A
sorry m8 can't help with advice on the TD5 or how best to approach making the decision as my knowledge is based on experience and I have had very little to do with TD5's. I would least find out what is actually wrong with engine it might not be end of world. I do not know what sort of price a replacement td from Jon is (have always found him reasonable) hopefully it will include some sort off warranty, then you'll know if you got a good un then ermmm *shift* old one on to recoup losses. I do not know him that well to comment although he is friend of a family member, Jon Daunty has come along quite a bit since I first met and seems to have established a good legit business so hopefully that is a good reflection on parts he sells. I got my transfer box from there the other day and was very happy.
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Useful background - hope someone with lots of TD5 experience has some views....?
Jon certainly sounded fine - it's all the 'unknowns' that concern me, being slightly upset at having to face such major decisions at such a young age (the engine, not me I can assure you...!!)
Ho Hum - onwards and upwards....... A
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Its not the end of the world,get the head off and have it pressure tested,£20.If thats ok then sump off hone the bores if needed(doutfull) and a set of rings. And the best bit is you wont have to take the lump out. MAN MADE IT MAN CAN FIX IT!!!!
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That's the sort of positive thinking I needed Bogie - thanks! Mind you it doesn't have leaf springs so apparently no good anyway.........!
I'll get the head off in the next couple of weeks. Cheers, A
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Thanks 'Tangle' - he does indeed have one. Need to decide which route to take - full refurb of the one I've got and loved (!) for 150k, would be more expensive...? What would I be getting for my lolly with a used one....? frying pans and fires.....? decisions decisions......
Do you think 150k is pretty poor for this engine?
Thanks for your help. A
My 03 plate double cab is on 160k and runs great (touch wood)
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It all depends on how the previous moneys treated it. The old saying "NEVER TRUST A CLEAN PERFECT LOOKING LANDROVER".Get the bible for it and get preying,but im shore i could fit it in to a leafer!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! P.S. Dont mix the injecters up,the ecu will have flidds at you!!!!
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ive seen inside td5's with higher miles than that and the origional cross hatch is still visable
did you get the head preasure tested like i said ?
remove the exhasut manifold and look into the ports, which ever one is clean and not sooty is your problematic cylinder
did you replace headbolts when you did the head ?
did you check the head with a straight edge for any distortion ??
did any of the cylinders look porous or odd pits anywhere ?
the td5 is pretty good, id be inclinded to say the problem is upstairs not downstairs
dan
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ive seen inside td5's with higher miles than that and the origional cross hatch is still visable
did you get the head preasure tested like i said ?
remove the exhasut manifold and look into the ports, which ever one is clean and not sooty is your problematic cylinder
did you replace headbolts when you did the head ?
did you check the head with a straight edge for any distortion ??
did any of the cylinders look porous or odd pits anywhere ?
the td5 is pretty good, id be inclinded to say the problem is upstairs not downstairs
dan
Hi Dan,
The head was done by an independent - no idea whether they replaced the bolts or what checks they did, they just told me it was ok for just the gasket 18 months ago. Oh, and I told them to replace the plastic dowels.
Haven't had the head off yet to pressure test - will do your exhaust port inpsection, as long as the manifold studs come off rather than shearing. See what it does to you reading all the disasters waiting to happen on here!
I just need to be more optimistic.
A
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Well - an update given the number of 'views' the thread is getting....... I guess not many have such 'low' mileage and the same probs?
Finally 'locked up' completely last week. Took glow plug out of No.1 (as that had the diesel flood we fixed last time) and turned it over ........ gallons of coolant everywhere!! No doubt about gasket now (maybe the hydraulic with the diesel was the final straw, but its been using coolant for quite some time.
Last time it started (with a bit of sulking and knocking) it had a slight vibration. Could be compression imbalance, or con-rod.....
Anyway I've started stripping down to the head - fuel cooler and inlet manifold left then un-bolt carefully and see what we find. I've quite enjoyed it so far - ignoring the 'worst case' scenarios playing out in my head. Should have results after the weekend - and maybe a Turner head on the way............
btw - Bogie mentioned reprogramming new injectors - didn't do this with the one we replaced, seemed to fire ok. What is involved and where what do I need to get this done? Code off the injector for starters I guess? Oh, and I've had the truck since new so any screw ups are mine alone!!
Cheers, A
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there will be a 5 letter code on top of each injector which can be put onto the ecu via nanocom or similar
wrong injector codes effect engines in different ways :-
some struggle to start
some wont rev above 3k
some missfire on startup and so on
dan
p.s give me a try before anyone for a cyl head ;) ;)
or any other parts infact
dan
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All in bits on the garage floor........
Gasket very clean/polished all wound no1 and part of no 2. No visible cracks but I guess that means nothing. Off to the engineers this week.
Cleaning up all the bits and pieces - shoudl breathe a lot better without all the crud I took out of the EGR/inlet manifold.
Exhaust mating surfaces really rough - looks like a bit of a blow on no.5 at least. All cleaned up and ready to seal perfectly when back together.
New jubillees on all the coolant pipes - don't you love those rusty pinchy springy things!!
Cylinder bores on 1 and 2 need a bit of 'light polishing' - surface corrosion from sitting with coolant in (the hollow crowns were full......), although most honing marks still showing.
Really useful stuff Dan - I'll make sure the new injector code goes in after rebuild, although it ran OK apart from the diesel 'knock' at idle. Not forgotten the heads!
See what this week brings.... Cheers, A
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Well that's screwed then - cracked around No 1 valves. (The surface was seriously 'etched' by the gasket too - was going to need as much 'light polishing' as Mr. LR would permit had it survived).
Recon/used/Turners ........ decisions decisions............... (and cheque book :shock:). A
(glad you're all enjoying this monologue of pain and misery :()
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Stick a 200 in,much better lump mate!
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Stick a 200 in,much better lump mate!
Darn it Bogie - you've spoiled the whole monologue thing now!! :D
Entirely agree - the 300tdi was far better - I can entirely see why the export markets gave the td5 the cold shoulder.
Still, if you've got lemons........... Cheers, A
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Your get it done mate,just pretend its a 200 and you will smile!
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(glad you're all enjoying this monologue of pain and misery :()
probably got a few worried 8-[
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It really is a rare thing to hear of TD5 failures!
This engine is quoted often as the most reliable engine Landrover has ever done!! I know of lots with well over 200K on them, one mate who hauls heavy stuff around the country has 245000 on his and he reckons its just about run in!
Hope you get it sorted soon.
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It really is a rare thing to hear of TD5 failures!
This engine is quoted often as the most reliable engine Landrover has ever done!! I know of lots with well over 200K on them, one mate who hauls heavy stuff around the country has 245000 on his and he reckons its just about run in!
Hope you get it sorted soon.
.......so there really is a God, and s/he hates me!!! Still agonising over which route...... recon and maybe fail again, or 3x cost for a 'Turner' AMC which I have now heard rave reviews.....? But then if Mac is right chances are the recon will be a good'un....... and actually the dismantling/labour has been quite 'fun' so not scared at the simple prospect of having to do it all again in a couple of years...... Should have the readies to do either next week, so decision time over the weekend! Cheers, A
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On the off-chance anyone is interested ...... AMC head arrived last Friday. What a beauty! Really clean casting, visible extra metal round the injectors etc - sadly exciting to behold!!
So, spent Sunday rebuilding - really careful check and clean of all the moving bits. Old injector seals were pretty stuck, but all nice and new now. Fair bit of burnt crud to clean off the injector itself, so guess there was a bit of seepage round the old seals. New fuel regulator fitted - casting has blank for the later 2 rail version, so looks different but none of the v2 tubes/pipes drilled or fitted so guess just a cost saving on 2 types of casting.
Checked and cleaned all the tappets and rollers. Two goes at the cam carrier seal - kept waking up Sunday not sure I'd been careful enough to avoid the oil ways so off it came! Quite alright of course, but now I know...... and the second tube of sealant was far better than the old stuff I had first time round.
Cam shaft is a very cosy fit in the new head/carrier - no doubt a good thing..... End-float well within spec. All very pre-lubed on assembly.
So, mate with torque wrench arrives tomorrow - all the manifolds cleaned and prepped - just about remember what all the plastic cups of nuts/bolts/clips belong on - need to buy some coolant to fill up with then the moment of truth....
Watch this space......!! A
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love when people do these rebuild jobs and don't even own a torque wrench themsleves :dance:
bet you be glad to get it on the road again.
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On the off-chance anyone is interested ...... AMC head arrived last Friday. What a beauty! Really clean casting, visible extra metal round the injectors etc - sadly exciting to behold!!
So, spent Sunday rebuilding - really careful check and clean of all the moving bits. Old injector seals were pretty stuck, but all nice and new now. Fair bit of burnt crud to clean off the injector itself, so guess there was a bit of seepage round the old seals. New fuel regulator fitted - casting has blank for the later 2 rail version, so looks different but none of the v2 tubes/pipes drilled or fitted so guess just a cost saving on 2 types of casting.
Checked and cleaned all the tappets and rollers. Two goes at the cam carrier seal - kept waking up Sunday not sure I'd been careful enough to avoid the oil ways so off it came! Quite alright of course, but now I know...... and the second tube of sealant was far better than the old stuff I had first time round.
Cam shaft is a very cosy fit in the new head/carrier - no doubt a good thing..... End-float well within spec. All very pre-lubed on assembly.
So, mate with torque wrench arrives tomorrow - all the manifolds cleaned and prepped - just about remember what all the plastic cups of nuts/bolts/clips belong on - need to buy some coolant to fill up with then the moment of truth....
Watch this space......!! A
it will proberly be a royal b****** to start, but keep at it, it'll go.
did you get my pm ?
dont forget to fit the later metal dowles
if the chain drops off the crank, dont stress or panic
pop the pulley off the crank and flirt the seal out you can then make sure the dis-coloured link is inline with the mark on the crank
dan
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love when people do these rebuild jobs and don't even own a torque wrench themsleves :dance:
bet you be glad to get it on the road again.
Ah but I work on the theory that a frequently used and looked after wrench is better than owning one and fetching it out of a drawer once every 10 years......!! ;) A
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it will proberly be a royal b****** to start, but keep at it, it'll go.
did you get my pm ?
dont forget to fit the later metal dowles
if the chain drops off the crank, dont stress or panic
pop the pulley off the crank and flirt the seal out you can then make sure the dis-coloured link is inline with the mark on the crank
dan
Cheers Dan,
Got the dowels, and timing chain tied up..... what can possibly go wrong.....! (thought I'd replied to pm - thanks for all your thoughts/support!) A
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Im waiting to hear good news mate?
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Well the head is gleaming and assembled..........on the work-bench. As we're giving the block an extra polish, I say 'this piston seems to be a tiny bit low on one side' - maybe a few thou....
Yep, and a bit low too (the other 4 very slightly 'proud' of the block on tdc) - bent con-rod!! Piston has survived. Con-rod and bearings (worn to the copper on one side...) arrive tomorrow. Only another £200 - the shells only come in full sets. I can't be a**ed to replace the other 4 now (one-use only bolts too of course) they can wait (not too long though).
So, second attempt tomorrow. Well fed up, but glad I spotted it rather than lose a big end in a few thousand miles.
Watch this space! Cheers, A
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:shock: never ending horror
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But oddly therapeutic to get it off my chest on here........!! Dingocroft think Christmas has come early. A
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But oddly therapeutic to get it off my chest on here........!! Dingocroft think Christmas has come early. A
your nails might clean up by new year
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Tadaaa........ we have lift off!! Spent Friday putting in the new con-rod and bearing. Glad to say the old one was visibly bent/squashed beside the new one. Not so pleased to say the new one had (very light) corrosion on the big-end surface (not the bearing shell) and one of the bolts - nearly rounded it taking it out ...... Quick polish and usable - but for £80 I kind of expected better.....
Head on - blimey those head bolts shouldn't be going anywhere - tight or what? Oh, and do put the cam sprocket in its chain before you drop the head on..... you can do it afterwards, but with about 1 thou clearance, and moving the sprocket one tooth took ages, the chain clings like a limpet once it drops in the teeth!
Spent yesterday on all the peripherals - good chance to have a clean up of the air intake/breather, and get the new regulator all plumbed in. Skinned a few knuckles, swore a lot at the fiddly bolts. Seem to be lacking one hoist point at the rear/right of the head (I'd swear there was one there, but no sign of it now - could be entirely my imagination!), and lost one 8mm bolt from the sound panel at the back of the engine - on shopping list.... Nothing else lost or left over!
Filled up - checked round 10 times - putting that key in was the most scary thing I've done in years. We'd turned it over by hand of course, but you never know......Turned over 4/5 times priming, then some welly and away she went! Switched off and checked, then a bit longer, then up to temp. No drama, no leaks (that I can see yet......). Tickover is a bit London taxi - need to get that new injector programmed in properly very quickly - could be the source, or maybe the compression is better than its been for years.....
Very gentle revs/load for a few hundred miles with that new bearing shell - but seems smooth and plenty of torque - and no smoke or steam at all out the back!! Woo hoo - as they say - watching out for any teething probs, but looking great so far.
Many thanks for the support/comments - verbal and silent - thanks for putting up with my ramblings.
Lessons?
-don't entrust a head gasket to someone you are not convinced about. They've long gone and I'd never prove it, but I don't think it was a top job.
- don't drive with a known coolant leak. I had no choice - my wife's car had a blown engine (acknowledged manufacturing fault thank you!!) and we had to rely on the Defender, but I'm not sure every top up was a soon as it should have been, and will never be sure I didn't overheat the head....
- don't keep starting it with cylinders filling (doh! - but see 'no choice' as above...) - gasket/coolant was the start, then the pesky 'open' injector' which I think finally blew the remnants of the gasket, so filled right up and hydrauliced the con-rod.... cost me £200 and probably 2 hours (slow) work to replace.
- do it yourself! With some help from someone with some skills/confidence. None of it was beyond me - although I am 'mechanically minded' - take it slowly, get it under cover, be methodical, and it all comes off and goes back on. All the bits in related collections in marked tubs worked fine.
- check the parts at the shop - not just as you are putting them on the engine - its too late then if you are keen to get it rebuilt.
- if you can go for new head (Turners/AMC) for the extra confidence/miles - I'll never know how good a used/exchange might have been, but with hindsight I'm glad I spent the cash.... (the card doesn't come in until 3 weeks -ask me again then....)
Cheers, A
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