Mud-club
Vehicle & Technical => Defender => Topic started by: adafish on November 27, 2007, 17:16:32
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do me bleeding head in this is....spent a fortune on different sets of headlights, and still the latest purchase from Craddocks, the new Wipac ones are pants...I can't see bugga all on dip beam...main is not a problem,with me light bar on...Just round the country roads where i am, its nice to be able to see some bloody distance.I'm running 60/55w H4's with the brighter lite...a ickle side light bulb in blue (which look nice from the front, bloody useless when drivin).....I've got 100/80's around but don't really want to over-load the electrics....What you guys using...? :
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I've always used the Wipac Quadoptics. Never had a problem with them myself. I guess if you are used to 'modern car' lights, they may still seem poor.
Personally, I think the problem lies with the other cars coming towards you. Modern lights seem to be far brighter and make it more difficult for the oncoming traffic. Also, they tend to have a far shaper top cut off point which makes them flash traffic on bumpy roads. If you know what I mean!
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Are you still running you light protector things?? If so, they don't help.
Bulb wise, the best standard wattage bulbs I've found are Phillips Vision Plus... made a difference to my 90 and to my parents Disco.
However, I'm technically limited to only being able to use standard manufactures wattages....
But as your 110 is pre 1st August 1986 (99% sure that’s the right date) you can run any wattage in the headlamps... so legally you could run 80/100w for example....
However, if you do run anything higher than 55/60w then you need to uprated the wiring - which isn't actually a bad thing!!
By running separate relays and a supply from direct from the battery, you lights will improve even using lower wattage bulbs.
The other option, although technically not 100% legal unless you have self leveling headlamps and a wash facility.... is to run a HID setup. You can get H4 spec ones that have the two wattages - and offer a much better light output that standard halogeon bulbs - and they're not that expensive now.
As to which headlamps are the best...
In theory some of the new headlamps with the clear lens, and newer reflector technology should be good... but then I'm not sure, some of them aren't just designed for atheistic appearance, rather than performance.
Wipac aren't that bad... neither are genuine Hella 7" units.... I haven’t really tried any of the newer, clear lens type.
Ian
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I JUST HAD SOME UPGRADED HEADLIGHT FITTED TO MY 110, AND THEY ARE JUST AS CRAP AS STANDARD,PUT THE 80/100W BULBS IN, OK ON FULL BEAM WITH THE 400W ON THE LIGHTBAR AS WELL, BUT DIP BEAM IS STILL CRAP, I DONT THINK THERE IS A GOOD 7" ROUND UNIT AS I TRIED EVERY AVAILABLE TYPE ON THE 90, AND THERE WAS NO DIFFERENCE BETWEEN A £6 UNIT AND A £45 UNIT, SO JUST GET SOME BRIGHTER BULBS AS I FOUND THIS IS THE ONLY THING THAT DOES HELP A BIT.
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Just put some halfrauds 'Brilliance' bulbs in my disco, well impressed i have to say, have made a huge difference to both the brightness and the definition, headlights now VERY white.
Chris
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Wipac headlamps with 30 or 50% brighter 55/60W bulbs are very good as long as the whole system is in good condition, no point blaming the headlamps or bulbs when the wiring is shot and you are not getting full voltage at the bulb.
Over the years I have run most aftermarket headlamps on my LR's but the Ring lamps with Phillips 30% brighter 55/60W bulbs I have been using for the past 7-years are still about the best I have used.
I used to run a 90/110W bulb on my bike over 20-years ago and it did little more than increase glare from signs and upset oncoming drivers. If the beam pattern is poor then increasing the power of the bulb will do nothing.
I do run some extra spots on my 90 but I have to say that even driving through our country lanes to get to work early in the morning I don't have to switch them on as the 'standard' headlamps are just fine (and yes I do drive modern cars as well).
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I find it far cheaper just to eat lots and lots of carrots. :lol:
Im not one to bother about little legalities too much but just out of interest, are your blue sidelamps legal? i know that a few years ago it used to be illigal to run any blue lights on your car as these were emergency services only, but recently there seem to be loads of trucks with blue marker lights and chavs with blue sidelight bulbs and washer jet looking ones.
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http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1&item=260175955810&ssPageName=STRK:MEWA:IT&ih=016
IIRC they charge me £50 for b-xenon, or hi-low bulbs. These have a solenoid in them to operate the dip, plus a control box which is why they cost more.
Fitted 3 sets now, wouldn't go back to Halogen if I could avoid it though.
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Just put some halfrauds 'Brilliance' bulbs in my disco, well impressed i have to say, have made a huge difference to both the brightness and the definition, headlights now VERY white.
Chris
i run the those on my series 3
i was very impressed with the difference, they are now brighter than my 53 plate seat ibiza!
i'm going to put a pair in that as soon as halfords puts them on offer again
so there is no legal limit on wattage for pre 1986 vehicles? interesting
i might go for the 130/90 bulbs in my series3 and put my xenon ones in the ibiza :)
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I'm running Wipac Crystal Clears bought through bolt on bits (http://www.boltonbits.com/acatalog/index.html)
and HIDs H4 bought through E-bay but they cost me £150 for kit and bulb replacements are about £40. The HIDs I'm using are dual filament there are a lot on E-bay Cheaper but only give dip beam. HID is 3x as bright as a 55watt Halogen and uses only 35watts(E' Approved).
I have found I needed adjust them slightly lower than standard and also give them a regular clean to avoid blinding people coming the other way.
Vehicles Made before 1983 there are no control on lighting
Vehicle made from 1983 to 1991 you can fit higher wattage bulbs to an E' approve lens (E' approved there should be E in circle at the bottom of the lens)
Vehicle Made after 1991 Need both E' approve Lens and Bulb
E' approved bulb are 55watts single filament (H1, H2, H3 spotlights) and 60/55watt dual (H4) (if memory serves me correctly the high wattage is actually for dip beam)
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I found that the Cibie series of 7 inch lamps (H180) were very good, not hugely expensive £25ea (Demon Tewwks so cheaper elsewhere) and fit right in no hassle. One guy I know has a set of crystal clear jobs in and is happy. Though he is using 100w H4's (it's an old S3).
I have found Osram Silverstar pretty good at standard wattages.
Try fitting upgraded/new wiring to the lights as they do degrade (particularly with age).
I did some pretty serious mods to my lights to get reasonable dip after the cibies rusted up (10+ years). Because I'm always fiddling I put Hella 90mm projector ones in where the side lights are normally, put 90mm main/indicator where indicator is and put some 8.5inch hella Ralleye 3000 in where the normal 7inch lights go.
Probably going to HID next for the dips to make them even brighter.
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I find the clear "crystal" lights a bit of a pain, especially now I have HID. The beam pattern is very odd, the MOT tetster commented on it and now I'm looking at the road as if it's illuminated by a mirror ball. when I find the old Quadoptics I'm putting them back on.
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The HIDs I'm using are dual filament there are a lot on E-bay Cheaper but only give dip beam. HID is 3x as bright as a 55watt Halogen and uses only 35watts(E' Approved).
Are they dual filament or do they have the solenoid in the back? I'm asking as I've seen some with HID low beam and a Halogen high beam, but not for a while now.
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Go for the (http://arb.com.au/Graphics/ipf_lights/AU/ipf_lights/IPF_lights.jpg)treatment
Replacment headlights(910H) (http://arb.com.au/ipf-headlight-inserts.php), bulbs and a upgraded loom (http://arb.com.au/ipf-globes-and-accessories.php)
We've fitted quite a few of those parts to various Defenders and Classic Rangies and all the customers have been very pleased.
8)
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Go for the (http://arb.com.au/Graphics/ipf_lights/AU/ipf_lights/IPF_lights.jpg)treatment
Replacment headlights(910H) (http://arb.com.au/ipf-headlight-inserts.php), bulbs and a upgraded loom (http://arb.com.au/ipf-globes-and-accessories.php)
We've fitted quite a few of those parts to various Defenders and Classic Rangies and all the customers have been very pleased.
8)
That's what I have, fitted by you guys at Devon 4x4, make sure your lights are pointing in the right direction though, as they blind every [!Expletive Deleted!] !!!!!
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After a lot of fiddling and playing i have found to my limited budget that i have a pair of xenon bulbs brought on e-bay, and wipac crystal units.
The light output is good and the beam and spread is good too.
and just for the extra lighting on the lanes i do have a pair of spots running 100W bulbs.
My little bro runs the Crystals too and he has GE megalight bulbs, these give a very good and similar light too mine.
My dad has just xenon bulbs on the normal LR supplied H4 bowls and it is noticeable to the crystal setup just how you can lose the light. Quite ironic that the 'newer' of our three landies has the worst light setup.
I upgraded to these after running the normal wipac quadoptic setup which with normal bulbs were rubbish. then slightly better with the xenon bulbs.
For those who want something to compare against then even the bog standard 'halogen conversion' offered was miles better than sealed beams.
I have seen the Cibies in lara ^^^ and also in another friends classic range rover. And they are too a reasonable lamp with a good pattern.
As for Kourgath and his current setup is something rather different yet strangely good and functional.
On a different note you will notice that going from 400 odd watts to 110watts (Main beam to dip) far more than when just on 170 to 110. It could be the fact of your eye's reacting to the vast difference in light output so looking like your dip beam in comparison is actually rubbish when it isn't.
Though if i had the money i would go HID. 8)
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I wonder if the twin pair of headlamps on a Santana Defender offer a better set up than its LR counterpart. Anyone got experience?
(http://www.bcpartridge.co.uk/gfx/santana1.gif)
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ive just put some of them new wipac diamond ones in my mates 90 and they are great fab vision from them
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i appreciate what your saying devon as i drop from 600w to 140w main/dip, but, they are still crap, compared to anyother bike light ive seen.
whats this hid conversion some of you have, as ive heard many things about this and sounds easy to get caught out buying something that isnt hid, but sold as, if you know what i mean.
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As for Kourgath and his current setup is something rather different yet strangely good and functional.
Thanks for that clear and strong vote of confidence Ro! Guess I owe you a pint now :)
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Hey Guardian
HID is High Intensity Discharge - think of it as a permanent spark rather than a glowing filament. Lot's of filament (i.e. ordinary) are described as HID and then you find in the small print it says "like"
The confusion also comes as they are marketed sometimes as Xenon and as Xenon is a Halogen gas so some companies that put xenon in the normal bulbs make big words of the xenon.
Put simply you need a special box per bulb (ballast) to generate the 20000v to start the spark in a proper HID lamp so if you see a HID/Xenon and it is a very small box with just two bulbs in it then it is quackery.
eg real thing (http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1&item=150185961608&ssPageName=STRK:MEWA:IT&ih=005)
eg marketing waffle (http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/CITROEN-ZX-ALL-91-98-XENON-HEADLIGHT-BULBS-HID-UPGRADE_W0QQitemZ250190818884QQihZ015QQcategoryZ72235QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem)
The other thing is that you need to ensure you get the right sort of bulb. If you're upgrading your std jobbies then it is probably a H4, you need to get bi-xenon H4 as this will give you HID on both low and high. You do need to get the beam pattern setup correctly as a crappy beam pattern will still be a crappy beam pattern just brighter and more annoying to other drivers...
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Not sure why you put all the info about e-mark etc, because unless you have self levelling HID's or self levelling suspension you are running with an illegal light set-up.
Get involved in an accident where the third party claims they were blinded by your lights and your be up shirt creek without a paddle.
Cheers
Steve
I'm running Wipac Crystal Clears bought through bolt on bits (http://www.boltonbits.com/acatalog/index.html)
and HIDs H4 bought through E-bay but they cost me £150 for kit and bulb replacements are about £40. The HIDs I'm using are dual filament there are a lot on E-bay Cheaper but only give dip beam. HID is 3x as bright as a 55watt Halogen and uses only 35watts(E' Approved).
I have found I needed adjust them slightly lower than standard and also give them a regular clean to avoid blinding people coming the other way.
Vehicles Made before 1983 there are no control on lighting
Vehicle made from 1983 to 1991 you can fit higher wattage bulbs to an E' approve lens (E' approved there should be E in circle at the bottom of the lens)
Vehicle Made after 1991 Need both E' approve Lens and Bulb
E' approved bulb are 55watts single filament (H1, H2, H3 spotlights) and 60/55watt dual (H4) (if memory serves me correctly the high wattage is actually for dip beam)
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The HIDs I'm using are dual filament there are a lot on E-bay Cheaper but only give dip beam. HID is 3x as bright as a 55watt Halogen and uses only 35watts(E' Approved).
Are they dual filament or do they have the solenoid in the back? I'm asking as I've seen some with HID low beam and a Halogen high beam, but not for a while now.
Similar to http://www.hids4u.co.uk/product_details.asp?id=332
They are actually dual beam not the is pretty similar to that of H4 Bulb the only difference is they are slimmer to make the actual bulb about the size of the filament of the Halogen which keeps the beam pattern.
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Not sure why you put all the info about e-mark etc, because unless you have self levelling HID's or self levelling suspension you are running with an illegal light set-up.
Get involved in an accident where the third party claims they were blinded by your lights and your be up shirt creek without a paddle.
Cheers
Steve
That is in actual fact a grey area. This requires vehicles manufactured with HID to have Both self Leveling and Self cleaning Headlamps. That does not include aftermarket I am now aware of some manufacturers fitting at dealerships (as it classified as aftermarket) because there was not enough room for the self - Leveling motors.
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Not sure why you put all the info about e-mark etc, because unless you have self levelling HID's or self levelling suspension you are running with an illegal light set-up.
Isn't EAS fantastic :D
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That is in actual fact a grey area. This requires vehicles manufactured with HID to have Both self Leveling and Self cleaning Headlamps. That does not include aftermarket I am now aware of some manufacturers fitting at dealerships (as it classified as aftermarket) because there was not enough room for the self - Leveling motors.
You need to do your research Boddle as there is no grey area. Department of Transport considers it illegal if you convert an existing Halogen lens enclosure and/or fit without self levelling and lens cleaning.
If you had an accident like I suggested above, it would take a lawyer 5 mins to find this on google. :roll: If this was the case your insurance company would remove their insurance cover and if there was a fatality you could be facing manslaughter charges. Equally you may never have an accident and it wouldn't be an issue, it's your decision.
Here's the link..
http://www.dft.gov.uk/pgr/roadsafety/drs/hidheadlamps
and here's the official blurb cut & pasted ...
Fact sheet: Aftermarket HID headlamps
December 2006
In the Department's view it is not legal to sell or use after market HID lighting kits, for converting conventional Halogen headlamps to HID Xenon. If a customer wants to convert his vehicle to Xenon HID he must purchase completely new Xenon HID headlamps. The reason for this is that the existing lens and reflector are designed around a Halogen filament bulb, working to very precise tolerances. If one places a HID "burner" (bulb) in the headlamp, the beam pattern will not be correct, there will be glare in some places and not enough light in other places within the beam pattern.
The following is the legal rationale:
The Road Vehicle Lighting Regulations 1989 regulate the situation in the UK.
Under these Regulations, HID/Gas Discharge/Xenon headlamps are not mentioned and therefore they are not permitted according to the strict letter of the law.
However new vehicles have HID headlamps. This is because they comply to European type approval Regulations. The UK cannot refuse to register a vehicle with a European type approval. These are to ECE Regulation 98 (for the HID headlamps which are tested on a rig in a laboratory) and ECE Regulation 48 (Lighting Installation on the vehicle).
For the after market, a used vehicle cannot obtain type approval because it is only applicable for new vehicles. However we feel that saying "HID is banned in the after market" would not be reasonable. Instead we should make analogies with new vehicles. It would be reasonable to require HID in the after market to meet the same safety standards as on new vehicles. The same level of safety should apply.
Therefore a HID headlamp unit sold in the after market should:
1. be type approved to ECE Regulation 98 as a component.
2. when fitted to the vehicle should enable ECE Regulation 48 to be complied with (although no government inspection will take place).
3. Comply with RVLR as far as "use" is concerned.
In practice this means:
1. The headlamp unit (outer lens, reflector, bulb) shall be type approved to ECE 98 and be "e-marked" to demonstrate this. That can only be done by the headlamp supplier - Hella, Valeo etc. who must test the headlamp in an independent laboratory.
2. Once fitted to the vehicle it must have headlamp cleaning and self-levelling (which can be for the headlamp or can be in the vehicle suspension - some expensive estate cars have "self-levelling suspension" and that is adequate). Also the dipped beam must stay on with the main beam.
3. The headlamp must be maintained in good working order, kept clean, and aligned/adjusted correctly like any other headlamp.
Under the Road Traffic Act 1988 it is an offence to supply, fit or use vehicle parts which are not legal.
In summary it is not permitted to convert an existing halogen headlamp unit for use with HID bulbs. The entire headlamp unit must be replaced with one designed and approved for use with HID bulbs and it must be installed in accordance with the rules stated above.
If you require any further information regarding the regulations covered by this fact sheet, please contact the DfT at the address below:
Transport Technology and Standards 6
Department for Transport
Zone 2/04
Great Minster House
76 Marsham Street
London
SW1P 4DR
Telephone: 020 7944 2078
Fax: 020 7944 2196
Email: TTS.enquiries@dft.gsi.gov.uk
Still look like a grey area :?: :?:
Cheers
Steve