Mud-club
Vehicle & Technical => Defender => Topic started by: drum on May 20, 2006, 19:34:58
-
I'm having a an intermittent problem with the 110, (2004 TD5) it drives fine, except for one thing, and it doesn't always misbehave, but it is getting more frequent.
If I drive over a certain rpm (I don't have a rev counter so can't tell exactly what it is) the engine cuts all power and just sits at those revs. In 3rd it is 30mph, in 4th 40mph and 5th 50mph only roughly. If I approach these sppeds gradually, I can get slightly furth but as soon as it "retards" it goes back to these speeds.
I'm wondering about turbo??
anybody any ideas??
-
Might be going into limp home mode. As that is a new Defender trick.
-
How can I figure out what is triggering it??
-
(I don't have a rev counter so can't tell exactly what it is) the engine cuts all power and just sits at those revs. In 3rd it is 30mph, in 4th 40mph and 5th 50mph only roughly.
Without going out & driving it Ican't tell you about 3rd & 4th, but 2000RPM in 5th equates to about 50mph in mine.
But.... with the diameter of your tyres????
-
Sounds like an electronics problem. Take it back to the dealer. If its a 2004 it should be still under warranty.
-
What's the temperature gauge saying when it "misbehaves" :wink:
Dave
-
Sounds like a throttle pedal fault to me :idea: or maybe the wiring between that and the ECU.
-
ECU will log the fault codes, if it going into "limp-home-mode" then it should show up on a testbook @ a dealer, and being under warranty unless its self inflicted it should be covered too :)
-
place bets on headgasket going & ecu sensing it OR oil in the injector loom tyhat has traked back to the ecu & the ecu will have engine oil in it :lol:
-
It was only the really really early TD5's that suffered the oil in loom problem, and not even all of them suffered.
I've nto herd of anything post 2000/2001 having loom problems :)
-
It was only the really really early TD5's that suffered the oil in loom problem, and not even all of them suffered.
I've nto herd of anything post 2000/2001 having loom problems :)
not gonna argue with you but i know that any td5 is a potention oil in the loom candidate
-
My TD5 currently won't cruise much above 50mph when warm cos' the temperature gauge shoots into the red and the power dies, it's only momentary and I presume it's the engine managment system cutting in to stop any damage from overheating.
I'm pretty sure it's because of all the crap n' mud still in the radiator fins that's the cause ................... now mater how much I jet wash it can't seem to get the back clean ........... looks like it's gonna have to come off and have a soak in the bath 8) .....So that mean's waiting for a weekend whem the Mrs is at work and hopefully it ain't poring down :roll:
I suspect Drum's problem's a little different cos' we've talked about this before, he did suffer a similar thing a while back but that proved to be an airlock.
Hope it ain't the Head Gasket matey :shock: ................ i'll clean mi' spanners just in case :wink:
Dave
-
Temperature guage is stable, I've had the airlock problem before. and solved it.
Checked the turbo actuator today, and that looks alright. I believe there is a flywheel sensor in the bellhousing that can be a problem so that will be next on my list.
Only problem with taking it to a stealer is if it is self inflicted they charge you nearly £100 to tell you to get stuffed!!! Had it done recently with a wheel bearing (Long story) So really I want to know what the problem is, and if it is likely to be me that's caused it before I take it to them.
-
to be sure you really need to get it on the diagnostics - i had a similar problem which ended up being the throttle pedal.
Do you have an independant that can check the diagnostics for you?
Darren
-
I guessing a few of them can, but it all costs money, so I'd rather eliminate the obvious first.
-
not gonna argue with you but i know that any td5 is a potential oil in the loom candidate
So, Landys suffer from this as well as toyotas........
-
Other thing that can cause problems is the Air Flow meter on TD5's....
-
Right I've checked the Wastegte, so I'll give the air-flow and flywheel sensors a good clean. Then the throttle (it does hve a habit of swimming does my 110).
Then after that I might have to actually pay someone.
-
Flywheel Sensor looked fine, bit of crap on it but nothing metallic, and not too bad really.
Then came the air-flow sensor. Took it out, and it was caked. So I put the air cleaner on it, and it sort of disintergrated :shock: Think I might have found the problem :lol: :lol: :lol:
Ohwell £66 Mail Order, I'll have a ring round tomorrow, see if I can find anything local tomorrow.
A short run out after I broke it, and it drives exactly the same with or without connected. And the problem hasn't changed at all.
-
Still probably cheaper than what the main stealers would charge just to look at it, least you seem to have found the problem though :wink:
Dave
-
But is it THE problem. or just a problem :?
-
Runs a bit smoother I reckon, but didn't fix ought :( :(
Ohwell looks like I might buy myself an OBD reader.
-
Doh.... problem not fixed then :cry:
Just find a good independent specialist.... shouldn’t be that much for them to plug it into their computer....
Though in saying that, your own reader would be nice…:wink:
I keep thinking that I should buy my own Rovacom lite set-up!!!
-
I looked at Rovacom Lite a few months back, but you're really looking a spending 1k+ to get a decent setup. Stuff I'm thinking about are basic fault reader plug into a PocketPC, and allow you to reset faults, and read error codes. Anybody any experience of them??
-
This might help, if your boost pressure from turbo is at the limit the sensor will allow, (14 psi i think), then under load your boost hits 14 psi, and the ECU say, "no" and cuts power down, it feels like you have lost 25% of your power.
Just adjusted the linkage on waste gate, so it cut in earlier, and all was ok.
As for Skywalkers problem, my TD5 use to suddenly go into the red, would run at normal all day, then wack into red, the stain on water bottle made it look like there was water in it, there wasnt, so when i topped it up, next time it hit red, it blew all water out of bottle. Turns out the head gasket had gone, but due to the position of gauge sender, you can run with a half empty radiator, and the temperature gauge will show normal, until combustion gases from head gasket blowing force some water upto sender, then it hits red in about 5 seconds.
I was lucky, only gasket gone, but the heads are common for cracking. :?
-
Thanks lofty, but I don't think it's that, it more like a rev-limiter been hit.
I've just order a OBD reader thing for my PocketPC lets see what that tells me.
-
This might help, if your boost pressure from turbo is at the limit the sensor will allow, (14 psi i think), then under load your boost hits 14 psi, and the ECU say, "no" and cuts power down, it feels like you have lost 25% of your power.
This won't happen unless the boost pressure is above approx. 1.5 or 1.6 bar at ambient (21 - 23psi) ... as this is the boost limit for a Td5.
Just adjusted the linkage on waste gate, so it cut in earlier, and all was ok.
So have you lengthend the rod and reduced the boost pressure, or shortened it and increased it??? The actuator does not effect when the turbo cuts in, just the pressure it is allowed to produce before the waste gate is allowed to open.
On a Defender anyway.... a Disco is slightly different.
-
I looked at Rovacom Lite a few months back, but you're really looking a spending 1k+ to get a decent setup. Stuff I'm thinking about are basic fault reader plug into a PocketPC, and allow you to reset faults, and read error codes. Anybody any experience of them??
Rovacom lite is only about £500 for just the Td5 sections.... plus the cost of the laptop.
-
Think I might have included the price of a Laptop in the cost, still rather alot of money. I'm going to try a simple code reader for starters. I already have the pcoket pc for sat-nav so we'll se how we go with that.
-
Are you getting excessive smoke when the engine goes flat???
Or any diesel 'knock' noise??
-
Nope.
I've visually checked flywheel sensor. I've changed the air-flow sensor and I've checked the wastegate moves freely.
It feels as it I have a rev-limited at about 50 in 5th gear. If I'm really really gentle with the right foot I can get it to about 60/62 then it comes in and settles back at 50 again.
-
Other problems....
Low fuel pressure:
A faulty fuel pump could cause low fuel pressure and poor drivability.
Check the wiring to throttle pedal:
There was a problem with Td5's where the electrical plug on the pedal wasn't plugged in correctly (i.e. latched)
Does this only happen in 5th??
Ian
-
I'll check the throttle cable, and give it a good wiggle.
How can I check for fuel pressure???
No it happens in all gears, but it is in 5th that it is a right pain.
-
I'll check the throttle cable, and give it a good wiggle
Throttle cable... whats one of them then???? It is the wiring your checking :wink:
How can I check for fuel pressure???
With suitable tapping on the fuel line or via a Diagnostic computer. Not sure on a Td5 - pressure at the engine end should be 4 bar though.
Other issues:
Is it a misfire, or just that the engine goes flat?
As there are two other things that cause misfires/running problems on Td5's:
Crankshaft Position (CKP) Sensor is too close to the flywheel or the drive plate. This is most likely to occur when the engine warm or hot.
In this case you need to plug it into a computer and look for 'High-speed crank sync lost fault' - cure is to fit a spacer.
The second problem is a faulty injector; again the Landy really needs to be plugged into a diagnostic computer.
Really I'd be tempted to take it back to the dealer....
IMHO this isn't going to be something the dealer can blame on you, so should be fixed under warranty!!! - and thus you won't have to pay anything.
Ian
-
I meant cable\wire you know what I meant :D
Strangely this morning it seemed better after wiggling the throttle wire, but the fault still came back. And in fairness it was only a trip into leeds at rush hour so I couldn't drive it that hard, really.
My Diagnostic Kit, should be arriving tomorrow, it's only a cheapo one to see how I get on with it, so if that doesn't help at all, then it'll have to go back tto the dealer. Problem is I don't trust any of the dealers round leeds at all.
-
Definite improved after a trip to wakefield this afternoon. Couldn't really give it a good run, but managed to go down at 60/70 all the way, which I couldn't have done earlier in the week. problem came back though on the way back (didn't stop in wakey long), so it could well be related to heat now. I think the Air Flow filter has helped things though.
Hopefully the kit should arrive tomorrow and shed some light on it.
-
From when i had my problems, i found you cant use standard ODB reader on the earlier TD5 ECU, as Land Rover made the set up differant to the europian spec i believe.
-
The one I got doesn't appear to talk either despite listing a 2004 TD5 Defender in its compatability lists. :cry:
I'm awaiting a response from technical support, but I really can't see that happening before tuesday now.
-
Crankshaft Position (CKP) Sensor is too close to the flywheel or the drive plate. This is most likely to occur when the engine warm or hot.
In this case you need to plug it into a computer and look for 'High-speed crank sync lost fault' - cure is to fit a spacer.
The problem does appear to be worse when the engine has warmed up, so I figured I'd have a play. As a test (and obviously not a long term fix) I put a washer below the lug the securing bolt goes through. Result - little if any difference, possibly slightly worse. So I tried 2 washers, Result - won't even start. Don't think it proves anything really, other than it'll take more than a washer to fix it :D
I'll see what the outcome is for Diagnostic test tomorrow, I suspect it might be going back.
-
Anybody know about this from another forum
Web rover may be onto something, while in the UK last month I needed a new clutch master cylinder, mine was starting to go (seal was beggining to leak)and as I had a long drive home i decided to get it changed over there as its covered by the warranty anyway, so I got the dealer in Lincoln to do the job. They dis-connected the battery to do the job, but obviously didnt plug it into the test book afterwards as it developed a flat spot just in the mid range and felt slightly down on power on the top end, I didnt notice this straight away as I was concentrating or noticing the difference the clutch master cylinder had made. However I did notice eventually and by then thought something else had decided to start to go wrong, so into my dealer here I went, I needed to put in the warranty claim anyway.
The mechanic and I were going over the car, checking all the oil levels, replaced the fan belt as it had become perished slightly and was squeeling when cold (only in the uk tho, not cold enough here) and looking for any problems visually that may be apparent, anyway none found, then the mechanic asked if the battery had been dis-connected, I then realised that it had been dis-connected in the uk, so we plugged her into the testbook and he went through the injector calibration process as I had a feeling the flat spot was down to fuelling, ie stuffed injector, hey presto perfect again, flatspots gone
I think that its outrageous that a dealer trained mechanic (specially in the uk, you expect a more proffessional approach tbh) would not realise he needed to do after dis-connecting the battery ! no doubt because they like to charge 75 quid an hour to put it on the testbook. If i were paranoid I would think that was a money making exercise as I was bound to come back at some point to find out what was wrong and chances are by then I wouldnt put the blame on them and maybe even have to pay for a tune up !!!
Here in portugal the dealer doenst mind if you go and watch the service being done, in fact now I've me the mechanics I sort of become an assistant the piece of mind I get from knowing that all was done properly and all trim put back properly afterwards is fantastic."
I had the battery of a few weeks ago (probably around when this started) to clean and service the starter motor.
-
That quote suggests that after disconnecting the battery in a TD5 you need to put it on a testbook to make it run properly after??
Sounds like rubbish! I've changed batteries, done lots of wiring and bits in my 110 before i got the 90 and never had any problems after disconnecting for short or long periods of time.
-
Well I've had the battery on and off lots of time, but when I did the Starter Motor, I had it disconnected for several hours, normally it would only be a couple of minutes.
-
Rovacom lite is only about £500 for just the Td5 sections.... plus the cost of the laptop.
Just been looking and I would need to spend £1000+ for the modules for mine. Basic + TD5 + ABS + Alarm. Then obviously I need to buy the laptop aswell. I realise I could start with just the engine, and build up, but sooner or later I'd want the complete system. At that price it is a none starter.
-
Well it wasn't the battery being off. Had LR Assiastance out to it today, cos I got totally p*** off with it. The guy found faults on both the air flow and the crankshaft sensors. And a fault on injector 1. He cleared these. Checked the connections to them. Then I took it for a test drive. Fault is still there.
We then plugged his kit in again to find no faults registered!!!! His gut feeling was a faulty fuel pump. But wasn't sure. And neither of us could understand why the problem only occurs when the vehicle is warm.
Looks like I'm going to have to take it to the dealers :cry:
-
Been watching this thread with interest, as the Disco does not seem as quick as it once was (but then a Td5 auto is no rocket ship anyway !).
I've had the battery off both the Disco and 110, and never had to get the injectors recalibrated - think that might be a red herring.
But, a few weeks back the fuel pump in the Disco failed (got a lift home on a flat bed) - the AA reckoned on the auto box being shot, but after being home for 10 mins it dawned on me that I could not hear the whine of the fuel pump, sure enough fitted a new (spare that I had in the garage) pump and normal service was resumed. Apparently, the pump is a two-stage jobbie, there's a bit of low pressure (hence the truck would start ok, idle ok, and drive in first up to 15mph), but as it was the high pressure side of my pump that was knacked (no whine), it wouldn't go any faster.
Perhaps it is your pump - on the Disco you take out the boot carpet, remove a plate in the floor and out comes the pump. Just re-read your original post, hell knows how you get to the pump on a 110 - there's no nice little access plate in the boot floor !!!!!
Jim
-
Think it's a drop the tank job, but it is now a dealer problem. I've admitted I've done all I can, and handed it over. I'm not happy about it, but let's see what they say.
-
Is it still under warranty, or are you parting with hard earned readys ?
I did have another thought (not sure if it's been mentioned yet) - what about the turbo/intercooler pipes delaminating/collapsing. I've heard that as the engine sucks in more air, the pipes can close down on themselves, though other than swapping them out, I can't see how you'd look at them when you were ragging along at 50mph !!!
Jim
-
I did have another thought (not sure if it's been mentioned yet) - what about the turbo/intercooler pipes delaminating/collapsing. I've heard that as the engine sucks in more air, the pipes can close down on themselves, though other than swapping them out, I can't see how you'd look at them when you were ragging along at 50mph !!!
Jim
If this was the case then you'd be getting a lot of black smoke (usually)....
As the engine would be overfuelling.
Ian
-
Think it's a drop the tank job.
Yup, to get to the TD5 Fuel pump it's a tank off job :roll:
Dave
-
Is it still under warranty, or are you parting with hard earned readys ?
I did have another thought (not sure if it's been mentioned yet) - what about the turbo/intercooler pipes delaminating/collapsing. I've heard that as the engine sucks in more air, the pipes can close down on themselves, though other than swapping them out, I can't see how you'd look at them when you were ragging along at 50mph !!!
Jim
Still under Warranty, so they're problem now, sadly I've had to admit defeat for now.
-
[quote="drum
Still under Warranty, so they're problem now, sadly I've had to admit defeat for now.[/quote]
It's not defeat - you would have sussed it eventually, it would have just taken a while............let's see how long it takes the techs with all their computer diags - and please, let us know what the problem was !
Jim
-
It's not defeat - you would have sussed it eventually, it would have just taken a while............let's see how long it takes the techs with all their computer diags - and please, let us know what the problem was !
It is to me, I hate taking it to the dealer, mainly due to past experience with one of the other local stealers.
BTW they're computer diag, say no fault!!!
-
Well they rang me 5:55 to say all they can find is a blocked air-filter. I refrained from asking if that was the K&N that I cleaned not more than 2 weeks ago, and haven't off-roaded since. Wouldn't wait for me to collect it either :(
Surely a blocked Air Filter, would be loss of power generally, not retarding (like a rev-limiter) when hot??
-
The only time I had a problem with a K&N was when I over-oiled it after cleaning it..........the truck smoked and ran like a b1tch for a while, but I didn't notice any loss of power.
Do you get the feeling that the stealers are weeing in the wind ?
Jim
-
Got it back today, perfomance seems better (with the same old filter in, cos they have been instructed not to change it), but the vacuum pump has mysturiously stopped working while in at the dealers.
That said I didn't really give it a good run, cos I didn't fancy bombing along at 70+ with series brakes.
So it's gone straight back.
-
did you get the problem sorted out?
-
Yes, but I didn't get a satisfactory answer.
The problem has gone away, they blamed a clogged air-filter. They were instructed not to change the air-filter (or clean it), cos I would sort it out. Cos obviously a blocked air filter ain't warranty and I'm not paying £100 per hour for someone else to do it. But if the same air filter is in it (Which it is, or atleast it's still a KN Filter), how come the problem has gone away?? :? :?
Also don't you think that when I was messing with air-flow meters, and checking the sensors (there is one in the Air box) that I would have noticed the blocked filter :?:
Vacuum pump was fixed under warranty (whole new alternator job on one of these)
I then got it back for a week, and I blew a cv joint on the way to work. They have now had it 3 weeks to change an CV Joint!!! I reckon the job is 4 hours if you do it by the books, reading each step as you go.
At the moment I'm so fed up with the TD5, that I bought a 1985 NA Diesel. which is a nice Computer\Warranty free zone. :D