Mud-club
Vehicle & Technical => Series Land Rovers => Topic started by: stratie on September 23, 2008, 16:00:33
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Old fella down the road has got an s111. When you put into low box, it jerks. The wheels spin, then move normal, then spin again.
When you push the yellow leaver down it's even worse.
I was told that the diff's could be wound up.
Any one have any info for me?
The fella need's his landie to drive down a very muddy rutty farm lane. He's a smashing chap, so i would like to help him out. He's been driving landies for 40 years, but has allways got the garage to sort out his problems. What with the credit crunch, money is tight, so i thought i would do my bit and lend a hand.
Cheers
Brend.
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Bit confused by...
When you put into low box, it jerks. The wheels spin, then move normal, then spin again.
When you push the yellow leaver down it's even worse.
It should already be in 4wd when in low box; pushing down the yellow lever shouldn't have any affect....... :-k
Does it drive ok in 2wd? What about in low box with the front prop removed?
At the moment my instinct says it something in the transfer box, maybe front drive output related.
Oh one left field thought!..........how long has he had this LR. Someone has put a RR diff in the back axle and left a std Series LR diff in the front have they?! Different ratios and might give this effect?
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The easiest way to unwind one is to get it on a wet or very loose surface. That should at least rule out a diff being wound up! I'm trying to remember how the levers work on the series machines so correct me if I'm wrong!
Red lever down = low box 4x4
Yellow lever backward = 4x4 in high ratio
to return to 4x2 high ration you bring the yellow lever back then forwards again, and the red lever pops up again.
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Andy, the fella has had the landie from new, and yes it drives spot on in 2wd.
Crazymac, i was told to drive it on wet grass ect, but i was told to drive it around in circles?
As for the levers.....Red goes back, and yellow goes down. Not that it matters, i know what you ment :D
Cheers for the info guy's, i'll give it all ago.
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How or why is it poss for a diff to wind up? If i can understand how and why, then i might get a better understanding of whats up with Norms landie.
Any one know?
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How or why is it poss for a diff to wind up? If i can understand how and why, then i might get a better understanding of whats up with Norms landie.
Any one know?
Anyone :huh:
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When a series vehicle is in "high" ratio it is running in rear wheel drive and any bends etc allow any transmission windup to dissapate. However when you engage Low ratio you link all 4 wheels together (similar to the difflock in modern landrovers) so on hard surfaces there is nowhere for the wind up to go which creates tension in the diffs.
At least, thats MY understanding!!
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the easiest way to unwind a trasmission is to jack a wheel up on each axle, it will also help you diagnose any issues in the transmission. in 2wd the front wheel should spin freely along with the front prop. the back wheel (if the hanbrake is off and out of gear) should do the same, but it'll turn the transfer box too.
in 4wd, turn either wheel and it should turn both props and the the other jacked up wheel as they are physically linked by a dog clutch in the front section of the transfer box.
if that doesn't happen it could be the axle diffs knackered, jack up the back axle and check for normal operation and then the front, with the truck out of gear and the handbrake off (wheels chocked obviously)
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Nice one fella's, cheers :D
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As he had a diff change done on the front axle?
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Not as far as i know Kev, but then saying that he may not remember, he's in his 70's.
Why, what are you thinking mate?
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I had a half shaft go on my l/w, this year on the back
While I was sorting it out, I had the chance to try it with a rangy diff, instead of the series one, to see how it was (its got a turner head on so lots of power and too low range)
It worked fine, knowing as long as I didn't engage 4wd I was ok, but later I was doing some welding, and ran it up onto some ramps, stuck it in 4wd for safety while up there
WHen I drove it off, you can imagine the slip, with a lower range (series) front diff and a higher rangy one on the back, it gave me a reminder, must do the front diff swap too :oops:
Luckily it was only a few feet on gravel so no harm done, but I wondered what the hell had happened for a second though
So the thought was perhaps as the diffs do look the same and fir, he may have had one changed and fitted the wrong one
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@Hobbit....diff swap. Thats what I thought :)
@stratie....best bet is to remove rear diff and count pinion rotations against one crown wheel rotation.
....or remove front prop (as suggested) and try in low range; basically to eliminate the gearbox/transfer box from equation :)
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Kev, im sure he hasn't had a diff change.....i could be wrong, so i'll go thru all his paper work from the garage and check. I'll ring them up and ask if need be.
Andy, i'll get the spanners out and have a play.
Thanks for the "top" advice guy's :D
Cheers
Brend.
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Could you not jack one side of the vehicle up (by which I mean both wheels on one side) whilst in 4wd, and mark a point on each tyre, then turn one of the two wheels one full rotation. The other one would also turn, and assuming the diffs are the same will turn the mark on the tyre also one full rotation. If the diffs are different then the mark will not end up in the same position......?
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I'll give it ago mate....infact i'll give any thing ago, been scratching me head for the last few days.
I have been told so far. To unwind the diff/diffs......
Drive on wet grass......
In reverse.
Round and round in circle's.
In a straight line.
??????????
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Never heard so much interesting nonsense, what makes you think the diff are able to be wound up?
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what makes you think the diff are able to be wound up?
Thats what i have been trying to find out mick.
At the moment i haven't the time to start pulling it apart, so im going with what a few landrover owners in my area have told me...ie the diffs are wound up.
At the moment the old guy that owns it, is using my truck to get up and down the track to his yard. So im keen to sort his out asap.
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Diff wind up only happens when your in four wheel drive, and the difference in tyre diametres causes slight wind up due to no central diff, soon as you move back to 2wd wind up can no longer happen, if as you say you get the problem only when in low and 4wd in high sounds to me like a tooth missing from the front diff or somthing along thous lines, let us know how you get on :grin:
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Sussed it at long last.
Jacked up a corner and span the wheel a few time's.
Job is, how they say........A good um :D
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Sussed it at long last.
Jacked up a corner and span the wheel a few time's.
Job is, how they say........A good um :D
what was the problem then ?
Gordon
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The problem was.............i spoke to soon :lol: It's still doing it. B*g*r!
I jacked the drivers side front wheel and put a mark on the tyre.
I did the same with the rear wheel on the passenger side.
I gave the front wheel one full turn (so the mark on the tyre whent back to the same place as it started from) and the mark on the rear wheel is no where near the piont it started from?
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You could do similar and count prop shaft rotations for one wheel rotation for both ends. This will tell you what the diff ratios are.
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You could do similar and count prop shaft rotations for one wheel rotation for both ends. This will tell you what the diff ratios are.
Ya clever git, why didn't i think of that :oops:
Cheers mate, i'll give it ago.
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It may be worth checking that there isn't 1 old tyre and 3 new or different sizes front to rear (they may say the same size but if they are remolds and different make they probably wont be the same size)
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All 4 tyres are good mate.
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Hi.
When you say "put the yellow lever down its worse" do you mean in high or low range (or both)
If it drives ok in high but not low then id suspect transfer box, e.g. stripped gears. If it drives poorly in high and low in 4wd then im still not 100% sure!
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When you say "put the yellow lever down its worse" do you mean in high or low range (or both)
If it drives ok in high but not low then id suspect transfer box, e.g. stripped gears. If it drives poorly in high and low in 4wd then im still not 100% sure!
I pretty much said that in the second post in this thread :roll: :)
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When you say "put the yellow lever down its worse" do you mean in high or low range (or both)
If it drives ok in high but not low then id suspect transfer box, e.g. stripped gears. If it drives poorly in high and low in 4wd then im still not 100% sure!
I pretty much said that in the second post in this thread :roll: :)
You did as well :wink:
In two wheel drive....Spot on.
Pull the red lever back......The wheels jerk and spin.
Push yellow lever down.....You can drive for two maybe three feet, and then it's like the brakes are coming on. It slow's up and stops.
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Now try that without the front prop on and then we'll know if it's the diff or the transfer box :)
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Sorry what I was asking is what happens if you push the yellow lever in (4wd engage) with the red lever forward (high range).
I diddt see a reply to andy B's post on that one. (which I agree with) Currently my unerstanding is you are putting it into low and then putting it into 4wd but I could just be getting confused.
PS I was in Cirencester yesterday, used to work at QA in the Castle and have a few mates in Ciren.
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Yellow knob should not stay down if pushed down when the red lever is in neutral or fully back, as in neutral or low range the transferbox engages four wheel drive automatically.
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Now try that without the front prop on and then we'll know if it's the diff or the transfer box :)
Okey dokey sir, im on it.....well i will be after mw weetabix :D
I'll let you know how i get on in an hour or 5.
Cheers mucker.
Carbore, i remember playing in that castle (when it was empty) when i were a nipper. Creepy i tell ya.
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Ok the front prop is now off. I stuck it in low box and drove up and down the drive, and it all seem's fine.
So i think it's safe to say that it aint the transfer box.
I found some numbers on the diffs....
Front...22 57
RC1848cA-
W8G 27-12
Rear....18 E
476133
JWSG 27-12
Dont quote on them number's, but thats the best i could make out.
I guess the next thing to do is pull the front diff out?
Will i have to drain the oil first?
Thanks for all your help fella's.
You lot Rock :wink:
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I dont understand why disconnecting the front prop would rule out the transfer box. If the front drive on the transfer box is out of synch with the rear drive (i.e. knackered) then disconecting that prop will make any symptoms go away
Or am I wrong (im no expert on these things!)
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I dont know any thing, any more :lol:
All this just trying to help some old fella out. Still, thats what landrover owners do :wink:
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The transferbox operates with a dog clutch. It either engages or does not. I do not think it would give different rates of drive from either end, and the transferbox is bloody strong (arguably stronger than any of the others that were in Land Rovers).
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If im correct in thinking it has no centre diff (and I could be wrong) then it shouldnt be driven on hard surfaces in 4WD as it causes transmission windup. With no centre diff its slippy surfaces only, same as my lux. Sounds to me like theres no fault......
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You can drive on hard surfaces when in four wheel drive, but if you corner then the transmission may begin to "wind up". It's said in the manual that low range may be needed when pulling a heavy load uphill, and that by doing so you engage four wheel drive so run the risk of increased tyre wear more than anything.
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If im correct in thinking it has no centre diff (and I could be wrong) then it shouldnt be driven on hard surfaces in 4WD as it causes transmission windup. With no centre diff its slippy surfaces only, same as my lux. Sounds to me like theres no fault......
Well some thing isn't happy, and it's all pointing to the front diff. Look's like it's going to have to come out so i can take a butchers at it.
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It's fixed..........at long last :lol:
After trying every thing (well all most every thing) i took the truck over to my mates farm, and ragged it around a wet field in two wheel drive. Hey presto, it worked :D
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Stuck in 4wd then?
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Stuck in 4wd then?
No mate, it would seem that the front diff was wound up.
I got it over to my mates farm, and his dad who has been around land rovers for many years said....
You can try it in reverse (on wet grass) but you still, but if you go to far you still run the risk of winding the diff back up.
Then he asked if i had jacked up four corners at the same time, then spin the wheels. I told him i had only done one at a time.
He said to drive it around (the wet grassy field) turning from left to right and get the wheels spinning.
So i did. I guess i must of span around said field for about 10 minutes. Hard left,hard right hard left hard rifgt ect ect.
When i got back to the yard, he told me to try the low range (red lever) and hey presto, it worked. No more jerk jerk jerk.
The he said to try 4 wheel drive (push yellow lever down) spot on :D
The old boy has now got the truck back, and i have now got my LWT back.....Happy days!
He asked me how much he owed me? I said....you owe me nothing mate ;)
Then we sat down to a nice hot brew, he then said.....
Im 72 years old (he looks no older than 50, but he moves around very slow) my driving days are all most over. If and when i cant drive no more, would you be happy to take on my land rover?
I was gob smacked.
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From what i can gather from this thread, i would say that one diff is a different ration than the other, this would give all the problems you say.
high 4x4 would be worse as the wheels would be turning faster! :twisted: