Mud-club
Vehicle & Technical => Defender => Topic started by: extreme90 on January 30, 2007, 21:47:50
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lets nock it around the room
been thinking for a while :lol:
turbo on mine kicks in at around 1600ish so anything below im a N/A
:?
so how about a extra blower :lol:
supercharger for low down revvs and then the turbo kicks in higher up the rev range, so ive got constant power not all or nothing
ino some years back nissan did this to a micra 800cc only a few were made, and a 911turbo couldnt keep up with them :shock: , and i aint joking niether,
a dear freind of mine who restores porsches as a living told me about them today and it got me thinking :?
just seein what you guys think :lol:
ian....mike....
dan
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you really need to get a Girlfriend i think,you have faaaar to much time on your hands & faaaaar to many spare 200's kicking about
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:lol: shooosh no i dont :twisted:
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YOu do all the development, tell us all about how wonderful it is, then we'll all be doing it!!
There's no reason why it shouldn't work, but fuelling might be awkward with a normal pump, electronic injection i suspect would be better, but the thing i like about my 200 is how simple it is...!!
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is there any need? ;)
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is there any need? ;)
yup :wink: to have a constant even amount of power, not abit at low down then [mcuk] off at 1600 and above
higher real low down torque figures ect ect
afink im gonna rack mr porsche brains tomorrow when he nips in
dan
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i like your style, ill give you that
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afink am gonna pay apracing a visit tomorrow night and pinch that supercharger that he offered me for a ride out in me 90 :twisted:
and then fettle with the dead engine on the bench :twisted:
playtime :twisted:
just linking it all together :?
dan :?
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cant be tooo hard danni come on!
wat you thinkin of takin the suercharger off? how big is a mini one?
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I think the Mini one would be too small, they're only 1.6ltr, and it'd have to be capable of flowing enough air to feed a 2.5ltr diesel at pressure..... even with a tiny pulley on it i don't think it's work, you might end up with the blades spinning so fast they don't do anything at-all.... (there's a word for that that i can't remember)!!
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no need. tweek your motor just right and you'll have nearly all peak power on tap at almost instant response. my truck doesnt smoke for no reason!!!
and too much will just rip your drivetrain to pieces!
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errrm this charger ive been offered was the one off his 2.8 capri that he races with :lol:
he changes um every 5 months afink he said :roll:
cant remember now
:lol:
its not small so should be interesting at the pressure it pumps out :roll:
early stages yet, alot of work involved not as easy as it sounds theres alot of fettling involed
dan
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no need. tweek your motor just right and you'll have nearly all peak power on tap at almost instant response. my truck doesnt smoke for no reason!!!
and too much will just rip your drivetrain to pieces!
like mine then 141 bhp at the fly without the black smoke
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no need. tweek your motor just right and you'll have nearly all peak power on tap at almost instant response. my truck doesnt smoke for no reason!!!
and too much will just rip your drivetrain to pieces!
you put jimmy bond to shame matey ;) looks good with those new wings on by teh way!
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no need. tweek your motor just right and you'll have nearly all peak power on tap at almost instant response. my truck doesnt smoke for no reason!!!
and too much will just rip your drivetrain to pieces!
thats why 1 ive got mine tuned and mine produces a touch of black smoke :roll: honest only a touch :roll: :twisted:
and i keep a week link in the drivetrain :wink:
and another thing :lol: :lol:
i aint bothered :lol: :lol:
its got to be worth doing just to see the outcome, its not for onroad its to bring more avilable power offroad
hey if it dont work it doesnt work nuffink lost
if it works it works
2 options :lol:
dan
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Surely a hybrid T-28 with a smaller comprssor housing , cut back blades,and 360degree bearing would give more poke lower down sure you'd lose maybe 3-5bhp at the top of your rev range but thats not really important in an off roader is it? especially a 200 where most of the grunt is delivered low down?
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Here is my thoery --- But before i start , I know in the jet ski world if the impellor spins too fast its called cavitation, Not sure if its the same for air related masses ??
Anyhow, I digress----- I would say that a turbo charger sucks in as much air as needed in an increasing amount (as the boost rises) And a supercharger is set to increase in a steady increase, ---- so if a supercharger was coupled up to a turbo i reckon there would be some serious fuel/air ratio problems, something like an initial surge from the s/charger but as the turbo spins up and asks for a huge rush of air , the charger would not be able to supply, But i reckon a variable pulley on the charger could sort it out, But then were getting very serious indeed, Any how its just my thoughts, if someone blows them out of the water so be it, I have plenty of other thoughts in there to go yet. P.S i did bring this type of question up at a visit to jaguars HQ when i worked for them, the question was Kinda like why does the "normal V8 have VVT (variable valve timing) and the supercharged one doesnt ?? Didnt get a proper answer though, So i made up my own thoery/thought as stated above
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ive looked into it a touch, but even so the roller bearings still have lag in them, not alot but they do
what i want to do is cut out the delay between off boost and on boost
options...
supercharged low rpm...turbocharged high rpm
twin turbo, 1 little doddy turbo of a new ford fiesta and a std lr turbo..
little turbo on boost at idle rpm :shock: big turbo interveens when max pressure achieved by little turbo
or just 1 little puney turbo that is already spun up at idle rpm
so the slightest of throttle and youve got boost
i dunno, its a whole new can of worms with endless options
or to hell with it and fit a gmv8
all the torque youll ever need at idle rpm :shock:
dan
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Anti lag? dunno how do-able it is on a diesl but its bound to result it big clouds of black smoke and boost noise- 8) 8) 8) 8) 8)
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Here is my thoery --- But before i start , I know in the jet ski world if the impellor spins too fast its called cavitation, Not sure if its the same for air related masses ??
cavitation is when you get air pockets trapped inbetween the impellor, so it revs up and you get no where cos its moving air instead of water
like a clutch slipping on a car
likewise with outboards/sterndrives with propellors, throw it into a to tight bend it traps air and engine scream you get no where :lol:
sorry work on boats :roll:
back to thread :roll: :lol:
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if it works on a 800cc micra itll work on a 200 :lol:
the main theory behind it to keep it simple is to cut out the delay between on boost and off boost
as you accelerate, you start moving then there that sudden kick from the turbo....right ?......the aim is to get rid of that
ill speak to the porcshe man t morra and report back :wink:
as ino his own personal 911 has this system and it works :wink:
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what exhaust u got on yours btw?
got a free flowing system on mine & it spools up no problem & quickly
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What about the VNT that is found on the HS 2.8?
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Dont hold up much hope for the rest of my thoery/thoughts then #-o
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Dont hold up much hoe for the rest of my thoery/thoughts then #-o
:lol: sorryyyyyyyy :cry: :cry:
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No worries I have LLLLLLOOOOAAADDDDDSSSS more of them tucked away up there,
And i wonder why i have trouble sleeping at night 8-[
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pmsl :lol:
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I think all I can say is dribble.
Seriously tho, i'd love to get more power low down with the work I do on mine, but I have it tuned currently for max power on the road, would be nice to have maybe a twin turbo setup, I dunno...
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As already mentioned....
Go for a VNT!!! :wink:
I've got one to go on my 300tdi at some point soon!! :twisted:
Ian
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Antilag on a deisel..... now that *should* be interesting. If you've seen a performance petrol doign it you'll know about the loud crack and flames. On a deisel, probobly not gonna acheive a gret deal and produce mushroom clouds :)
I have heard of NOS being used to do Antilag, I'm not convinced that would work on a deisel. The Ottinger/Ralliart system uses a combination of a solenoid to wind the trottle wide open and a injector before the turbo.
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i do however have a solutiuon to your problem,
couple more lines should do it :wink:
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now my boss to cure the lag on his 911 turbo has a nos system with smart controller
basicaly nos is only used at low rpm and as soon as the turbo kicks in the nos fades out
but thats a flat 6 not a inline 4 pot tractor engine :lol:
ive got a answer aswel mike
v8gm derv :lol:
who was it with the propane injection mike ?? white90 ??
ian report back on the VNT, dont no a gr8 deal about them tho really
my minds swung to to little doddy turbos working together via flapper valve in manifold like a vetus watever it is :roll: forgotten now and i work on boats :oops:
dan
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See Here (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Variable_geometry_turbocharger) :wink:
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the new vw golf GT has a 1.4 engine thats both supercharged and turbocharged - pushes out 170bhp.
need a decent pulley set up to run the supercharger from the crank pulley.
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Steve lloyd used to run a 90 with lpg injection but i think it was a 300.Went like f*** though :shock: .Looked at doing it to mine but in the end just went mad with fuelling and boost :wink:
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o ello stranger :lol:
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Steve lloyd used to run a 90 with lpg injection but i think it was a 300.Went like f*** though :shock: .Looked at doing it to mine but in the end just went mad with fuelling and boost :wink:
was just about to make a poke about LPG.
fantastic performance boost on diesels. burn about 95% of whats in your bores rather than about 40%. easy answer if you are that desperate for more go.
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no i aint really after more power 2BH simon the 200tdis with full width cooler has more than enough power and im sure you'll agree
just thought it be funny to have summat stupid bolted to the engine :lol: whilst still experimenting to see the outcome :wink:
dan
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in that case then, gas, permanently. possibly a 5th injector (on a max throttle switch) but you may have troubles with it knocking low down in revs.
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no was thinking twin turbo :lol:
besides i got more spare 200's than land rover have :lol:
im race building one :lol:
everything balanced measured cut down steams everything
and gonna put that into a std road going 90 with full width cooler and itll go like a rocket :lol:
i cant wait :lol:
dont think it be so good towing tho :?
:P
dan
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cant see why two turbos. wont spool up as quick as one. and you'll only run say 25psi peak with modified crowns. be as well with a hybrid T25. spin up at mega speed and still be just about on limit of 25psi. would be sweet like that thinking about it....
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but at 22-25 psi the head gaskets only last about 2.5k or a month or 2 :lol:
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no
1 big 1 small turbo :wink:
just the small 1 running at low rpm, and quite litraly at 800rpm itll be spinning up
look under the bonnet of a new ford fiesta, 1 small turbo...spins litrally AS your pulling off
but 1 doddy 1 wont provide 1+ bar flat out only around half a bar
thats where the 2nd bigger one comes in
so small low speed so getting pleanty of boost at 1100
high speed keep my normal boost pressure
there is a car that runs this set up but i cant for the life of me remember what it is
dan
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Wire ring the block and wind the boost up to 30psi and get some stronger head bolts made up so you can torque the fcuker down abit more too :shock:
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:lol:
studded :wink:
dan
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do you reckon the pump could be wound up far enough to provide enough fuel at 30psi?
How cool would that sound :shock: :shock: 8) 8)
be some nice clouds of black under load too ooh I love diesels running lots of boost 8)
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like this 8) 8) 8) 8)
http://video.google.co.uk/url?vidurl=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.youtube.com%2Fwatch%3Fv%3DkBT94obAUt0&docid=-8064541883348528419&ev=v&esrc=sr10&usg=AL29H23EFejbzPCfqSBCeNqJ3_U-RI-VNw
or this -team vatra
http://video.google.co.uk/url?vidurl=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.youtube.com%2Fwatch%3Fv%3Dt2Z5596h8P8&docid=-5231359880364691201&ev=v&esrc=sr2&usg=AL29H21wf-nI7-MotaaZgrZiukJ_m0CUJg
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I was just about to go to bed looks like I'll be up for a while now watchin some tracctor pullin on youtube -what an awesome sport 8) 8)
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I was just about to go to bed looks like I'll be up for a while now watchin some tracctor pullin on youtube -what an awesome sport 8) 8)
never mind tractor pullin, get your arse back round mine and cut some more steel cut up. :lol: :D
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Over fueling just a wee bit there then? :lol:
Such a nice sport. not too keen on the turbo lag though seems you a have to rev them to a few K before owt happens. But then thats what happens to big turbos.
I'm with porny on this one a VNT is the way to go.
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do you reckon the pump could be wound up far enough to provide enough fuel at 30psi?
How cool would that sound
be some nice clouds of black under load too ooh I love diesels running lots of boost
It can with bigger internals :wink:
Supercharging.... is ok but does sap power. And I don’t think it would work with a v belt, most require a serpentine belt.
Twin turbo, lots of effort and need to make sure you don't over speed the smaller turbo... sequential turbo's are nothing that new. But will require a custom manifold, and you’ve got the problem of packaging.
Packaging wise, a VNT makes more sense. :wink:
Boost pressure… you’ll find the rings and pistons will be the next weak point. A wired block (as already mentioned) will make head gaskets last a bit longer.
spin up at mega speed and still be just about on limit of 25psi
If you try to run more than 17psi on a T25 it becomes very inefficient, a hybrid is slightly different, but not much.
Ian
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no
1 big 1 small turbo :wink:
just the small 1 running at low rpm, and quite litraly at 800rpm itll be spinning up
look under the bonnet of a new ford fiesta, 1 small turbo...spins litrally AS your pulling off...dan
ah, compounded turbos, sort of scanias 14L470 motor. real nice for pulling heavy loads. now i see...... thinking
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Is it I belive that a stadard TDI turbo can go to about 20 PSI then it actually restricts it self as it can't spin any faster. Also thinking about it what happens when you shut the throttle off OK a Diesel as a wide ope throttle (i.e. no butterfly) but surely the boost must go somewhere and so would it take a little longer for the engine to throttle back? Else would you have to think about a dump valve to help rid the system of the pressure?
:?
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Is it I belive that a stadard TDI turbo can go to about 20 PSI then it actually restricts it self as it can't spin any faster. Also thinking about it what happens when you shut the throttle off OK a Diesel as a wide ope throttle (i.e. no butterfly) but surely the boost must go somewhere and so would it take a little longer for the engine to throttle back? Else would you have to think about a dump valve to help rid the system of the pressure?
:?
BRRRRRRRRRRRRMMMMMMMMMMMMMMM-TSHHHHHHH? :shock:
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Is it I belive that a stadard TDI turbo can go to about 20 PSI then it actually restricts it self as it can't spin any faster. Also thinking about it what happens when you shut the throttle off OK a Diesel as a wide ope throttle (i.e. no butterfly) but surely the boost must go somewhere and so would it take a little longer for the engine to throttle back? Else would you have to think about a dump valve to help rid the system of the pressure?
:?
disconected the wastegate on my tdi to race a saxo & it pumped out 24psi o boost, smoked the shaxo & went of the lights spinning the wheels :lol: :lol:
1/4 mile here we come 8)
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bet it made a nice whine ;)
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Dan,why not try a merc slk supercharger?nice little unit,self contained and both inlet and exhaust on same side so it would be easy to put onto a 200,would just need a pulley making(or several different size pulleys for different BOOOOOOST :shock: )
Just a thought :-k :oops:
On the subject of dump valves,can one be fitted to a tdi?.If so how does it get a vacuum :?
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yea they can, but its a bit pointless on a tdi really expecialy with a full width cooler
dump valves work best on petrol afink
dan
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Yes but they sound cool :oops:
Ill get my coat
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dump valves on a tdi is so easy
need a dump valve,solenoid valve (12v) & a micro switch,
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ive got a kit right here :lol:
never gonna fit it tho :lol:
doesnt need one
altho it would be funny :? hmmmm
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ive got a kit right here :lol:
never gonna fit it tho :lol:
doesnt need one
altho it would be funny :? hmmmm
Where from,how much?? gotta know :shock: ,need something to [mcuk] the eurobox drivers off now i aint got a side exit exhaust :twisted:
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you can buy a kit for the dervdoctor
but i got a friend of mine to get all the bits i needed for me, he a racing nut :roll:
cost me 100 quid for all the bits + a ride out in my land rover pmsl
dan
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Hmm :-k
May be worth it just for the look on peoples faces :wink:
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http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/The-Derv-Doctor-LTD-306-TURBO-DIESEL-DUMP-VALVE_W0QQitemZ190077584709QQihZ009QQcategoryZ72205QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem
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http://www.zen19051.zen.co.uk/run1.mpg
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:(music):
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reckon i might fit one just to annoy the chavs ;) can you use any old valve?
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mazda RX7 used a twin turbo:
it one turbo, but with 2 sets of blades. at low revs, when producing low amounts of exhaust gasses, these drive a little fan with the blades angled to be most efficient at spinning with low exhaust gasses. as the engine speed increases so do the amount of exhaust gasses, and the fan/blades cos of the fixed angle becomes less efficient at driving the turbo. get to this point and the turbo directs the gases to a bigger fan better suited to lots of exhaust gases and thus = lots of power throughout rev range.
or supercharge it and chuck the turbo.
remember bigger turbo = more bhp, but at expense of lag.
IIRC antilag system works by dumping fuel into exhaust (thus combusting) before turbo, increasing exhaust gases and spinning turbo faster. seems way more complicated to do this then muck about with turbos, particularly if youve alraedy got the know how.
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Anti lag in genral shouldnt work on a diesel,
as you are dumping more fuel in to get the tubby spinning when u fuel a TDi up thats what you are doing from the outset,adding more fuel, problem with a derv is when you add more fuel it runns hotter,hotter = melted bits
on a petrol its the other way about.more fuel = cooler,run it lean & melts things
this has to be considered when you try & use petrol tuning on a diesel.
TBH some of the suggestions so far are bloody hard ways of making more oomph & a rather long drawn out process for not a lot of gain,
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Hmm :lol:
http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/EATON-M112-JAGUAR-XK...1QQcmdZViewItem
You know you want to Dan :twisted:
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CAR Nissan Micra Super Turbo 1990
ENGINE Standard configuration; 930cc MA09-ERT double charged (Turbo AND Supercharged).
Compression ratio 7.7:1 Max torque 13.3kg @ 4800 RPM.
Max power at 6200 RPM. 0.7 bar boost. (all factory specs)
TRANSMISSION Standard box and limited slip diff, Nismo Clutch
SUSPENSION standard
WHEELS standard 13 inch alloys!
TYRES 185/70/13`s :O
BRAKES standard
EXTERIOR Standard, (anyone notice that I have not done much yet!)
INTERIOR Standard March ST interior, with bucket seats leather steering wheel, turbo dials etc...
PERFORMANCE 0-60 7.5
1/4 Mile 15.5
Top speed NA
Max Power (BHP) 110
Those porches must be quite slow then, no wonder they dont keep up with the kit car :)
Matthew
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if you want to get rid of turbo lag a variable geometry turbo is the way, most modern diesels have these fitted and believe me they work. Somebody recently told me a turbo of a sprinter van can be fitted to a 200tdi with some mods though not sure how you would rig up the valve to operate the adjustable vanes .