Mud-club

Chat & Social => The Bar - General Chat => Topic started by: robpark on July 22, 2006, 16:12:11

Title: Greenpeace - oh what have they become :(
Post by: robpark on July 22, 2006, 16:12:11: As a long time Greenpeace member I received a link to their new anti-4x4 video, designed to coincide with the Motor Show - and it's absolutely horrible. No reasoned argument, no acknowledgement that we live in a free and democratic society - just viscous school playground level name calling. As a consequence I have cancelled my membership of 27 years, and suggested they take a look at http://www.4x4prejudice.org.

I'm very sad and disappointed :cry: that Greenpeace have sunk to this level.

You can watch the video at http://www.greenpeace.org.uk/gasguzzler/?CFID=4614100&CFTOKEN=33282897
Title: Greenpeace - oh what have they become :(
Post by: Edge on July 22, 2006, 16:24:35: Funny video :lol: , just a shame its biased against an innocent type of individual solely on his choice of vehicle.

Greenpeace should lead by example..... get rid of the big ship and force all its members to spend the rest of their lives riding round on 50cc scooters. They wouldn't have many members for very long.
Title: Greenpeace - oh what have they become :(
Post by: Manicminer on July 22, 2006, 16:36:59: Quote from: "TRUG"

Greenpeace should lead by example..... get rid of the big ship <engine> and force all its members to
row the damn thing with a long set of oars each :wink:
Title: Greenpeace - oh what have they become :(
Post by: Penguinius on July 22, 2006, 17:14:37: From the Greenpeace Website " 'Facts' about 4x4s"
Quote
Most of their drivers will never use the all-terrain features that make the cars so criminally irresponsible.

WHAT? Just because a vehicles front wheels are powered or it is designed to go Off road the car becomes 'criminally irresponsible' absolute nonsense, I feel embarassed for the single minded idiot who wrote that.
Title: Greenpeace - oh what have they become :(
Post by: blackbob on July 22, 2006, 17:16:16: According to The Independent, one in seven cars sold in London is now a 4x4

so is one in seven a minority then not by my calculations
so how do you ban 1 in 7 cars
if put to a vote for goverment election 1in 7 is enough to vote you in or out of power
Title: Greenpeace - oh what have they become :(
Post by: bezzabsa on July 22, 2006, 17:59:19: just sent them this email:-

Where in the hell did you get your 'Facts' from?????

So the tax on a 4x4 should be Ã‚Â£1800????? so does that include all the 4x4 jaguars - mercedes - audis, and of course the new Bentley?

Or just the 'obvious' 4x4's like Land rover / Toyota etc????

Obviously you have just decided that the seal clubbing has gone a little out of the public eye, and so have decided to target someone else a little closer to home to save using your fuel guzzling boat!!!

And as for celebrities buying Prius's if you check I think you'll find they own other vehicled too - mainly 4x4's!

I'd love to receive a leaflet with ALL your anti 4x4 spouting on it so I have something to read when I need a good laugh!!!!!!

I really hope that all your members read this drivvle and decide to cancel their membership and also claim a refund!!!

N Mason
Title: Greenpeace - oh what have they become :(
Post by: Edge on July 22, 2006, 18:22:45: Jeeeeez :shock:

Greenpeace actually own a Fleet of Ships :shock: .

Apparently run from their marine headquarters in the Netherlands.
Title: Greenpeace - oh what have they become :(
Post by: BrumLee on July 22, 2006, 18:35:01: Robpark.

Can you as them to look here (http://www.smmt.co.uk/news/newsarchive.cfm?sid=-1&tsid=143&catid=921&maincatid=550&fid=4&fid1=&fid2=&CFID=2458537&CFTOKEN=67673651) for true statics from the Society of Motor Manufacturers and Traders, and ask for their response :wink:

They have angered me so much this is the email I've just sent:

Quote
Dear Sir or Madam

I am a person you are calling a [!expletive deleted!] and/or [ed - prod with a sharp implement] as portrayed in your latest anti 4x4 campaign video and take offence at the malicious name calling level you as an organisation have chosen to stoop too.

As an organisation you have a duty of care to the general public. Harassment, victimisation and incitement to hatred are unwelcome and illegal acts under health and safety law and along with other members of the public you have chosen to call these disparaging names will seek to fund legal advice regarding your anti-social behaviour. There is no law against the freedom of choice which is exercised by people wishing to purchase a mode of transport; there are laws against the unwelcome acts your organisation carry out with your acts.

I am also interested where your organisation gathers facts regarding 4x4 vehicles sold in the UK as there are more family saloons and sports vehicles that are both larger in dimension (length and width) and more polluting. Also can you supply me with statistics from the British Police and UK insurance companies regarding accidents involving 4x4 vehicles (excluding sports performance vehicles) in comparison to your choice of vehicles? You boast you have the statistics, so I would like to see some. My facts and statistics will be gathered from the SMMT and I advise you to point your browser to the following site http://www.smmt.co.uk/news/newsarchive.cfm?sid=-1&tsid=143&catid=921&maincatid=550&fid=4&fid1=&fid2=&CFID=2458537&CFTOKEN=67673651 and choose 4x4s in the category menu.

I would like a rational response to this email or do you just resort to name calling tactics like playground bullies?

Regards

Lee Jones
Birmingham, UK

See if anything comes back :roll:
Title: Greenpeace - oh what have they become :(
Post by: Jas278 on July 22, 2006, 19:24:13: Let them have it Lee...............their organisation has lost face ,they are just a bunch of lost Hippies..........

I too have let them have a little piece of my mind.......
Title: Greenpeace - oh what have they become :(
Post by: Xtremeteam on July 22, 2006, 19:26:12: could have amud-club day out & scuttle one o there ships :lol: :lol:
Title: Greenpeace - oh what have they become :(
Post by: Rangie3.0LtrDan on July 22, 2006, 19:30:19: But dont greenpeace also have a fleet of 110's ;)
Title: Greenpeace - oh what have they become :(
Post by: Edge on July 22, 2006, 20:52:37: Well said Lee =D> =D> =D> =D>.

Shame your not prime minister :wink: .
Title: Greenpeace - oh what have they become :(
Post by: BrumLee on July 22, 2006, 21:33:02: I will be putting pen to paper and writing to the HSE regarding this video. Workplace bullying and anti-social behaviour is their hot topic at the moment, if they let promoting acts such as spitting in someone's beverage because you don't agree with them, then a precedence will be set and all hell will break out :evil:

We need to use the tools that we have to defeat these people now they're overstepping the mark.
Title: Greenpeace - oh what have they become :(
Post by: the loon on July 22, 2006, 23:43:43: not sure if it falls with in there remit but have just made a complaint to the advertising standards agengcy -

http://www.asa.org.uk/asa/

I wish to complain about greenpeaces "alternative motorshow video" I feel this video is discrimitory and desirsory towords 4x4 drivers as it makes frequant referances to inapropriate actions against people who drive 4x4 vechicles. In the video there are instances of spittting in coffee,verbal and physical abuse simply because a person chooses to own and drive a 4x4 vechicle. I take particular issue with the use of strong launguage i.e the word w*****,and p**** when there is no advisory on the websight that this particular video contains adult launguage The video is available at etc etc

perhaps if we all do the same then action will be taken :?:
Title: Greenpeace - oh what have they become :(
Post by: the loon on July 22, 2006, 23:59:22: Quote from: "RedlineMike"
could have amud-club day out & scuttle one o there ships :lol: :lol:

I'm not a fan of the french goverment but have to aplaud them on there anti greenpeace actions.

http://www.greenpeace.org.nz/about/rainbow-warrior.asp
Title: Greenpeace - oh what have they become :(
Post by: Garth on July 23, 2006, 00:16:26: A copy of my e-mail ( Edited for Moderators)

I used to think of Greenpeace as a decent (if not a bit radical) organisation. However after seeing your recent anti 4x4 video I now am of the opinion that you are a bunch of pr**ks (what good for the goose etc.)

That video and the blurb that goes with it is so in-factual that if I was part of your organisation I would be extremely embarrassed by it and would take all measures to distance myself from the pr**k (there's that goose again) that dreamed it up.

You guys and galls have lost the plot and have become vindictive narrow minded pr**ks (bloody geese)

If you were really concerned about emissions you would be directing your resources towards the 1000's of aeroplanes that fly around the world every day that emit the pollutants directly into the upper atmosphere.

Anyway as a closing point I run a 3.9 Range rover classic on LPG so if I was driving it I would have produced less GHE's than the Carbon power station has whilst I have been typing this email.

Mr D Rudd

An EX sympathiser
Title: Greenpeace - oh what have they become :(
Post by: robpark on July 23, 2006, 01:53:00: Thanks for all the interest and supportive comments, I'll certainly post any reply I get from my own email to Greenpeace (though I'll actually be surprised if I get one).
Title: Greenpeace - oh what have they become :(
Post by: the loon on July 23, 2006, 08:47:19: Quote from: "robpark"
Thanks for all the interest and supportive comments, I'll certainly post any reply I get from my own email to Greenpeace (though I'll actually be surprised if I get one).

from past expeariance you should get a reply.I will give greenpeace there due here. Unlike the alliance against urburn4x4s who just burry there heads up there own a**es if anyone from the 4x4 comunity questions there made up random nonsense they claim are polotion saftey statistics
Title: Greenpeace - oh what have they become :(
Post by: BrumLee on July 23, 2006, 12:09:40: Take a look at this (http://www.west-midlands.police.uk/crime-reduction/crime-victim-hate.asp) and if it is a viable option I suggest we all pop down to our local Police Station and claim to be a victim.

I'm sure we have members here that are in the Police force, or work alongside them and can give some information as to any success of reporting 'Hate Crime'. Any takers as Greenpeace in my opinion breached the Public Order Act 1986?

Quote
Public Order Act 1986

Section 5 - Harassment, alarm or distress

(1) A person is guilty of an offence if he -

a) uses threatening, abusive or insulting words or behaviour, or disorderly behaviour. or

b) displays any writing, sign or other visible representation which is threatening, abusive or insulting, within the hearing or sight of a person likely to be caused harassment, alarm or distress thereby

(2) An offence under this section may be committed in a public or a private place, except that no offence is committed where the words or behaviour are used, or the writing, sign or other visible representation is displayed, by a person inside a dwelling and the other person is also inside that or another dwelling.

(3) It is a defence for the accused to prove -

a) That he had no reason to believe that there was any person within hearing or sight who was likely to be caused harassment, alarm or distress, or

b) That he was inside a dwelling and had no reason to believe that the words or behaviour used, or the writing, sign or other visible representation displayed, would be heard or seen by a person outside that or any other dwelling, or

c) That his conduct was reasonable

(4) A constable may arrest without warrant if -

a) He engages in offensive conduct which the constable warns him to stop, and

b) He engages in further offensive conduct immediately or shortly after the warning

(5) In subsection (4) above 'offensive conduct' means conduct the constable reasonably suspects to constitute an offence under this section, and the conduct mentioned in paragraph (a) and the further conduct need not be of the same nature

(6) A person guilty of an offence under this section is liable on summary conviction to a fine not exceeding level 3 on the standard scale.
Title: Greenpeace - oh what have they become :(
Post by: Tiny Tim on July 23, 2006, 15:39:18: I think you are on to something there ! 8)
Title: Greenpeace - oh what have they become :(
Post by: rangerider on July 23, 2006, 16:56:47: As long as you see it in the library, starbucks etc.

You must read it outside of a dwelling. I think it is reasonable to assume that an organistation the size of greenpeace has a prefessional web person who produces content from an office.

Hmm, theres a point, shouldnt all greenpeace staff telecommute to help cut down on damage?
Title: Greenpeace - oh what have they become :(
Post by: C C on July 23, 2006, 17:23:02: I think a complaint or two to the Charity Commission will be in order here.

Greenpeace are a registered charity. Promoting hate crimes must surly conflict with any charitable aims they are supposed to have.

An investigation from the Charity Commission will make them sit up and take notice more than scum like us e mailing them is likely to do.

Anyone fancy drafting a suitable complaint that we less articulate types can send in?

http://www.charity-commission.gov.uk/index.asp

complaining page:

http://www.charity-commission.gov.uk/publications/cc47.asp#3
Title: Greenpeace - oh what have they become :(
Post by: gtomo2 on July 23, 2006, 17:24:00: You could be on to something here brumlee.
Title: Greenpeace - oh what have they become :(
Post by: MK-90 on July 24, 2006, 10:24:08: The anti 4x4 lot have managed to find their way on to the union website of southampton uni :shock: No surprises there then....at least he seems out numbered

Not sure if you will be able to read the thread but heres the link anyway

http://forum.susu.org/susuforum-thread-16886.html

Probably not even worth a reply :D :)
Title: Greenpeace - oh what have they become :(
Post by: Rangie3.0LtrDan on July 24, 2006, 10:31:44: Quote
Gorm says ...

Whose idea was this?

I fail to see how a pedestrian/cycle area on a culturally diverse campus is an appopriate location to park some gas guzzling pedestrian unfriendly symbol of American oppression.

Asking students/staff not to bring cars onto campus, and then parking this in a pedestrian area, doesn't seem particularly clever.

If you must permit a 4WD, may a recommend a landrover instead? Preferably with some evidence it has spent some time off road.

Hummers for show, Landies for a pro?

/G

Well it seems he knows what he is talking about, he isnt slamming off roaders, he is slamming a motor that quite obviously wasnt used offroad.

I do agree with the arguments about people having them and not using them how they are supposed to be used, as alot of people are using them as a fashion statement which is where our bad press is coming from.
Title: Greenpeace - oh what have they become :(
Post by: MK-90 on July 24, 2006, 10:40:14: Not Gorm...the Stephanoph bloke :? During the uni's environmental week i ended up with one of those fake parking tickets :twisted: Didnt see who did it though...I thought i had another a few days later. Alas the second was real :oops:

The rest all seem to be rather with it :D
Title: Greenpeace - oh what have they become :(
Post by: Rangie3.0LtrDan on July 24, 2006, 10:43:24: Yeah, its just showing its the minority, that forum is the ideal showpiece for our defence to show that most people dont care!

All but one person stated that off roading was fine, one person said it wasnt, although i would like to get in contact with this gimp and ask him what i am supposed to do as i cant walk for more than 20 metres without severe pain, of course i am supposed to sit at home and do nothing like a good little cripple!
Title: Greenpeace - oh what have they become :(
Post by: Jas278 on July 24, 2006, 10:50:48: Quote from: "DiscoV8iDan"
Quote
Gorm says ...

Whose idea was this?

I fail to see how a pedestrian/cycle area on a culturally diverse campus is an appopriate location to park some gas guzzling pedestrian unfriendly symbol of American oppression.

Asking students/staff not to bring cars onto campus, and then parking this in a pedestrian area, doesn't seem particularly clever.

If you must permit a 4WD, may a recommend a landrover instead? Preferably with some evidence it has spent some time off road.

Hummers for show, Landies for a pro?

/G

Well it seems he knows what he is talking about, he isnt slamming off roaders, he is slamming a motor that quite obviously wasnt used offroad.

I do agree with the arguments about people having them and not using them how they are supposed to be used, as alot of people are using them as a fashion statement which is where our bad press is coming from.

EVERYBODY should have a choice, are Porsche drivers all Racing drivers ,no.......................
Title: Anti 4x4
Post by: discotdi on July 24, 2006, 19:13:20: I saw the Greenpeace video this morning I was a little pixxed to say the least,I have always thought they did a good job showing the public what gose on in the world but that vid was just jumping on the band wagon.

I sent them a mail just say they have lost the plot and should spend money on far more important things .

So this is there repliy.

Sorry the film upset you so much. It was aimed at city gas guzzlers not farmers or other people who need them or who have modified them. It was produced by people inside the advertising industry who normally make car ads. They wanted to do something for us that challenged the whole aspirational nature of 4X4s of giving freedom, sex apppeal, etc etc. It was really just done as a spoof car ad. Some people have said its brilliant, some not. But I respect your views on this and we will take them into account for future work we do on
Title: Greenpeace - oh what have they become :(
Post by: Dirty Gertie on July 24, 2006, 20:16:00: My five penn'orth:
Dear God!!! You people have really overstepped the mark this time!!!

Inciting bullying in the workplace; including name-calling, sending to coventry and SPITTING in peoples drinks!!! DISGUSTING!!!!

When oh when will you people do some PROPER research into the environmental WHOLE LIFE impact of vehicles on our planet???

The majority of pollution from any vehicle is produced during ints PRODUCTION

Some 75% of all Land Rovers EVER manufactured are STILL on the road; how many Prius's will be around 50 odd years after their manufacture?? Very very few I suspect!!

Have you considered the environmental impact of disposing of all the 'eco-friendly' euro boxes that their owners blithely replace every 2 or 3 years? And don't even get me started on the ecological nightmare yet to come when battery-powered vehicles become popular, due to your misguided hate campaigns!! - All those batteries need to be disposed of; oh, and where does their initial power come from? Oh, yes, power stations, burning fossil fuels to make the electricity to charge them!

I suggest that you do some REAL research before you incite hate-crime on people who really DO have the well-being of the planet at heart!

Oh, and I don't want a woolly liberal apology telling me that, as the owner of a 13 year old Land Rover; you didn't mean me; 'Joe Public' sees the Land Rover as the epitome of the 4 wheel drive vehicle, and rightly so, BUT we should NOT be targetted as figures of villification; particularly by people who think it is perfectly alright to fly on holidays several times a year, recycle nothing, change their commuter-box every 2 or three years, so they don't have the 'bother' of maintaining it.

Get real Greenpeace; I suggest you do some REAL research about the people YOU are encouraging the general public to turn violently against, I think you will find there are many who deserve your wrath far more; or are we simply an easy target??

I suggest you READ (properly) http://www.4x4prejudice.org/index.php
and THEN send me your explanation and apology for the disgusting waste of celluloid you have put into the public domain.

Oh and IF you REALLY want to make a difference in carbon emissions; I suggest you lobby the government to drop the punitive taxes currently levied on the use of carbon negative fuels.
Title: Greenpeace - oh what have they become :(
Post by: Jas278 on July 24, 2006, 20:20:36: Gosh.................................You ok Janie , I realy like you and would never cross you honest :lol:
Title: Greenpeace - oh what have they become :(
Post by: Skibum346 on July 24, 2006, 20:23:23: She did say five pen'orth didn't she...? Looked more like her life savings!

:lol:

Go get 'em gurly!

Skibum
Title: Greenpeace - oh what have they become :(
Post by: Edge on July 24, 2006, 20:26:50: Reply from greenpeace

rom:    "John Sauven" <John.Sauven@uk.greenpeace.org>   Add to address book
To:    <jarrod1@tiscali.co.uk>
Cc:    "Jo Sayers" <Jo.Sayers@uk.greenpeace.org>
Subject:    RE: 4x4's
Send:    Mon, 24 Jul 2006 18:49:52 +0100

Hi Jarrod,
Sorry the film upset you so much. It was aimed at city gas guzzlers not
farmers or other people who need them or who have modified them. It was
produced by people inside the advertising industry who normally make car
ads. They wanted to do something for us that challenged the whole
aspirational nature of 4X4s of giving freedom, sex apppeal, etc etc. It
was really just done as a spoof car ad. Some people have said its
brilliant, some not. But I respect your views on this and we will take
them into account for future work we do on 4X4s.
John

I did mention in my complaint that my landrover is used for work and off roading...... Never on the school run (as i dont have kids). But if i did have kids then obviously i would take them to school in it.
Title: Greenpeace - oh what have they become :(
Post by: Skibum346 on July 24, 2006, 20:44:00: Couldn't bear it any longer... see my mail... :(

I am writing to communicate my horror at the messages contained within the video currently accessible on your website. For many years I have looked upon Greenpeace as a principled green organisation that highlights some of the corporate scandals affecting our environment. I have always believed that you pulish clear, scientific data to support your arguments.

I own and drive a Discovery (1990) and a my wife drives a Range Rover (1994). We use LPG, we recycle, we pas our clothes and other household items no longer wanted onto relevant charities. However, at face value, we fall into the category your video so dangerously describes. I have heard that your response is likely to suggest that your video intended to target Ã¢â‚¬Å“city gas guzzlersÃ¢â‚¬Â. Please indicate for me the part of the video that does this?

I found the message of the video firstly and most importantly provided no data to support your arguments. Instead, you are encouraging people to make judgements on co-workers based upon nothing more than the car they drive. If this behaviour was to happen in any business organisation, it would not be those carrying out the vindictive attacks who would be supported by the Human Resources department, but the 4x4 driver. Not only are you opening up an innocent individual (innocent as there is not yet a law stating 4x4Ã¢â‚¬â„¢s are illegal) to vindictive abuse, but you are in danger of adversely affecting the career of those whom you influence.

I have been so shocked by this video that I have made a complaint to the Advertising Standards Agency. I have also passed your advert onto the Chartered Institute of Personnel & Development in order that HR professionals around the country are aware that your video may be a root cause of workplace bullying.

Finally, let me just say that in this age of Ã¢â‚¬Å“hoodiesÃ¢â‚¬Â, Ã¢â‚¬Å“yob CultureÃ¢â‚¬Â and Ã¢â‚¬Å“ASBOÃ¢â‚¬â„¢sÃ¢â‚¬Â, for an otherwise respectable organisation to promote the kind of judgmental behaviour through an individual exercising their right to make a personal choice that suits their personal situation is verging on criminal. It should not be the 4x4 driver sent to Coventry, but Greenpeace.

Frank McGoldrick
Title: Greenpeace - oh what have they become :(
Post by: muddytyre on July 24, 2006, 20:55:10: Is it me or were the two replies from GreenPeace almost exactly the same?
Title: Greenpeace - oh what have they become :(
Post by: Skibum346 on July 24, 2006, 21:13:02: Thought I'd give "The Times" a try....

Sir,

I have just watched a video on the Greenpeace website that forms part of their anti 4x4 campaign and am concerned at the message it is promoting.

The video follows a day at work of an individual where at every turn his co-workers are carrying out a vindictive campaign of insults, both written and verbal and a policy of exclusion. There is even an instance of a co-worker making a coffee for the victim and spitting in it.

Whilst there is a reasoned debate to be had about the impact of all types of vehicles on our environment, I am horrified at the type of judgemental, anti-social behaviour this video portrays.

The video can be viewed here.

And for the purposes of balance, the kind of reasoned data I expect from Greenpeace can be found here. (www.4x4prejudice.org)

All my life, Greenpeace has been an organisation that I have had respect for. This video has cost them my respect.

Yours sincerely

Frank McGoldrick
Title: Greenpeace - oh what have they become :(
Post by: ben_haynes on July 24, 2006, 21:17:41: Quote from: "muddytyre"
Is it me or were the two replies from GreenPeace almost exactly the same?

they are exactly the same
Title: Greenpeace - oh what have they become :(
Post by: BrumLee on July 24, 2006, 22:25:26: Quote from: "muddytyre"
Is it me or were the two replies from GreenPeace almost exactly the same?

Exactly the same :roll: and the same as the one I received :roll: :roll:

I have replied to them and explained that if these people that made the movie work for the motor industry then this may be the last advert they make. I will be emailing the motor manufacturers body, the SMMT tomorrow with a copy of Greenpeace's email and they will I suspect carry out an investigation.

I still have to see the police tomorrow to get some light shed on the other path.
Title: Greenpeace - oh what have they become :(
Post by: Garth on July 24, 2006, 22:46:41: Same responce here. Had a rough day so not going to reply yet

Hi Dave,

Sorry the film upset you so much. It was aimed at city gas guzzlers not farmers or other people who need them or who have modified them. It was produced by people inside the advertising industry who normally make car ads. They wanted to do something for us that challenged the whole aspirational nature of 4X4s of giving freedom, sex apppeal, etc etc. It was really just done as a spoof car ad. Some people have said its brilliant, some not. But I respect your views on this and we will take them into account for future work we do on 4X4s.

John
Title: Greenpeace - oh what have they become :(
Post by: Garth on July 24, 2006, 22:51:50: I haven't read all other posts so I may be repeating someone.

But isn't that a waste/misuse of Charitable funds "Having a bit of fun" with money donated to a "worthy charity"

If someone has time should get in touch with Charities commission.
Title: Greenpeace - oh what have they become :(
Post by: BrumLee on July 25, 2006, 10:56:33: I've had another short reply from Greenpeace:

Quote from: "Greenpeace"
Dear Lee,
I think every newspaper and tv company would be taken to court if a few swear words causes this much mayhem. By the way do you run the Discovery Supporters Club??
regards
John

Quote from: "BrumLee"
Dear John

TV companies that show programs containing language of the type your organisations movie contains gives a warning prior to the airing of it, if it happens during a live program they apologise profusely, and they also have to answer to the broadcasting or advertising agency. In my opinion Greenpeace think they are above the law and have jumped on the loony band-wagon regarding the choice of owning a 4x4 vehicle.

Why not campagian against vehicles been built and promoted for the ridiculous top speeds and output they produce? These performance vehicles driven by youngsters have robbed three families of their loved ones in the past weeks in my immediate area. Limiting the top speed of LGVÃ¢â‚¬â„¢s has been a key factor in lowering their fuel consumption, the same could be achieved with cars. But alas, that action would lose too many political points, and thatÃ¢â‚¬â„¢s all political parties and organisations like yours are interested in.

To answer your question, I donÃ¢â‚¬â„¢t run the Discovery Supporters Club, I donÃ¢â‚¬â„¢t even thing that club exists. I was membership secretary of the Discovery Owners Club, so I take it youÃ¢â‚¬â„¢ve done an internet search on me but your facts are once again distorted. Club membership promotes the responsible use of 4x4 ownership and as club members are bound by codes of conduct. One of those rules is to respect members of the public and other road users. The actions in your movie would be seriously frowned upon if used against any anti-4x4 activist. And as for the foul language on your site, register on any 4x4 forum and attempt to use this foul language, it will be filtered out and any continuation in its use, a moderator will ask you to refrain from its use or face a ban.

Working together with those you wish to influence is a better way of achieving, throwing insults will lose you support. It is there for the world to see which path Greenpeace have chosen.

Kind regards

Lee Jones

See what comes back :roll:
Title: Greenpeace - oh what have they become :(
Post by: laser_jock99 on July 25, 2006, 12:54:25: Greenpeace have posted the vid on YOUTUBE

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NOr6EFoXZMk

you might want to add your comments there since the ones we're posting to Greenpiss are 'mysteriously' not getting posted!! Greenpiss can't filter those!
Title: Greenpeace - oh what have they become :(
Post by: rangerider on July 25, 2006, 13:18:13: It seems to me that greenpeace are in clear contravention of you tubes T&Cs

Specifically
C. In connection with User Submissions, ......
(iii) submit material that is unlawful, obscene, defamatory, libelous, threatening, pornographic, harassing, hateful, racially or ethnically offensive, or encourages conduct that would be considered a criminal offense, give rise to civil liability, violate any law, or is otherwise inappropriate;
Title: Greenpeace - oh what have they become :(
Post by: Jas278 on July 25, 2006, 13:37:40: I think this topic has a lot of miles to run yet ? I hope as many people see the video as possible ,and as many protest directly to Greenpeace. The video has certainly made them into a laughing stock ..........
Title: Greenpeace - oh what have they become :(
Post by: rangerider on July 25, 2006, 13:49:04: Indeed, I have not reported it simply because to date all the comments fall firmly on our side of the fence :)

the more that point out what dross a once respectable organisation is now putting out the better
Title: Greenpeace - oh what have they become :(
Post by: BrumLee on July 25, 2006, 15:20:39: new reply, different person:

Quote from: "Greenpeace"
Hello Lee

John passed me your email detailing your advice that we Ã¢â‚¬Ëœwork together with those you wish to influenceÃ¢â‚¬â„¢ because itÃ¢â‚¬â„¢s Ã¢â‚¬Ëœa better way of achievingÃ¢â‚¬â„¢ while Ã¢â‚¬Ëœthrowing insults will lose you support. It is there for the world to see which path Greenpeace have chosen.Ã¢â‚¬â„¢

Thank you for your suggestions. Can I direct you towards a story detailing how we worked closely with McDonaldÃ¢â‚¬â„¢s in an ultimately successful attempt to slow deforestation in the Amazon biome? A deal between us, UK retailers and US multinationals was signed last night instituting a 2 year moratorium on soya production in the biome. The BBC World Service ran with the story for an entire day, recognizing the significance of the co-operation between us and business.

Unfortunately not all of our efforts to work with business are as successful, notably the auto industry. While the Amazon is threatened once again by drought this year Ã¢â‚¬â€œ a direct effect of climate change Ã¢â‚¬â€œ greenhouse gas emissions rise, with transport as responsible as other areas of the economy and poor vehicle efficiency being one of the main reasons. What is Land Rover doing? Little.

In short, we work with business and we get results. Where business wonÃ¢â‚¬â„¢t shift or work with us, we campaign, and we still get results. With climate change threatening the very fabric of our societies before the end of this century, I will leave it to you to tell your descendents what you did and didnÃ¢â‚¬â„¢t do to reduce emissions. And we canÃ¢â‚¬â„¢t say we werenÃ¢â‚¬â„¢t warned Ã¢â‚¬â€œ check out this very recent story, about the Amazon drought:

http://news.independent.co.uk/environment/article1191932.ece

And check out the details of our work with business this week:

http://www.greenpeace.org.uk/forests/forests.cfm?ucidparam=20060725095242

And finally, on the use of a couple of rude words, I would point out that last week news outlets across the world broadcast the use of the word Ã¢â‚¬ËœshitÃ¢â‚¬â„¢ by the President of the United States. ItÃ¢â‚¬â„¢s only a word after all, and its use is not exactly the most pressing issue we face on this planet. This is:

http://www.newscientist.com/channel/earth/climate-change

All the best

Ben Stewart
Greenpeace

[/quote]
Title: Greenpeace - oh what have they become :(
Post by: Devon-Rover on July 25, 2006, 15:54:35: And the reason why they have to resort to Purile name calling is?

They haven't answerd the question just avoided it and tried to give some other excuse as to why they should campaign for climate change in a non related way to the fact that have targed 4x4 drivers.
Title: Greenpeace - oh what have they become :(
Post by: rangerider on July 25, 2006, 15:57:23: Didnt I read somewhere that for some great percentage of the devolping world the first motor vehicle seen was a landrover????

so what has landrover done? opened up the world would be my answer!
Title: Greenpeace - oh what have they become :(
Post by: MrTFWitt on July 25, 2006, 16:15:38: A better response but neatly side stepping the issues of workplace bullying.

I'm not a solicitor but as far as I can tell the act of "incitement to hatred" is only an offence if its based on national, racial or religous grounds.

Now if we can get 10,000 people to declare off-roading as their religion in the next census it will become a recognised religion just as the Jedis did last time.
That would put a different spin on the whole thing.
Title: Greenpeace - oh what have they become :(
Post by: rangerider on July 25, 2006, 16:33:16: Urban Myth Im afraid.

Quote
But officials from the Office of National Statistics are keen to point out that just because Jedi Knight has been given its own code, that does not confer on it the status of official recognition.

"We are not defining what a religion or a faith might be," a spokeswoman said. "We are recognising what some may have entered on their census form and ensuring that our coding framework will cater for it."

Taken from
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/1589133.stm
Title: Greenpeace - oh what have they become :(
Post by: Skibum346 on July 25, 2006, 16:51:46: Greenpeace reply....

Hi Frank,
Sorry the film upset you so much. It was aimed at city gas guzzlers not farmers or other people who need them or who have modified them like yourselves. It was produced by people inside the advertising industry who normally make car ads. They wanted to do something for us that challenged the whole aspirational nature of 4X4s of giving freedom, sex apppeal, etc etc. It was really just done as a spoof car ad - not to be taken too seriously. But I respect your views on this and we will take them into account for future work we do on 4X4s.
John

Getting really cheesed off now.... mail to the advertising standards agency.

Where you saw the advert: Greenpeace Website http://www.greenpeace.org.uk/gasguzzler/?CFID=4614100&CFTOKEN=33282897
When you saw the advertisement: 24th July 2006
The advertisers: Greenpeace
The product: Anti 4x4 Campaign
Your complaint: Sir/Madam, I am writing to complain about the imlicit promotion of ant-social behaviour contained within this video. It contains scenes of a campaign of victimisation, exclusion and workplace bullying. As an HR professional I know that if this behavior was exhibited in a real workplace, the perpetrator faces a number of penalties that could include summary dismissal. I think it is very irresponsible of Greenpeace to produce a video such as this that not only does not contain any specific evidence relating to their message but that promotes the worst type of workplace bullying of an innocent individual. Yours sincerely Frank McGoldrick
URL (Website): http://www.greenpeace.org.uk/gasguzzler/?CFID=4614100&CFTOKEN=33282897
[/i]
Title: Greenpeace - oh what have they become :(
Post by: Skibum346 on July 25, 2006, 16:54:25: My response to their reply...

John,

IÃ¢â‚¬â„¢m disappointed to note that you have failed to answer my question. It was not rhetorical.

I have heard that your response is likely to suggest that your video intended to target Ã¢â‚¬Å“city gas guzzlersÃ¢â‚¬Â. Please indicate for me the part of the video that does this?

I am aware that the response you sent me is a stock response and I am disappointed that you do not feel able to respond specifically to me. Please do so.

Frank McGoldrick
Title: Greenpeace - oh what have they become :(
Post by: discomummy on July 25, 2006, 18:06:59: Hi,

Having finally found time to watch the video, if you replace the 4wdriver with (for example) a disabled person or a person of another colour, greenpeace would condemn it, i am sure. Just because it is a 4wdriver does not make it funny or right. It is abusive and upsetting. I have often supported greenpeace in many of their campaigns, but will no longer.

Regards

Ela
Title: Greenpeace - oh what have they become :(
Post by: Skibum346 on July 25, 2006, 18:09:03: Quote from: "discomummy"
Hi,

Having finally found time to watch the video, if you replace the 4wdriver with (for example) a disabled person or a person of another colour, greenpeace would condemn it, i am sure. Just because it is a 4wdriver does not make it funny or right. It is abusive and upsetting. I have often supported greenpeace in many of their campaigns, but will no longer.

Regards

Ela

=D>=D>=D>=D>
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Title: Greenpeace - oh what have they become :(
Post by: Edge on July 25, 2006, 22:11:39: Dont greenpeace realise the earth has been getting hotter (climate change) since the last ice-age :?: .
According to scientific statistics the atmosphere was much worse than it is now prior to the last ice age.

In other words....... can someone explain how stopping driving ANY polluting vehicle is gonna stop the next ice age :?: Its coming no-matter what we do :roll: :roll:
Title: Greenpeace - oh what have they become :(
Post by: Bob696 on July 25, 2006, 23:06:36: Quote from: "TRUG"
Dont greenpeace realise the earth has been getting hotter (climate change) since the last ice-age :?: .
According to scientific statistics the atmosphere was much worse than it is now prior to the last ice age.

In other words....... can someone explain how stopping driving ANY polluting vehicle is gonna stop the next ice age :?: Its coming no-matter what we do :roll: :roll:

Yeah but saying that wont pay the wages of the greenpeace muckty mucks or keep fuel in the pleasure crusiers they run ... sorry meant to say protest ships.
Title: Greenpeace - oh what have they become :(
Post by: Devon-Rover on July 26, 2006, 01:08:13: Quote
Dont greenpeace realise the earth has been getting hotter (climate change) since the last ice-age .
According to scientific statistics the atmosphere was much worse than it is now prior to the last ice age.

In other words....... can someone explain how stopping driving ANY polluting vehicle is gonna stop the next ice age Its coming no-matter what we do

=D> Yes that is soo very true.

The earth has been heating up then cooiling down since the dawn of earth it self.
There has been walls of ice a mile high just outside of bristol which circumvented the whole earth! and when that melted the seas as we know them were created.
It has also been shown that the thames and to out a name on it london. There was once a tropical swamp where Hippo's and other asscociated life used to live!

The white cliffs of dover Is made of chalk which in turn is the carcasses of the many trillion dead microscopic sea animals where it was once a Tropical sea covering most of the UK IIRC.

For crying out loud We the human population is making a very small contribution to the total global environment. The earth has a very complex ecosystem and it's own way of maintianing it's own homeostasis. Should the balence tipped it'll be corrected some how.

Take the melting of the icecaps!

Temp goes up - Ice caps start to melt a bit more - the influx of could water causes the movement south of the gulf stream - The northen hemisphere previosly effected now gets colder- and so it's effect will probably cause the cooiling effect so the icecaps will stabalise a bit.

Right rant over
Title: Greenpeace - oh what have they become :(
Post by: laser_jock99 on July 26, 2006, 12:56:29: Quote from: "Devon-Rover"
It has also been shown that the thames and to out a name on it london. There was once a tropical swamp where Hippo's and other asscociated life used to live!

Britain was closer to the Equator then- we're moving North Northeast at a leisurely average of 1.3cm per year!

But the gist of your argument is true. There are far greater forces at work than the psudo environmentalists realise. What cars we drive ain't gonna change the big picture much because it's all part of natural, geological cycle over which we no control.

Take the CO2 agument for example- where do they think carbon comes from? Is carbon man made, imported from outer space or of an earthly origin? Fossil fuels- whether burned by man or spewed out of the rocks via a volcano- back into the atmosphere it will all come eventually.

Then you realise how utterly pointless planting trees is to offset carbon emmissions- locked up for 100-200 years at most. Turning CO2 into carbonate rocks like Limestone might lock it up for a few million years longer- but it still liable to come belching back out of a volcano in a subduction zone!
Title: Greenpeace - oh what have they become :(
Post by: BrumLee on July 26, 2006, 13:59:38: Quote from: "laser_jock99"
Britain was closer to the Equator then- we're moving North Northeast at a leisurely average of 1.3cm per year!

Does that mean I've gotta learn Geordie :lol: :lol:

Latest reply:

Quote from: "Ben, Greenpeace"
Hi Lee

Thanks for the reply. You say:

Ã¢â‚¬Å“I am still intrigued to know the facts and figures you claim to have in your possession that state 4x4Ã¢â‚¬â„¢s are the only vehicles in the UK that emit high levels of greenhouse gasses.Ã¢â‚¬Â

I never said that. Of course 4x4s arenÃ¢â‚¬â„¢t the only ones with high emissions. The reason we target them is this Ã¢â‚¬â€œ they are a growing fashion accessory that is threatening the trend in emissions reductions. Sometime in the early nineties SUVs gained popularity in the United States, a trend was born that recently reached its apex with almost half US vehicle purchases being SUVs. The result? A steady downward trend in emissions per km in the US fleet became a spike. And with it the attendant climate dangers. And all because of a fashion. Now, that fashion for urban 4x4s crept over the Atlantic, but we were ready to counter it, and thatÃ¢â‚¬â„¢s what weÃ¢â‚¬â„¢re doing. WeÃ¢â‚¬â„¢re trying to counter a trend that, when unchecked in the US, resulted in higher emissions and greater dependence on foreign oil.

Of course we also oppose unnecessary use of other high-emitting cars, but thereÃ¢â‚¬â„¢s no massive trend in increasingly popularity for those gas guzzlers. An analogy: When the police announce a crack-down on, say, mobile phone theft, they are not saying itÃ¢â‚¬â„¢s a worse crime than all others. Instead they have noticed a worrying new trend and are acting to snuff it out in its infancy. Saying our focus on 4x4s ignores all the other emissions threats is like saying a police concentration on mobile phone theft is a sign that Sir Ian Blair regards Vodaphone stealing as more serious than GBHÃ¢â‚¬Â¦

I again refer you to the climate crisis. How can we tell our kids and grandchildren that we read the science, we were warned, we knew what was happening to their world, but we were really into the 4x4 style.

DoesnÃ¢â‚¬â„¢t wash for me. We need to do everything across the board to reduce emissions, and that includes tackling trends that lead to energy wastage. If I noticed a growing trend for leaving the windows open in winter and just turning up the heat, IÃ¢â‚¬â„¢d make an on-line video about that too. ItÃ¢â‚¬â„¢s not about class, itÃ¢â‚¬â„¢s about leaving this planet in a better state than we found it. A kind of countryside code writ large, if you like.

All the best

Ben

So who does Ben think is buying these vehicles? The working man that buys a tiny jap tin-box for Ã‚Â£6k every three years or the person that used to pay Ã‚Â£40k for a Merc, BMW or Porsche :roll: No more people are buying high emissions cars, they're just changing the label :roll: :roll:
Title: Greenpeace - oh what have they become :(
Post by: Skibum346 on July 26, 2006, 14:05:08: Skibum
Quote from: "BrumLee"
So who does Ben think is buying these vehicles? The working man that buys a tiny jap tin-box for Ã‚Â£6k every three years or the person that used to pay Ã‚Â£40k for a Merc, BMW or Porsche :roll: No more people are buying high emissions cars, they're just changing the label :roll: :roll:

Brum,

Lets keep this going.. the more time they have to spend responding to our mails... the lesas time they have to victimise other groups.

Why not ask them what statistics they have relating to the WHOLE LIFE cost of vehicles?

:twisted:

You work on that bit and I'll work on their promotion of anti-social behaviour!

Skibum
Title: Greenpeace - oh what have they become :(
Post by: andycwb on July 26, 2006, 14:13:26: When you realise that the founders of Greenpeace left in disgust after the organisation become subverted by the anti-capitalist movement, it all starts to make sense.
Title: Greenpeace - oh what have they become :(
Post by: Jas278 on July 26, 2006, 15:09:00: GREENPEACE , DEDICATED FOLLOWERS OF FASHION,.................So they are fashion police and if they dont like the trends , they will campaign to change them, ..................its all a lot clearer now......MUPPETS
Title: Greenpeace - oh what have they become :(
Post by: on July 26, 2006, 15:17:51: :arrow:
Title: Greenpeace - oh what have they become :(
Post by: Devon-Rover on July 26, 2006, 15:31:25: mmmm A few more points to raise!

Quote
I never said that. Of course 4x4s arenÃ¢â‚¬â„¢t the only ones with high emissions. The reason we target them is this Ã¢â‚¬â€œ they are a growing fashion accessory that is threatening the trend in emissions reductions. Sometime in the early nineties SUVs gained popularity in the United States, a trend was born that recently reached its apex with almost half US vehicle purchases being SUVs. The result? A steady downward trend in emissions per km in the US fleet became a spike. And with it the attendant climate dangers.

So why don't they put more effort into the campaign into the American compliance to the Kyoto treaty. Which G.W. Bush said America would never sign. If there great leader won't agree to reduce the emissions for the industry do they think that the public will go down the same route and reduce emissions for their cars voluntarily? Then there was the Bonn compliance, But then that needs Russia to come into to line and comply with what is being said.
There is bigger fish to fry in the big industrial nations than just the few who drive vehicles who might emit a fraction of the carbon these factories produce.

Then why are they not actively campaigning and trying to bully all those who travel on aircraft. As the big commercial airlines are the ones who produce the most pollution in the traveling world. Why call all those who use airlines all those horrible names?

No they are picking on the 4x4 as it is a small minority that can be easily singled out and therefore they can be targeted and then victimised! :twisted:

Quote
And all because of a fashion. Now, that fashion for urban 4x4s crept over the Atlantic, but we were ready to counter it, and thatÃ¢â‚¬â„¢s what weÃ¢â‚¬â„¢re doing. WeÃ¢â‚¬â„¢re trying to counter a trend that, when unchecked in the US, resulted in higher emissions and greater dependence on foreign oil.

So maybe not a time to tell them that the Range Rover and the Disco kind of founded the current idea of the SUV :wink:

Just a few ideas to be going on with.
Title: Greenpeace - oh what have they become :(
Post by: Thrasher on July 26, 2006, 15:31:53: Dave,

As someone with a Ã‚Â£75,000 RR *AND* an offroader I can see both sides. However I do use my "statement" in the way it was meant to be too....but alas, many do not.

Sadly they eed to attack ALL drivers - not just us. But as the nice lady that was on TV said to me "4x4's are an easy target...."
Title: Greenpeace - oh what have they become :(
Post by: rangerider on July 26, 2006, 22:29:34: I must be missing something.........

If we assume it is unfair to attack us for owning our 4x4s........

what makes it fair for me to be picked on for working and holidaying both sides of the atlantic and relying on another form of transport?

Attacking any particular thing, be it a mode of transport, a religion, a taste in music with the sanction of any government is the thin end of the wedge.
Title: Greenpeace - oh what have they become :(
Post by: Lord Shagg-Pyle on July 27, 2006, 02:41:47: What an intersesting video. But are all the other big engined cars going to be targetted, sorry, victimised as well?
So 4x4's are likely to kill more children? I can just see the ad people that greenpeace may have employed tocome up with this spoof advert for the motor show, sitting round a table made from non sustainable wood, in their air conditioned office in central london where all the lights are left blazing at night coming up with "lets say 4x4s kill kids and not people because that has more of an effect" before going off to snort a few lines of charlie. Oh, heaven forbid, I'm STEREOTYPING!
Perhaps that is what GreenPeace are doing.
Cars do not kill people, bad driving does. Every road user needs to wake to that. A person hit by a vehicle speeding is going to die, regardless what type it is.
Gobbing into someones coffee. Clever! What a great way to encourage health. What next? Let's take a s**t in his locker? Really funny.
Parents, educate your children to the dangers of all vehicles on the roads.
Yes, control pollution. What about all the ships that plough the oceans? How much fuel do they use?
What about the stuff that goes into the ocean when the supertankers 'flush out'?
I have no problem with people expressing views, but be fair and unbiased.
Title: Greenpeace - oh what have they become :(
Post by: andycwb on July 27, 2006, 08:26:54: Quote from: "TRUG"
Dont greenpeace realise the earth has been getting hotter (climate change) since the last ice-age

Two weeks ago we visisted the Athabasca Glacier in Canada. It's the most accessible part of the huge Columbia Ice Fields; several miles across, and a remnant of the last ice age (ice that's meting now is snow that fell during the ice age). I was close to arguing with the guide that the cause of the glacier receeding wasn't "global warming", but "the end of the ice age". I didn't want to spoil my holiday by getting into an argument, but it annoyed me all the same.
Title: Greenpeace - oh what have they become :(
Post by: Hovis on July 27, 2006, 10:44:34: Quote
From: Mark Davis [mailto:MDavis@apthompson.co.uk]
Sent: 26 July 2006 09:43
To: info@uk.greenpeace.org
Subject: Gas Guzzlers

Dear Sirs

I have just watched your Gas Guzzler video that is currently posted on your website, I was appalled at the irresponsible actions portrayed in it. IÃ¢â‚¬â„¢m not offended overly by bad language but I would have been very cross if my children had watched it on what I would have considered to be a safe site for them to view. Someone spitting in to some one elseÃ¢â‚¬â„¢s drink is not only disgusting and incredibly unhygienic it could quite easily result in legal action being taken. To show an entire workforce victimising one individual in that way is absurd, to have that many narrow minded people in one office is extremely unlikely. To think that people would be feel hatred toward someone because of their choice of vehicle is a little disturbing along with the fact you consider this to be acceptable. Would you condone these types of actions over, or reactions to, his choice of religion? In a world where freedom is, quite rightly, held in such high esteem removing peopleÃ¢â‚¬â„¢s ability to live life the way they want and make the choices they want to make can only have a negative effect.

I own a 4x4 which spends as much time off road as my spare time allows so to be tarred with the same brush I feel is unfair. Also, a number of people in our company drive 4x4Ã¢â‚¬â„¢s as it is necessary for their work, driving a BMW full of surveying equipment over a field or trying to get a tonne of kerbs across the formation of a building site in the boot of a Mondeo are not a great ideas. We work in London and many large cities a fair amount so it through necessity that our 4x4Ã¢â‚¬â„¢s are there. Our MD drives a Range Rover, again he uses it on site but doesnÃ¢â‚¬â„¢t want to slum it, but this does nothing to prove/disprove his views on conservation of the planet, the company donated funds to Danjugan Island amongst other charities.

I would like to know how you and the other anti 4x4 groups have come to the conclusion that they are so bad. I was under the impression that the capacity of the engine dictated the amount of CO2 exhausted, not the amount of wheels driven. Surely cars with large engines produce the same sort of emissions, so why not give them a good slating too? Is it because they are not so much of a minority and it wouldnÃ¢â‚¬â„¢t make good business sense to do that? What about 4x4 cars? Do these come under the same umbrella, or is it just the shape of vehicle you donÃ¢â‚¬â„¢t like?

I thought the point of Greenpeace was to not only bring dangers to the planet and all of its inhabitants to light, but to find workable solutions. It seems ironic then that nobody took the time to tell the Ã¢â‚¬ËœoffenderÃ¢â‚¬â„¢ what he was doing wrong. Who knows, perhaps with a bit of well pitched guidance he may have seen the error of his ways and sold, or even better scraped, or even better still recycled the Ã¢â‚¬ËœguzzlerÃ¢â‚¬â„¢. All that was actually achieved was bullying, a huge cause of depression and even suicide.

I would happily argue with anyone about the good the Greenpeace have done and the achievements that you have made. However, if this is the way Greenpeace are going to conduct themselves in the future I quite frankly do not want to be part of it. For this reason my partner and I will be cancelling our monthly direct debit and donating the money else where, we do not donate a massive sum but I am not happy thinking that I possibly helped to fund such drivel. I also believe that my father still makes a monthly donation, he too owns a 4x4 and IÃ¢â‚¬â„¢m sure that he will cancel his contributions as a result.

Look forward to hearing from soon.

Best regards

Mark Davis
Projects Development Engineer

A P Tompson Sports Engineering Ltd
The Courtyard
Kingston Bagpuize House
Kingston Bagpuize
Oxfordshire
OX13 5AX

Tel : ###########
Fax : ###########
Mob : ###########

www.apthompson.co.uk

This email and any files transmitted with it are confidential and intended solely for the use of the individual to whom they are addressed. If you receive this email by mistake please advise APThompson Ltd immediately by return and destroy all copies. Any attachments should be checked for viruses by the recipient. AP Thompson do not accept responsibility for damage caused by viruses.
________________________________________

From: Lisa Weatherley [mailto:lisa.weatherley@uk.greenpeace.org]
Sent: 26 July 2006 09:54
To: Mark Davis
Subject: RE: Gas Guzzlers[Scanned]

Hello Mark,

Sorry the film upset you so much. It was aimed at city gas guzzlers not farmers or other people who need them for genuine work purposes. It was produced by people inside the advertising industry who normally make car ads. They wanted to do something for us that challenged the whole aspirational nature of 4X4s of giving freedom, sex apppeal, etc etc. It was really just done as a spoof car ad. Some people have said its brilliant, some not. But I respect your views on this and we will take them into account for future work we do on 4X4s.

For more information on why we are targetting urban 4x4s in particular for the sake of the climate please visit our web site at www.choosecleanenergy.com

Best wishes,

Lisa Weatherley
Supporter Services, Greenpeace UK
www.greenpeace.org.uk
________________________________________

From: Mark Davis [mailto:MDavis@apthompson.co.uk]
Sent: 26 July 2006 10:01
To: Lisa Weatherley
Subject: RE: Gas Guzzlers[Scanned]

Dear Lisa

Thanks for the reply but it seems to be some what generic. IÃ¢â‚¬â„¢m sure that IÃ¢â‚¬â„¢m not the only one who has contacted you about the film but a little more of a response to the questions/points I raised would be appreciated. If that is not going to happen that is fine, but this film was produced to get a reaction and I think that the reaction should be dealt with in a professional manner.

Best regards

Mark
________________________________________

From: Lisa Weatherley [mailto:lisa.weatherley@uk.greenpeace.org]
Sent: 26 July 2006 10:09
To: Mark Davis
Subject: RE: Gas Guzzlers[Scanned]

Hello Mark,

Thanks but please have a read through our www.choosecleanenergy.com web site as the issues you raise are covered there and you might learn some new things too! I work as part of a small team answering literally thousands of enquiries and through necessity cannot provide lengthy answers to everyone. So I prioritise answering questions that arenÃ¢â‚¬â„¢t addressed on our web site. Perhaps you could and your friends could donate generously to Greenpeace so we can afford a few more people in our information service!

Best wishes,

Lisa

________________________________________

Hi Lisa

Thanks for the link but unfortunately it doesnÃ¢â‚¬â„¢t appear to address all of the points I made or provide answers to the questions I asked. I am already aware of the effects of global warming and the numerous possible reasons for the change in climate. IÃ¢â‚¬â„¢m sure that we are not helping with the massive use of fossil fuels but I believe there is truth in the argument that it is part of the planets natural cycle. IÃ¢â‚¬â„¢ll agree that these issues are well addressed from your perspective but that wasnÃ¢â‚¬â„¢t the question. My interest lays in the way a certain group of vehicles is being targeted and the method in which it has been undertaken.

I have been happy to donate in the past but, as stated in my original email, that quite simply is no longer going to happen.

So to clarify, IÃ¢â‚¬â„¢m not questioning your campaign to reduce the burning of fossil fuels. I am questioning in this instance the way in which it has been done, primarily the content of the video and why just 4x4Ã¢â‚¬â„¢s and not all powerful Ã¢â‚¬ËœGas GuzzlingÃ¢â‚¬â„¢ cars.

Best regards

Mark Davis

It's taken me a while to post but I've been having a bit of go too....
Title: Greenpeace - oh what have they become :(
Post by: Skibum346 on July 27, 2006, 12:26:50: =D> =D> =D> =D> =D> =D> =D>
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Title: Greenpeace - oh what have they become :(
Post by: BrumLee on July 27, 2006, 13:32:29: Quote from: "Lisa, Greenpeace"
Perhaps you could and your friends could donate generously to Greenpeace so we can afford a few more people in our information service!

We already do, education in this country is paid for by our taxes, this organisation needs educating :wink: :lol: :lol:
Title: Greenpeace - oh what have they become :(
Post by: Grant on July 27, 2006, 14:22:55: This anti-4x4 thing has got really boring.

They arent going to change their retarded little minds so f*** 'em, if they want to waste their lives whining about my car thats fine by me!

enjoy your landys!
Title: Greenpeace - oh what have they become :(
Post by: on July 29, 2006, 16:15:14: Quote from: "Grant"
This anti-4x4 thing has got really boring.

They arent going to change their retarded little minds so f*** 'em, if they want to waste their lives whining about my car thats fine by me!

enjoy your landys!

Well said!
Title: Greenpeace - oh what have they become :(
Post by: stefan on August 20, 2006, 10:00:21: I wonder who put the 'green' in to greenpeace?

Fact: They use 8,500 litres of diesel a day in their ships

Fact: In one year they burn enough diesel to run a Tdi Land Rover doing 350 miles per week for 998 years.

Stef
Title: Greenpeace - oh what have they become :(
Post by: bezzabsa on August 20, 2006, 11:43:44: hmm, maybe i should send them another email saying that i have sold my 4x4 and am seriously looking at a Jag 4.2 ;) think that'd please em!!!
Title: Greenpeace - oh what have they become :(
Post by: robpark on August 20, 2006, 13:16:00: Having started this thread I thought I ought to add a few words...

First off all I have been hugely impressed by the comments and the reasoned arguments that you have all made to Greenpeace :) :)

I've been rather saddened by the fact that Greenpeace have chosen not to address the real questions raised by their video, which were (1) whatever possesed them to think it was acceptable to portray viscious victimisation of an individual as a constructive campaign tactic and (2) why they choose to target 4x4 owners exclusively?

I would also add that Greenpeace supporter services haven't even bothered to respond to my original email :(

My donation is now going to Amnesty http://www.amnesty.org.uk/index.asp
Title: Greenpeace - oh what have they become :(
Post by: bezzabsa on August 20, 2006, 13:20:20: this is why my wifes nan would NEVER give money to Oxfam, she read about the charities and what percent they actually give, oxfam were bottom of the league with something like 0.3p out of every pound actually going to the needy!
green peace were quite low down the table - must be due to those bloomin boats - the french had the right idea!
Title: Greenpeace - oh what have they become :(
Post by: Terminus on August 20, 2006, 14:35:17: I decided to add yet another message if disaproval

Quote
Dear Greenpeace

I really should have started this e-mail with Ã¢â‚¬ËœOh Dear GreenpeaceÃ¢â‚¬Â, I have recently viewed your distasteful advert on 4x4Ã¢â‚¬â„¢s and was initially speechless.

Now before I start I own a 4x4 (you probably guessed that) and I have an Honours Degree in Environmental Science and Countryside Management (so IÃ¢â‚¬â„¢m not ignorant of the facts).

What you portray is a distasteful depiction of bigotry, inciting of workplace bullying and a rather one sided picture of a Ã¢â‚¬ËœgroupÃ¢â‚¬â„¢ of car owners whom you have decided to label without clarity or common sense.

I use my car for the purpose for which it was built, I walk whenever I can rather than drive, the emission levels of my car are far below the levels of numerous other Ã¢â‚¬ËœgroupsÃ¢â‚¬â„¢ of car owners. I sail which is in harmony with our ocean environment rather than the polluting diesel tanks that travel the globe (IÃ¢â‚¬â„¢m sure you can equate with that seeing as you yourselves use gallons of diesel in the name of campaigning)

Your advert sadly says to me Ã¢â‚¬ËœWe will stoop to any level and stop at nothing to force our opinion down your throat whether or not we have actually thought it throughÃ¢â‚¬â„¢.

Where is the Greenpeace that had rational and reason, which had respect and dignity?

What I see now is a political organisation (aka business) that fuels hatred (in this case with a distasteful message aimed at 4x4 drivers) that shouts without thinking of consequence (there are those in the world who will blindly believe what you say and imitate) and doesnÃ¢â‚¬â„¢t have to back up its lack of reasoning because we are who we are (because your point is flawed, there are far heavier polluters on the roads who drive what they drive simply for status and not practicality, whoÃ¢â‚¬â„¢s engines pump out far higher emissions than many rather lower emission 4x4s).

I wonÃ¢â‚¬â„¢t dive into the realms of mankindÃ¢â‚¬â„¢s actual impact on the environment in relation to the actual level of releasing of stored carbon because it would probably confuse an organisation whoÃ¢â‚¬â„¢s sole purpose now seems driven toward do as I say whether I can prove it or not.

I shall avoid going in depth into natural trends in the environmental cycle which have been at work long before the ant colony that is mankind appeared, or over emphasising the point that mankind has an ill founded belief in its own power Ã¢â‚¬Å“what will you leave for your children?Ã¢â‚¬Â no you donÃ¢â‚¬â„¢t really have that much of a choice Ã¢â‚¬Å“what will nature in all its power leave for youÃ¢â‚¬Â is more to the point.

Perhaps you should look at the resources Greenpeace expends itself, but no that would be counter productive to your blanket message that you are the defenders of the natural world (a world that defended itself for billions of years before you ever evolved).

In short you like any business exist to make money to fill your own membership quota and financial needs and like many a business have lost track of your original goal and values. You therefore resort to ill thought out tactics and tasteless discrimination.

From a name that once held respect to a business that now shows disrespect to whom so ever it pleases Ã¢â‚¬â€œ deeply disappointing.

I imagine you will have a stock reply ready to blanket people who dislike this particular campaign and await it with a sense of disappointment.

Regards
Title: Greenpeace - oh what have they become :(
Post by: rangerider on August 20, 2006, 17:48:39: I watched Penn & Teller last week take the green lobby to pieces. the person they gave most airtime to from the "greens are talking out their ***" side of the argument was....... a founder of Greenpeace :)

the less said about the people who signed the petition cooked up to ban dihydrous-oxide the better :)

(apparently it can cause excess urintation! - go figure) :)
Title: Greenpeace - oh what have they become :(
Post by: dreadnought110 on August 20, 2006, 18:49:47: :shock: just watched the video.The only reply to that is t****rs!!!
Title: Greenpeace - oh what have they become :(
Post by: nishikigoi on August 21, 2006, 13:16:31: Right, let's see a generic answer to this...... :(biggrin):

Sent 21/8/06

Like many others I have been deeply disturbed by your latest campaign, I was stunned to see an old friend in the video....in an office....in the city!

It is a shame that you did not show the full story for the hapless victim in your video, for as I knew him so well I just had to contact him. Knowing him to be of ancient farming stock, I just had to know what had befallen him and his kin to cause this, his tale was a harrowing one.....

Forced to take a job in the city to subsidise his father's family farm that has been hit repeatedly by misfortune and prejudice. Having lost the right to control the badger population in their cattle farm they had to watch as the entire herd fell ill to Bovine Tuberculosis and were destroyed and burnt. As a young man he watched as again they were hit by the threat of CJD and again all their stock was destroyed and burnt.

His fathers heart broken, he had to explain to his son that the farming life was not a secure proposition for raising a family. He also explained that as the compensation offered was such a derisory amount and the CJD scare had hit just as European subsidies had been removed. His only option was to allow a set of mobile phone antenna to be erected, some of the set aside land would be used for lucrative genetically modified crop research and development into baby milk, however over a mile of hedgerow dating back to the dark ages would need to be removed to provide larger crop areas and a efficient harvest. This money would last about three years, but some of the hill side land they owned could be strip mined once the wooded areas had been cut down to make pizza boxes. The old barns too could be converted into trendy apartments, once the Owls had been removed and the bats access obstructed

His son pleaded with him to reconsider, but the practicalities of financial viability were overwhelming unless another way could be found?

So his son, heavy of heart changed the focus of his studies. No longer a student of the local agricultural college, he would now study in accounting to secure a lucrative job and be able to avert disaster for the family farm. Every day he makes a weary journey from Burnham into Slough trading estate, it is not far only 3 miles but culturally a thousand miles from 'home'.

Still he always has the weekends and evenings to enjoy his beloved farm, driving the perimeter to check fences and make routine maintenance of the dry walls they so nearly lost forever, on the weekends he leads a local outreach group by taking disadvantaged children canoeing on the Thames locally, he also takes the farms produce directly to the public and sells in a farmers market from a trailer.

We sit and talk long into the evening about life in the city versus life in the country, we watch the sun go down as the bats squeak their echo location to navigate the barn and take evasive action as the owls glide effortlessly across the yard, looking for an inattentive mouse.

He is little preoccupied making Biofuel from some of the rape seed crop they produce, keeping a low carbon footprint by running their farms oil burning stove on Biofuel as well as running the farm tractor and his 4x4.

I take my leave as he has an early start, a delivery of candles from the glycerine by-product to deliver as well as some salt lick around the boundaries of the farm for the deer.

I tell him I'll stop by again soon, he insists I take his mobile phone number 'just in case', but I've got your home number I say.

He explains that the job is not working out too well, there have been a lot of personnel issues and he has had work load issues within his team. Recently he found some abusive comments had been attached to his jacket, upsetting his six year old daughter as he had not seen them until he got home and hung his jacket up. He is also concerned that there have been other harassment issues with obscenities made towards him and thinks he even caught one of the office staff spitting in his coffee!

I am stunned and ask what action had been taken? None at all he explains, apparently this is considered suitable behaviour and the personnel manager has said she is too busy to deal with this before she flies out for a holiday spear fishing in Australia. Still, he always tries to be friendly and courteous to all his co-workers, but looks forward to the end of the day and smiles every time he picks up his cars keys and sees the 'Superman' key fob his wife gave him as a token of all the hard work and choices he has made, she knows how hard working nearly a hundred hours split between an office and the farm can be.

I leave him and his family, wondering what crime he has committed to be treated in such a tragic manner and saddened by the narrow mindedness of human mob behaviour.

I hope when you next see him you give him my warmest regards and perhaps you could pass the video evidence to the personnel manager at his office, I am sure this would stop the harassment he has endured and be just cause for the immediate dismissal of those involved.

Regards,

Andrew Davies[/i]

Lets see them squirm that!
Title: Greenpeace - oh what have they become :(
Post by: Skibum346 on August 21, 2006, 13:24:40: **And the crowd went wild!**

=D> =D> =D> =D> =D> =D> =D> =D> =D>
=D> =D> =D> =D> =D> =D> =D> =D> =D>
=D> =D> =D> =D> =D> =D> =D> =D> =D>
=D> =D> =D> =D> =D> =D> =D> =D> =D>
=D> =D> =D> =D> =D> =D> =D> =D> =D>
Title: Greenpeace - oh what have they become :(
Post by: C C on August 21, 2006, 14:07:58: It brought a tears to my eyes... :oops:
Title: Greenpeace - oh what have they become :(
Post by: nishikigoi on August 21, 2006, 14:37:57: Quote from: "C C"
It brought a tears to my eyes... :oops:

Bless...... :sobsob:
Title: Greenpeace - oh what have they become :(
Post by: att on August 21, 2006, 14:57:53: Most excellent =D>
Title: Greenpeace - oh what have they become :(
Post by: robpark on August 21, 2006, 17:04:30: nishikigoi, that's fantastic :lol: :lol: