Mud-club
Vehicle & Technical => Series Land Rovers => Topic started by: muddyjames on February 04, 2010, 20:52:44
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Can anyone explain to me the scoring behind tax exempt status?
If say a new chassis was put on as the old was so rotten it was falling appart, would that still mean it is tax exempt?
If you put a new chassis and a different engine in would it still be tax exempt?
This seems like a mine field I am trying to get my head around when looking at landies to buy.
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The basis of Tax Exemption is that the vehicle must be registered on or before 1973 or proof of it being built.Chassis ,engine and any other details are irrelevant but someone else will be along soon that will be able to dot all the I's and cross the T's
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I have found this on another landy forum.
There are a possible total of 14 points for tax exemption. You have to retain 8 points to continue claiming tax exemption (Historic Status).
1 Point for the engine.
5 Points for the chassis.
2 Points for the transmission.
2 Points for the steering assembly.
2 Points for the suspension
2 Points for the axles.
= 14 Points in total.
For example, if you change the engine for a newer type 2.5 you will lose that 1 point. If you change the gearbox as well (for a newer type) you will lose another 2 points and so on.
series Landys are much more workable with replacement parts, if you put in a replacement reconditioned series engine this won't affect any points. The same goes for Parabolic springs, they are classed as a "Direct replacement part" so therefore the points system will not be affected for any vehicle before 1973.
The points system doesnt seem to mention a bulkhead. I have been wondering about maybe finding an old 2a and robbing it for the exempt parts, ie axles, steering, engine etc but putting it onto a galv chassis or if the chassis is good just pop a s3 bulkhead in. I really dont like 2a interirors but I do really like s3 interirors. Would a s3 bulk head loose points?
I shall await the boffins! lol
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right then, series landies are quite simple to retain the tax exempt status ...
you can replace the chassis with a "new" like for like replacement, modifying the chassis can and will most likely require an IVA (used to be SVA) which means you'll most likely end up with a Q plate and pay VED (Richards or Marsland do galvy chassis), leaf springs means any large multiple leaf things that fit to the original mountings (no carving and fitting with coils), cut the old chassis up and keep the drivers side dumbiron if the chassis number is still visible...
you can swap any of the bodywork to suit yourself (no points affected) including the bulkhead as long as you don't have to mod' the chassis to accomodate it...
you can swap the engine, with i think the loss of only 1 point, and another point for the gearbox (fitting a different gearbox without modifying the chassis might be a problem tho)...
you can swap the axles with like for like but it makes it harder to prove thiers and the cars age (both carry stamped numbers) so retain the scrap tubes as proof...
modify the steering and you'll lose points unless it can be reversed easily, there is a bolt on powersteering assistance assembly that can be bought that fits without welding and cutting so that can be used without affecting your points...
i think that gets about as simple as i can think of, you only need to retain 8 or 9 points to keep the exempt status and the chassis carries 5, steering i think is 2, axles i think another 2 and 1 each for engine and transmission...
if you want to run the risk of having it cubed and probably being prosecuted you can do anything you like, but remember your insurance if you go mad on the mod's as an incorrect description could end up voiding it (another possible prosecution)
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thanks for that.
I have no plans on heavily modifiying it as I like the look of series motors and the way they drive. Yes, I like the no power steering. It means you have to drive the car as opposed to modern cars where you point and shoot!
You say you have to keep the dumb iron with chassis number on. I was looking at new chasis and so how do you keep the chassis number on the new chassis?
Ideally in a dream worl I would like a galv chassis and bulkhead.
Hmm. food for thought anyway. A summer project might be fun to do if I can find a rotten s3 really cheap and swap the chassis over and bulk head. I guess it would cost about 2k to do that with buying a new chassis and bulkhead?
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you don't actually "have" to keep the dumb iron, but it is worth cutting it off the scrap chassis as part of the proof of the original identity of the rebuilt motor...
i don't believe you have to stamp the new chassis as it's just a direct replacement and you don't want to be cracking the galv' although it would probably be beneficial should it go missing one night...
i'm thinking of getting my 2a bulkhead galved once i've repaired it, i just have no idea how much it's likely to cost and i keep getting offered more bits that i can't refuse at the moment so i'm limited on funds :(
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Ive upset someone bout this the other day,o well!!!! A series in my eyes must always have "LEAFS",its what makes a propa landy.Ive fitted early rangy axles which came off a tax exempt motor,they are different to latter rangy axles,kept series box with just a 200 which keeps it ok in the rules,everything else is original.
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I would keep the leaf springs and just pop on parabolics. If I wanted a coil sprung landy I would get a defender. :D
In simple terms then, everything is replaceable as long as it is a like for like item, the points system only comes in once you start fitting bits that werent the standard parts when it rolled off the production line?
"In theory" I could get a tax exempt landy and get the chassis number and then go and buy a new chassis, bulk head, and every other part that makes up a s3 and be all brand new parts and it would still be tax exempt? This is an extreme example of course.
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"In theory" I could get a tax exempt landy and get the chassis number and then go and buy a new chassis, bulk head, and every other part that makes up a s3 and be all brand new parts and it would still be tax exempt? This is an extreme example of course.
Yes, as long as you destroyed the original chassis. I know of a bloke who's done something very similar.
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I'll defer to bigger brains than mine but I was under the impression that the 'points' system only applied to modifications or non-standard parts (eg: coils for leafs, 200tdi engine instead of 2.25 lump, different body etc), I didn't think a 'like-for-like' replacement (even if it was a chassis) counted as new.
Hope not anyway! I'm buying a new chassis this year :)
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I think that is roughly what has been agreed Alan, is that as long as the original car was made before 73 then in theory you could change everything for a like for like and have a brand new landy at the end of it but it will all near enough be new as long as you destroy the old chassis and keep the vin plate for evidence.
On a similar note, does anyone know how to look up the year a landy was made by a vin number? I have seen this (http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=280461736465&_trksid=p2759.l1259) landy on ebay and being ex mod I was wondering if it might have been made before 73. worth a shot! I have asked for the vin plate.
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Its a gaydon joby,just give them the chassis no.
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I think that is roughly what has been agreed Alan, is that as long as the original car was made before 73 then in theory you could change everything for a like for like and have a brand new landy at the end of it but it will all near enough be new as long as you destroy the old chassis and keep the vin plate for evidence.
On a similar note, does anyone know how to look up the year a landy was made by a vin number? I have seen this (http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=280461736465&_trksid=p2759.l1259) landy on ebay and being ex mod I was wondering if it might have been made before 73. worth a shot! I have asked for the vin plate.
It's doubtful. Although earlier series (like mine - 74 plate on a 63 build) were given plates based on the year they were released from service, later series were given age related plates on release.
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Deffo wont be tax exempt.
As stated they were given age related plates when they left the army.
I have a similar one on ebay (but in better nick!!) and it was definately built for 1980 and was released same year as that one.
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Slighly off topic :lol: :lol: :lol:
Taxed the mog today. Went down with the tax reminder form, my insurance docs and walked away with a 12 month zero cost tax disk. Nowt like agricultural for not needing much paperwork ;)
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Slighly off topic :lol: :lol: :lol:
Taxed the mog today. Went down with the tax reminder form, my insurance docs and walked away with a 12 month zero cost tax disk. Nowt like agricultural for not needing much paperwork ;)
Hope its used for agriculture? any othe use and u gota pay unles its pre 73?
i remeber when i was 16 useing the tractor for shoping ect even going to the pub ;) becase thats all i could drive them where the days 2am comeing bk from pub my m8 did the same he got warned by the police a few times about going into town on it for none agra use so much so he used to take a silage bale on the back with ihm so he could say he was feeding cows :dance:
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Top man!
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I think if you ask the DVLA they will advise a new chassis is ok but it must be new with the paperwork to prove it, after all it is a part that at some time might be replaced.
I think people often get confused with the points system for bulding kit cars wich was used to avoid a Q plate, when in fact you are just restoring an old car and substituting some components to improve the reliability / safety of the vehicle, I would write a carefully worded letter
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Slighly off topic :lol: :lol: :lol:
Taxed the mog today. Went down with the tax reminder form, my insurance docs and walked away with a 12 month zero cost tax disk. Nowt like agricultural for not needing much paperwork ;)
Hope its used for agriculture? any othe use and u gota pay unles its pre 73?
i remeber when i was 16 useing the tractor for shoping ect even going to the pub ;) becase thats all i could drive them where the days 2am comeing bk from pub my m8 did the same he got warned by the police a few times about going into town on it for none agra use so much so he used to take a silage bale on the back with ihm so he could say he was feeding cows :dance:
LMAO, yeah loooong way the other side of '73 ;)
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my 2a has a jap engine and a s3 gearbox i know i lose a point for the engine but what about the box?
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my 2a has a jap engine and a s3 gearbox i know i lose a point for the engine but what about the box?
the box should be fine as it's a "like for like" replacement and would probably have been fitted by an agent if it had gone in for major gearbox troubles rather than the old one rebuilt
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The basis of Tax Exemption is that the vehicle must be registered on or before 1973 or proof of it being built.Chassis ,engine and any other details are irrelevant but someone else will be along soon that will be able to dot all the I's and cross the T's
Year of registration is irrelevant, It's build date that matters, as long as you can prove it was built 1972 or earlier it is tax exempt.
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I'll defer to bigger brains than mine but I was under the impression that the 'points' system only applied to modifications or non-standard parts (eg: coils for leafs, 200tdi engine instead of 2.25 lump, different body etc), I didn't think a 'like-for-like' replacement (even if it was a chassis) counted as new.
Hope not anyway! I'm buying a new chassis this year :)
No, it's about the identity of the original car, otherwise you could buy a new chassis and put lots of second hand or recon bits on it and keep that registration, then I could buy the axles, steering, gearbox form you and argue that I had the original car. You have to keep more than half of the original car.
In the SEOC we had/have a problem (I stayed out of it) with an ex-sutton car that had been re-shelled/sold/expeorted/imported (portugal) etc and ran with several teams over the years. 2 guys both think they won a highly collectable ex-Sutton works Escort and are trying to get the registration back. As the club is DVLA approved we were asked to verify which car was the "original".
Now I think that when replacing a chassis you have to prove you have destroyed the original, though that might be for "reshells" following an accident :-k