Mud-club
Vehicle & Technical => Range Rover => Topic started by: John T on June 23, 2006, 21:48:20
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OK, my dilema is I have a 300tdi Disco that I'm currently building up as an off roader, I also have a ML270 as a family car. I am thinking of selling the ML as it doesn't really get that much use (to release some cash to finish the Disco)
I was fancying a P38, either a DSE or a 4.6HSE lpg, but all the horror stories put me off a bit, are they really that bad........?
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Depends really. They are a little prone to certain problems: mainly porous blocks and slipping liners in the 4.6s in particular, and air suspension gremlins in all models. The repair bills when things start going wrong are not cheap. But if you can find a goodun you may be OK.
Look at it as a highly complex vehicle, which may only cost £10K now, but was a £60K vehicle when new and has maintenance bills to match.
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i very very nearly bought one last year, when i was looking it amazed me how many had engine changes done down to slipped liners and blocks, also they all seemed to have endless list of work that had been done to them costing fortunes, the electrics are a problem as are the heater motors which are a mission to sort out, my local landy specialist who is also a mate just kept telling me not to get one, he said there always comeing to the workshop and its never a cheap job..
i whent for a Disco 2 4.0 V8 ES premium. im very happy with it and im glad i didnt go for a P38, i think they are looking at bit old now too..
(http://i32.photobucket.com/albums/d43/karting4/d2.jpg)
(http://i32.photobucket.com/albums/d43/karting4/d1.jpg)
H
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I think you're probably right,(my sensible side says stay well clear :cry: ) did the 4.0 Disco have the same engine / electrics etc as the 4.0 Range Rover?
Does this make the 4.0 a better bet than the 4.6 - less prone to the porous block syndrome?
On the other hand, i could just get another tdi Disco as a family car, or even a 3.9se Classic RR.
Decisions, Decisions....................................
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My brother in law put his P38 into a garage a few weeks ago to get the ABS checked as the light was staying on
Easy fix as it was a sensor but told the garage to check it over and MOT it since ticket was nearly up
£3000 later this has been done :shock:
New auto box as it wasn't changing gear properly
During MOT when they were doing the rev test for emissions(it's a diesel)
the fan sheared putting it through the rad !
So new rad,viscous fan and water pump for good measure
Garage claims liability lies with the MOT station and MOT station says liability not with them either !
Not a happy bunny but coughed up regardless - I would have gone ape [!Expletive Deleted!] if that had happened to me and heads would have rolled !
Certainly enough to make me think twice about ever buying one but I suppose they aint all bad
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not sure why but the V8 Disco normaly dosent suffer with the same problems less electronics for a start, hardly ever here of a engine failing, the 4.0 is defo more reliable than a 4.6
if you go for a Disco dont settle for less than the ES model with full leather etc..
H
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I've owned a 4.0 SE and now a 4.6 HSE. They arent as bad reliability wise as people say but you have to keep on top of the maintenance and learn a lot about the cars so you dont get ripped off.
4.0 and 4.6 share the same block, they can both suffer from slipped cylinder liners. The key is to keep the cooling system in top condition so the engine is not allowed to overheat. Clogged radiators & hoses, knackered stats etc are the main cause of problems. The 4.0 in my last P38 had pressurisation & coolant loss so i ended up selling it a huge loss- the reason? I allowed the rad to clog.
I replaced the ABS pump for about £250 with a used part & bled the brake system with the use of a RAVE cd. These are an absolute necessity with a P38.
EAS, love it. Again not as bad as people say and you have to keep on top of the maintenance. If you see the air springs cracking around the bottoms change them before you go into fault mode. Compressor becoming noisy, rebuild it. Air springs are only £60 now and there are simple, cheap rebuild kits for the rest of the parts. You can get cheap manual inflation kits if the system failing worries you
HEVAC can be problematic, make sure it can direct hot & cold air to both directions or the blend motors are probably gone, nasty job
I considered an SII disco, well worth a look, it was a close call but i preferred the interior, visibility and found it nicer to drive
I'd avoid the DSE, they barely move!
Dont be put off by the naysayers, they're great machines
good luck!
www.rangerovers.net
heres mine, couldnt be happier with it!
(http://img87.imageshack.us/img87/6897/picture040samll7fv.jpg)
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I've got to say the cheaper P38 look dated now (though the better ones still have class) and havn't aged as nicley as the classic.
the big repair bills put me off for a long time but now I've bought rovacom lite it's not such a problem, easy to use etc etc.
I love EAS on my classic LSE but it's not the last word in extreme off-roading, good ofr a standard car though.
I'm told one of the reasons 4.4s suffer form slipped liners more than 4.0 is because the 'box holds the higher gears longer in an effort to maintain economy. This leads to the top of the liner heating more than the bottom and starting tha damage. It's often a cracked block, not porous at all (porous is a bit of a misnoma). It can be avoided by good maintenance and thoughtful driving, use kickdown, that's what it's there for.
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Have you tried the Arnott gen III airbags? apparently tougher & longer travel
Fuel mapping on GEMS engined P38's is usually blamed for the 4.6 having more failures. Tornado chips are said to solve it but i'm not sure about spending so much on them, if its going to overheat its cause its not cooling properly
Its matured, not aged! :wink: Clear lenses & facelift headlights freshen it up but at the end of the day it was launched 12 years ago. i prefer it to the L322 anyway
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i think as RRB said above the later P38's still look up market i would say a 2001 onwards Vogue would be the car to go for, it has the best interior with more wood and includes inbuilt sat-nav, i looked at one that i fell in love with 2001 4.6 Vogue in a nice dark metalic green, it had 22inch alloys the interior was all colour matched with lightstone leather piped green with green carpets stunning car, but had high mileage and the owner turned out to be a trader who was trying to make out he was a private seller he wanted £12000 for it but he kept telling porkys, so i said i wasnt interested he then tried to sell me another P38 that was parked up the road, a T reg total dog so we bid him fairwell lol..
i would seriosly consider a late top of the range soft dash classic as an option, i think the classic RR still has something special about them and your get a nice one for a lot less than a P38
i straight swoped a 2001 70k TD5 Disco XS with a dealer for my current V8 ES which is a 2000 with 35k 1 owner full history. if i had cash he would have sold me the V8 for £9000, i just looked on autotrader and rang up all the traders with V8 ES's and asked if they wanted a swop with the view a TD5 will sell quicker than a V8, most of them still wanted me to give them cash on top, but one didnt and thats the car ive got..
you dont ask you dont get
H :wink:
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I tend to agree with the fuel mapping being at least part of the problem on the V8s, but manufacturing flaws can also be part of it too.
I'd have an L322 like a shot if I could afford it, but I think the P38A is still a very desirable car.
I'd echo the points above: don't skimp on the servicing, and learn about the car so you don't get ripped off (either intentionally or just a main dealer charging you £800 for a new valve block because they don't know how to strip and replace the o-rings for a few quid and an hours work).
Andy
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Find a good independant, ask for recomendations or try the section on Mud Club. Main stealers are a last reort and often don't want an older car lowering the tone. Funny, when LR products sell partly on their reputation for longevity.
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By the way, I should also mention that when I had mine, it was a bloody nice car, and was fantastic to drive. I do miss it sometimes. But then I remember the repair bills and don't miss it quite so much!
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Have you tried the Arnott gen III airbags? apparently tougher & longer travel
Is this for the RR Classic? if so where do I find out more. I'm not taking the LSE off-road but I think the airbags are pst their best, hence the poor ride, so I'd be interested in an upgrade.
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Sorry, my mistake they havent been launched for the classic yet. They are on the way soon though-
http://www.rover-renovations.com/comingsoon.html
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Hi yall, just joined up, so go easy on me.
Recently became an owner of a 1997 RR p38 4.6 HSE (110,000 miles) which has a couple of problems (surprise, surprise!) Firstly, and the most concerning is the loss of coolant........ I drove the car to Newquay from Walsall, enjoyed the holiday, round trip in all 900 miles. Before starting back I topped up the water with about a pint of water, and when I got home the loss was hardly noticeable. Driving around town I loose about a pint evey 200 mile or so, she is always in normal on the temp gauge and the system is not pressurising. To summise, It hardly uses any coolant on a long motorway run, but round town looses more. Is this normal?
Secondly, vibration, which seems to come from the torque converter area at 3,000 RPM and is also present on the over run. The viration happens when you are on the road or, if the vehicle is parked, in neutral, take her up to 3,000 RPM and you get the same vibration. Your help is most appreciated.
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Might be worth asking on a range rover specific forum like www.rangerovers.net or the mailing list on www.rangie.com.
The water loss sounds like it's related to hot/cold cycling. Are there any signs of water escaping anywhere?
No real idea on the vibration, I'm afraid.
Andy
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Might be worth asking on a range rover specific forum like www.rangerovers.net or the mailing list on www.rangie.com.
The water loss sounds like it's related to hot/cold cycling. Are there any signs of water escaping anywhere?
No real idea on the vibration, I'm afraid.
Andy
Hi Andy, you also replied to my posting 'P38 Water pump'. I'm thinking (morelike Praying) that the water loss and vibration are down to the water pump, I've felt the play on the water pump pulley and it moves about 3mm, leaks water and knocks and rattles at low revs, so I think it's fair to say it's f****d.
I'll keep you posted as to wether it cures the probs, hope to start surgery at the weekend. Cheers, Lance.
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By all accounts that I have read / heared, you need to be very cleaver with electrics, as P38s have the worst designed electrical system of all the rovers out there.
Even Santana's have a better electrical system!
Personally I'll stick with my 2 door rangie
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Sorry, my mistake they havent been launched for the classic yet. They are on the way soon though-
They started ealier this year, I got an ealy set and I'm very pleased with them.
http://members.mud-club.com/profiles/Range%20Rover%20Blues/gallery/EAS