Mud-club
Vehicle & Technical => Discovery => Topic started by: Mr Alford on July 01, 2008, 21:16:18
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im looking at both and on a budget, i was wondering who has either im looking for just the rear at the moment as i cant afford both the detroit locker is around £350 and i can fit it myself i have heard is good offroad and thats all im interested in i dont care about on road as i hardly ever use it onroad
secondly the arb i have heard great reports about it but then the cost goes up and it has to be fitted by someone else correct?
comments from anyone who has either
i am swayed towards the detroit due to cost
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dont like the sound of the running gear with lockers in. locker would make ur truck almost unstoppable but halfshafts would break easilys and a 3.54 diff would not be long after.
fiddle brakes would be a cheap as to locking a spinning wheel on the back.
as far as a locker goes id have to go for arb ever time i think.
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dont like the sound of the running gear with lockers in. locker would make ur truck almost unstoppable but halfshafts would break easilys and a 3.54 diff would not be long after.
fiddle brakes would be a cheap as to locking a spinning wheel on the back.
as far as a locker goes id have to go for arb ever time i think.
do you have either of them?
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i almost brought arbs a few months back , 2 lockers are the same price as winches front and back . so u will be stuck even with lockers but not winches to hand
as for driving with welded up diffs or truetrac effect then great for straight bits , but poor turning and mega stress on standard running gear
( oh that was on 8000 series tractor ruts in mid winter)
gr8 truck so far mr a think carefully for future mods
im now running over 3oo bhp ( im sure the gearbox gets worst every day ) so light attack off road all the time
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i almost brought arbs a few months back , 2 lockers are the same price as winches front and back . so u will be stuck even with lockers but not winches to hand
as for driving with welded up diffs or truetrac effect then great for straight bits , but poor turning and mega stress on standard running gear
( oh that was on 8000 series tractor ruts in mid winter)
gr8 truck so far mr a think carefully for future mods
im now running over 3oo bhp ( im sure the gearbox gets worst every day ) so light attack off road all the time
both my diffs are on the way out they have as much slack as a 50 year olds snatch so u rekon i shud get 2 second hand diffs for £70 and buy a superwinch epi9.5? cos i can get my hands on one for around 430
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fiddle brakes would be a cheap as to locking a spinning wheel on the back.
IIRC fiddle brakes are illegal on road anyway? Don't think you really want to have to trailer it everywhere and stick to private sites!
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fiddle breaks are not road legal as you have to have the fiddle breaks plumbed into the back and the foot petal does the front......I'm not going there!
as for lockers, i would go with the propper locker, the viscous units will never be as good as a true locking diff. sorry to say i think stev-o needs to think about what he is saying.....again! it all depends on the application both are as good as each other if used correctly. if you say that your diffs are on there way out then another alternative is diff pegging from ashcroft. they uprate all the materials and peg the crown wheel which improves the performance of the unit and also makes it last longer. also if you are looking at difflocks you will need uprated shafts, with all lockers in there is a possibility that only 1 wheel has traction therefor all power/torque is sent through that wheel.......causing havoc with shafts. ARB seem to be the thing people go for but i have seen a few posts here and there about how [!Expletive Deleted!] they are and the mcnamara ones are better.....don't know if its true its just what i hear(*read*) maxidrive i believe are doing good deals on shafts and locker kits. i hear there also pretty straightforward to fit. if i were you i would Peg the diffs and invest in a winch.....doesn't have to be a good one at the moment because when the time comes for you to need a good one( if you do need a good one ignore what i just said) then you can put the cheaper one in the back. hope that has helped.....i am full of more useless information if needed.
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fiddle breaks are not road legal as you have to have the fiddle breaks plumbed into the back and the foot petal does the front......I'm not going there!
Not sure about the legality side of it but the typical plumbing for fiddle brakes is to have all 4 brakes worked of the foot peddle as per normal but with the brake line to the rear going to the fiddle brake master cylinders (MC) and 2 seperate brake lines from the fiddle brake MC to the brakes. During normal braking the the fiddle barke MCs just act as a T piece allowing fluid to flow freely to the brakes (like the T piece above the rear diff on land rovers). When a fiddle brake is operated, the fiddle brake MC inlet from the main MC is closed off, traping the fluid and as you continue to pull on the leaver, preasurising the trapped fluid which works the individual brake. Release the fiddle brake, the inlet valve opens again and the brake is reconnected to the foot peddal.
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ah i was told that you couldn't do that because all it would do is push the fluid into the reservoir
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fiddle breaks are not road legal as you have to have the fiddle breaks plumbed into the back and the foot petal does the front......I'm not going there!
as for lockers, i would go with the propper locker, the viscous units will never be as good as a true locking diff. sorry to say i think stev-o needs to think about what he is saying.....again! it all depends on the application both are as good as each other if used correctly. if you say that your diffs are on there way out then another alternative is diff pegging from ashcroft. they uprate all the materials and peg the crown wheel which improves the performance of the unit and also makes it last longer. also if you are looking at difflocks you will need uprated shafts, with all lockers in there is a possibility that only 1 wheel has traction therefor all power/torque is sent through that wheel.......causing havoc with shafts. ARB seem to be the thing people go for but i have seen a few posts here and there about how [!Expletive Deleted!] they are and the mcnamara ones are better.....don't know if its true its just what i hear(*read*) maxidrive i believe are doing good deals on shafts and locker kits. i hear there also pretty straightforward to fit. if i were you i would Peg the diffs and invest in a winch.....doesn't have to be a good one at the moment because when the time comes for you to need a good one( if you do need a good one ignore what i just said) then you can put the cheaper one in the back. hope that has helped.....i am full of more useless information if needed.
top facts again boss learning alot from u :)
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im now running over 3oo bhp ( im sure the gearbox gets worst every day ) so light attack off road all the time
what ever drugs you are on must be good
there is no waaaaaaaay you can have 300 ponies, :^o
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haha mike its me making the deeper hole ever time it sinks by flooring it. :lol: :lol: :lol:
as for high does ep90 count :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: god that stuff stinks
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ah i was told that you couldn't do that because all it would do is push the fluid into the reservoir
That was the way I've seen fiddle brakes pumbed. Stopping the fluid flowing back to the resevoir with fiddle breaks should be no more difficult than preventing it flowing back to the reservoir with a normal master cylinder.
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:off topic: do tell what you have done to achieve 300bhp. i would love to know! also, its not all about ultimate power :off topic:
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:off topic: do tell what you have done to achieve 300bhp. i would love to know! also, its not all about ultimate power :off topic:
I'd love to know too, as from what I've read to get to (and indeed past) 300bhp with a rover V8 you pretty much need a hand-built engine!
The things you find out when researching if you could get 500bhp from a 5l Rover V8 with twin turbos... :lol:
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Try reading the bit in brakets in his sig, might give you a clue
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Try reading the bit in brakets in his sig, might give you a clue
ha! i belive it when i see it!
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nice try to throw us off, its not a tvr its a rover v8 tvr used it and called it the 350i but its the same engine! you ass!
still awaiting info on how 300BHP is achieved!
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high pressure fuel pump, kn filter , twin core leads , stage 2 chipped , high rev camshaft, hd clutch list goes on and on and 240 to start with.
running on standard brakes and cooling system :| as for top whack eh 120+
5l tvr has 325bhp to start with they start from 4 k
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high pressure fuel pump, kn filter , twin core leads , stage 2 chipped , high rev camshaft, hd clutch list goes on and on and 240 to start with.
running on standard brakes and cooling system :| as for top whack eh 120+
5l tvr has 325bhp to start with they start from 4 k
then you will have at most 260 ish :lol:
i smell a large amount of BS
Ps i run ARB lockers as far as im concered they are the bubles
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high pressure fuel pump, kn filter , twin core leads , stage 2 chipped , high rev camshaft, hd clutch list goes on and on and 240 to start with.
running on standard brakes and cooling system :| as for top whack eh 120+
5l tvr has 325bhp to start with they start from 4 k
oh dear oh dear another boy racer turned offroader why do u need 300bhp?
i bet ur car looks at a puddle and conks out what a fool
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go for ARB - they are much better than detroit lockers. You can switch them in and out. I wouldnt compare a locker to having a winch either as they both do very different things. A locker will get you further into trouble and the winch is there to get you out!
Mr 300bhp V8 man, I am a little sceptical about what you say, I know that they have come along way but I do fail to see how you can pop down Halfords and simply buy the bits to give you 300bhp - why dont you prove it and post the scan of your rolling road print out?
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:roll: :roll: isnt the new supercharged 4.2 v8 gonna be 500 hp and electronic stuff as well :-k times have move on from oiler burner of the 60s :twisted:
seeing some advanced hybrid builds coming with hdc / tc / esc and other aids too.
besides underdrive units our here now .
lockers work if a wheel touchs the ground to make progress next steep long travel indenpendant suspension came before locker :-k
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im looking at both and on a budget, i was wondering who has either im looking for just the rear at the moment as i cant afford both the detroit locker is around £350 and i can fit it myself i have heard is good offroad and thats all im interested in i dont care about on road as i hardly ever use it onroad
secondly the arb i have heard great reports about it but then the cost goes up and it has to be fitted by someone else correct?
comments from anyone who has either
i am swayed towards the detroit due to cost
:roll: :roll: :roll: this section may help more :roll: :roll: :roll:
http://www.mud-club.com/forum/index.php/board,8.0.html
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Still cant see how you got 300 ponies out of a 3.5 v8?!?!?
I can remember years ago seeing a e30 bmw with a 4.0 rover v8 with quad 48mm throttle bodies, twin turbos, forged low comp pistons and a stand alone ecu and that made 400 bhp so im at a loss as to how you only have 100 bhp less?
My 3.9 v8 is meant to have 180bhp but i dare bet it puts out less than 150bhp!
Also you have a high rev cam?! So you have plenty of top end power which is brilliant for low rpm off roading!
I think you need to chop your disco in for a saxo 1.1 or something :lol:
Anyway back on track, i would say arb's all day long! A friend runs these with 35" simex's and standard halfshafts and cv's and they run fine! Its not what you've got (300bhp etc!) its how you use it!
Gavin.
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120mph in a lifted disco on standard brakes? Dave, for this reason if no other, I'm glad your miles away from the roads me and my family use pal. I've never been past 85 in mine and then about once. :police:
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120mph in a lifted disco on standard brakes? Dave, for this reason if no other, I'm glad your miles away from the roads me and my family use pal. I've never been past 85 in mine and then about once. :police:
85 that 3rd gear :lol: :lol: :lol: for me and yes drilled and vented brakes our on the list to do
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Seriously have a word with yourself pal!
120mph in a disco?Even with ,ahem, 300bhp i think you would be pushing it but seeing as you have got the worlds biggest roof rack on it, along with every other bit of tat possibly nailed on i reckon it wouldnt even make a ton.
Gavin.
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my 200tdi does 62 flat out by road angel lmao ( speedo cable snapped after 2 inch body lift) but its great for off roading as im only a beginner, my mate has a arb locker in his disco and says its great ( untill he pops it again ) the detriot locker is just basically a limited slip diff isnt it? as one wheel spins it locks the other to it?
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Meanwhile, back on thread ............. ;)
ARB's are probably the better option (plus you get onboard compressor - great for reinflation of tyres). They are switchable, so YOU decide when they're on or off. They do seem to be "high maintenance" though and often require attention and they are VERY expensive!
Detroits are "fit n forget" in terms of maintenance - just need to adjust driving style a little and they're a lot cheaper!!
I run a Detroit in the rear (open diff in front axle) - this coupled with good articulation gets me (almost) everywhere I need to go and my Disco gets used and abused almost every weekend. The only downside to a Detroit, is trying to make low speed turns in very slippery mud, it has a tendancy to 'push on' rather than let you make the turn.
Hopefully, that's helped with some of the pro's & con's for you .........
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I agree with the ARB, I'm going to be fitting one in the rear axel just to help out a little when I get stuck, I'm only running 31's and I don't want to change to the drive of the car, I just want a little extra traction when I need it, and an air compressor will be handy to.
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120mph in a lifted disco on standard brakes? Dave, for this reason if no other, I'm glad your miles away from the roads me and my family use pal. I've never been past 85 in mine and then about once. :police:
85 that 3rd gear :lol: :lol: :lol: for me and yes drilled and vented brakes our on the list to do
& your still a [ed: naughty] :lol: :lol: :lol:
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we have rolling road printouts of 199 hp out of our TD5 we got to 125.......it weren't a nice experience
steve-o i can see your going down the same road you did before you changed your screen name. stop chatting crap, and stop talking about other things to distract people from things YOU have said, admit you were wrong no one is going to hold it against you. i don't like being like this but some things have to be said! the forum is about exchanging information and opinion, asking for help etc. its not about who is the best. if you talk BS on here you will get pulled up on it! i don't mean to sound like a cock but i think with this said things may run more smoothly from now on.
again sorry but that's how i feel!
Mr. Alford sorry for hijacking
and if you have the facilities i would get an ARB
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sorry mate,i agree boss unless you have proof of course??????
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proof of what?
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proof of what?
that he has 300 ponies under the bonnet
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we have rolling road printouts of 199 hp out of our TD5 we got to 125.......it weren't a nice experience
I bet it wasn't! Not sure if the gearing is higher on a TD5 but I wouldn't take mine over 90 (on a track or rolling road). It'd probably do it, but I don't like to rev over 3k for any length of time and I would never even try to go past 4k.
Thing is, they're not geared for it. There's a reason the genuinely quick 4x4s out there have 500bhp or so and a lot of torque, it's so they can pull higher gears. A tweaked TDI can give them a bit of a shock at legal speeds because it has shorter gearing, but it'll fall behind when they speed up.
Can you guess I've been thinking about this for that 500bhp Cayenne-killing Disco sleeper project (that is unlikely to ever be built, but it's an interesting thought experiment and a man can dream) :lol:
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Boss :clap:
MrA, I think I may hate you for bringing up this thread, all I do at the moment is browse the t'internet looking at air lockers, I've been trying to ignore the desire to buy one as my other half will leave me if I spend any more money on the truck
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Get one bought you know you want to!!!!
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Boss :clap:
MrA, I think I may hate you for bringing up this thread, all I do at the moment is browse the t'internet looking at air lockers, I've been trying to ignore the desire to buy one as my other half will leave me if I spend any more money on the truck
ahhhh you see buddy, she cant see the lockers there fore they don't exist! :lol:
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I have got an ARB and swear by it - it can easily handle the 320bhp that my TDi has.
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bah! 320 my TDI has so much power that if i put my foot down i dont wheel spin the earth spins :afro: :lol:
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really wow?
what mods have you done to yours?
on mine I have removed the EGR, tweaked the fuel pump and fitted a K&N sticker to the slam panel.
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well what you do is take the head off and cram around 8 3/4 large-ish ponies in there then mount the gear box in the passinger seat which as we all know doubles the power, sacrifice a small goat on the dash THEN put the k&n sticker in! your doing it all wrong! :lol: :lol:
i would have more i just dont fancy dirving through halfords as thetford is a rough old place full of people with planet moving cars!
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the detriot locker is just basically a limited slip diff isnt it? as one wheel spins it locks the other to it?
Not a limited slip, more like an auto unlocker. There are no gears in the middle of a detriot, just a couple of toothed clutches, which are normally engadged unless one wheel wants to over run (like when turning a corner). They are designed so that only one clutch can disengaged at time. This link has a good picture of the internals
http://www.offroaders.com/tech/Detroit-Locker-automatic-lockers.htm
before you changed your screen name.
The penny dropped.
Boss I wounder whether he aught to try his luck on Pirate4x4? :twisted:
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sorry, don't get it, spoilt the joke me thinks. i am not on pirate....well i am but then realised it was full of americants! :lol:
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Basically from the little time I've spent on, it would appear what americans like more than beer and guns is ripping urine out of each other and the most common used smiley is one waving fingers. Still not as bad as another car forum where memebers started digging up personal info on a poster that was trying to get people to use his online gambling site, but still I wouldn't like to be on the reciving end of some of it.
Its still worth a visit mind because when they are being civilised some of the memebrs build some jaw droppingly awsome off roaders.
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well what you do is take the head off and cram around 8 3/4 large-ish ponies in there then mount the gear box in the passinger seat which as we all know doubles the power, sacrifice a small goat on the dash THEN put the k&n sticker in! your doing it all wrong! :lol: :lol:
i would have more i just dont fancy dirving through halfords as thetford is a rough old place full of people with planet moving cars!
Everyone knows that there are a handful of tried and trusted methods for turning any car into a tarmac-melting rocketship:
"Shopping list" of parts suppliers down the front doors. You don't need to have bought any of the parts, the stickers alone will give at least 20-40bhp each.
Rear wing/spoiler. Even on a front wheel drive car this will improve handling. Don't let anyone tell you that aerodynamic aids only start to make a difference at over 100mph. You can even just fit the supports and leave the wing itself off!
"Universal fit" back box the size of a dustbin. Never mind that the pipe it's connected to is still tiny, noise is power! The same goes for universal induction kits from Argos/Halfords. Worth at least 60bhp.
:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:
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your forgeting the most important accesory wearing the baseball cap back to front and being gobby :shock:
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Well I've just got into work and sat and read a few more posts and :clap: I'm currently pmsl :grin:
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Come on people, don't forget the electric turbos. At this price they must be good
http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/Electric-supercharger-turbo-PEUGEOT-106-306-206-GTI-205_W0QQitemZ320270072218QQihZ011QQcategoryZ72205QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem
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that is the stupidest thing i have ever seen! who ever buys one of them is a mug!
anyways, i have just taken the wires out for a kenlow that wasn't there(anymore) as we all know its not just power its weight as well! i reckon with that 25oz of crap removed i think i have bought my 0-60 time down to damn near 2.0000008586001 seconds and my power to weight ratio to 5000BEP per ton :shock:
.........that's right its so powerfull i have had to cancel the numbers of horses down to elephants! :lol:
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On a serious note, I know one of the big turbo manufacturers has been experimenting with motorised turbos. They work as per usual, just with a small motor to start them spinning. Supposedly this reduces lag as the turbo is already turning at a useful speed when the exhaust gases take over from the motor.
I fancy a ball-bearing turbo for mine, apparently they're so free running you can spin them just by blowing into the intake. Mind you, considering the 300TDI tends to melt if you go much over standard boost pressure I'm not sure there's much point! :lol:
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Although this thread has gone way off topic, what do people think of KAM electronic locking diffs as another alternative?
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nooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo! i have read so many threads and heard from so many people that they are a pain in the arse! there solenoid activated which as we all know can seize which is never a good thing! when it comes to things like this i always look at what other people are running because that is usually the best way to go....although i have been doing this allot lately and regretting it soon after......spec lists are almost identical!
and yes i have seen the electric turbo things before i have also noticed that allot of them require a hell of a lot of juice to power them. is it worth it?
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arb seems to be the most said oh haynes manual shows how to fit one .
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that manual was [!Expletive Deleted!]! it hasnt helped me at all!
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i agree the pics are more use then words just ...... least it wasnt black and white :roll:
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with lockers on it that a serious piece of kit however what happens when the grip runs out . :-$ where that rollcage u where gonna make a few months back anyway :roll:
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attach the winch and hope. the cage isnt happening at the moment, cant get it out the garage with out the hoop on it scraping the door :shocked:. also need the tooling and a diecint welder so im probibly going to take it to north offroad.
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take his down devils pit on the black course then :lol: read the rules first hint =;
not devils in clips just twin lockers
http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=QJGLTdSb-Gc .
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.....what? thats not devils pit, anyways that guy needs more flex, its nice having an arb but if you have a wheel on the ground and an arb the benifits greatley out weigh the cost of a cheap flex kit!