Mud-club
Vehicle & Technical => Defender => Topic started by: jimthelandyman on July 24, 2006, 19:40:29
-
Think my springs or my shocks are starting to go, the offside front looks to be down, theres no oil coming out of the shocks. So i think i am going to change springs and shocks but i want a 2 inch lift, is it a pain in the backside to change the suspension and would i need any other parts apart from the new suspension components such as new nuts and bolts etc.?
-
It's not too bad a job, and you shouldn't need anything else, but it's not unknown for the studs on the shock turret mounting rings to shear so a pair of them might be a worthwhile purchase. Shock turrets themselves do rot eventually but you should be able to assess them before you start, and get some if necessary. You might also need extended brake hoses.
Regards
Wolfie
-
Cheers wolfie, does anyone know where toget good deal on a 2 inch lift kit preferably as cheap as possible as i have a limited amount of cash.
-
Isn't it odd I took a so called 2" lift kit off my Defender and it handled much better off road. I do have longer shocks which presumably gives better droop but I've always felt that the standard setup was really good.
I'd save your money for other bits and bobs myself.
Mike
-
This seems like good kit http://www.paddockspares.com/pp/OFF_ROAD/Coil_Springs_and_Kits/Plus_2_Inch_Lift_Kit_for_Defender_90_(up_to_1998).html
-
Blocks would offer a cheap +2" but if springs are tired the new ones would be better.
4x4 mail order seem best value for +2" springs and shocks but MM4x4 offer fuller kit for similar money.
I am getting springs, shock, turret rings and cones from them but I always get my brake lines from LLAMHA 4X4.
He makes them to any length and offers excalent value.
I am getting 1.6 metre for the front and +5" for the rear
His email is david@llama4x4.co.uk
Hope that helps
-
RE the brake hoses on a defender the postiion they are in that if all you are fitting is a +2 lift the standard hoses are more than suitable,if i remove my front shocks & lift the motor till the panhard rod binds & doesnt allow any more flex the brake hoses still have an inch or so left in them,if you are fitting a huge lift then change them,
Also whilst im here any lift on a disco requires longer hoses due to where they come off the body
-
I am extending my panhard rod and may go 3 link later so saves getting new lines then.
Stainless braided also eliminates fade as they dont expand as much
( hence why biker fit them)
Not as relevent on a brick but nice to know they will last to
-
the hoses dont make any difference to the fade propertys of the brakes,however they do give a firmer pedal due to them expanding less under pressure,
Also dont weld the axle with the earth clamp on the chassis as the hose's are a really good earth conductor,just a pity you cant remove them after :lol:
-
Dont plan on welding the axle !
Well hope not anyway ! :)
-
Just put the landy in a big axle twister to find that the brake lines run to the diff on both axles and then a hose up from there are these the ones that need extending?
-
do they run down the prop or radius arms ?
If they do then they should be ok.
I am running mine down the front radius arms(1.6 metres long) and +5" on the rear.
should be ok. 8)
-
I've always felt that the standard setup was really good.
I'd save your money for other bits and bobs myself.
Mike
Me too...........
-
I agree in principle as LR spent time and money building a vehicle to have a balance of on and off road quility.
I am using mine mainly offroad so want to improve that side of things.
As i make a lot of my own parts I save anyway so can still get those extras I want.
If I see something I like I generally make it but obviously things like winches, springs and shocks I cant make so have to buy.
Its all down to choice and budget for the indevidual.
Yours seems to perform well though on a standard set up ! 8)
-
I'm not sure what you guys with the extreme setups even do.
I know some of you do challenge events and they do work a machine hard, very few seem to do trails which can be in some ways as demanding as the route from A to B has been chosen for you. And I think many more go laning but I've never really felt the need of anything beyond stock setup. Then again maybe I lead a sheltered life!
There's play days I guess but my experience of these is that trials tend to take you on dafter routes than most people follow on play days.
Still each to his and her own - now while I think of it I'll just take that snorkel off! Why would I want a wet bum?
Mike
-
This seems like good kit http://www.paddockspares.com/pp/OFF_ROAD/Coil_Springs_and_Kits/Plus_2_Inch_Lift_Kit_for_Defender_90_(up_to_1998).html
Jim,
I used those springs on my challange 90. I was really happy with their suppleness for off road flex and the on-road characteristics weren't bad either. I originally had de-carbon shocks but both the rears snapped on the top eye on their first competition outing. I immediately switch to pro-comps with no probs. In short, I'd recommend the kit in the Paddocks package.
Dave
-
Hi Jim.
I echo Divster's opinion on the Paddock kit. I've had it fitted for a year now with the Procomp shocks. Fantastic. I use the vehicle a lot off road and for the price of that kit can't complain.
You shouldn't need extended brake lines, however I will be fitting some myself soon as part of a brake overhaul.
One thing to consider is the state of the lower rear coil mounts on the axle. On my truck (93 tdi), they looked as though they'd been in the sea for years and promptly fell off with the coils!! If this is the case don't dispare as Paddock also do repair mounts for the axle. A real pain though as it'll vehicle off road for a while!
Cheers,
Jez
-
i also do challenge events, got paddocks kit and you cannot nock it 1 year after the build and its still got a genuin 2 inch lift and hasnt started sagging, and thats with twin winches rollcage and all the rest of the S*** u need for comps
as for breaklines i need +5 inch lines for mine as the suspention setup lets say, has been modified slightly :lol:
danny
-
If you have a read of this thread (http://forums.mud-club.com/viewtopic.php?t=23034) it will give you some ideas.
Paul
-
I've always felt that the standard setup was really good.
I'd save your money for other bits and bobs myself.
Mike
Me too...........
thats cus ur a tight northener :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :wink: :wink: :wink: :P :P
-
Has anyone mentioned upgrading the radius arms?
I fitted a Scorpion +2 inch lift on my defender and noticed an immediate effect on the steering. It felt much lighter which worried me a bit.
I have got some QT radius arms now however that vehicle is going through a full rebuild so can't say too much about how good they are, but most approve.
The sag on the front axle seems to be a fact of Landrover life. I have a complete new suspension system on the front and it still leans to one side.
I do wonder if this is down to the old panhard rod. Surely if you raise the suspension the panhard rod needs extending as well?
Just a thought!
-
I re cranked and castored my own arms.
I also did the rears to save the bushes.
I have done the sums and its about 5mm difference on the panhard rod for a +2" lift so hardly worth it. Would make some difference but obviously minimal.
What QT arms did you get ?
-
Has anyone mentioned upgrading the radius arms?
I have got some QT radius arms now however that vehicle is going through a full rebuild so can't say too much about how good they are, but most approve.
errm :roll: u did get the improved arms right ? cuz the arms with the fancy little holes in 4 show like to bend time to time :roll:
but does depend on what kind of offroading your doing
danny
-
I have done the sums and its about 5mm difference on the panhard rod for a +2" lift so hardly worth it.
EXCUSE ME!!!
Who did the sums!?!? :evil:
-
I have a 2 inch lift and mine sits level. Its down to what springs you have. With the OME ones, and others, the drivers side is slighley taller. When fitted it makes the LR sit level. Some of the cheaper springs are not handed and are the same hight.
I have fitted cranked rear arms but not front. I was told that not all LRs need them. But if you do Gwyn Lewis will dose LR ones rebent to suit a life, on an exchange basis.
Paul
-
I have done the sums and its about 5mm difference on the panhard rod for a +2" lift so hardly worth it.
EXCUSE ME!!!
Who did the sums!?!? :evil:
pipe down eh :lol:
-
mine was way out :? and my m8 has the same kit as me and his is ok :? hmm land rovers
-
errm :roll: u did get the improved arms right ? cuz the arms with the fancy little holes in 4 show like to bend time to time :roll:
but does depend on what kind of offroading your doing
danny
It's all QT have sold since they discovered the original problem after selling a few sets. .......and they all have holes in.
Having seen some of our top off-road racers trash their cars around the radius arms, I think they're fairly tough now!
Also, in an I-section beam you can make little holes without compromising integrity whilst reducing mass. Check out structural steel work. :wink:
cheers
8)
Eeyore
-
It's all QT have sold since they discovered the original problem after selling a few sets. .......and they all have holes in.
cheers
8)
Eeyore
how come a a friend from a tyre place purchased some from m&m4x4 3 weeks ago and bent one this weekend ?
heighly doubt a faulty batch as QT set very high standards
old stock maybe :?
or just a tyre place owner driving like a d******* as they do
help appreciated on this one as he aint a happy bunny :shock:
danny
-
help appreciated on this one as he aint a happy bunny :shock:
danny
Cripes, mate. :shock:
Let QT know pronto, they will take a profound interest and they will wanna bottom it out (they are very good with any questions / issues people may have).
The last time I saw one bend was after a 60mph collision with a tree. To be fair, it shortened one side of a Tomcat by 9" too.
HTH
cheers
8)
Eeyore
-
The last time I saw one bend was after a 60mph collision with a tree. To be fair, it shortened one side of a Tomcat by 9" too.
HTH
cheers
8)
Eeyore
OUCH any1 hurt ?
from what i gather he said to me he was going up a v shape gully and fron axle started to articulate then slipped down the gulley and the axle decided it wanted to go a different way to everything else passenger bent upwards drivers downwards :shock: 10 outta 10 4 effort i say :P
he has already spoken to m&m and they are replacing them free of charge so i thing somethin dodgey going on at m&m :?
danny
-
OUCH any1 hurt ?
Nah. But dang, his pride took the beating of a lifetime. As did his nearside wing! :lol: Oddly, he now races on that odd, tarmac stuff. The tree was released from the medical centre follwoing a routine check.
from what i gather he said to me he was going up a v shape gully and fron axle started to articulate then slipped down the gulley and the axle decided it wanted to go a different way to everything else passenger bent upwards drivers downwards :shock: 10 outta 10 4 effort i say :P
he has already spoken to m&m and they are replacing them free of charge so i thing somethin dodgey going on at m&m :?
danny
Defo 10 out of 10 for effort.
Couldn't comment on M&M (his second album was his best :wink: ), but it usually takes some act of violence to duff one o' them arms. Seems like a positive outcome though. Hopefully he'll get more mileage out of the new ones.
cheers
8)
Eeyore
-
yes, hopefully, never had a problem with my scorpion ones tho :wink:
eventho everyone h8s scorpion !!!! i luv em cant knock colin and roz great treatment keep regulars happy they do just like simon at d4x4 he keeps his customers sweet
well thanks for that eeyore
-
ive seen one o them arms being bent by the fron axle stopping in a hole & the chassis going sideways twisting the arms
-
eventho everyone h8s scorpion !!!! i luv em cant knock colin and roz great treatment keep regulars happy they do just like simon at d4x4 he keeps his customers sweet
ahhhhhhhh that's nice to know! :cry: :cry: So sweet of you to say. Not sure I see the relevance of mentioining it on this thread, but you probably feel they get such a bad press from non regulars.
Don't think it's fair to Devon 4x4 to compare their great reputation with SR's though! :roll: :roll:
back to the post..
As mentioned above the paddock kits have a good reputation, so do the Britpart ones. Britpart also do a 1.5" kit.
It seems to be a bit variable but with a 2" lift you risk affecting castor angle and propshaft angle. Castor will make the steering feel vague around centre, especially at motorway speeds. This can be corrected cheaply with castor corrected bushes, more expensively with castor corrected radius arms, and even more expensively, but best way is corrected swivels. All work ok. Correcting castor with bushes and arms has caused prop vibrations on some Defenders.
If you end up with prop vibrations to cure it you'll need a new prop. Either DC one or wide angle.
When changing out springs, soak everything in WD40 for a couple of days before a few times. You might as well replace all bolts. I would change out turret rings for heavy duty ones while you are there and chack front shock turrets as standard ones are prone to rust. For the cost too, I would change out spring retainers for HD items too. All of this can be ordered from Paddock.
Your Shocks do not affect your ride height, just the springs. To check shocks, jump up and down on each corner :wink: and check for damping effect. If ok, you can leave shocks alone for now - if you fit longer springs though you will need longer shocks to maintain the same level of suspension travel.
A word of caution when fitting longer shocks, like +5" inch ones mentioned above. Fitting +5" shocks on +2" lifted Defender means that you now have +3" of shock travel. If your radius arms allow you to use this, your brake lines will be further stretched and without looking at upward shock travel and bump stops you may be pushing the shocks past their upward travel point. This will soon knacker your shocks.
If you don't want to worry about any of this and want to leave suspension travel as standard then fit shocks that are same length over standard as your springs.
Cheers
Steve
-
If you end up with prop vibrations to cure it you'll need a new prop. Either DC one or wide angle.
To follow on from Steve's handy post, independent of how you choose to manipulate your caster angles, lifting a vehicle will cause accelerated wear on the prop UJs. I can't remember the exact numbers (long time ago) but for every additional 5 degrees of angle, the wear rate on a UJ increases by somethig like an order of magnitude. A DC prop will halve the working angle on the UJs at the transfer box end, meaning they'll last longer. A wide yolk prop has a wider working envelope (it can work at a greater angle without binding), but won't last much longer than a standard prop as the working angles don't change (same rate of wear).
My preference would be to go for a DC prop first, unless your building in a lot more flex into the suspension. In which case, a wide yoke, DC prop would be just the ticket (and they are readily available courtesy of Saginaw for reasonable money) - best o' both worlds. :wink:
If you do want to change the prop, try to steer clear of the big retailers and go to either a specialist prop maker or scour the 2nd hand market - you'll save a small fortune. :wink:
HTH
cheers
8)
Eeyore