Mud-club
Vehicle & Technical => Series Land Rovers => Topic started by: Porny on May 30, 2007, 22:34:23
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Series 3 Upgrade and Modernisation
Not my Land Rover, but I've offered to do the work around my normal job.
I'm sure he will be along shortly but the Series belongs to Johnathan (Ser3 J). He is currently in Afghanistan, but the aim is to have the Land Rover finished for his return around September time.
The Land Rover:
A very nice Series 3 Station Wagon.
All very standard Series - i.e. 2¼ petrol, 4 speed gearbox, overdrive etc etc.
It all started with the purchase of a set of jump leads (and the sale of his Disco to my brother), a few questions :wink: and it evolved from there.
The current plan (which may change considerably when I've sent Johnathan some pics) is for the following spec:
Disco 200Tdi Engine
Defender spec LT77s Gearbox
Series Transfer box with adaptor kit to fit the above gear box (so keeping part time four wheel drive)
Custom Stainless steel exhaust
Full Internal Roll Cage (custom made)
Rear Bulkhead removal
Twin Fuel Tanks (but with external filler on both sides)
Military Spec gearbox crossmember
Four Point Front Harnesses (to suit Johnathans very nice tracker/cobra reclining seats)
Front and rear battery points – anderson plugs (and a set of jump leads)
Deep Dish LR 2b Steel wheels
Swing away wheel carrier
Period looking snorkel
And a few bits I've missed
Basically the aim is to create a sleeper/Q car Series 3 - that has the appearance of a Series 3.but is very different underneath!! But all done in an 'as factory' style.
Ian
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Part 1 collection of the Land Rover:
Lets look at the logistics:
Johnathan is currently in Afghanistan so quite a few thousand miles away, the Series 3 is in Elgin and I live in the Midlands which are not close either!!
So a plan was hatched. The original idea was for me to fly up to Scotland but due to me choosing a Bank Holiday weekend, the cost shot up considerably. So plan B - go up on the train, and drive the S3 home (hoping that it made it!!)
On paper the train journey didn't look too bad - 10.5 hours and two changes. Plenty of time to read a book (and various LR mags).
If only it was that simple, but I won't bore everyone with the details (including having to sit next to a woman with bladder problems) - I finally got to Elgin train station (in a Taxi) at 12.20am over two hours later than stated on my ticket.
At least I didn't have to wait long for Johnathans lovely wife Hannah to pick me up. (Note to self it's blinking cold in Scotland at 12.20am!!!)
Morning came and the Series 3 was prepared for the jounery south.
Wheels on, fluids checked and a visit to the petrol station and we on the move.
After Edinburgh the normal route would be down the motorway, but instead I headed the A68 and stopped Nr Lincoln over night at my girlfriends parents. The A roads seemed a better option than the monotonous motorway.
So 456 miles later (or just over 10 hours of Driving) I arrived in Brigg/
Monday afternoon saw the last bit of the drive only 117 miles and I was home.
So 573 miles in two days and the Land Rover had performed faultlessly throughout!! (apart the Speedo and fuel gauge deciding they didn't want to work!!) Not bad for an old Series 3 that has been layed up for a few months!!
So now the fun begins!!!
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Well,
What can I say? Those pictures make my truck look far too good! And it amazes me how green everything is back at home. :wink:
Iv been in this hot and dusty place for 3 months now and this crazy plan has been building (It must be the sun). Ian has gone above and beyond to travel way (way) up north and survived the trip back.
So now it starts... Watch this space. A first look has revealed a few 'issues' - not least a slightly ropey rear chassis :roll:
Some may ask - what am I (Or rather Ian 8) ) doing throwing all this work (and money :oops: ) at a regular old Ser 3? Simple - I want a leaf sprung little truck that will last another 20 years that I can fix with a handful of spanners!
Ian - Over to you mate!! 8)
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Sounds a very interesting project, keep us posted !! With piccies of course :)
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Part 2 Inspection:
Hrmm.... amazing what waxoil and hammerite can hide!!!
First job was to have a good look round the Land Rover (and have a good poke) to find all the good and bad points.
On the plus side:
The Series 3 is probably one of the better ones I've driven. The steering wheel is actually connected to the wheels lol :lol: and it doesn't have loads of free play/slack.
All the running gear appears to be fine, the engine runs as sweet as, and all the gears work as they should (bit irrelevant though, as all being changed).
Body work wise... apart from a couple of 'character' dents, it is very straight and fairly original - even the doors shut very well and are not rotten!!
The bulkhead has a few blisters, but nothing that can't be sorted out before they get any worse.
And then the chassis.... and the not so good points.
As shown in the photographs, the rear crossmember is well past its best, as is the drivers front chassis leg and some of the passenger front chassis leg (usual place behind the bumper). One of the rear spring mounts has been bodged up in the past and the main rails do have considerable surface rust - and in places are thin, especially around the fuel tank (allows mud/dirt to collect).
Before I started poking it, the crossmember looked fine - apart from flaking paint... is amazing what thick paint will hide!
So - we could fit a new rear crossmember (or even plate the existing one - although it is starting to blow apart as well), new front chassis legs and patch up everywhere else needed - and we would end up with a serviceable, but not 100% perfect chassis - that will last a good few years. Parts wise, all the main bits would come to about £100 – plus any additional steelwork. But it would take a while to get the whole chassis up to a good standard.
Or the second option, although more expensive in the short term, is to fit a replacement brand new galvanised chassis. This will then probably outlast the rest of the LR lol....
Johnathan has already decided that he wanted a full internal roll cage, and there is no point in welding a cage onto a rusty chassis!!
To do it properly if you're fitting a cage the chassis (and the metal you're welding to) needs to be 100% spot on - or if the worse did happen you will very quickly find any weak spots in the chassis :shock:
There is also the added benefit that the chassis can be made with a military spec gearbox crossmember (along with a couple of other modifications) which will cut down the things I need to do - and thus time taken.
After considering all the options, Johnathan has decided the best long term solution is to go with a brand new chassis... the plan is to keep the Series for a long time - so he is taking the philosophy do it once, do it right.
So just need to order one now, and the strip down can commence.
Ian
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A couple of extra pictures....
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And that ladies and gentlemen is what happens when you buy with your heart and not your head :oops:
Some history - I bought the Series just under a year ago to replace my 300Tdi late Disco 1 (Which I sold to Chris - Ian's brother) - I wanted a proper Landy 8) :
To be fair - the previous owner was a really nice guy - he had owned a number of Series vehicles and this had been his best. The running gear is all good - the suspension and brakes had all been replaced. He even put on some 7.50 cross-ply tyres with brand new wheels (to lighten the steering). The engine is super-sweet and the OD is also very good. Details like the replaced rear window channels all sold it.
BUT - I should have poked harder (or at all :o ) at the chassis...
(Expensive) lesson learned :lol: Im sure there are many out there shaking their heads :wink: But hey - sometimes we all do silly things - and yes i knew the problem areas and have some experience with rust!
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Still a very good idea to have a galvanised chassis. Even on a landy with a good chassis. Atleast the Series will last another 30 years 8) I'l be watching this over the coming months as i'm hoping to get something similar done to mine.
Darren
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very interesting little project. keeping my eyes peeled for more updates.
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how you gonna do the lt77 and series transfer box? i would love to do that to mine.
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how you gonna do the lt77 and series transfer box? i would love to do that to mine.
That would be telling.... :wink:
I was going to use blue tack, toilet rolls and a bit of duct tape...
But instead I've got hold of a kit as per Ashcrofts - see here: http://www.ashcroft-transmissions.co.uk/part_66.html
Does mean you have to put the engine slightly further forward, but this shouldn't cause any major issues.
The other option is to convert a Defender LT230 transfer box to selectable 4x4 as per the very early 110's. But this setup is longer still and does require a few more mods.
Ian
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But instead I've got hold of a kit as per Ashcrofts - see here: http://www.ashcroft-transmissions.co.uk/part_66.html
if only i'd known about that when i had an lt77 box sat in my stores.
dont think i have the 4" to spare now :(
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But instead I've got hold of a kit as per Ashcrofts - see here: http://www.ashcroft-transmissions.co.uk/part_66.html
if only i'd known about that when i had an lt77 box sat in my stores.
dont think i have the 4" to spare now :(
The Americans like doing the same thing too... but use a R380 box. The short bellhousing type R380 is very rare though!!
http://www.eastcoastrover.com/5speed.html
ian_s have you got a picture of your engine bay with the 200Tdi fitted?
Ian
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not at the moment, no
i will get some tomorrow for you.
there are things i did that i would do differently tho, will post more details about that when i post the photos
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no wonder i can't get any work done on bloody car if he's playing with yours... :lol: ,
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Yes!! :lol:
Ian is now fully booked until Sept at least... :wink:
As with any project - this one seems to be growing by the day. Did someone mention a new galv bulkhead?! :o
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As with any project - this one seems to be growing by the day. Did someone mention a new galv bulkhead?! :o
Wonder who mentioned that then.... lol.
Ian
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:roll: Hmmmm :roll:
Im not sure if it was pixies or the voices... :wink:
Still - i great idea!! 8)
Anyone any ideas on anything we havnt thought of?
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:roll: Hmmmm :roll:
Im not sure if it was pixies or the voices... :wink:
Still - i great idea!! 8)
Anyone any ideas on anything we havnt thought of?
Galvanised fuel tank?
Darren
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Fuel tank guard, then you can start selling them as there's a bit of a gap in the market for Series tank covers...
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off topic.........where would ya be able to get jold of the AIR SCOOPS, for the series range...similar to the defender ones...but circular
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off topic.........where would ya be able to get jold of the AIR SCOOPS, for the series range...similar to the defender ones...but circular
you mean air scoops or a snorkel? air scoops arent required for a series, and you'd need to buy defender ones.
Series snorkels are usually homemade with guttering and flexi pipe, and a lot of silicon etc. but you can buy a "Universal" one that "Will fit" from Mantec for about £70-£80. snorkels on Series 3's require some modification to stuff in your engine bay. ask someone who has a series 3 snorkel.
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as promised heres some pics of my engine bay
(http://slh.zapto.org/pics/landy/_800x800/DSCF2461.JPG)
(http://slh.zapto.org/pics/landy/_800x800/DSCF2462.JPG)
(http://slh.zapto.org/pics/landy/_800x800/DSCF2463.JPG)
not sure how much help this will be as you said you were going to have to fit the engine 4 inches further forward. i think that means you will have to alter the front chassis cross member to clear, and also mount the rad and intercooler some other way.
while you are at it, you may as well move the crossmember forward a lot and fit PAS from a defender too.
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not sure how much help this will be as you said you were going to have to fit the engine 4 inches further forward. i think that means you will have to alter the front chassis cross member to clear, and also mount the rad and intercooler some other way.
while you are at it, you may as well move the crossmember forward a lot and fit PAS from a defender too.
Cheers for the pictures Ian....
Actually have had a slight change in plans (after talking to the bloke who designed my series transfer box adaptor kit) the engine is staying the standard place, but instead the gearbox and transfer box is being moved back. This does mean that the rear prop will be a custom affair (front has an adaptor) but if you move the engine forward, under max articulation there is a possibilty of the axle touching the harmonic damper pulley. Also means no mods to the chassis - i.e. the engine/gearbox locations.
Don't give Johnathan ideas about PAS!! :shock:
Hopefully he doesn't want it as it would be something else to go wrong... plus properly set-up I don't find the steering set-up that bad or heavy on a Series.
Ian
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Galv tanks...
Tank guards...
PAS...
:twisted:
Guess what Ian? :wink:
Only kidding!! Galv tanks/guards may be worth looking at - though we had considered stainless tanks (f&$cking expensive) - they would have to wait until phase 2 - ie after I have sold the wife/dog etc.. 8)
IMHO PAS is for girls :P (ducking now)
The steering on my little truck is spot on - and it feels right - ie a bit of effort = good. TBH if i wanted PAS/coils I would have gone for a 90 - I obviously just enjoy the ?pain? :wink:
ian_s - many thanks for the pics.
[/b]Keep the comments coming folks
Johnathan
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IMHO PAS is for girls :P (ducking now)
The steering on my little truck is spot on - and it feels right - ie a bit of effort = good. TBH if i wanted PAS/coils I would have gone for a 90 - I obviously just enjoy the ?pain? :wink:
Johnathan[/b]
Try driving one with 33" tyres :shock: Then say the steering is spot on :lol: Keep the pictures and info coming lads. This is going to be a brilliant thread as it goes on.
Darren
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i've just realised how filthy my engine bay is.
needs a damn good clean
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off topic.........where would ya be able to get jold of the AIR SCOOPS, for the series range...similar to the defender ones...but circular
you mean air scoops or a snorkel? air scoops arent required for a series, and you'd need to buy defender ones.
Not entirely true.
I got my series air scoop from Innovation 4X4, but they don't seem to be advertising them at the moment.
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v604/piercednutter/Snorkel2.jpg)
It's that circular thing below the snorkel and increases airflow though the heater (allegedly)
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Galv tanks...
IMHO PAS is for girls :P (ducking now)
Johnathan[/b]
Try telling my right elbow that after trialling yesterday. It had so much contact with the door I thought the two were welded together
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Try telling my right elbow that after trialling yesterday. It had so much contact with the door I thought the two were welded together
:wink: It is a little tight Matt... And Im going to get a full internal cage fitted as well :?
Considered an external front section but I just don't think it looks right on a Series?
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And Im going to get a full internal cage fitted as well :?
I was wondering about that!!!!
I have an internal roll cage fitted and thought about making up the rest. I presume you would locate the bars to the chassis where the bulk head joins but what route would they take? You'd have to cut some dash away wouldn't you?
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Matt,
Im not completely sure what route the cage will take but it will include a sort of shaped door bar - Im sure Ian will be along to explain all!
I do know that the dash will have to be trimmed a bit at both ends and that the heater controls will have to be moved. I am also losing the behind-seat bulkhead to allow a little more seat travel and to mount harnesses on the roll cage... As soon as we get to that stage we will post pics - but its a while off!!
Any chance you can post some pics of your engine bay? We are trying to get the neatest solution and any help would be great :wink:
Your truck looks to have some nice touches - did you have to cut much of the gearbox tunnel to get the g'box in?
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Ok here is my engine bay - I'm still unsure where the airfilter will go so its just strapped to the top at the mo.. Most likly I'll take out the heater and slot it in under the wing.
I'm using a Disco Rad with a 300 intercooler mounted infront. As the turbo is lower you have to clock the exit pipe and the exhaust was a bit of a bitch. Steve Parker took a template of mine and it now selling them so that should make it easier
The LT77 meant cutting the seat box a bit and bending out some new tabs to attach to the tunnel. The made up a new tunnel as the orginal just wasn't going to fit (using the side of an old fridge acutally). Bit of a play with some still card to make a template, cut and bend, drill some holes and that's it.
I haven't made it quite wide enough to cover the hole in the drivers floor (Hi/lo stick) so I'll do it again sometime. Prop shafts are fun - the rear one is really short!!!
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Matt,
Many thanks! That looks like a really neat job. I think Ian has a plan for the exhaust (Stainless) - though I know the manifold pipe is a @ugger. I had only just realised that the rear prop was going to have to be shorter - fortunately, Ian had anticipated that as well! 8)
Ok here is my engine bay - I'm still unsure where the airfilter will go so its just strapped to the top at the mo.. Most likly I'll take out the heater and slot it in under the wing.
- This is also yet to be decided and more challenging since I want a snorkle...
Now to work on the LT77... :?
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Sorry for no updates lately...
Have been moving house and lying by the swimming pool on holiday in Italy 8)
Has been a couple of changes/updates:
Chassis has been ordered - brand new galvanised chassis from Marslands. Complete with 2.5/Tdi engine mounts, twin fuel tank mounts, removeable gearbox crossmember... and a couple of other things.
Engine - still a 200Tdi :D
But is now going to be a Defender spec 200Tdi rather than the Disco engine that was bought to go in. The Disco engine that was going in is now being shipped to Canada.
Bulkhead - the original one does have some rust issues :wink: - so is being replaced with a new galvanised jobbie.
Ian
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Sorry for no updates lately...
You are forgiven :lol:
I for one don't mind the wait for a good read!
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Greetings all :P
Sorry for the lack of posts - Im still away and Porny (Ian) is a busy bloke!!
Some progress - The Richards chassis has arrived! Ian says it looks great - and it has been modded as required. Other changes - it looks like we may be having front and rear disc brakes - but keeping series axles...
Pics and details to follow as we have them. :twisted:
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Greetings all :P
Sorry for the lack of posts - Im still away and Porny (Ian) is a busy bloke!!
Some progress - The Richards chassis has arrived! Ian says it looks great - and it has been modded as required. Other changes - it looks like we may be having front and rear disc brakes - but keeping series axles...
Pics and details to follow as we have them. :twisted:
lol....
The Richards chassis has arrived!.... has it?? There's me thinking I picked it up from Marslands :wink:
As pointed out, the chassis looks absolutely spot on!!
Will post some pictures as soon as I get chance, once I've got the new chassis into a 'rolling state' bits will be swapped over, and then it's off to have the roll cage fitted.
Ian
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The Richards chassis has arrived!.... has it?? There's me thinking I picked it up from Marslands
:oops: Easily confused I am!
Emmm yes - the magic fairy (:wink:) made it arrive.. and since i am 1000s of miles away then really it was always there? :P
Thanks Ian :D (Not at all fairy like.....)
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...and since i am 1000s of miles away then really it was always there?
Ahh, the theory of relitivity, always a good excuse...
good to hear the progress, was geting worried lol
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Right then....
A bit of an update and some more pictures!!
Part 3 - Strip Down:
Have now got a massive pile of bits.... and a massive pile of rust and mud :wink:
Also found a few more problems along the way :shock:
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More pics..... And the new chassis.....
we'll get to the probelms in a bit.
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Problems then.... usual areas:
Mainly rear tub and seatbox... also a good job it's having a new bulkhead!!
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:roll: Oh dear...... :(
Some would say that for a 26 year old truck this isnt bad... But wow - I feel sick... You know the warm feeling that you are driving a fairly tidy truck - loved, cared for... Paid good money - then- oh my. :oops:
:roll: :cry: :cry: :cry:
The iceberg principle was ignored - do that at your peril :wink:
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shame all the early pictures have gone :(
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:x yeah - they were lost in the server problems :roll:
Porny may still have them - if so then we could always stick them in the gallery... :P
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:x yeah - they were lost in the server problems :roll:
Porny may still have them - if so then we could always stick them in the gallery... :P
As if by magic... have just been doing it!!!
Ian
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Couple more pics....
The tub has been restored at some point its life... by Stevie Wonder.. :wink:
Looks good from the outside... but when you look a bit closer you realise it's not held together that well - spot the missing rivits!!
Also... spot the filler in the bulkhead pic..
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I’ve been helping Ian out over the last couple of weeks changing some of the bigger stuff….
Ian’s lacking in the updates…. But quite a bit has changed!! Sure he will be along shortly to explain.
matty
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delete me please
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delete me please
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Matty,
We havnt met - but thanks!!! You and Ian are doing a cracking job!!! :wink:
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its no problem :D
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I have no idea how your managing to work on cars whilst taking L.S.D.
(http://forums.mud-club.com/files/dscf2934_edited_198.jpg)
:lol:
Keep up the good work Ian and helper Matt :wink:
I do like seeing Series being reborn
8)