Mud-club
Vehicle & Technical => Defender => Topic started by: flash42 on June 01, 2008, 13:11:22
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been looking around on the net, and some companies reckon that fitting an uprated intercooler will increase the bhp by around 30hp. is it worth the 300 odd quid that it costs.
cheers
flash
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YES
with the right mods on a 300tdi 160+bhp is achievable for not a lot of wedge
i currently run a FMIC, full exhaust Tweaked pump & boost & make approx 150bhp out of a 200tdi
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to get that much power out of it, how much would you need to spend, and would it cause alot of wear and tear on the engine.
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Mines got an Alisport one, but the same physical dimensions as the standard one - inside is a lot bigger though.
I would think it makes a lot of difference - i would imagine a full length one would be even better :)
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yes they make a real increase in performance. In a diesel engine, for optimal performance you want the air as cold as you can, so the bigger your intercooler the cooler your air/exhaust gas the more power you'll get. much of this is due to the fact air gets denser as the temp decreases. also adding a forced air intake and a fine meshed airfilter will get you a few bhp, best 'ram air' for a 4x4 is prob a safari snokal as it fets the higher cooler air agin increasing performance and economy
andy
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yes they make a real increase in performance. In a diesel engine, for optimal performance you want the air as cold as you can, so the bigger your intercooler the cooler your air/exhaust gas the more power you'll get. much of this is due to the fact air gets denser as the temp decreases. also adding a forced air intake and a fine meshed airfilter will get you a few bhp, best 'ram air' for a 4x4 is prob a safari snokal as it fets the higher cooler air agin increasing performance and economy
andy
heh almost word perfect manufacturer advert for intercooler, safari and K&N
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:lol: :lol: :lol:
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*****BUMP*****
Does anyone know if the standard intercooler from a late Td5 is any better than that on the 300Tdi? Just that one of works' rovers just got the full chip and intercooler upgrade (over 200BHP now :shock:) and the original is now going spare :twisted:
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I'm no physicist but I reckon that the snorkel will make little difference to a turbo engine - the intake is compressed by the turbo, so a little higher pressure pre-turbo might help it to spin up a bit quicker but in practice I doubt whether it will equate to more boost pressure, so it's unlikely to make more power/torque. Same number or air/fuel molecules going in per given volume = same power out, all things being equal.
Certainly when I fitted one to a standard 300tdi 90 I couldn't really tell much difference in the real world. Perhaps any small improvement was counteracted by the small increase in aerodynamic drag? If you want to go wading or driving across the desert, by all means fit a snorkel but for performance improvements, save your money - That's half the cost of your intercooler found! (And there's no way that you wouldn't be able to tell the difference with a good intercooler and the fuel pump mods done by someone who knows)
On the subject of 'someone who knows', have a word with Porny on here, he's good ;-)
G
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Also have you seen how small the aperature is on a 300tdi air intake just behind the wing...its tiny, at least a third of the size of intake on the safari.
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I'm no physicist but I reckon that the snorkel will make little difference to a turbo engine - the intake is compressed by the turbo, so a little higher pressure pre-turbo might help it to spin up a bit quicker but in practice I doubt whether it will equate to more boost pressure, so it's unlikely to make more power/torque. Same number or air/fuel molecules going in per given volume = same power out, all things being equal.
The pressure at the inlet manifold/plenum is regulated by the waste gate actuator, so airbox pressure really can't make any difference, besides, we did an experiment to prove that "ram air" is bunk which it is.
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im not an expert on tuning diesel engines but have had plenty of experience with 400bhp sierra cosworths!!!
the air filter dosent really matter on a turbo engine running small amounts of boost so long as it isnt a little blocked up effort!!!
for more power you just turn up the fuelling on the injector pump and wind in your actuator rod, more boost +fuel=bhp
the intercooler will help as the denser (cooler) the air charge the more power
a diesel engine dosent run a great deal of boost because of the lower compression engine .
i havent messed with my one yet ,,maybe when it gets a bit warmer!!!!!!!!!!
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Does anyone know if the standard intercooler from a late Td5 is any better than that on the 300Tdi? Just that one of works' rovers just got the full chip and intercooler upgrade (over 200BHP now :shock:) and the original is now going spare :twisted:
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I'd interested in finding out about that too, and is it an easy fit?
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Got a chance to compare the 2 today and the Td5's is a good 50% larger but is also mounted differently so reckon the plumbing may be an issue and I'm not sure about clearance on the rad either. :roll:
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I the so called air ram effect of a snorkel has any relevance in the real world then why did landrover have the G4 rangie's fitted with fixed rear facing snorkel necks?
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YES
with the right mods on a 300tdi 160+bhp is achievable for not a lot of wedge
i currently run a FMIC, full exhaust Tweaked pump & boost & make approx 150bhp out of a 200tdi
and not forgetting the 250 lbs ft!!
Here you go...jobs a good un!!
http://www.jeremyjfearn.co.uk/intercooler.htm
Cheers
ANdy
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Yes Td5 intercooler will make a difference, a friends 200tdi has one and it was quite impressive.
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Yes Td5 intercooler will make a difference, a friends 200tdi has one and it was quite impressive.
Excellent in that case I may have to have a look around for some silicon hose companies with preformed hoses to try and work out how to plumb it in. Do you now how your friend had it mounted? Was there room in front of the rad as it was or did he have to do some mods?
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I the so called air ram effect of a snorkel has any relevance in the real world then why did landrover have the G4 rangie's fitted with fixed rear facing snorkel necks?
Surely the main performance benefit, if any, of a snorkel is the cooler air intake? Nothing to do with so called 'ram-effect'. The simple fact is that cool air is more compact that warm air, so you can get more of it into the cylinders whether there is a turbo there or not. And the more air your engine consumes, the more power it is capable of generating with appropriate fuelling.
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A snorkel will have little to no effect on ram air due to the tight angles the air has to flow around. Purpose of the snorkel is to raise the intake as high as possible! The best snorkle, one with the less angle for air to get around, is the SOUTHDOWN (http://www.southdown4x4.co.uk/Clearance.htm) one. It fits through the top of the wing, so does away with the crappy plastic wing fitting.
The standard Td5 Intercooler has very similar internal dimensions as a standard Tdi intercooler so no benefit in fitting it...buy a decent uprated intercooler, silicone hoses & plumb it in with as much solid pipe as possible.
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A snorkel will have little to no effect on ram air due to the tight angles the air has to flow around. Purpose of the snorkel is to raise the intake as high as possible! The best snorkle, one with the less angle for air to get around, is the SOUTHDOWN (http://www.southdown4x4.co.uk/Clearance.htm) one. It fits through the top of the wing, so does away with the crappy plastic wing fitting.
The standard Td5 Intercooler has very similar internal dimensions as a standard Tdi intercooler so no benefit in fitting it...buy a decent uprated intercooler, silicone hoses & plumb it in with as much solid pipe as possible.
however the intercooler has a much bigger surface area and is much thinner, so its more efficient at its job ...actually....Jamie :-$ :lol: :lol: hows goin ?
yer big intercoolers make a big difference...on road....but offroad you need make sure something is drawing as much air as possable through it or else its pointless :roll:
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A snorkel will have little to no effect on ram air due to the tight angles the air has to flow around. Purpose of the snorkel is to raise the intake as high as possible! The best snorkle, one with the less angle for air to get around, is the SOUTHDOWN (http://www.southdown4x4.co.uk/Clearance.htm) one. It fits through the top of the wing, so does away with the crappy plastic wing fitting.
The standard Td5 Intercooler has very similar internal dimensions as a standard Tdi intercooler so no benefit in fitting it...buy a decent uprated intercooler, silicone hoses & plumb it in with as much solid pipe as possible.
however the intercooler has a much bigger surface area and is much thinner, so its more efficient at its job ...actually....Jamie :-$ :lol: :lol: hows goin ?
yer big intercoolers make a big difference...on road....but offroad you need make sure something is drawing as much air as possable through it or else its pointless :roll:
Oh Danny boy....you are as usual correct it is more efficient at doing it's job, however...
Fitting a std Td5 intercooler to a Tdi, after you have piped it in around the engine will make [!Expletive Deleted!] all difference....if it did you would have fitted one :twisted:
I'm good...you?
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I the so called air ram effect of a snorkel has any relevance in the real world then why did landrover have the G4 rangie's fitted with fixed rear facing snorkel necks?
mayby its fixed backwards so when offroad the dust sand or whatever from the motor in front dont get kicked up and go straight in to the snorkel
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snorkels make no odds to the performance
tried mine with & without on dyno & lost 1 Bhp with the snorkel fitted
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WARNING SICENCE CONTENT
I used to build turbo drag bikes, the thing with turbos is the heat passed from the exhaust gasses spinning the turbo as it acts like a heat exchanger. For every 1 deg you can cool the air after the turbo you gain 1 bhp.
We used Range Rover intercoolers in the beginning and used to get the temp down by 80 deg which would show up on the dyno as a bhp increase of between 75 nad 79 as the dyno was indoors and we could not get enough cool air over it.
That's why we used to put huge intercoolers on the power increase was huge compaired to added weight they were even playing with a water cooled intercooler before funding got with drawn.
:dance:
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A snorkel will have little to no effect on ram air due to the tight angles the air has to flow around. Purpose of the snorkel is to raise the intake as high as possible! The best snorkle, one with the less angle for air to get around, is the SOUTHDOWN (http://www.southdown4x4.co.uk/Clearance.htm) one. It fits through the top of the wing, so does away with the crappy plastic wing fitting.
The standard Td5 Intercooler has very similar internal dimensions as a standard Tdi intercooler so no benefit in fitting it...buy a decent uprated intercooler, silicone hoses & plumb it in with as much solid pipe as possible.
however the intercooler has a much bigger surface area and is much thinner, so its more efficient at its job ...actually....Jamie :-$ :lol: :lol: hows goin ?
yer big intercoolers make a big difference...on road....but offroad you need make sure something is drawing as much air as possable through it or else its pointless :roll:
Oh Danny boy....you are as usual correct it is more efficient at doing it's job, however...
Fitting a std Td5 intercooler to a Tdi, after you have piped it in around the engine will make [!Expletive Deleted!] all difference....if it did you would have fitted one :twisted:
I'm good...you?
thay aint big nuff for me :lol:
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A snorkel will have little to no effect on ram air due to the tight angles the air has to flow around. Purpose of the snorkel is to raise the intake as high as possible! The best snorkle, one with the less angle for air to get around, is the SOUTHDOWN (http://www.southdown4x4.co.uk/Clearance.htm) one. It fits through the top of the wing, so does away with the crappy plastic wing fitting.
The standard Td5 Intercooler has very similar internal dimensions as a standard Tdi intercooler so no benefit in fitting it...buy a decent uprated intercooler, silicone hoses & plumb it in with as much solid pipe as possible.
My point exactly
however the intercooler has a much bigger surface area and is much thinner, so its more efficient at its job ...actually....Jamie :-$ :lol: :lol: hows goin ?
yer big intercoolers make a big difference...on road....but offroad you need make sure something is drawing as much air as possable through it or else its pointless :roll:
Oh Danny boy....you are as usual correct it is more efficient at doing it's job, however...
Fitting a std Td5 intercooler to a Tdi, after you have piped it in around the engine will make [!Expletive Deleted!] all difference....if it did you would have fitted one :twisted:
I'm good...you?
thay aint big nuff for me :lol:
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A friend has one on his 300Tdi 110 CSW. Also a ported and polished head, tweeked pump and I'm sure its chipped too :-k It's also running with Ashcroft Disco transfer gears, very quick motor indeed.
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A friend has one on his 300Tdi 110 CSW. Also a ported and polished head, tweeked pump and I'm sure its chipped too :-k It's also running with Ashcroft Disco transfer gears, very quick motor indeed.
a chipped 300tdi....
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A friend has one on his 300Tdi 110 CSW. Also a ported and polished head, tweeked pump and I'm sure its chipped too :-k It's also running with Ashcroft Disco transfer gears, very quick motor indeed.
a chipped 300tdi....
Hence the scratchy head smilie thing, I didn't know for certain and have no experience with 300Tdi's. Upon checking it out with him and being called a doughnut, I know it isn't the case or possible (my bad) the actual tuning is as the remaining listed, the head is a Turner?
What do I know, I'm a Td5 owner and I know those can deffo be chipped. :lol:
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Ram air is bunk. The pressure differential created by a forward facing air intake at roof height is less than 1/10th the air pressure drop created by sucking air through all that extra pipework. That's with the straightest possible pipework too, not the Safari style on thew Disco.